Jibran#one
Member
Absolutely no
I prefer to reach that rendering quality first and then add rtx.
Rtx on shitty texture looks far worse than good textures with state of the art fake lights.
It's a matter of priority.Yeah, I'm always left feeling that RT (or 4k, for that matter) advocates just don't get the reality of trade offs.
It's not enough to say that RT looks better than non RT, or that 4k looks sharper than 1440p. That should be a given.
The point is, at what cost?
By FAR the best next gen graphics we've seen so far are the Unreal 5 demo's. Not native 4k, and no RT. Although, admittedly, running at 30fps.
Ok, it was a demo, on amazing new tech, and probably unachievable on a full scale game, but it still looked a generation better than even Cyberpunk maxed out. That's not irrelevant.
1440p at 60 looks like the correct formula for this gen. Seems like we can have that plus a big leap in overall fidelity if Ratchet & Clank is any evidence.
The difference between that and PS4 Ratchet is imo WAAAY bigger than something like Control with and without RT.
Bullshit.The lighting is also static and baked.
Raytracing isn't a single on/off switch thing like most marketing materials tend to show, so I don't think this is a yes/no answer.
I've seen some effects that look really great and make a big difference in immersion (like e.g. window reflections in Spiderman), while others just feel like they're a bit worthless and are needlessly driving down performance (which is a lot in modern hardware)..
Take for example this screenshot I took from DF's video about RT in Cyberpunk. If you're playing the game, exactly how many people are going to care about or even notice that metal molding showing perfect reflections instead of a cubemap?
Especially when the immersion is already off due to the NPCs looking so bland and their gait movement being completely inorganic and erratic.
How many rendering milliseconds are these ray traced reflections taking in a (IMHO) rather irrelevant place, when compared to cubemaps and/or screen space reflections?
I think real-time raytracing is great and it's definitely a big part of The Future™, but with current hardware there needs to be a much better study of the ROI in compute resources than we're seeing in e.g. Cyberpunk with all RT sliders set to max.
Given the current "common denominator" hardware (which has been established by the 9th gens, so ~10-12TFLOPs with RDNA2 RT acceleration), I think the good developers who really want to make great looking games will need to think hard about where ray tracing makes sense and where it doesn't, how much perceived eye candy can it get over the more "traditional" rasterization methods which take significantly less GPU and CPU time.
- Do we really need ray traced reflections on all puddles in the floor? Perhaps screen space reflections are good enough.
- Do we really need ray traced Global Illumination everywhere, considering the gorgeous UE5 is using voxel-based Global Illumination with stunning results, as well as Demon's Souls non-RT GI?
- Ray Traced Ambient Occlusion does look better than SSAO, but does it make sense to use it everywhere?
Lastly, when I look at the most gorgeous real-time rendering I've ever seen - the Unreal Engine 5 Demo - it seems to me that the revolution on the short-mid term will be centered on very high polygon counts allowed by very fast I/O data streams and granular control of geometry LODs to avoid getting sub-pixel triangles.
And to a lesser scale, the fact that Demon's Souls is subjectively the best looking console game around despite the team not getting enough resources to implement RT is also a bit telling.
More accurate reflections. (I'm being generous)perfect reflections
thats precisely the point. You dont need reflections in most places. Where would you find reflections in a game set in a forest? RDR2, Horizon, every AC game this gen, Borderlands, CoD. Hell, the very first ray traced game ever was BFV and its ray tracing was limited to one level and one building in that level. You got some reflections in windows, and on the floor of that one hotel. I played every other map and saw no ray tracing. it made no sense to get half the performance for virtually no results in those maps.I don't see any reflections in those images.
Pixar have been using Raytracing since like 2006.
To put things into perspective and to further shoot this shit down.
Pixar have made more movies using Raytracing than they have without.
And its not even close.
About 6 movies preRaytracing and 16 post Raytracing.
As for the Rebirth scene looking great.
Sure.
But it looks even better with Raytracing.
As more games get dynamic TODs Raytracing becomes alot more valuable.
Hell i think every game needs RT GI because its such a game changing feature, every object in the scene is suddenly grounded in the world.
their graphic design is similar to valve or uncharted devs. visual clarity over post processing, baked/static over dynamic. I tend to prefer the former over the latter because the image is sharper and games that use some types of dynamic lighting/shadows/etc (not even just rt, see red dead 2 for example) tend to have a very noisy image. I think metro exodus does look Impressive but there is a sacrifice being made to get it. I can see how texture detail is reduced on ground when turning rt on and off in some scenes in metro despite it significantly improving the image overallDemon’s souls doesn’t have RT and looks better than almost every other game on any platform in native 4K.
Insomniac managed to deliver a 60fps mode with ray-tracing so I'm guessing it will be possible for others down the line as well.
Reflections are relatively easy to implement, but RT GI is where it really hits. The stuff seen Metro Exodus is transformative.
So yes, it can visually be totally worth it. It just takes more effort than reflections.
Sure, if your game doesn't have any wet or polished surfaces, doesn't have metal objects, and doesn't feature windows or any form of glass.thats precisely the point. You dont need reflections in most places. Where would you find reflections in a game set in a forest? RDR2, Horizon, every AC game this gen, Borderlands, CoD. Hell, the very first ray traced game ever was BFV and its ray tracing was limited to one level and one building in that level. You got some reflections in windows, and on the floor of that one hotel. I played every other map and saw no ray tracing. it made no sense to get half the performance for virtually no results in those maps.
isn't demon souls an example of that ?I'm not sure what you mean with effort but according to Cerny, RT Global Illumination is cheaper to do on the PS5's RDNA2 than reflections or shadows:
Ray tracing is the plague of this generation. Current hardware can't handle it properly and to its fullest. But Nvidias marketing will make it as something indispensableIt's not even worth it on PC IMHO.
Its highly subjective ofcourse. But given that we see RT Reflections far more often than GI, i say the truth is in the middle.I'm not sure what you mean with effort but according to Cerny, RT Global Illumination is cheaper to do on the PS5's RDNA2 than reflections or shadows: