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[Rmagnus]

They are going to release Zelda for it? Because that is mainly the reason for the success of the Switch.

Huh?

 

[Nilaul]

I thought the OP would envision a portable PS4 in a year or so that could play all of PS4 library on the go without the need of a stationary PS4 but instead came out with something else that no body wants.

 

[Orniletter]

Someone better tell Japan then.

That said, its why I've wondered if Sony would also go down the hybrid road so they can stay relevant in Japan.

It's on it's very last legs in Japan as well. There is nothing big being done for the system and it sells WiiU-before-being-discontinued numbers.

Even Bamco is moving their licensed game business to the PS4.

 

[Wireframe]

Haha no.

Pack it up guys, we're done here.

 

[foolishoptimist]

It's never about hardware when competing against Nintendo. Nintendo gets a pass on all their failings because people love Mario and zelda.

Just look at how they released a handheld with one analog stick after Sony were dragged for the lifetime of the PSP for ommiting it.

 

[Roufianos]

Sony don't have a big enough first party to support a console and handheld. Simple as that,

 

[zoukka]

The Switch is not a success because it's a lot like Vita...

It's a success because it gets the Nintendo 1st party games WHILE being a lot like Vita.

 

[Nictel]

Huh?

Yes. The portability has little to do with it. There are no numbers unfortunately but I bet playtime is >90% docked based on what I see around me and in articles.

Here are some numbers:

The Switch sold extremely well - Breath of the Wild has (had) an attach rate of over 100% (Link)

So drop BOTW out of the equation, say it didn't release -> There are no trustworthy numbers for games like 1,2 Switch, Bomberman I could find but the numbers out there suggest an attach rate of about 20%.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has an attach rate of 45%, sales rival that of the Wii Mario Kart and it is doing a lot better than the WiiU version. But the game has not that many additions so you can argue it is not a system seller but people who own a system are likely to pick it up.

Super Mario Odyssey will do extremely well too, perhaps even be the best selling Mario game.

Nintendo platforms sell because of first party titles. It is one of the reasons they have trouble getting third party titles; the attach rate on Nintendo platforms is poorer against competitors.

The same goes for their handhelds; release Pokemon on mobile and hardware sales drop hard (look at GO which wasn't even a proper Pokemon game). So many (3)DS systems rarely leave the house.

Handhelds are not actually that popular; Nintendo makes them work because of their games.

 

[captainraincoat]

After sonys last 2 attempts at a handheld....nope ...stick with the ps4

 

[sanstesy]

Yes. The portability has little to do with it. There are no numbers unfortunately but I bet playtime is >90% docked based on what I see around me and in articles.

Here are some numbers:

The Switch sold extremely well - Breath of the Wild has (had) an attach rate of over 100% (Link)

So drop BOTW out of the equation, say it didn't release -> There are no trustworthy numbers for games like 1,2 Switch, Bomberman I could find but the numbers out there suggest an attach rate of about 20%.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has an attach rate of 45%, sales rival that of the Wii Mario Kart and it is doing a lot better than the WiiU version. But the game has not that many additions so you can argue it is not a system seller but people who own a system are likely to pick it up.

Super Mario Odyssey will do extremely well too, perhaps even be the best selling Mario game.

Nintendo platforms sell because of first party titles. It is one of the reasons they have trouble getting third party titles; the attach rate on Nintendo platforms is poorer against competitors.

The same goes for their handhelds; release Pokemon on mobile and hardware sales drop hard (look at GO which wasn't even a proper Pokemon game). So many (3)DS systems rarely leave the house.

Handhelds are not actually that popular; Nintendo makes them work because of their games.

Thanks, very informative!

 

[Powwa]

There are no numbers unfortunately but I bet playtime is >90% docked based on what I see around me and in articles.

Tales from my ass continues. "I have 5 friends using it in docked mode so it should be over %90." Makes sense.

 

[CaviarMeths]

Yes. The portability has little to do with it. There are no numbers unfortunately but I bet playtime is >90% docked based on what I see around me and in articles.

Here are some numbers:

The Switch sold extremely well - Breath of the Wild has (had) an attach rate of over 100% (Link)

So drop BOTW out of the equation, say it didn't release -> There are no trustworthy numbers for games like 1,2 Switch, Bomberman I could find but the numbers out there suggest an attach rate of about 20%.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has an attach rate of 45%, sales rival that of the Wii Mario Kart and it is doing a lot better than the WiiU version. But the game has not that many additions so you can argue it is not a system seller but people who own a system are likely to pick it up.

