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[ReBurn]

Is the working theory that without Sega's demise Microsoft wouldn't have entered the console market?

Either way, I wouldn't have bet on Sega. Their infighting was too toxic.

 

[Chastten]

There was no saving SEGA anymore by 2001. All the money in the world wouldn't have been able to keep them in the console business because nobody wanted to buy their consoles.

Hell, even Microsoft themselves, one of the biggest corporations in the world is facing the same issues right now as SEGA did 20 something years ago, and Microsoft has never messed up as badly as SEGA did. The Xbox One, even though it failed miserably, was a runaway success compared to the Saturn and the Dreamcast. And look how much trouble Microsoft has right now to even stay somewhat relevant, let alone win any kind of console war.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Except for the 360, so was Microsoft's consoles, and that would have failed due to rrod if they didn't have the backing of Microsoft. Only difference is they could afford to lose billions.

The difference between the two is night and day in console sales, with Xbox easily selling far more units. Even in regards to games, Dreamcast was trying to skate by on arcade ports, and a few original titles that no one cared about.

Sega ran its course by 2001.

 

[Unknown?]

The difference between the two is night and day in console sales, with Xbox easily selling far more units. Even in regards to games, Dreamcast was trying to skate by on arcade ports, and a few original titles that no one cared about.

Sega ran its course by 2001.

Doesn't matter, they both would have failed despite sells. Only Nintendo could survive such low sells because they sell hardware at a profit.

 

[Fatal Chuck Yeager]

If it's already 2001, then there's no money at Sega so unless the person in this situation is a multi-billionaire that likes taking risks Sega ain't being saved in 2001 lol rofl.

 

[Alexios]

Buy Sony, shut it down.

 

[Varteras]

Invest in Amazon.

 

[SHA]

Don't pull Sony out of the equation, that's not fair, we know what they did.

 

[cartman414]

Sega have themselves to blame from the damage the 32x and Saturn did, much less the Sega CD....as a result Dreamcast was on borrowed time from day one

The 32x maybe, but not so much the Saturn (unless we're including the rushed US launch). They had too many hands in too many pots at the time.

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

Is this thread a honeypot for Eddie/Voost/whoever is our obsessed resident Sega hater?

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Microsoft, and it’s not even close. Sega would have squandered the investment money and merely delayed the inevitable. The Dreamcast existed by the graces of Isao Okawa, and their hardware doors shuttered when he passed away.

God bless Isao Okawa.

 

[L*][*N*K]

Put all my money into Nintendo and wait for the Wii and DS to drop

 

[wondermega]

100% love Sega and their history but there was no way they were going to be able to survive in the console market beyond what they did. Saturn and DC were both failures following what success they had with Genesis, had they gone a more psOne route I would have given them more of a chance. Not sure where their biggest problems were, but I'm going to guess it was always going to be an East vs West issue (whereas Nintendo and Sony never seemed to have it anywhere near as badly, as far as "fighting over who is running the show.")

At the time (late 90s, early aughts) I'd never have expected MS to get to the highs they would, with console, but in hindsight since their peak (360, which has been awhile ago now) they've been kind of running around in circles not terribly sure of what to do as well. Unlike Sega they have impossibly deep pockets and are hell bent on playing this longer than long game, so I guess no matter what they will simply win by attrition.

 

[Drell]

I'd rather see what Sega could have offered us in the instead of supplrting the trillion dollars mega corporation.

 

[Havoc2049]

Buy Sega, sell Sega to Microsoft and release the Xbox under the Sega name in Japan. Finish the Shenmue saga with Microsoft's deep pockets. Launch Xbox Live day one with the console and add online multiplayer to Halo CE, Project Gotham Racing and Dead or Alive 3. Add Phantasy Star Online Ep. I & II as an Xbox launch title.

 

[genesisblock]

I like playing RPG's and trying multiple scenarios so here's what I'll do in this alternative universe. First, I will properly create a core-tech team like SONY's ICE team. Second, we will work with Unreal Engine and simultaneously develop our own in-house by learning the limitations of the engine. Third, every franchise that reached the end of the console cycle will have their licenses opened up to everyone allowing fan-remakes and even fan-sequels while SEGA acts as the official distributor. To save cost, we will partner with Nvidia/Intel and make a special arrangement for flexible technology that is simple to use for our devs, and easy to be backwards compatible to be added to our libraries in every successive generation.

