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[plufim]

This is based on what?

Every Kickstarter.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Backers money is now their money, and they can do whatever they want with it and are (to the best of my knowledge) under zero legal obligation to deliver what they promised. To the best of my knowledge there is no instances of backers attempting to take legal action against someone for failing to deliver on a Kickstarter.

None of this is correct (creators are under a legal obligation and there have been legal actions), but the better thing to think about is this--if a KS fails, it's not because they stashed the money in a bank account, it's because they spent it. If they have no money, how will you collect judgment when you win? If a homeless person throws a rock at your car, you can sue him for damages, but good luck garnishing his wages. Well, in KS land, mostly people form companies to receive the money, and those companies are normally limited liability rather than sole proprietorship, so there's not an avenue to get the money back when it's gone.

The other question is to what extent you'd feel comfortable paying legal fees and tying up years of your life in court proceedings in order to recover your $25 or whatever. Most people wouldn't.

 

[Crocodile]

They are somewhat obligated to deliver the versions they promised in the Kickstarter, and likely contractually obligated to do so by their publisher.

You are underestimated the technical difficulty of shipping a game on so many different platforms of varying capability.

If it was only originally promised for PC and perhaps PS4/Xbox One, it would be far more likely to be out by now.

Of course, the technical difficulty of the task at hand does not excuse the poor/intentionally misleading communication.

Edit: Did anyone try 20XX yet? Looks neat to me.

This could have all been avoided if they staggered platform and feature releases like many, many kickstarter projects have done in the past. I can only assume the relationship with Deep Silver and the physical editions make this a bit trickier (and I feel they may have said as much) but I'm still not sure the good will hit is/will be worth it for the massive delay (plus games have done physical releases and staggered features in the past too). I'm just hoping that if the game is good, people can put their, understandable (though people calling for the games cancellation are saying dumb things) salt behind them.

 

[Zaru]

Can't wait for all the dirt to come to light about how development must have been like.

 

[Dice]

I backed it $60 when the Kickstarter launched. Now they fucked things up so bad, made so many terrible excuses until they couldn't possibly keep it up anymore and changed the narrative to "it is inexcusable please forgive us" and things are still so unknown, and now they have ReCore and Red Ash as well. Never trusting them for Kickstarter again. If this is how he managed shit under Capcom, so much history makes more sense.

 

[sd28821]

This game should forever be the perfect example of how badly feature creep can derail an otherwise on track crowdfunded game. When I saw the campaign finish with all the stretch goals met, I knew there was no way they'd be able to get all that done in the short timeframe they gave themselves at the start. If for some reason Comcept/Inafune decides they haven't burned bridges enough to try this again, I hope they'll cut back on all the ambitious stretch goals, or at least have the foresight to not promise them all on launch day. Shovel Knight arguably had a little feature creep with hitting all the stretch goals, but not promising all those things on day one meant that the game came out in a timely manner and its quality wasn't compromised either. Releasing ten versions of a game in-house is something a large AAA studio would have trouble with, let alone a small indie studio like Inti Creates. I really don't think Inti Creates is at fault here, honestly. They've proven they can make amazing games, but they've never released a game with the scope that this one has. I'm glad IGA decided to have Armature handle the external ports of Bloodstained, so this hopefully won't happen again.

this is a good point

 

[poncle]

SIlly me thought this was an old thread bumped up.

I think this is at least the third time this happens, and I still don't learn.

 

[Dice]

SIlly me thought this was an old thread bumped up.

I think this is at least the third time this happens, and I still don't learn.

If you haven't yet, I recommend playing Mega Man Unlimited and receiving it as an apology from the universe.

 

[dity]

Never trusting them for Kickstarter again. If this is how he managed shit under Capcom, so much history makes more sense.

It definitely makes Capcom look much less like the bad guy, that's for sure.

It makes me think all those Mega Man projects (except the MMO) got cancelled not because Capcom hates the blue bomber, but because Inafune kept making up new projects that weren't feasible.

 

[Cmagus]

Anyone think it's feasible they went dark because they're reworking a lot more than just the online and next time they show it they'll show a vastly different looking (better!) game?

They've most likely gone dark because at this point unless they're given an exact release date anything they say is gonna get backlash because people are fed up. It's better for them to get it done and not say anything at this point.

 

[Krabboss]

This game is never going to come out. Don't mourn for it, it was going to be bad anyway.