Super Mario Odyssey will do extremely well too, perhaps even be the best selling Mario game.

Nintendo platforms sell because of first party titles. It is one of the reasons they have trouble getting third party titles; the attach rate on Nintendo platforms is poorer against competitors.

The same goes for their handhelds; release Pokemon on mobile and hardware sales drop hard (look at GO which wasn't even a proper Pokemon game). So many (3)DS systems rarely leave the house.

Handhelds are not actually that popular; Nintendo makes them work because of their games.

Most of this post is either remarkably uninformed or outdated information.

I will eat a bowl of rocks if playtime is anywhere near 90% docked. Hell, 70%.

Zelda probably hasn't had an attach rate of 100% since launch month. And that was always just in North America anyway.

MKW sold 35m copies. MK8D has a long, long, long way to go to reach that. It's also not performing better than the Wii U version, but is likely to outsell it eventually due to the Switch platform having more appeal and longevity.

Again, I'll eat a bowl of rocks if Odyssey is the best selling Mario game.

Pokemon GO led to an increase in 3DS hardware sales and the best selling Pokemon game since Gold/Silver. The article you linked about 3DSs not leaving the house is purely anecdotal (and weird).

 

[Chû Totoro]

this thread.... omg this thread. It's awesome and sad at the same time.

NeoGAF
Believe

Spoiler

we know some things... but we don't know sh*t

You can give your opinion on a product and even if OP is both naive and wrong imo, I won't blame him but some posts here are just... so dumb.

It's sad so many smart people here could benefit so much to the industry while Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo are making only bad decisions all the time.

Maybe I should try too:

• Sony, make a portable PS4 tomorrow with everything listed in this thread. You'll become more valuable than Apple for sure. Also you're lucky to be 1st for now but not listening to fans will kill you soon (so make Spyro and sell 10 million more PS4 in just one week).
• Nintendo please stop doing video games, some say you should go 3rd party, you're even dumber than they think you are. For the best of humanity just stop and make... well make cards again, because no ones play your games of course and no one want your hardware. Just give your licenses to other companies and they'll make better use of these for you. It's just nostalgia anyway.
• Microsoft should just put their games on PC only and keep the Xbox controller. Their don't have any games anyway or just FPS and Racing, and Fighting, and Action, and... well they don't have a mascot like Mario or Crash so they're just here to spend MS money and be a pain for others. Also we all know because you're a US company that your evil. Do you even give some Xbox to the poor? Yeah you're here for the money, that's what I thought from the start (I told you, I'm smart).

Let them decide, if they do you'll see what they have to offer and then you can give your opinion all day. Speculating, especially on such complicated things is not something for this forum (and not sure any place can have a group of people that could make an interesting discussion around this).

Still OP, is far from being the one that says the biggest crap. In my opinion it'd have been best to post a thread like this "would it be easy for Sony to counter Switch's success?" because obviously you have no idea (claiming "relatively easy" is just crazy with you OP's content).
I wouldn't be very helpful either... for me it's not that easy but for many reasons that could be debated.
And since I will relatively fast lack arguments or data to back up my assumptions it'll be mostly speculation. Maybe some others on specific parts of this supposed strategy would have more qualified input (some posts are really interesting to read here but you'll have to go find them )

 

[immortal-joe]

The Switch is not a success because it's a lot like Vita...

It's a success because it gets the Nintendo 1st party games WHILE being a lot like Vita.

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Sony's failings in the handheld space are not remedied by some genius product / marketing / pricing strategy.

Nintendo have some serious buffer room to make mistakes and misjudged the market. They throw their IP at the problem to salvage and succeed.

 

[ryanofcall]

I assume in theory so we can play third party console games on the go.

Right! Like on the Vita and the PSP

Spoiler

JK I love the Vita - so many indies on the go

 

[Soldiussnaku]

Wait what??

They don't need to counter it, this gen has brought them great success.


Even after the switch is released the ps4 is selling incredibly well, bloody years after it has been released. In the us alone it is outselling the switch 2 months in a row and shifted 400k consoles a month just before and after the switch came out. Their glut if exclusives in the first half.of this year ensured them continual sales for god knows how long and they have a fantastic counter to the other big 2 this xmas in all of the 3rd party marketing exclusives they bagged.to sell ps4s hand over fist.

