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[hym]

TV watchdog fines live streaming of Gezi protests for ‘harming development of children, youth’

The Radio and Television Supreme Council (RTÜK) has fined a number of channels, including Halk TV, for "harming the physical, moral and mental development of children and young people" by broadcasting coverage of the Gezi Park protests.

Ulusal TV, Cem TV and EM TV were also among the fined networks.

Halk TV, in particular, has gained unexpected popularity over its 24-hour live streaming of events around Istanbul, at a time when many mainstream media outlets gave little coverage to the ongoing protests.

For those who still thought the absence of Freedom of the Press in Turkey was an exaggeration. As the Democratic People's Republic of Korea so gracefully reminds us, democracy can become nothing more than a meaningless label when essential rights are not respected and protected.

 

[Magni]

TV watchdog fines live streaming of Gezi protests for ‘harming development of children, youth’



For those who still thought the absence of Freedom of the Press in Turkey was an exaggeration. As the Democratic People's Republic of Korea so gracefully reminds us, democracy can become nothing more than a meaningless label when essential rights are not respected and protected.

Unbelievable.

 

[alstein]

Simply put, the problem is the majority in Turkey don't want freedom/Democracy. They want fundamentalism. It's a real shame for the folks who are doing the right thing, but democracy can easily end up as tyranny of the majority. (This assumes Erdogan does have support of majority of people, which I believe despite the type of person he is- he reminds me of Hugo Chavez)

It's similar to what would happen in states like Mississippi and North Carolina if they didn't have to worry about the Constitution and federal government.

 

[Liberty4all]

Simply put, the problem is the majority in Turkey don't want freedom/Democracy. They want fundamentalism. It's a real shame for the folks who are doing the right thing, but democracy can easily end up as tyranny of the majority.

I will pray for Turkey. Wong religion but I will still pray.

 

[valentine71]

Some fun for the other Freedom Fighters and for ours prayers in the GAF:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201286885681184

 

[KPJZKC]

Had not realised the bill against alcohol advertising was so severe - efes (which is pretty much the national drink of turkey after raki ) is (according to wiki) the 12th largest beer brewer in the world market, and they were forced to shut down their website because of the bill - http://www.efespilsen.com.tr/

Efes is immensely popular in eastern europe, and like the 8th most popular brand in Europe (which is fucking crazy as we don't even sell it here in Ireland or the UK).

Personally I love Efes though, but I'm really starting to think this is just the beginning of a bigger plan to remove alcohol from Turkey entirely.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Had not realised the bill against alcohol advertising was so severe - efes (which is pretty much the national drink of turkey after raki ) is (according to wiki) the 12th largest beer brewer in the world market, and they were forced to shut down their website because of the bill - http://www.efespilsen.com.tr/

Efes is immensely popular in eastern europe, and like the 8th most popular brand in Europe (which is fucking crazy as we don't even sell it here in Ireland or the UK).

Personally I love Efes though, but I'm really starting to think this is just the beginning of a bigger plan to remove alcohol from Turkey entirely.

Alot of hog farmers in Thracian Turkey were harrangled by new restrictions and red tape a few years ago too, and most of the pork they produced went north and west out of the country.

 

[liger05]

10's of 1000s of people protests in six Iraqi provinces today as they do every Friday. MSM media seem to ignore this for some reason.

 

[hym]

30 November, 2010 - Spiegel - The 'Tribune of Anatolia': America's Dark View of Turkish Premier Erdogan

• he trusts nobody completely
  
• terrified of losing his grip on power
  
• a party which works almost exclusively on his behalf
  
• top leaders said to be members of an ideological fraternity
  
• they believe the state must spread their ideology in Europe

That doesn't remind you of somebody?

We can add one more to the list:

14 June, 2013 - Erdogan claims Jewish investors behind protests

At first he blamed opposition, hooligans, foreign governments, now Turkey's PM charges Western, Jewish financiers of scheming to topple economy through prolonged demos.

Conversely, over the last few days and especially since returning from a visit to north Africa, the Turkish PM has constructed his own theory of the ongoing events. At first he comprised a long lists of supposed suspects behind the protests – opposition supporters, hooligans, foreign governments – but recently the government's narrative is taking a more stable shape and accusations are mostly directed at business men and large-scale investors Erdogan has been terming "the interests lobby."

