The best FF this gen was the GBA version of Tactics, and it wasn't that good. This has not been a good gen for FF. However, the day that a chat client with a pretty GUI gets to be called "best" of anything game related is the day they pry my controller from my cold, dead hand. Stop playing mmorpgs, people. Fvck's sakes.
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Isnt it ironic that the best FF this gen was its online spinoff?
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
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Forgotten Ancient
Banned
They all pretty much let me down this past generation. So much so that I really don't care about XIII anymore - though I'm sure I'll play that, too.
On the other hand, FF IV, V, and VI on GBA prevented me from hating the series. I just wish Square-Enix would focus their innovative ideas on more games other than FF. FFXII could've easily been called something else, and thus not set myself up for the expectations caused by previous installments.
I miss ATB in Final Fantasy games.
I can't do the online RPG grind anymore, either. And if I could, I'd much prefer WoW or Eve to FFXI.
On the other hand, FF IV, V, and VI on GBA prevented me from hating the series. I just wish Square-Enix would focus their innovative ideas on more games other than FF. FFXII could've easily been called something else, and thus not set myself up for the expectations caused by previous installments.
I miss ATB in Final Fantasy games.
I can't do the online RPG grind anymore, either. And if I could, I'd much prefer WoW or Eve to FFXI.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Guivre had quite a taste for my flesh. Nothing but comedy for XP parties when a soloing Dragoon is in the area somewhere.
Avalon, Square invited the comparisons by naming the game "Final Fantasy XI" instead of just "Final Fantasy Online".
Also; Triumph, does that make non-online games pretty GUIs without a chat client?
In the end, this has become (and started as) another thread about "My opinion on the best FF > yours" and as such, is descending into cluster****sville.
Avalon, Square invited the comparisons by naming the game "Final Fantasy XI" instead of just "Final Fantasy Online".
Also; Triumph, does that make non-online games pretty GUIs without a chat client?
In the end, this has become (and started as) another thread about "My opinion on the best FF > yours" and as such, is descending into cluster****sville.
Obviously not. The real end reason that people play mmorpgs is to simulate the social life they don't have. I'll never be convinced otherwise. There's no real "gameplay" there; conversely there are plenty of games that will test your reflexes and wit. Hell, some of them even feature online play. Mmorpgs are a disease.Segata Sanshiro said:
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
I haven't played any of the PS2 FFs (or any PS2 game), but let me say that the PS1 generation was no damn good, and I'm pretty sure the PS2 games are better if only by virtue of not having 12-second battle load times.
nintendorly
Banned
leehom said:
Elitist, much?
TheJollyCorner
Member
I think 'ironic' is wrong word there, Alanis. 
BudokaiMR2
Member
leehom said:
Honestly, I usually just try and ignore these kinds of comments but this one just crossed the line.
Nothing about FF11 takes brains. Nothing in any MMO takes brains. I could train a monkey to press hotkeys alright? Hell the only thing in any MMO that I would consider taking brains would be large PvP battles. Something that FFXI lacks.
RevenantKioku
PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
X and X-2 were online?
Oh, and come on, lets grow up people.
MMOs are more than safe houses for the socially inept and require quite more than "DURH HOTKEY PRESS". Although I won't deny there are people who play the games with and or for these matters.
Oh, and come on, lets grow up people.
MMOs are more than safe houses for the socially inept and require quite more than "DURH HOTKEY PRESS". Although I won't deny there are people who play the games with and or for these matters.
BudokaiMR2 said:
I agree that the person who made the original comment is an idiot, but have you played FFXI at all? The game is far more involving then any other online RPG on the market and there is no way you can get through the game by simply pressing hotkeys. The game involves a lot of skill.
EDIT: Also, FFXI had a PvP system which is really something special. It's like... RPG team fortress with so much damn variety, great stuff.
FFXI's job system is amazing, I love being able to switch between jobs, and change out subjobs to help with what I'm doing. The fact that it spans 3 different systems, across 3-5 different regions/languages (not sure if German/French included yet) with a pretty decent auto-translate feature, that with some practice, has you shooting the shit with people I couldn't hold even the slightest conversation with face to face, is a pretty big accomplishment.
The game has some very broken components (NM/HNM claim system), a lot of cheating and gil farmers and some broken gameplay, but SE has made some major changes to the game as of late, with special task forces designed to eliminate cheaters and bring stability to the economy. The newest expansion to the game also added some fun content, like Assault missions.