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

This game is never going to come out. Don't mourn for it, it was going to be bad anyway.

It wasn't that bad. I played it at E3 last year.

 

[eXistor]

I wish a could get a refund...

 

[Tatsumi Oga]

And maybe it's unnecessary, but this makes me extra worried about Recore and if it will ever see the light of day. It's Inafune's project too, right?

 

[nynt9]

Dammit, I can't believe I listed 360 twice. That wasn't intentional. Then again this is what happens when you are typing a message and barely coherent and just woke up.

Still overall I think expectations to do that much porting work across so many platforms, nevermind cross gen with different console architectures involved, just seems to be even arduous task for a small studio.

I think it's fair point for expectations to be tempered.

Bloodstained also has a very extensive stretch goal list, the exception in that case though is they only need to worry about getting a game out on PC, PS4, and XB1 on a shared architecture. So that should be a much more relatively straight forward affair. At least I would hope as such. As that is one project I actually DID back.

Unfortunately Bloodstained also had a Wii U port stretch goal which a lot of people here argued against for this exact reason yet were shouted down by people who somehow thought releasing a game for the WiiU in 2017 (or perhaps even later) would be a good idea.

 

[@MUWANdo]

And maybe it's unnecessary, but this makes me extra worried about Recore and if it will ever see the light of day. It's Inafune's project too, right?

To a degree, yeah, but it's still being paid for and produced by Microsoft.

 

[nynt9]

To a degree, yeah, but it's still being paid for and produced by Microsoft.

It already got its first delay so don't be too sure about that

http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/01/07/recore-delayed-until-later-this-year

 

[Crocodile]

Aren't the portable versions of this game being handled by a different studio? Again, none of this would be an issue if they (or their publisher) didn't insist on a simultaneous launch on all systems at the same time.

Unfortunately Bloodstained also had a Wii U port stretch goal which a lot of people here argued against for this exact reason yet were shouted down by people who somehow thought releasing a game for the WiiU in 2017 (or perhaps even later) would be a good idea.

Are we opening this can of worms up again? The Wii U (and Vita) versions aren't even being done in house but are being farmed out. Fewer versions, same generation, better engine that's better/still supported, outside dev at the start - there are a lot of differences you're not mentioning between that situation and MN9's situation.

EDIT: Though the conversation was always about the Wii U/Vita versions "holding the original versions back" rather than delaying the initial launch date.

 

[Dremark]

$10 says the WiiU and Vita versions get axed.

I'll take the bet if you're serious.

 

[otakukidd]

It already got its first delay so don't be too sure about that

http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/01/07/recore-delayed-until-later-this-year

Isn't that a armature game and not a compcept game. Kinda like those othere games he just farms out ideas and his name to.

 

[DrArchon]

And maybe it's unnecessary, but this makes me extra worried about Recore and if it will ever see the light of day. It's Inafune's project too, right?

Armature is doing the actual development work on Recore, right? Inafune was just the idea man, like with MN9. That should be in a better position. It's probably only coming out on 2 platforms (XBO and PC probably), so they should have an easier time there.

 

[Dremark]

I mean, he also called Mighty No. 9 an insult to Capcom, so I don't think Kamiya's feelings are all that ambiguous.

Pretty sure he said the same about Bayonetta.

Actually I think Imagine said something along the same lines about Genji too.

Kamiya left Capcom because of Inafune's reign of terror, so of course he doesn't like the guy very much.

Did he actually state that at some point or is this being assumed?

 

[jacobeid]

None of this is correct (creators are under a legal obligation and there have been legal actions), but the better thing to think about is this--if a KS fails, it's not because they stashed the money in a bank account, it's because they spent it. If they have no money, how will you collect judgment when you win? If a homeless person throws a rock at your car, you can sue him for damages, but good luck garnishing his wages. Well, in KS land, mostly people form companies to receive the money, and those companies are normally limited liability rather than sole proprietorship, so there's not an avenue to get the money back when it's gone.

The other question is to what extent you'd feel comfortable paying legal fees and tying up years of your life in court proceedings in order to recover your $25 or whatever. Most people wouldn't.

If only everyone had as much of a basic understanding of the US legal system as this....

 

[hawk2025]

Somewhat tangentially related -- have we seen anything whatsoever on Recore since the reveal?

