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It would be relatively easy for Sony to counter Switch's success

Except the vita isn't and has never been a failure. A failure was the Virtual Boy, which ended production with only 22 games ever released. Vita was at the very least a modest success, not a blockbuster, and not enough for them to risk another go, probably.

Vita is a grim failure, just like the Wii U. There is no need to sugercoat either's dismal sales numbers.

Sony went from an 82 million selling device to a <15 million system and was chased out of the market. There is nothing "modest success" about that.
 
Why does everything have to be a war? Sony's doing their thing and it's working great. Nintendo is doing theirs and it's also going great. It's ok for the companies to be doing their own thing.
 
I don't think Sony ever understood handhelds. Their efforts to me were more of a portable, semi last gen console. Literally the same experience you had already had in the palm of your hand.

Nintendo always get the 'gimmick factor' of the hardware right, then they have a really diverse game library which includes many games that are a perfect marry for that type of device. I always found these to be absent on the PS portables, or mostly absent.
 
Eh, Sony is already plenty successful with the ps4, and I'd MUCH rather they not have a complete monopoly in the gaming hardware industry.
 

Blam

Member
Man, why hasn't Sony hired half of GAF yet? These ideas are so brilliant and thought out.

Yeah they are very obtainable and can be made and pushed out into production pretty damn soon I'd say any of these ideas proposed here could be made into a full blown product in a week.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Even then, the game sizes would come into play big time. 64GB game cards? If download only, 256-512GB onboard flash memory? That's gonna cost ya.

I mean, even the convenience of sharing physical media with the PS4 is lost from the get-go.

Yea this too.

We still havent seen what bigger 3rd party games are effected by the Switch.
 

Meffer

Member
They already tried with the Vita but it simply never worked. That was their attempt as a type of portable console but it was underpowered and not enough utility like L2 and R2, clickable sticks as well. That and mandatory memory cards that were and still are expensive for the amount of memory they have. This was cost people couldn't stomach.
The PSTV was their attempt to play Vita on your TV but most games had to be patched to work on PSTV.
They even tried remote play for the Vita to actually play console games from PS3 and PS4. But the lack of triggers and clickable sticks hinder control and you need a decent wifi to do this as well. And some games don't support remote play.
Yeah, they tried but the execution is flawed and requires the customer to buy and shit ton of stuff to use these options.
 

Veitsev

Member
VIta failed because Sony didn't support it, priced it too high, and required expensive proprietary memory cards. 3DS was on the same path until Nintendo slashed the system's price (selling at a loss) and went all in with game support. The Vita couldn't beat a less powerful system. A better Vita isn't going to magically be able to beat Switch. OP comes off like wishful fanboy thinking and thats putting it nicely.
 

modsbox

Member
A better Vita isn't going to magically be able to beat Switch.

Agreed, a better Vita isn't beating anything. But if they could deliver a portable PS4 without some of the Vita's major mistakes (microsd cards, L2/R2 buttons) it could do fantastically well.

For the same reasons that Switch will be successful in that it finally delivers to devs a single platform to develop for to reach both Nintendo's guaranteed handheld audience and their not-as-guaranteed console audience, a PS4 Portable would do the same for Sony. All the devs can continue to pour their efforts into making top quality PS4 games, only now they can sell them digitally to portable/handheld users as well.

No dilution of effort across two different platforms, as much as it's a big benefit for Nintendo with Switch would be a massive benefit to Sony given PS4s enormous lifetime sales.
 

Ninja Dom

Member
Except the vita isn't and has never been a failure. A failure was the Virtual Boy, which ended production with only 22 games ever released. Vita was at the very least a modest success, not a blockbuster, and not enough for them to risk another go, probably.

Interesting fact, The Virtual Boy sold 1.1 million units which is more than any current VR headset has sold. Still a failure though.
 

CamHostage

Member
I actually agree with the OP that Sony is/was wasting an opportunity to bring its mid-generation model to Vita (and proposed something similar last year; somebody also posted something on those lines last July.) I'm almost onboard with such insanity...

Manufacturing the same essential Vita models from 2011 makes little sense to me when mobile technology has grown by tremendous leaps while dropping prices for outdated components. Sony hasn't stopped manufacturing Vita, so until that happens, why continue making the exact same old hardware when you can take advantage of time and make a Vita that is a little sweeter for conceivably the same price? Sony could have addressed some of the issues that show the system's age, and maybe rethought a few choices that have been cited as drawbacks to produce a Vita that would supplant the current model. The idea of a PlayStation Vita Pro would be a hard sell, so they couldn't go crazy with the meager market Vita has. (*And going against my own interests, it's worth pointing out that if you look at manufacturing change costs, refurbishing Vita in any way is probably a money-loser against its market trends.) But there are things that perhaps could have been done within the architecture to run games better and make the system operate more smoothly or cooperate with PS4 better. I still believe that there was a time Sony could have produced (and maybe still should) a final version of Vita that plays and accesses the games and entertainment Vita sells today better.

...All that said, the idea of Sony introducing a new Vita that could counter the success of the Switch is not at all realistic. This platform is in no shape to compete with any market, and is only being kept alive by the die-hard (and, before Switch, by the portable-hungry gamers.) Vita has no future; it only has a seemingly ever-lasting, impossible present.
 
Not borrowing the modularity basically means your idea is a more powerful Vita.
That's basically ignoring that the Switch's selling points are not in numbers. Remote play already works well in some cases, it's just not as practical.
So as a "counter" to the Switch, it's not really there (neither multiplayer nor hybrid).
[...] PSVita revision to counter the success of the Switch and perhaps even steal its thunder.
[...]
3) HDMI out port to hook up the PSVita to any screen.
[...]
7) 720p screen.
[...]
The more delicate point in this regard is probably 6), but the New Nintendo 3DS has proved that it is not impossible to revise the system specs later in its life cycle. [...]
You can't really increase the max output resolution of a handheld system refresh/revision - as opposed to PC and console games which usually resize their outputs, handheld games are designed for a fixed amount of pixels on the screen. Unless you want the old games to look bad (well, the Super / Game Boy Player didn't look that bad blown up on a bigger screen). What you are pitching can only be a sequel to the Vita, and for that there probably are ways to be a bit more ambitious than what you wrote down.
 
No new specs mean anything if Sony doesn't prioritize it developmentally.

The number of people willing to buy a secondary Sony system to play watered down PS4 games and the occasional obscure Japanese release is small.
 

FinalAres

Member
Thing is, you'd rely on third parties.

It's fine for consoles where it's a done deal, but when it comes to handheld, the manufacturer has to develop the market on their own first.

That means Sony would have to support a console AND a handheld. If Nintendo couldn't do it, then there's no way Sony will be able to do it.
 

BGBW

Maturity, bitches.
It's been nine hours since the OP proposed this idea.

Guess it really wasn't that easy.
 

ggx2ac

Member
There’s no denying that the success of the Switch means that many developers will eventually abandon the PSVita. Sony of course has little interest in keeping the Vita alive, since it’s proved to be a major failure worldwide, except in Japan where it’s still coasting along pretty nicely, with some multiplatform titles occasionally selling more on Vita than on PS4.

An article from 2016... How about looking at Vita now? It has a rate of 4k hardware sales per week, it's no longer doing okay in Japan and it is far off from getting anywhere near the 20M sales the PSP did in Japan.

The PS Vita is Sony's biggest gaming hardware failure that they try to hide it by not giving out the total shipment numbers for it.

Reading the rest of your post, it sounds like you're not really addressing the problems the Vita had that made it fail. Remember that the 3DS wasn't doing well that the Vita should've done better but the Vita still bombed.

Sony's doing mobile games now, whether they'll tackle handhelds again is dependent on Sony Interactive Entertainment which has its HQ in the US now which has the same guys that don't give a shit about the PS Vita every year.
 

goldenpp72

Member
They don't need to, and no it wouldn't be. They don't have the powerhouse of IP Nintendo has in the portable market, as seen with Vita. Sony does best in the big console game.
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I think the only reason the Switch even connects to TVs is for the sake of the western market -- the people who don't have time or reason to play handhelds. The Switch is really a compromise between Japan's handheld-centered market and the west's TV-centric market. Sony already has a device for the latter market -- the PS4. Adding an HDMI out to the Vita wouldn't help it in Japan at all.

I still think the best course of action for Sony would be to wait a few years until the original PS4 hardware is more nature and see if it's possible to shrink it down to the size of a Switch or Vita. A handheld that plays all digital PS4 games, in combination with a PS5 that's backwards compatible thus sharing much of the software library, would be a really good path forward for the PlayStation ecosystem as a whole.

No new specs mean anything if Sony doesn't prioritize it developmentally.

The number of people willing to buy a secondary Sony system to play watered down PS4 games and the occasional obscure Japanese release is small.

This too.

The Vita's biggest problem is it tried to be a mini PlayStation console without actually sharing the same library as a PlayStation console, requiring a separate code base and purchase with each game. Either cross-buy should be universally enforced for all multiplatform games, or the next Sony handheld needs to be more literally a minimized console that really does play the exact same SKU/code as the console version.
 
Nintendo has dominated the handheld market for generations. What would Sony have to gain from leaving a market they're the leader in, just to go punch above their weight with Nintendo?

The last thing Sony needs is another hybrid/portable. The PS4/Xbox One are the power standard for consoles right now (which is already out of date by Sony/MS's own hardware standards), so for them to put out a handheld that is considerably weaker than the PS4 would again require them to split development efforts, just like they had to (failed to) with the PS Vita.

Sony doesn't exactly have a history of throwing their full weight into portable systems. I do not think success would follow them into the handheld market unless they were to go all-in on it. And Sony has absolutely no reason to do that.
 

Gitaroo

Member
Unless they release a 10000 yen model with monster hunter world portable launching exclusive with it, I am afraid vita is 100% done in any market. If Sony have any intention of re entering the portable market it literally has to be a multi functional device with phone capability.
 

CamHostage

Member
None of the OP's suggestion fix the problem both the PSP and the Vita had: weak first party lineup that was often at odds with the console line up. Nintendo handhelds have long been "first class citizens" while the PSP and Vita got spin-offs made by B-teams.

Slight detour, but that idea that Nintendo treated its portables as "first class citizens" while Sony always put its low-tier teams on portables is IMO long-standing BS. When you look at them side by side, they're pretty similar. Granted, some of the massive studios like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica have not coded their own games, but Guerrilla, Polyphony Digital, ClapHanz, Media Molecule, San Diego and others made games in-house on PSP or Vita, and the "B-studio" teams they tended to put on portables were good studios, some of which (Sony Bend and Tarsier and Ready at Dawn) are now top teams. Nintendo meanwhile gets credit for its own creative heads "making" portable games, but when you look at the credits, it's a top-line producer with a notable name but then the core development staff are way down the line or still cutting their teeth. Nintendo produces a lot in-house at its EAD office, but it has also farmed out lots and lots of work to Artoon and AlphaDream and Natsume and ND Cube and the like. Retro ported a DKC game, but when it comes to original productions, they're too big with their console work and let minor studios like NST make the portable version. And it's hard to consider the portable games "first-class citizens" when the budgets for portable games from Nintendo are clearly fractions of what the publisher pays for equivalent console products (albeit at lower prices, but that's a self-fulfilling situation,) whereas while Sony never over-invested in portable games either, the visible production value in money it poured into products such as the GoW duo and Uncharted GA is on a higher scale than what Nintendo has ever spent on any given portable game.

They generally have a similar approach to the business of producing portable games; the schedules that Nintendo affords its development team and the franchises it has in the roster, however, make for drastically different results.

Although Nintendo doesn't maintain a lot of continuity across its franchises, few gamers consider the portable versions of its games to be "canon", and as much as I love portable games (and personally hold Zelda: Link's Awakening as my favorite Zelda), it is clear to see that every portable game is a smaller and less valued title than the equivalent game on console from the same era. Mario and Zelda and Metroid and Fire Emblem have never been content with the GBA/DS/3DS games they're getting, they've always used them to bide their time for the "real" games that eventually come to the home platform.

I don't think Sony ever understood handhelds. Their efforts to me were more of a portable, semi last gen console. Literally the same experience you had already had in the palm of your hand.

Nintendo always get the 'gimmick factor' of the hardware right, then they have a really diverse game library which includes many games that are a perfect marry for that type of device. I always found these to be absent on the PS portables, or mostly absent.

I'm also calling BS on this commonly-held belief, that Sony just made lots of ports and console wanna-bes while Nintendo had the perfect formula for what makes a portable game. (That said, I am reading more global sentiment into your words than you probably meant.)

Sony had a wide variety of games on portables, from big epic console-quality games like Daxter and KZ:M and the sports games to bite-sized things like Patapon, LocoRoco, Little Deviants, Smart As, etc. They had staples like sports games and racing games and puzzlers; they had multiplayer games like SOCOM and Unit 13 and Buzz; they had play-your-life-away games like Wipeout and TM:HO and Lemmings that could be played a little bit or for hours and hours. Most importantly, both of their portables had a rest mode feature (thank god that now every platform has that; it was far and away the best thing about being a PSP and DS fan in that era of painful loadtimes) which made every type of game from the massive epics to little time-wasters as bite-sized and easy to put down as need be.

If Nintendo had the perfect formula all along for exactly what a gamer wants in a portable, we would be seeing something else besides the console-sized Zelda and Mario Kart (and soon Splatoon and Mario) being played on every train and at every park bench and in every DMV line. As is often the case, any approach can be the wrong thing to do in the gaming business until Nintendo comes along and proves that it can do it right.
 

autoduelist

Member
Make the revision play PS2 games [the ones you can download from PSN for PS3, preferably]. Heck, if possible, make it play the PS4 ones w/ trophies too.

Market it as a portable PS2 in addition to everything else.

SMT Nocturne on the go, please.
 

Playsage

Member
If Sony Is ever going to try portable again, It would be something to support with their next gen console rather than a standalone handheld
 
If Nintendo had the perfect formula all along for exactly what a gamer wants in a portable, we would be seeing something else besides the console-sized Zelda and Mario Kart (and soon Splatoon and Mario) being played on every train and at every park bench and in every DMV line. As is often the case, any approach can be the wrong thing to do in the gaming business until Nintendo comes along and proves that it can do it right.

Pokemon? Nintendogs? Brain Games?
 

linkboy

Member
I don't think Sony ever understood handhelds. Their efforts to me were more of a portable, semi last gen console. Literally the same experience you had already had in the palm of your hand.

Nintendo always get the 'gimmick factor' of the hardware right, then they have a really diverse game library which includes many games that are a perfect marry for that type of device. I always found these to be absent on the PS portables, or mostly absent.

Sony had the right idea, but not the ability to capitalize on it.

Take a look at the Vita, sure it launched with an Uncharted game. However, it wasn't made by Naughty Dog, but instead Bend.

Whereas Mario 3D Land and Mario 3D World were made by the Mario team.

Sony's handhelds played second fiddle to the console, Nintendo's handhelds were treated equally from a development perspective. Nintendo, for example, didn't pass off development of A Link Between Worlds to another team, it was made by EAD.

The fact that Sony's largest development team, with one of their biggest franchises, passed on the system, isn't good. I know that Sony likes to give their teams autonomy, but things like this hurt the Vita.

On the flip side, Nintendo having their main teams do both console and handheld games is the reason why we have the Switch. With the 3DS and Wii U being able to have games with similar gameplay (see Mario 3D Land and 3D World as a prime example), Nintendo was basically competing with themselves.
 
As others have said, Sony doesn't really need to counter the success of the Switch. The PS4 is doing tremendously well for them, they likely don't see the Switch as a threat at all.

But if they did want to counter the Switch, I would suggest making a portable variant of the PS4, as opposed to another handheld. I don't mean a "portable PS4" in the vein of a tablet with PS4 hardware like the Switch, though; but more like a laptop--top half is the screen, bottom half is the PS4 console (with the disk drive), some output ports (for battery or connecting it to a TV), and a a battery that can power the console for a few hours (comparable battery life to the Switch or better would do the trick).

Or in other words--think of the PS One, but if it was a PS4, had modern tech/ergonomics, and had a battery in it:

51XA739GA6L._SX425_.jpg
 

CamHostage

Member
Sony's handhelds played second fiddle to the console, Nintendo's handhelds were treated equally from a development perspective. Nintendo, for example, didn't pass off development of A Link Between Worlds to another team, it was made by EAD.

..On the flip side, Nintendo having their main teams do both console and handheld games is the reason why we have the Switch. With the 3DS and Wii U being able to have games with similar gameplay (see Mario 3D Land and 3D World as a prime example), Nintendo was basically competing with themselves.

Again, I say it's nonsense that Nintendo puts its console and portable games on the same plane. Every Nintendo game is "made by" EAD because Nintendo basically has one big office, and aside from contracting out to external studios (and/or trusting Intelligent System or GameFreak or HAL that it has sustained partnerships with,) all of its games would be made by the same office because that's where its games are made. Sony meanwhile has lots and lots of studios, so it's more names to know, and more clear hold-outs when Naughty Dog or Evolution don't make their own games (but then again, Guerilla and PD and several other studios did make portable games.) When you look closer at Nintendo credits, it's fewer people and lesser staffers handling the portable games, because despite sales, they'd be out of their minds to put the ace talent on the portable games. Similarly, when you look at budgets, it's evident that they spend way less on the portable games. They treat their portable games well, to be sure (I love a lot of Nintendo portable games), but they don't put the same budget or development talent on portable and console titles.

Even in the examples you cite, there's clear evidence against your proposal. 3D World exists not because of this synergy in the office, but because Nintendo tried something in small scale (same as it did New Super Mario), found that it worked better than expected, and so elevated the title to mainline status (with a much bigger budget and greater oversight over quality.) A Link Between Worlds was made by EAD, sure, but its director Hiromasa Shikata never directed a game before, and the same can be said of the Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass/Spirit Tracks director before him.

Nintendo's making two Metroids: one's by a big new team at EAD, the other is by guys in Spain who made Mirror of Fate. Do you really think they care about both equally as much?

Pokemon? Nintendogs? Brain Games?

Not saying that Nintendo doesn't have brands that fit the mold, but the idea that Sony got everything wrong by focusing on the concept of console-quality games falls apart when the big games driving popularity on Switch are all console-scale titles.
 
Some awful posts in this thread....PSP was a failure? It sold over 80 million units.

Anyone who says VR is dying, and compares it to vita , thanks for letting me know to never listen to your opinion on anything...ever.
 
Sony could totally do it if they wanted to -- but Kaz was like, "Nah, let Nintendo get this money, too. We don't need all the blocks."

Such good people.
 

ArtHands

Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
I think the memory card issue is overhyped.
It's like saying "if Nintendo called the Wii U something cooler it would've been a success"
Would it have helped? Sure.
But Sony losing key IPs like Monster Hunter, GTA, and Square Enix support and dropping support themselves didn't help. 3DS required a $80 price drop and a three hit combo of MK7, 3D Land, and MH3G to recover from its slow start. Don't think anything on Vita was as big as any of those 3.

The memory card issue might be the biggest tell tale sign to those publishers, that this thing is going to be a flop, and causes they to not release those key IPs in the first place.
 

McLovin

Member
I think the memory card issue is overhyped.
It's like saying "if Nintendo called the Wii U something cooler it would've been a success"
Would it have helped? Sure.
But Sony losing key IPs like Monster Hunter, GTA, and Square Enix support and dropping support themselves didn't help. 3DS required a $80 price drop and a three hit combo of MK7, 3D Land, and MH3G to recover from its slow start. Don't think anything on Vita was as big as any of those 3.
Well I was going from my own experience. I really wanted a vita, I thought the streaming feature was incredibly cool. Then there was this black friday sale and it had it at a stupid cheap price (it was under 150 don't remember how much exactly). I went to the store was about to buy it and remembered the memory card thing. I left the store so disappointed. And weren't the software issues because it didn't sell too well? I always figured the memory card thing was what put the vita on the path it ended up taking.
 
Interesting fact, The Virtual Boy sold 1.1 million units which is more than any current VR headset has sold. Still a failure though.


Pretty good burn. Lol...

Trying to wrap my head around this thread and... Yeah... I've been there for the Sony handhelds and never again.
 
If Sony wanted to stick it to Nintendo, they need the PS4 to hit a really small fabrication process, stick a screen and battery on it, and call it a day. We won't see something like this for a while I'd imagine.

Og ps4 consumes around 200 watts of power I think, the slim around 70. The switch is around 20 no?

My math might be hella janky lol.
 

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
I think Sony has a lot of potential with a Switch-like device that can be a pillar alongside the PS5.

Sony needs to properly capture nostalgia, e.g. the PS1 and PS2, among the minds of consumers if they want to avoid a Vita disaster. I think they can do that with Kaz steering the ship.

It boggles my mind as to why Sony still hasn't created some sort of marketplace or backwards compatibility for PS1, PS2 etc. games on a modern Sony platform. Perhaps they're waiting until the PS5 and a potential handheld pillar before they launch something like that.
 
The memory card issue might be the biggest tell tale sign to those publishers, that this thing is going to be a flop, and causes they to not release those key IPs in the first place.
Nah. No one went "this handheld is going to grossly underperform due to memory cards the last system had".

Monster Hunter was already making the jump before the memory card issue was even announced
 
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