I would not go head-to-head with SONY or Nintendo as they are the dominant in the market but slowly have partnerships with PC platforms with the exception of handhelds just to tease the companies that we are in the market to be bought but officially, we want to observer how their platform fanbase react to our IP's, then we make our moves for the next gen.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Doesn't matter, they both would have failed despite sells. Only Nintendo could survive such low sells because they sell hardware at a profit.

Both would’ve failed? I have great news for you, Xbox is still around. They just had a bangin’ showcase. Check it out.

 

[TLZ]

SEGA. All. Day. Every. Day.

 

[Krappadizzle]

Sega had to die for Microsoft to fly.

Maaannnn, when that Dreamcast launched... Such a great and underappreciated system. I still wish Sega was in the console market simply for competitions sake, but I've really appreciated what Microsoft has done over the years for the console space and would keep everything the same if I had to I guess.

 

[mako]

Microsoft. Wouldn't have the same early Forza/Halo games, or Project Gotham Racing.

 

[Koenigssee]

> Invest in elsewhere (Apple) waiting for Microsoft to stumble.
> Buy buy buy.
> Take over Microsoft.
> Secretly start developing Freelancer 2. Design the ships, planets, features, gameplay.
> Hire top composers from all around the world who hadn't making their name known back then.
> Pluck top writers from BioWare before they made SWTOR, from Obsidian after Bethesda fcked them over Fallout New Vegas.
> Develop the story.
> Waiting for Chris Roberts to announce Star Citizen Kickstarter.
> Ironing out the bugs.
> Drop the trailer right after Chris had reached the historic milestone.
> Release the game. Do it for the fans.
> Cash out and buy a Porsche to flex on 'ol Bill.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Sega, they innovated a lot more and brought a lot more good stuff to the industry that Microsoft ever has.

Sega fans are another level of delusional, as we can see here.

That’s why i wouldn’t invest in Sega, I wouldn’t touch them even with a ten foot pole. It’s a dead end.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Sega, they innovated a lot more and brought a lot more good stuff to the industry that Microsoft ever has.

And nobody gave a shit about any of it.

 

[acm2000]

there was no saving sega, the writing had been on the wall since the end of the megadrives life.

 

[Doctor Hades]

Save SEGA and release Dreamcast 2!!! Microsoft don't deserve to be saved. Sorry.

 

[Unknown?]

Both would’ve failed? I have great news for you, Xbox is still around. They just had a bangin’ showcase. Check it out.

I think my point went over your head. They wouldn't have even made it to the 360 if they weren't a massive company backing it. All Xbox consoles would have killed a smaller company.

The sentiment here is that Sega would have died with tons of cash anyway but if Xbox was ran by a smaller company it would have died right away. It was the massive amount of cash that kept it alive, so I don't see why Sega would be any different if they could afford to lose billions.

Dreamcast only lasted 2 years but if it had lasted 5 years it could have reached GameCube/Xbox numbers or close and the losses wouldn't have mattered just like it didn't matter how many billions Xbox lost.

 

[Horseganador]

I would put the dough in Sony, Sega was drowning in debt and xbox was a bottomless pit of money.

 

[RAIDEN1]

The 32x maybe, but not so much the Saturn (unless we're including the rushed US launch). They had too many hands in too many pots at the time.

The Saturn was a bad idea from the get-go...there was no unity in the company to make a success of it.. even Tom Kalinske could see it was doomed to flop....it struggled to get a decent Sonic game...and Sega were fortunate that Japan still loved the world of 2d circa 1998 otherwise without doubt it would have been a global flop...

 

[Trunx81]

Buy Sega.
Transform every beloved franchise into Pachinko.
Rename the company in "Konami".
And here we are today.

 

[MagnesD3]

Oh Sega for sure, they could actually be something, they have the ip to back up a console they would just have to up the quality like crazy with more talent (no more bad Sonic games ever again). Microsoft have the ip but I would have to change what game pass is and it would cause a big mess, the Sega one imo is more realistic. You also have a foothold in the Japanese Market.

Just look at this IP that they could work with make strong and exclusive

Sonic
Super Monkey Ball
Jet Set Radio
Shining Force
Like a Dragon
Bayonetta
Alex Kidd
Altered Beast
Chu Chu Rocket
Crazy Taxi
Condemned
Shin Megami Tensei
Persona
Etrian Odyssey
Ecco the Dolphin
Golden Axe
Gunstar Heroes
House of the Dead
Nights
Panzer Dragoon
Puyo Puyo
Phantasy Star
Sakura Wars
Samba De Amingo
Shinobu
Shenmue
Space Channel 5
Streets if Rage
Toe Jam and Earl
Total War
Valkerie Chronicles
Virtua Fighter
Trauma Center

 

[MiguelItUp]

Dreamcast was so ahead of its time IMO, and SEGA has a ton of IPs that people still recognize and love. I feel like on paper the Dreamcast had some really cool ideas and setup, more so than the Xbox and PS2. It's just a shame that everything went down the way it did. I would've loved to have seen what they would've been capable of with a Dreamcast 2 or whatever console could've come after that. Taking the things that made the Dreamcast successful and improve on them, etc.