According to him, these want to hamper Turkey's economy for short-term profits. Though the specific guilty partners were not explicitly named, it appears Erdogan is hinting at investors such as Jewish-American tycoon George Soros and other Jewish and Western businessmen.

Also unexplained is why should these investors want to see Turkey's dynamic economy fail, and in what way do they influence protestors across the country.

Erdogan's strategy to blame the international financial establishment echoes with the sounds of the old Turkey, xenophobic and suspicious of the world.

Today, even in Turkey there are not many who would buy into that.

 

[Azih]

Next he's going to say the protestors are being drugged by al-Qaeda. Idiot.

 

[hym]

I'm an outspoken fan of public media, it does require a delicate framework to function as I desire but many countries have accomplished it. Big applause for BBC:

14 June, 2013 - Statement regarding BBC and NTV, Turkey

“The BBC is suspending its partnership with NTV in Turkey with immediate effect following NTV’s decision not to transmit the BBC programme Dunya Gundemi [World Agenda] today.

"Any interference in BBC broadcasting is totally unacceptable and at a time of considerable international concern about the situation in Turkey the BBC’s impartial service to audiences is vital.”

Further information

BBC Türkçe will continue to cover global events – including the events in Turkey – on all platforms, providing its audiences with independent, impartial and balanced reports and analysis.

Its TV programming will continue to be available for viewing via the website bbcturkce.com. BBC Türkçe will continue to engage with its audiences via social media, on Facebook and Twitter.

BBC Press Office

And lol at this, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sevim_Tan%C3%BCrek&diff=559908528&oldid=558190728

Erdogan fan trying to clean up his family history I suppose, Orwell would be proud.

Original Google translate report from 1998.

 

[gamma]

So looks like there was a large police push that cleared the gezi park today?

 

[archnemesis]

Riot police have moved to clear the protest camp in Istanbul's Gezi Park, using tear gas and water cannon.

Police began dismantling the tents that protesters had put up in the park.

The move came hours after Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan warned protesters to evacuate the area ahead of a rally by his AK party on Sunday.

Plans to redevelop the park sparked a wave of broader anti-government unrest and protesters had vowed to stay there until their demands were met.

Local residents took to their balconies or leant out of windows banging pots and pans, while car drivers sounded their horns in support of the protesters, Reuters news agency reports.

Some of the protesters were reportedly receiving medical attention, several of them retreating into a nearby hotel.

In the capital Ankara, thousands of people came out onto the streets to chant anti-government slogans.

Earlier, in a speech in Ankara, Mr Erdogan told tens of thousands of AK party supporters: "If Taksim Square is not evacuated, this country's security forces will know how to evacuate it."

"Staying there [in Gezi Park] makes no sense anymore as the matter is now in the hands of the courts," he told tens of thousands of cheering supporters.

"Nobody can intimidate us. We take no orders or instruction from anyone but God," he added.

He also dismissed the wave of demonstrations as part of an organised plot against him.

One protest group responded to Mr Erdogan's speech by calling for another mass rally in Taksim Square. Istanbul is also set to host an AK party rally on Sunday,

Rising 'authoritarianism'

On 31 May, a crackdown on environmentalists in Gezi Park provoked protests across Turkey against the police's actions and against Mr Erdogan's government.

On Saturday, the protesters vowed to stay there, despite a promise by Mr Erdogan to halt the development plan for the park until a court ruling on the issue.

Last month, an Istanbul court issued an initial injunction against the plan to cut down trees in the park to make way for a shopping centre and replica 18th-Century military barracks. The government has appealed against the ruling.

Mr Erdogan's offer was presented as a major concession. But after discussions in Gezi Park on Friday night, the protesters said their movement was more than just a conservation protest and vowed to stay on.

Five people have died and thousands have been injured since the protests began.

Demonstrators have accused Mr Erdogan's government of becoming increasingly authoritarian and of trying to impose conservative Islamic values on a secular state.

The police crackdown on protesters in Istanbul, Ankara, and other towns and cities has drawn international concern, especially from Europe.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-22922697 (they also have a video clip)

 

[Kayo-kun]

Who says that you are not the one who is brainwashed? Maybe we are all brainwashed or maybe none of us is brainwashed. With good economy comes freedom. I never had the feeling i wasn't free in Turkey. If buying alcohol after 22:00 in a store is against your freedom then i don't know anymore. If removing a park is againt your freedom then i don't know anymore either. But there are even people that think that a coup is freedom.