I play a lot of FFXI, have done so for the last year or so (started on 360 beta server) and have a 67 NIN, 62 THF and 37 WAR.
The game has some very broken components (NM/HNM claim system), a lot of cheating and gil farmers and some broken gameplay, but SE has made some major changes to the game as of late, with special task forces designed to eliminate cheaters and bring stability to the economy. The newest expansion to the game also added some fun content, like Assault missions.
I play a lot of FFXI, have done so for the last year or so (started on 360 beta server) and have a 67 NIN, 62 THF and 37 WAR.
Shouta
Member
Hrm, hate to ressurrect an old thread but I had to comment. I don't know how I missed it the first time. :lol
Buggy's relatively outdated with FFXI trends but he's right, of the 4 original Final Fantasy games of the PS2 generation, FFXI is by far the best. Its gameplay, story (which don't really exist in MMOs except for FFXI), lore, and etc turned out far better than the other three games. Once you get into it, you realize just how much depth there is to the game. The job system, the overall flow of combat, the structure of spells and skills, the battles and their setups, and a bunch of other things fit so well together and makes the entire game incredibly satisfying.
Of course, the greatest problem is that it's an MMO. It suffers the same pitfalls that all other MMOs do. The community can be awful and that in turn makes grinding painful (although grinding in FFXI can be FAR faster than most MMOs) and the economy a possible hell hole. There are some updates and systems that could used a lot more thought put into it and the game's storyline battles are brutal making it for the really masochistic.
If you can get past it though, the game is just so incredible. I finally finished the Chains of Promathia expansion tonight with some friends and a few GAFfers. It's been our project for the last two months or so and it was a helluva ride with some of the toughest battles I've ever encountered from a MMO or otherwise. The sense of accomplishment and relief most of us got from doing these battles and defeating them is just incredible. Some of these battles were absolutely epic, something I haven't felt from a game in ages. There's just something about you and a group of friends taking down a god that gets your blood going.
Buggy's relatively outdated with FFXI trends but he's right, of the 4 original Final Fantasy games of the PS2 generation, FFXI is by far the best. Its gameplay, story (which don't really exist in MMOs except for FFXI), lore, and etc turned out far better than the other three games. Once you get into it, you realize just how much depth there is to the game. The job system, the overall flow of combat, the structure of spells and skills, the battles and their setups, and a bunch of other things fit so well together and makes the entire game incredibly satisfying.
Of course, the greatest problem is that it's an MMO. It suffers the same pitfalls that all other MMOs do. The community can be awful and that in turn makes grinding painful (although grinding in FFXI can be FAR faster than most MMOs) and the economy a possible hell hole. There are some updates and systems that could used a lot more thought put into it and the game's storyline battles are brutal making it for the really masochistic.
If you can get past it though, the game is just so incredible. I finally finished the Chains of Promathia expansion tonight with some friends and a few GAFfers. It's been our project for the last two months or so and it was a helluva ride with some of the toughest battles I've ever encountered from a MMO or otherwise. The sense of accomplishment and relief most of us got from doing these battles and defeating them is just incredible. Some of these battles were absolutely epic, something I haven't felt from a game in ages. There's just something about you and a group of friends taking down a god that gets your blood going.
Actually you're wrong. There's a lot of battles in FFXI that take brains and clear thought. These battles can be beaten by monkeys as long as they have instructions from the people with brains, but without communities that discuss tactics and stat formulae, a lot of FFXI would only be beaten by a select few.BudokaiMR2 said:
Shouta
Member
Jonnyram said:
The grind is a lot better nowadays Jonny. The TOAU areas are an XP goldmine and a good static will be ripping through levels faster than you can shake a fist. Kintaro (GAF name) has been taking SAM up to 75 and in the last like two-three weeks has taken it from 30ish to 67-68. :lol Even I've gotten a level a week and I don't XP nearly as much as most people nowadays.
There's a lot of areas in which FF design fails.
Where WoW succeeds is the iterative nature; for better or worse, the game continually improves. It's such a much smoother game now than it was before.
FFXI... well that doesn't improve much at all. New stuff gets added sure, but old stuff hardly ever gets fixed in any significant way.
Where WoW succeeds is the iterative nature; for better or worse, the game continually improves. It's such a much smoother game now than it was before.
FFXI... well that doesn't improve much at all. New stuff gets added sure, but old stuff hardly ever gets fixed in any significant way.
Shouta
Member
Zaptruder said:
Not touching the WoW argument, that's a whole other can of worms.
FFXI improves all the time for the most part, both in the actual game and the variety of tactics in the playerbase. Granted, there's some stuff they really should fix like the awful NM and HNM system but that'll never actually happen.
You stopped playing like 2 years ago didn't you? =P
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Buggy Loop said:
I hit 50 before I absolutely could not overlook FFXI`s glaring and ridiculous flaws. The game is shit, you`re wrong, end of story.
The only reason I kept playing was because my friends said they needed me in parties. :S
My biggest problem with the game was the rigid party requirements, and the fact that "unneeded" classes usually had to wait hours for a party. Not to mention the fact that if you didn`t have the best gear, players just didn`t want to play with you.
Granted, I haven`t played in like, 2 years.
The last expansion really made things for casuals a whole lot more fun. There are new assault areas where a minimum of 3 can enter. These are instanced burning circle type missions where the reward are sellable items (potion and ethers) and assault points, which can be traded for sellable item (it's a means of making money) or for exclusive armor that can't be sold but have fairly good stats for the player. There's a set for mages, melees and shields.
The game is grind, there's no two ways about it, but can be rewarding if you already have an established network of friends and can reasonably achieve your goals with that group.
I participate in Limbus, Salvage, Dynamis and have withdrawn from HNM camping mostly because the scheduling required (no life) is punishing.
It's not a game for everyone, but it has a fairly stable community if you know where to look and make your friends. Some jobs just won't get as many invites as others, but I played a fairly popular job and still preferred working up my levels with an on-line friend in a set group and in fact did so, that's how I got my first job to 75. There's no reason for people who play an unpopular job like Dragoon or Dark Knight to not have a set group of their own. You don't need a group of 5 friends. Usually 1 or 2 others is enough to form the core of the party and you invite the rest.
The game is grind, there's no two ways about it, but can be rewarding if you already have an established network of friends and can reasonably achieve your goals with that group.
I participate in Limbus, Salvage, Dynamis and have withdrawn from HNM camping mostly because the scheduling required (no life) is punishing.
It's not a game for everyone, but it has a fairly stable community if you know where to look and make your friends. Some jobs just won't get as many invites as others, but I played a fairly popular job and still preferred working up my levels with an on-line friend in a set group and in fact did so, that's how I got my first job to 75. There's no reason for people who play an unpopular job like Dragoon or Dark Knight to not have a set group of their own. You don't need a group of 5 friends. Usually 1 or 2 others is enough to form the core of the party and you invite the rest.
Shouta
Member
TheTrin said:
Rigid party structure usually tends to be a community issue in all MMOs. FFXI's pretty good with party setups when you're playing with people you know but the average player's skill makes it waaaaaay too difficult to do it in a pick-up which makes up most of the experiences people will have.
The biggest problem with FFXI's party structure is that the community views the jobs a certain way and generally ignore the possible potential of the job. The DDs, for example, all offer something different to the party that could mean boosting the efficiency of the group but those advantages aren't used.
Shouta said:
This isn't that big of a problem anymore. But there's just more DD jobs on paper which means people view a lot of them as interchangeable.
The Aht Urghan zones have very specific mob classes that encourage varying set-up instead of conformity. Prior to this expansion, most parties simply progress from one class of animal types to the next, with very little variety in weaknesses. Fight Crabs at level 15, fight crabs again at level 50. There's no essential differences between Goblins at level 50 and Golems at lvl 75, except perhaps one has a different elemental weakness and drop different loot. Theoretically, the same level 50 group that killed the goblin should perform just as well at 75. Even the magic strong Weapons can be killed with ease by an overleveld standard party. Speedkill parties clearing out Ru Avitau was all the rage before this last expansion.
The new zones feature avians, and pudding classes in high level areas and in mass quantities, which often give some previously neglected jobs more desirability. It's not perfect, but S-E made a mistake in their original design when the planned the experience zones, it was all essentially the same and it encouraged 1 optimal party setup with some slight variations. The newer zones, allow for more flexibility, but they need to keep adding more zones like these with monster types are are killable by wildly differing setups to finish fixing the game.