 

[Chucker]

No one cares anymore aside from the backers, and they've lost 99% of the hype they had like three years ago.

I was in a drive thru while the announcement came out and backed after they took my order, I was so hyped.

Now, I just don't care. No hype, no anger, no effort.
It's a shame really.

 

[otakukidd]

Somewhat tangentially related -- have we seen anything whatsoever on Recore since the reveal?

Nothing, not even a hint a gameplay. I'm guessing its probably another phantom dust situation.

 

[nynt9]

Somewhat tangentially related -- have we seen anything whatsoever on Recore since the reveal?

Nothing other than an announcement stating its delay and that it's coming to PC as well.

 

[Bluenoser]

Popped into thread expecting it to be a necropost. Happy that it wasn't another delay announcement, but sad that I was reminded that there has been no further news as to the actual release.

This team is a mess.

 

[NecromorphTX]

Kickstarter games in a nutshell. I hope Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night don't be a mess.

 

[papo]

I know it is a BSexcuse to delay the game over a part of it I really don;t care about but this:

“These guys are crooks, stole thousands of dollars from backers who have not heard anything about their prizes that have nothing to do with online play. I have heard talk of a class action lawsuit based on this and hope it comes to fruition,”

Is a bit too much. People got their physical rewards they are just waiting on the game. It is a long time coming, but going all out like that quote is too much too soon. Who is this guy?

I hate it when some entitled guy comes and tries to dictate how other do their work and if they don't do as he thinks they should then it should be a lawsuit. Again, I'm not defending Inafune or anything surrounding these delays. It sucks, but I think that dude is being a bit too much.

 

[Yawnier]

We prob won't hear it has been delayed until the very last minute on like June 18th, aka the second last day of spring

 

[bumpkin]

I was in a drive thru while the announcement came out and backed after they took my order, I was so hyped.

Now, I just don't care. No hype, no anger, no effort.
It's a shame really.

I was over the moon with excitement when the Kickstarter came up. I backed it at a tier higher than any campaign I'd backed before.

How do I feel now? Pretty darn cheated. The tshirt, poster and plush toy don't exactly soften the blow.

I'll still play the game and probably enjoy it when it comes out, but it's unbelievable how mismanaged the whole campaign has been since funding closed.

 

[nynt9]

Kickstarter games in a nutshell. I hope Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night don't be a mess.

This is not Kickstarter games in a nutshell. There have been many games on KS that have been wild successes.

Divinity, Pillars of Eternity, Shovel Knight, all 3 Shadrowun games, Hyper Light Drifter, Elite: Dangerous, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Satellite Reign... many more.

Your post comes off as ridiculously ignorant.

 

[NecromorphTX]

This is not Kickstarter games in a nutshell. There have been many games on KS that have been wild successes.

Divinity, Pillars of Eternity, Shovel Knight, all 3 Shadrowun games, Hyper Light Drifter, Elite: Dangerous, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Satellite Reign... many more.

Your post comes off as ridiculously ignorant.

Calm your tits dude.

Yeah, there's successful campaigns, but there's a lot failed kickstarters or with problems like Mighty No. 9, reason why some people lost the trust on this kind of co-funding because is still a risk.

 

[Wanderer5]

This is not Kickstarter games in a nutshell. There have been many games on KS that have been wild successes.

Divinity, Pillars of Eternity, Shovel Knight, all 3 Shadrowun games, Hyper Light Drifter, Elite: Dangerous, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Satellite Reign... many more.

Your post comes off as ridiculously ignorant.

Truth. Where there the bad, there also been the good that came out of KS, and there quite a few examples as shown there. I have faith for Bloodstained for now, as it seems to be making good progress at the moment.

 

[Mors_Verigo]

The developers of this game are going to be very disappointed when they see how little people care about the multiplayer, the reason why this thing keeps getting delayed.

 

[Chucker]

The developers of this game are going to be very disappointed when they see how little people care about the multiplayer, the reason why this thing keeps getting delayed.

We won't know.

 

[Wanderer5]

Maybe it could have end up being a pain in the ass, but it sucks that they didn't just release the SP content and patched in the MP later. I wonder if something else happened regarding the rest of the game, cause it seems ridiculous that this game has been delayed all this time for some bugs in MP content.

 

[10k]

They can always use the naughty dog excuse and say they need more time for "manufacturing and shipping" when they delay it next time.