I'm pretty sure that you are the one that have been brainwashed, it's quite apparent since you seem to justify every action AKP have done, not to mention that you haven't even understood why the protests are happening.

It's amazing especially since so many videos and stories have been shared in this thread and you still don't seem to comprehend the situation.


Erdogan is apeshit insane and the way him and his cabinet have handled this situation just shows their incompetence. I hope the west will atleast stop supporting him after these events, since they have played a significant role in his journey as a prime minister. Also if you want to know why the Turkish economy boomed, read some of the changes Kemal Derviş did when he handled the economy and his economic plan that was set in motion in 2001 during Ecevits time. AKP has little to do with creating the economical situation Turkey is in at the moment. Another note that I would like to bring up is that I as a Turkish citizen couldn't give a shit about the economy if my basic human rights aren't available while living under a pseudo-dictatorship.

 

[archnemesis]

People are now returning to the square and they've started to build barricades. On Monday there will be a general strike. This thing is far from over.

 

[Mavromatis]

Read this. Economy getting fucked at this moment because of some freedom bullshit and a lousy park. Stupid stupid people.

edit: You know what. I hope that the econonomy goes to shit. That Turkey gets money bills with 6 zeros again. I really hope this. Then maybe then CHP will get chosen and you will have your "freedom" but no money to enjoy your "freedom". Go go Turkish freedom fighters.

I love this imported political view, I assume you were in your teens when AKP took the power since you have no idea how the Turkish system worked.
1. There is no bipartisan system. There is no AKP vs CHP like Republican vs Democrats.
2. There wasn't a single party government, there is always a coalition of parties balancing each other.
3. This CHP never got in a coalition nor got to the power by themselves. They have never governed this country. So all the CHP "will get chosen and this will happen" is pure fantasy fueled by the lack of knowledge.

 

[Katzenjammer]

Thoudands of people have now started marching towards Taksim, many roads are clogged and traffic is at a standstill.

Edit: update of tonight's events: http://www.bianet.org/english/crisis/147620-police-attacks-gezi-park-after-pm-s-eviction-call

A hotel in which people were taking refuge was heavily attacked with gas and chemicals tonight.

 

[coldfoot]

This is what happens when you give fundamentalists power under the guise of democracy, they try to take the rights of everyone else. And lol at fascist KanyeEast. Stuff like this makes me think of enlisting and fighting against these fundamentalists in Afghanistan...
As a drone operator of course

 

[hym]

Everyone who enters Taksim Square will be treated as a terrorist: Turkish EU Minister

Everyone who enters Istanbul's Taksim Square, the heart of nearly 20-day-long protests against the government, will be considered a terrorist, Turkey's European Union minister said in a televised interview today.

"[The police] will intervene against everybody who try to enter Taksim Square, [treating them] as a terrorist," Egemen Bağış said hours after the police's ferocious intervention against protesters in Istanbul.

Clashes between the police and protesters are continuing around the square along with some other parts of the city.

Bağış has been criticising the foreign media for exaggerating the protests in Turkey.

The hell? that's not how terrorism works buddy, also cute that he said it AFTER the police crackdown, that sort of talk is more in the trend of a warning and not a justification after the fact.

I guess they still want to go down the path of vilifying demonstrators, it's a difficult sell without Police deaths (surely AKP wouldn't descend that low?).

 

[Mavromatis]

Everyone who enters Taksim Square will be treated as a terrorist: Turkish EU Minister



The hell? that's not how terrorism works buddy, also cute that he said it AFTER the police crackdown, that sort of talk is more in the trend of a warning and not a justification after the fact.

I guess they still want to go down the path of vilifying demonstrators, it's a difficult sell without Police deaths (surely AKP wouldn't descend that low?).

And Taksim is the most crowded spot of the whole country. Not just during the protests, it is where everybody goes for any reason. With İstiklal avenue it hosts most of the embassies, large part of the night life, the largest plaza of the city, a transportation hub, etc.

There are thousands of people most of them tourists at any given time unrelated to the protests at the square.

 

[Liberty4all]

Terrorists? Wtf

 

[Violet_0]

looks like Turkey won't be in the EU anytime soon

 

[hym]

I guess they still want to go down the path of vilifying demonstrators, it's a difficult sell without Police deaths (surely AKP wouldn't descend that low?).

Bah I could have guessed I can't overestimate the malevolence of Islamists. This is so incredibly transparent, I hope foreign intelligence agencies have concluded by now to pull the plug on this farce of a leader.

16 June, 2013 - Provocateurs use guns, two policemen injured: Istanbul governor

Some provocateurs among protesters are using guns, Istanbul Governor Hüseyin Avni Mutlu said via tweeter at 1.45 a.m. today.

"Provocateurs have started using guns now. Two security force members have been injured," he said in his official twitter account, adding that they were in good condition. "I think it is important to inform our public," he wrote.

A few hours earlier, Mutlu had told reporters today that it was satisfactory that the attack on Gezi Park "lasted for a short time and did not cause any problems", adding that the street clashes in the city would ease in a few hours. “This is not even an intervention, it’s an evacuation,” Mutlu told reporters. However, violent clashes were continuing around the Taksim Square.

None of the 29 injured people were in a critical condition, Mutlu said, denying earlier reports which said that the number was much higher. One person underwent eye surgery, but faced no risks of losing the eye, he said.

Call to avoid the Sunday demo

Mutlu also said that everyone should respect the law, referring to a court decision that halted the plans to build a facility in the park, which had triggered public anger.

"Youth should not let some marginal groups abuse their demands in their future democratic demands," he added.

How deplorable to resort to such disgraceful tactics to coerce people into compliance with fear for their lives, they might as well just put AKP members with a big whip behind police.

 

[KanyeEast]

So basically you guys are saying that the 40-50% of Turkey that voted for AKP are fundamentalist and idiot and you guys are the smart and enlightened ones who see everything. Everyone else is blind. If AKP wins in the next election again with 50% will you guys still ignore that?
If you don't like Erdogan then first find someone to vote for.

Edit: I am not a fundamentalist at all. I drink alcohol and almost never prey.

 

[alstein]

This is what happens when you give fundamentalists power under the guise of democracy, they try to take the rights of everyone else. And lol at fascist KanyeEast. Stuff like this makes me think of enlisting and fighting against these fundamentalists in Afghanistan...
As a drone operator of course

This happens in the US as well, just look at the Tea Party. (admittedly, that's to a lesser degree, but only because of lack of opportunity)

 

[archnemesis]

When you try to restrict other people's freedoms because of your religion I think it's fair to call you fundamentalist.

There is no freedom of speech, no freedom of the press, and no freedom of assembly in Turkey. The government is also cracking down on access to alcohol and pork. I can easily see why secular Turks are upset.

 

[Dead Man]

So basically you guys are saying that the 40-50% of Turkey that voted for AKP are fundamentalist and idiot and you guys are the smart and enlightened ones who see everything. Everyone else is blind. If AKP wins in the next election again with 50% will you guys still ignore that?
If you don't like Erdogan then first find someone to vote for.

Edit: I am not a fundamentalist at all. I drink alcohol and almost never prey.

A majority is not grounds to trample on the minorities.

 

[Kayo-kun]

So basically you guys are saying that the 40-50% of Turkey that voted for AKP are fundamentalist and idiot and you guys are the smart and enlightened ones who see everything. Everyone else is blind. If AKP wins in the next election again with 50% will you guys still ignore that?
If you don't like Erdogan then first find someone to vote for.

Edit: I am not a fundamentalist at all. I drink alcohol and almost never prey.

There is something called tyranny of the majority. Read that up instead of spewing the same things over and over again. Just because the majority of the country votes for someone, doesn't mean that this majority can go over the rights of the minority (even if it happened in a democratic way). A good example of democracy turning out to be a failure is the case with the Nazi Party in Germany which won the elections during 1930s. It happened in a democratic way, but we all know what happened after that and how the minorities of Germany were treated.

 

[Mavromatis]

If AKP wins in the next election again with 50% will you guys still ignore that?

If these protests continue will you still ignore it? Also nobody is ignoring AKP nor the masses voting for them, I mean protesting against something is not ignoring it. I don't think the next election will have a huge difference but the new voters, those who hit 18 at the election, might add some change to it. But that ain't the point, nor getting elected or changing the government is. The point is that government should listen. You elect them to realize your will not to impose their will on you.

 

[MisterFalcon]

If these protests continue will you still ignore it? Also nobody is ignoring AKP nor the masses voting for them, I mean protesting against something is not ignoring it. I don't think the next election will have a huge difference but the new voters, those who hit 18 at the election, might add some change to it. But that ain't the point, nor getting elected or changing the government is. The point is that government should listen. You elect them to realize your will not to impose their will on you.

It takes a few thousand people to fill a square, that should not automatically make their desire the decision the government should take. Any country would become totally ungovernable if a protest by a tiny percentage of the electorate would decide policy.

 

[Dead Man]

It takes a few thousand people to fill a square, that should not automatically make their desire the decision the government should take. Any country would become totally ungovernable if a protest by a tiny percentage of the electorate would decide policy.

Regardless of the size of them ,their demands are in line with liberal democracy, they are not fringe demands by lunatics.

 

[Jackpot]

So basically you guys are saying that the 40-50% of Turkey that voted for AKP are fundamentalist and idiot and you guys are the smart and enlightened ones who see everything. Everyone else is blind. If AKP wins in the next election again with 50% will you guys still ignore that?
If you don't like Erdogan then first find someone to vote for.

Edit: I am not a fundamentalist at all. I drink alcohol and almost never prey.

Erdogan: "We take no orders or instruction from anyone but God"

I like how you don't even attempt to deal with current events. The pics of policemen macing journalists or Erdogan's repeated nutjob claims that the protests are all part of a grand conspiracy by foreigners/jewish bankers/terrorists.

 

[Darklord]

Everyone who enters Taksim Square will be treated as a terrorist: Turkish EU Minister

America treated Occupy Wall street as terrorists. "Terrorist" is just a spin word now for anyone not 100% pro government.

 

[Perkel]

It takes a few thousand people to fill a square, that should not automatically make their desire the decision the government should take. Any country would become totally ungovernable if a protest by a tiny percentage of the electorate would decide policy.

Then how about stop medling in people lives ?

Being awesome in economics dosn't give you right to tell people how they should live.

 

[Perkel]

America treated Occupy Wall street as terrorists. "Terrorist" is just a spin word now for anyone not 100% pro government.

Great that's how gov should deal with it. What can possibly go wrong ?

 

[alstein]

America treated Occupy Wall street as terrorists. "Terrorist" is just a spin word now for anyone not 100% pro government.

The word terrorist has rapidly lost all its meaning. That's pretty much what it means now- it's just another word for rebel.

 

[KanyeEast]

- Erdogan talked with the protesters. He said there will be a referendum for the park. But the protesters are even against this. What i understand here is that the protesters don't want democracy.
-Alcohol sold till 22:00 is reasonable in stores. You can drink till the morning in the bars. This is done because there is a high level of traffic deaths in Turkey.
- Freedom of press is a issue i agree with you guys. During this event i have realized that freedom of press is very bad.
For the rest i feel myself free as a bird in Turkey. But there are some guys here who think they have more freedom with a coup.

 

[Kayo-kun]

- Erdogan talked with the protesters. He said there will be a referendum for the park. But the protesters are even against this. What i understand here is that the protesters don't want democracy.
-Alcohol sold till 22:00 is reasonable in stores. You can drink till the morning in the bars. This is done because there is a high level of traffic deaths in Turkey.
- Freedom of press is a issue i agree with you guys. During this event i have realized that freedom of press is very bad.
For the rest i feel myself free as a bird in Turkey. But there are some guys here who think they have more freedom with a coup.

- Erdogan talked with "representatives" which were mostly people who had nothing to do with the protesting groups.

- It's not simple about alchohol being sold at a specific time. It's more about the restrictions and censorship (in the press, tv, internet etc.) during the last several years. Look up the latest major case with Fazil Say.

- You feel free like a bird in Turkey because you don't know any better. Come to Sweden and you'll see that the freedom in a country like Turkey and here in Sweden are different as day and night.

Oh and apparently the "water" that the police were using against the protesters doesn't seemed to be water after wall. Many protester have gotten burns and allergic reactions from whatever they put into the things they have been spraying on people for weeks. The leading government and the police are sinking lower and lower.

 

[hym]

- Erdogan talked with the protesters. He said there will be a referendum for the park. But the protesters are even against this. What i understand here is that the protesters don't want democracy.
-Alcohol sold till 22:00 is reasonable in stores. You can drink till the morning in the bars. This is done because there is a high level of traffic deaths in Turkey.
- Freedom of press is a issue i agree with you guys. During this event i have realized that freedom of press is very bad.
For the rest i feel myself free as a bird in Turkey. But there are some guys here who think they have more freedom with a coup.

An issue? it's entirely absent, even Twitter is claimed to be worse than car bomb terrorists by elected officials, I'm sure it led to interesting situations in conservative Turkish families whose children are suddenly painted as terrorists. Do you believe democracy can coexist without freedom of the press?

Erdogan circumvented the democratic process and it was premeditated all along.
Before entering government, Erdogan said: “Democracy is like a train. We shall get out when we arrive at the station we want.”

We always hear Erdogan didn't change, and this is still he same person who was the mayor of Istanbul, well fine, then the majority was tricked into rationalizing theocratic fascism. Alcohol laws is just boiling the frog just like blasphemy laws were, fast forward a century on this path and you have Saudi style executions for apostates.

Religion is frequently poison but Islamism is a masochistic torture device.

Nasser and Atatürk understood this perfectly, what happened to the Muslim world to ignore that homegrown wisdom?

 

[Jackpot]

Oh and apparently the "water" that the police were using against the protesters doesn't seemed to be water after wall. Many protester have gotten burns and allergic reactions from whatever they put into the things they have been spraying on people for weeks. The leading government and the police are sinking lower and lower.

Has a strong yellow/brown tint to it. Could it be UV dye for identifying people present afterwards?

 

[Mii]

Do you believe democracy can coexist without freedom of the press?

A disconnect in what we typically view as the connection between democracy and freedom has occurred because a rural majority has a less developed sense of what democracy and freedom are. Democracy and freedom do not have absolute values and instead can be placed on a gradient. For instance, freedom could be allowed only within the boundaries of a religious understanding of life. Democracy could be limited in its action by religious text. Citizens with this view would believe that freedom and democracy within proper limits should be aimed for.

The problem arises when those governing try to judge where those limits ought to be. Abuses can occur when leaders determine where those limits are. However, if leaders can make the case to their voter base that the limits were for the betterment of society (regardless of the 'truth'), you may have actions that insult the western view of freedom and democracy but are still allowed by a democratic system.

I would classify American apathy to NSA programs as falling into this category, and I'm sure we could come up with many other instances of this worldwide. Turkey isn't alone in the world with its disconnect between democracy and freedom, and fixing this can only be achieved in the long-term through education and economic improvement. A movement of a minority under these circumstances can be brutally put down without much impact on general approval of the government or long-term international impact (think the 2009 Iran election protests).

Erdogan circumvented the democratic process and it was premeditated all along.
Before entering government, Erdogan said: “Democracy is like a train. We shall get out when we arrive at the station we want.”

I think Erdogan's quote directly reflects what I am saying above. He is trying to sense where those limits of democracy are that will maintain for him a majority of the voter base and maximum control. He is by no means alone in the western world in trying to find this 'station' applicable for his country, but he is perhaps the only one willing to admit it in the western world. That does not excuse abuse of minority opinion, of course, but to say Turkey is any different than many other countries in applying selective freedom is exaggerating.

Religion is frequently poison but Islamism is a masochistic torture device.

Nasser and Atatürk understood this perfectly, what happened to the Muslim world to ignore that homegrown wisdom?

The Iranian Revolution occurred. Arguably, the Shah of Iran also had this view. The impacts of Islam on a culture can't be stopped overnight. Education and economic improvement are the only means of removing the impact of religion on democracy and freedom, and the process takes decades. The Shah attempted to begin this process, but he overestimated what was possible in a short period of time through economic improvement and silencing majority dissent. If the desires of the religious majority are totally ignored, you risk destruction of all progressive improvements made by the minority.

Erdogan plays towards his rural religious base yet has brought significant improvements to the economic welfare of the people. These economic improvements will set Turkey on the fast track to significance on the world stage and bring with it many other improvements over time, including improving education standards, greater freedoms and more efficient democracy. Why destabilize what will eventually lead to democratic reform by demanding for it now without the proper support base?

You could argue that Turkey has reached that point in its growth stage that it can demand the increased freedoms, but that doesn't seem likely if Erdogan can somehow pull in a majority of voters. I'll be interested to see how future elections turn out after this.