Sure one can say the portable/mobile market is under served, but they already are making serious steps to fill that hole.

With the creation of forward works mobile studio, they are looking to serve as peeps that want to game on the go. I can't think of a better chance to counter the competition then to use your rich ips to cater to many more millions of people.

 

[ArtHands]

Someone better tell Japan then.

That said, its why I've wondered if Sony would also go down the hybrid road so they can stay relevant in Japan.

Japan already moved on from Vita.

I have no idea what this has to do with the post you quoted. Did you read the first sentence and ignore the rest? It's not like Sony doesn't have experience launching new storage mediums.

I read the last sentence. Clearly you are not the norm and is the extreme minority.

 

[Hermii]

Sony don't have a big enough first party to support a console and handheld. Simple as that,

Nintendo doesn't either really, hence they made the Switch.

 

[ggx2ac]

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Sony's failings in the handheld space are not remedied by some genius product / marketing / pricing strategy.

Nintendo have some serious buffer room to make mistakes and misjudged the market. They throw their IP at the problem to salvage and succeed.

Clearly that didn't work for the Wii U.

 

[Klart]

I'd love a revised Vita & would buy it immediately.

However, I doubt it would be a succes.

A hybrid PS4 however...

 

[Wil348]

In past instances where tried to Sony play "Me too" with Nintendo, it didn't exactly work out. For example, PSP (did decently but nowhere near the DS), Move, Vita, etc.

 

[zoukka]

Why is this so hard for people to understand? Sony's failings in the handheld space are not remedied by some genius product / marketing / pricing strategy.

Nintendo have some serious buffer room to make mistakes and misjudged the market. They throw their IP at the problem to salvage and succeed.

Well TBF the Switch is a nice piece of hardware unlike Wii and Wii U were. And Nintendo really seems to get what they need to do to their IP's to get HC gamers back on the hype train.

 

[brawly]

"Keep doing what they do best, selling PS4s, getting marketing deals and churning out exclusives"

Is what the OP should've said.

 

[MarkMclovin]

It's great when someone goes through the time and trouble of making an OP like that not having the slightest clue on how a company produces a product, end to end.

 

[Charles Brandon]

- release Vita
- get battered by 3DS
- fails
- stop supporting Vita
- see Switch
- want some of that pie
- I know...
- release Vita again

 

[PokéKong]

You know what the safest lowest risk possible version of this idea is? So you know how people hack together big chunky portable versions of home consoles? Just make a nice official one of those! They should have waited on the Vita, instead made it a 100% backwards compatible handheld PS3. It wouldn't even matter if support was lackluster for such a platform, it would launch with a catalog that can not be beat. At worst such a thing would be a novelty that every fan would want to own, and at best they could treat it as a rebranded relaunch of the platform with the whole library there as one heck of a bonus.

I've been saying this concept is untapped gold for a long time. Let all major consoles live on in future generations as the handheld companion to the newer more powerful home consoles. Developers would waste no time at all adapting to a new hardware environment, and all the development skills and momentum could simply carry on forward. If duel-screen gaming wasn't so played out by the DS family, I would say the Switch would be even better off as simply a portable Wii U.

 

[Genio88]

Not at all, Sony couldn't do nothing against Switch, they already showed that they're not able to support with good first party games both an handheld and an home console, and right now they are having a great time with the PS4 selling pretty well while Vita is dead, so they have no reason or intention to focus on a handheld again, they'll instead try to remain on top of the home console market. Nintendo Switch is both Nintendo newest handheld and home console, so it'll get lots of Nintendo exclusives which a Sony handheld could never get

 

[Mill0]

It's never about hardware when competing against Nintendo. Nintendo gets a pass on all their failings because people love Mario and zelda.

True.

Its down to Nintendo playing at their own beat, and thats a good thing. But it is a little disheartening when they mess up and nobody says a thing (other than gaf of course haha)

 

[Spman2099]

Yeah, it is over. There is no counter.

If Sony WERE to counter the Switch it would be so very, very far from easy.

 

[eso76]

Huh?

Not just BOTW, but its library definitely.

Plus it's a portable that's also the manufacturer's main (only) console, which means it won't get half assed support like Vita.

 

[FairFriend]

At the cost of digging a deeper hole for myself I updated the OP trying to explain my stance better. I've been enjoying the civil conversation we're having, so I hope you don't mind if I insist a little bit in this insanity of mine XD

I actually agree with the OP that Sony is/was wasting an opportunity to bring its mid-generation model to Vita (and proposed something similar last year; somebody also posted something on those lines last July.) I'm almost onboard with such insanity...

Manufacturing the same essential Vita models from 2011 makes little sense to me when mobile technology has grown by tremendous leaps while dropping prices for outdated components. Sony hasn't stopped manufacturing Vita, so until that happens, why continue making the exact same old hardware when you can take advantage of time and make a Vita that is a little sweeter for conceivably the same price? Sony could have addressed some of the issues that show the system's age, and maybe rethought a few choices that have been cited as drawbacks to produce a Vita that would supplant the current model. The idea of a PlayStation Vita Pro would be a hard sell, so they couldn't go crazy with the meager market Vita has. (*And going against my own interests, it's worth pointing out that if you look at manufacturing change costs, refurbishing Vita in any way is probably a money-loser against its market trends.) But there are things that perhaps could have been done within the architecture to run games better and make the system operate more smoothly or cooperate with PS4 better. I still believe that there was a time Sony could have produced (and maybe still should) a final version of Vita that plays and accesses the games and entertainment Vita sells today better.

...All that said, the idea of Sony introducing a new Vita that could counter the success of the Switch is not at all realistic. This platform is in no shape to compete with any market, and is only being kept alive by the die-hard (and, before Switch, by the portable-hungry gamers.) Vita has no future; it only has a seemingly ever-lasting, impossible present.

therearedozensofus.gif

Sony's doing mobile games now, whether they'll tackle handhelds again is dependent on Sony Interactive Entertainment which has its HQ in the US now which has the same guys that don't give a shit about the PS Vita every year.

I agree on the fact that such a revision will never be approved, especially if it is true that now it's the american branch of SIE making the calls. But I believe that it more of a question of not giving a damn about the market rather than an absolute impossibility of doing decently and being profitable.

Slight detour, but that idea that Nintendo treated its portables as "first class citizens" while Sony always put its low-tier teams on portables is IMO long-standing BS. When you look at them side by side, they're pretty similar. Granted, some of the massive studios like Naughty Dog and Santa Monica have not coded their own games, but Guerrilla, Polyphony Digital, ClapHanz, Media Molecule, San Diego and others made games in-house on PSP or Vita, and the "B-studio" teams they tended to put on portables were good studios, some of which (Sony Bend and Tarsier and Ready at Dawn) are now top teams. Nintendo meanwhile gets credit for its own creative heads "making" portable games, but when you look at the credits, it's a top-line producer with a notable name but then the core development staff are way down the line or still cutting their teeth. Nintendo produces a lot in-house at its EAD office, but it has also farmed out lots and lots of work to Artoon and AlphaDream and Natsume and ND Cube and the like. Retro ported a DKC game, but when it comes to original productions, they're too big with their console work and let minor studios like NST make the portable version. And it's hard to consider the portable games "first-class citizens" when the budgets for portable games from Nintendo are clearly fractions of what the publisher pays for equivalent console products (albeit at lower prices, but that's a self-fulfilling situation,) whereas while Sony never over-invested in portable games either, the visible production value in money it poured into products such as the GoW duo and Uncharted GA is on a higher scale than what Nintendo has ever spent on any given portable game.

They generally have a similar approach to the business of producing portable games; the schedules that Nintendo affords its development team and the franchises it has in the roster, however, make for drastically different results.

Although Nintendo doesn't maintain a lot of continuity across its franchises, few gamers consider the portable versions of its games to be "canon", and as much as I love portable games (and personally hold Zelda: Link's Awakening as my favorite Zelda), it is clear to see that every portable game is a smaller and less valued title than the equivalent game on console from the same era. Mario and Zelda and Metroid and Fire Emblem have never been content with the GBA/DS/3DS games they're getting, they've always used them to bide their time for the "real" games that eventually come to the home platform.

I'm also calling BS on this commonly-held belief, that Sony just made lots of ports and console wanna-bes while Nintendo had the perfect formula for what makes a portable game. (That said, I am reading more global sentiment into your words than you probably meant.)