For example I'd like them to add a bard unfriendly zone, perhaps a monster that does a song debuff as its TP move. That would be nice for a change wouldn't it.
Shouta
Member
Deku said:
It's still a problem, perhaps less so now but still an issue.
There are more DDs but DDs do fill 3 slots in a party in most setups and can slot another in depending on situation so it's not like it's too bad for them.
I'd love to see that actually. A mob that's unfriendly to some of the more desired jobs but friendly to others. For example, a mob that's highly unfriendly to TPBurns by doing something powerful or dastardly every time it changes hate targets but would be great for standard setups with a primary tank or something.
I liked FFXI, I didn't play long at all but I did like what i played. If leveling really early on was abit faster i may have stuck with it longer. I think I quit at THF14 the first time. Last summer I played a warrior for a few levels just for fun.
Combat was interesting and you could actually die in fights. I never did figure out if movement really did anything though.
Each class having many weapon choices even at the low levels was cool too.
Combat was interesting and you could actually die in fights. I never did figure out if movement really did anything though.
Each class having many weapon choices even at the low levels was cool too.
That's true.Shouta said:
I think they tried that with Ninja shield with the Marids, but what end up happening was people just avoided killing them. The biases are that strong and ninjas found their groove in speedkill parties in the same zones killing a different monster.
What they should do is create a monster that respawns quickly, is easilly killable by a specific set of damage type, but is specifically unfriendly to some other known popular jobs. That way the experience points will be too good to pass up, but when people try to kill them, they will need to fill them with certain jobs and not with others. But I'm sure what S-E will say is that they fear the unintended consequences, and well, they may have a point there. As I just pointed out, some monsters will go unkilled if the popular jobs can't handle them properly.
Shouta
Member
Deku said:
If they hadn't nerfed the Marids so badly near the release of the game, it'd probably be my favorite XP critter. =/
You'd have to be really inventive though because there are only 3 types of physical damage in the game.
Too true. :lol
Aren't there a bunch of crabs on Zhayolm?
ZombieSupaStar
Member
I didnt like ffxi at all which was weird, it just didnt seem to click for me, I got it back when alex was hyping everyone ot it before its release
I remember making a char over and over and over untill I finally got on the fairy server, and killing some onions over and over, but I just hated the world and the graphics....
I guess im just A.D.D. in my old age now but out of eq,eq2,ao,swg,neocron,eve,a small taste of FFXI, and wow, I just stick with WoW more.
I guess if it doesnt grab me in like the first few days of playing I no longer want to bother (either that or max payne 2 distracted me at the time)
I remember making a char over and over and over untill I finally got on the fairy server, and killing some onions over and over, but I just hated the world and the graphics....
I guess im just A.D.D. in my old age now but out of eq,eq2,ao,swg,neocron,eve,a small taste of FFXI, and wow, I just stick with WoW more.
I guess if it doesnt grab me in like the first few days of playing I no longer want to bother (either that or max payne 2 distracted me at the time)
All they had to do is let the chiggoes give exp and add to chain. just imagine the experience parties.Shouta said:
Perhaps even turn the whole point of fishing for monsters on its head but encourage parties to keep 1 monster alive and milk it for all the critters living on it. lol. S-E though won't listen most likely.That's true, but I was more referring to the particular strengths of each damage jobs.
They are the same as the rest of the crabs. I was expecting a new classification, like the fire breathing crawlers were somewhat of a new addition.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
It's game design. The community didn't design the class roles and niches, the XP rates and its min-max nature, and so forth. There is very, very little you can actually blame on the community or player; most every aspect of a game can be controlled or managed by game design. Otherwise it's just poor or lazy design.Error2k4 said:
To put it in perspective, imagine a developer using such an excuse. He'd be strung to the gallows.
KyanMehwulfe said:
Yeah it was design pretty much. The core mechanic of the original game was a bunch of monsters with differing elemental weaknesses, differing abilities and differing weaknesses to damage types (piercing, slashing, blunt).
Good on paper, but S-E forgot to add enough variety of monsters to make it work. So players get funneled down what is essentially palette/model swapped monsters that have different attacks but essentially can be killed by a single party set-up with very few exceptions.
They could have solved a ton of issues if they added more variety to experience zones. For example avians and ghosts have been long under represented in FFXI and they were a staple of previous games.
The comment about crabs is totally true, there's just too many of them.
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