 

[coldfoot]

Stuff like this is the reason our forefathers wrote the second amendment. Pro-government fascism is pretty extreme in Turkey these days.

 

[KanyeEast]

Over 1 million supporters at AKP rally at this moment.
Anti Erdogan people will say Erdogan paid all those people.

 

[coldfoot]

He's using taxpayer money and using municipal busses to carry all those sheep. Also it's physically impossible to fit that many people in that area.
Sad to see islamofascists supporting the implementation Shariah Law are on GAF.

This is the kind of stuff cops do in Turkey, apparently:

 

[Katzenjammer]

Over 1 million supporters at AKP rally at this moment.
Anti Erdogan people will say Erdogan paid all those people.

Tayyip also claimed that he has planted 2800000000 trees over ten years. He seems to be struggling with powers of ten..

 

[rezuth]

-Alcohol sold till 22:00 is reasonable in stores. You can drink till the morning in the bars. This is done because there is a high level of traffic deaths in Turkey.

How many of those are linked to alcohol?

 

[Frustrated_me]

To his point, A LOT of car incident deaths are due to alcohol in Turkey. Culturally, people drink and dont care much about not driving afterwards. To a certain extend I'm OK with Erdogan's view on alcohol sale (In Montreal alcohol cannot be sold at stores after 11pm and can only be found at bars later on).

 

[KanyeEast]

He's using taxpayer money and using municipal busses to carry all those sheep. Also it's physically impossible to fit that many people in that area.
Sad to see islamofascists supporting the implementation Shariah Law are on GAF.

You are the perfect example of the people we don't want in Turkey. You are not for democracy. You don't deserve democracy. You are calling people who are not thinking and voting the same as you sheeps. You are the reason why Tayyip will get 50% of the votes for many years. People like you liked it when Erdogan was in prison. It's payback time.

This is my last post and i will not discuss anything here further.

 

[Reneledarker]

You are the perfect example of the people we don't want in Turkey. You are not for democracy. You don't deserve democracy. You are calling people who are not thinking and voting the same as you sheeps. You are the reason why Tayyip will get 50% of the votes for many years. People like you liked it when Erdogan was in prison. It's payback time.

This is my last post and i will not discuss anything here further.

So democracy is about payback?



Anyway, keep fighting Turkey-GAF, you have a hard battle ahead.

Yo face a great challenge, a fascist-Islamic government.

 

[hym]

Erdogan plays towards his rural religious base yet has brought significant improvements to the economic welfare of the people. These economic improvements will set Turkey on the fast track to significance on the world stage and bring with it many other improvements over time, including improving education standards, greater freedoms and more efficient democracy. Why destabilize what will eventually lead to democratic reform by demanding for it now without the proper support base?

You could argue that Turkey has reached that point in its growth stage that it can demand the increased freedoms, but that doesn't seem likely if Erdogan can somehow pull in a majority of voters. I'll be interested to see how future elections turn out after this.

I don't buy this, hardcore ignorance and unimaginable prosperity aren't mutually exclusive at all, see Saudi Arabia and Qatar. I also disbelief that the Islamic Revolution in Iran motivated Sunnis to duplicate the direction, they consistently act condescending towards Iran despite it's obvious edge on education and development over every Muslim country except Turkey.

It's your assessment that there is no proper support base for reform, I believe if everyone was exposed to the AKP practices he would barely gather 30% of the electorate, i.e. the fanatics and those with desire authoritarian rule. The slave mindset who desires to be told what to think by authority, the personality types responsible for sustaining religion.

I suspect they will forever be part of human society but it's not because you're stuck with sheep that you need to make their herder the chief of the village because treating people like sheep will force them to sympathize with the wolves.

Saudi Arabia and Qatar have this problem, and their solution is to export their wolf allies.

Respect to National Will rally held in Ankara

On this topic, Erdogan noted, “We revealed that the person who coordinated the meeting in Damascus between the main opposition CHP party and Assad was the Reyhanli bomber himself.” He added “After the Reyhanli blasts, they made another trap against developing, empowering Turkey with its rising influence.”

Ah so Assad is controlling Al-Qaeda now?
Gendarmerie officer accused of leaking secret documents on Reyhanlı arrested

Erdogan is a disgusting whore of deceit.