Sony had a wide variety of games on portables, from big epic console-quality games like Daxter and KZ:M and the sports games to bite-sized things like Patapon, LocoRoco, Little Deviants, Smart As, etc. They had staples like sports games and racing games and puzzlers; they had multiplayer games like SOCOM and Unit 13 and Buzz; they had play-your-life-away games like Wipeout and TM:HO and Lemmings that could be played a little bit or for hours and hours. Most importantly, both of their portables had a rest mode feature (thank god that now every platform has that; it was far and away the best thing about being a PSP and DS fan in that era of painful loadtimes) which made every type of game from the massive epics to little time-wasters as bite-sized and easy to put down as need be.

If Nintendo had the perfect formula all along for exactly what a gamer wants in a portable, we would be seeing something else besides the console-sized Zelda and Mario Kart (and soon Splatoon and Mario) being played on every train and at every park bench and in every DMV line. As is often the case, any approach can be the wrong thing to do in the gaming business until Nintendo comes along and proves that it can do it right.

I also agree with this. Especially during the PSP lifetime Sony published many exclusive games just as good as the main console counterpart, like the aforementioned Daxter and Killzone Liberation.

Still OP, is far from being the one that says the biggest crap. In my opinion it'd have been best to post a thread like this "would it be easy for Sony to counter Switch's success?" because obviously you have no idea (claiming "relatively easy" is just crazy with you OP's content).
I wouldn't be very helpful either... for me it's not that easy but for many reasons that could be debated.
And since I will relatively fast lack arguments or data to back up my assumptions it'll be mostly speculation. Maybe some others on specific parts of this supposed strategy would have more qualified input (some posts are really interesting to read here but you'll have to go find them )

Yeah, undoubtedly the title was poorly worded. I read the whole thread and I'm not sure which posts you are talking about though.

 

[tzare]

Sony did hardware right (minus a couple of things like TV out for example), but failed on the software front (despite some efforts, but not enough obviously). Even if they do not have the kind of IP nintendo has, they could have at least secured 3rd parties like MH for Japan to expand user base and making the hardware attractive to more developers.

So now it is too late. I even think Switch, while will do nice numbers, i doubt it will reach 3DS sales. Unless it goes really cheap.

 

[Spman2099]

So now it is too late. I even think Switch, while will do nice numbers, i doubt it will reach 3DS sales. Unless it goes really cheap.

Insanity. The Switch it going to bury the 3DS in sales.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

Just look at how they released a handheld with one analog stick after Sony were dragged for the lifetime of the PSP for ommiting it.

I looked at two threads posted last week alone where a bunch of Nintendo fans, myself included, tore the 3DS apart for being a giant piece of shit (w/good games)
and I've held that opinion since 2011

 

[Negotiator]

If Sony wanted to stick it to Nintendo, they need the PS4 to hit a really small fabrication process, stick a screen and battery on it, and call it a day. We won't see something like this for a while I'd imagine.

Og ps4 consumes around 200 watts of power I think, the slim around 70. The switch is around 20 no?

My math might be hella janky lol.

GDDR5 is not mobile-friendly. It's a power hog variant of DDR3.

Ideally, they'd need something like HBM2 reaching 176GB/s for perfect binary compatibility. The cost would probably be astronomical for a portable console.

Octa-core Jaguar is also not a good fit for portable consoles... keep in mind that quad-core Jaguar only in exists in laptops, there are no tablets with it at all (can you guess why?). It's not as power efficient as ARM and it'll never be.

Last but not least, semi-custom Radeon 7850/7870 wouldn't be ideal either.

There's a reason PS3/X360/Wii U will never be able to become portable consoles, despite the decade old lithography improvements. Switch matches them and exceeds them in some areas, but it uses totally different CPU/GPU uArchs and memory subsystem to achieve that goal.

ps: OG PS4 reaches 151W (KZ:SF). PS4 Pro goes up to 155W (Infamous First Light).

 

[foolishoptimist]

I looked at two threads posted last week alone where a bunch of Nintendo fans, myself included, tore the 3DS apart for being a giant piece of shit (w/good games)
and I've held that opinion since 2011

PSP and Vita have good games, but you can't talk about the positives without all threads drowning in complaints around the second stick, nubs vs sticks, overpriced proprietary memory(360 got away with this for years), or high price compared to other products with different capabilities.