 

[TreIII]

Did he actually state that at some point or is this being assumed?

Not necessarily Kamiya himself, but there has been loose talk that Inaba and Inafune had butted heads when the former was the head of Clover and the latter was the head of Capcom's R&D.

But considering Clover was just one example of a Capcom force that later departed the company in the last twenty years, I'm not sure if Inafune can be entirely blamed for the fallout relating to Clover's dissolving or not.

 

[HardRojo]

They can always use the naughty dog excuse and say they need more time for "manufacturing and shipping" when they delay it next time.

Their game would have to go gold soon after the delay announcement for them to use the ND excuse though

 

[Ceallach]

I'm really pissed at this. I was super excited and for all of this to end up like this is disgusting. They have killed all the momentum they had created.

I'm a huge MM fangirl, I even kickstarted the fucking board game(and failed to play it with my daughter, lol) and all of my interest is gone.

 

[10k]

Their game would have to go gold soon after the delay announcement for them to use the ND excuse though

True.

 

[dity]

This is not Kickstarter games in a nutshell. There have been many games on KS that have been wild successes.

Divinity, Pillars of Eternity, Shovel Knight, all 3 Shadrowun games, Hyper Light Drifter, Elite: Dangerous, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Satellite Reign... many more.

Your post comes off as ridiculously ignorant.

The only thing I've backed on KS/IGG/Fig that has had a result is the original Pebble.

 

[Berordn]

Truth. Where there the bad, there also been the good that came out of KS, and there quite a few examples as shown there. I have faith for Bloodstained for now, as it seems to be making good progress at the moment.

The difference is very apparent with Bloodstained, even though they're cut from the same basic cloth.

1) Classic Japanese gaming auteurs
2) Spiritual successors to franchises seemingly deemed dead by their previous publishers
3) Massively expanded scope via stretch goals
4) Same Japanese workhorse developer (Inti Creates)

But the moment the Kickstarter ends, the differences become immediately apparent. Bloodstained gives backer updates every couple weeks, inviting the community to participate in feedback and generally seems very frank about the state of the project. MN9 however went into virtual media silence, only involving backers in what seemed to be an extended media campaign, being very silent about its publisher dealings and instead showing off the project as though it were a more traditionally funded product.

Where IGA seemed to want to make a game with the Kickstarter project, MN9 seemed like an attempt to springboard into a franchise, since the most notable of the updates we received were related to the multimedia that wasn't part of the Kickstarter's scope at all and the game itself seemed to take a backseat as the backers turned into a general audience.

Bloodstained still has to prove itself and could potentially be going to the same place as MN9 did, but at this point it seems like their post-funding handling is completely different.

 

[nynt9]

The difference is very apparent with Bloodstained, even though they're cut from the same basic cloth.

1) Classic Japanese gaming auteurs
2) Spiritual successors to franchises seemingly deemed dead by their previous publishers
3) Massively expanded scope via stretch goals
4) Same Japanese workhorse developer (Inti Creates)
the moment the Kickstarter ends, the differences become immediately apparent. Bloodstained gives backer updates every couple weeks, inviting the community to participate in feedback and generally seems very frank about the state of the project. MN9 however went into virtual media silence, only involving backers in what seemed to be an extended media campaign, being very silent about its publisher dealings and instead showing off the project as though it were a more traditionally funded product.

Where IGA seemed to want to make a game with the Kickstarter project, MN9 seemed like an attempt to springboard into a franchise, since the most notable of the updates we received were related to the multimedia that wasn't part of the Kickstarter's scope at all and the game itself seemed to take a backseat as the backers turned into a general audience.

Bloodstained still has to prove itself and could potentially be going to the same place as MN9 did, but at this point it seems like their post-funding handling is completely different.

Also IGA has been personally involved with all of the development updates and has answered many fan questions. Inafune was nowhere to be seen except for that one demo where his subordinates were showing the game (for what appeared to be the first time) and he was like "oh this is neat"

 

[LewieP]

Does Bloodstained have a publisher attached?

 

[Berordn]

Does Bloodstained have a publisher attached?

Deep Silver, the same publisher as MN9.

 

[Storm Chamber]

I almost backed this, but thank goodness common sense kicked in.

I'm just not gonna fund any project until it actually gets released proper. If that makes me a bad guy, fuck it then.

 

[LycanXIII]

Deep Silver probably dropped them.