I don't hate Microsoft whatsoever, and of course I think they've done well over the years. But where we're at now, I feel like they're still struggling to find their own IPs and exclusives. Whereas SEGA has a treasure trove of IPs we haven't seen in awhile that people would love to see more of, but they're hardly being utilized.

 

[Chronicle]

I'd invest in Apple.

 

[kvltus lvlzvs]

Three words

Sonic dating sims

 

[Roronoa Zoro]

Sega easy. Just to keep MS out and leave more third party companies

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Anyone with investor money in their pockets would be better to avoid Sega at all costs. Aside from Genesis and arcade games, the rest of their consoles, handhelds, peripheral gadgets, CD add-on, Nomad, CDX, that Sega Pico fisher price kind of toy etc... all bombed. They had zero focus. Any money they got they threw it at the millionth gadget they had in R&D.

It wasnt a money issue. Dreamcast was a pretty good system. Rock solid 3D gaming for a console. It was pretty close to model 3. Problem is they lacked tons of third party games from companies who avoided them like the plague. I dont think any investor money would solve that.

From what I remember, these key game makers made either zero DC games or only released a handful.

- Konami
- Square
- Namco
- EA

Its got to be the only mainstream console ever lacking this kind of support. Typically third party game makers will jumped on board every console to get sales. When these companies are avoiding Sega you know there's issues. Hell, EA even made N-Gage games.

 

[Soodanim]

Dude, I'm not shitting on your idea; I'm critiquing it. Don't read it so negatively because it's not worded in a negative tone.

How is it realistic to expect Microsoft to change their focus even if I invest all my money with SEGA?

You're fine with time travel and magically giving one forum poster hundreds of millions, but that's where you draw the line?

Not sure how that's not shitting on the idea, it's all hypothetical and not intended to be more than a bit of fun

 

[EverydayBeast]

It’s agreed sega had to go, everybody, the entire gaming community knows this.

 

[Rentahamster]

You're fine with time travel and magically giving one forum poster hundreds of millions, but that's where you draw the line?

Uh, the thought experiment doesn't work at all if I don't do that, so I have to accept that in order to engage with the topic. This is known as me being charitable for the sake of argument in order to have a conversation.

Not sure how that's not shitting on the idea, it's all hypothetical and not intended to be more than a bit of fun

I'll explain how this is not shitting on the idea. It's not shitting on the idea because I did not denigrate the premise unnecessarily negatively, nor did I insult the idea nor the character of the person proposing the idea.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I'm saving Sega.

 

[Soodanim]

Uh, the thought experiment doesn't work at all if I don't do that, so I have to accept that in order to engage with the topic. This is known as me being charitable for the sake of argument in order to have a conversation.


I'll explain how this is not shitting on the idea. It's not shitting on the idea because I did not denigrate the premise unnecessarily negatively, nor did I insult the idea nor the character of the person proposing the idea.

Hamster's two choices:

1. Go against everything he believes in and have a bit of fun
2. Try and fail to not be a miserable ballbag

I'll say it again, it's a hypothetical situation and none of it is possible anyway, so why is time travel fine but Microsoft being deterred by Sega's presence somehow worse?

Just fucking choose one you grumpy rodent fuck

 

[Rentahamster]

Hamster's two choices:

1. Go against everything he believes in and have a bit of fun
2. Try and fail to not be a miserable ballbag

But I am having fun!

I'll say it again, it's a hypothetical situation and none of it is possible anyway, so why is time travel fine but Microsoft being deterred by Sega's presence somehow worse?

I already explained that to you earlier. I will explain again. The purpose of this thought experiment is to ponder about a "what-if" scenario if SEGA was granted a second chance. The purpose of this thought experiment is NOT to ponder about the possibility of time travel and spontaneous money. Therefore, in order to talk about the SEGA "what if" scenario, I have to accept that yes, I am in 2001, and yes, I am a top investor, as per the OP's post.

In fact, it is erroneous to actually frame the issue as "being okay with time travel", as you say, because we're not actually travelling back in time. We're just thinking about the past, which does not require time travel.

What I am trying to do, is encourage the OP to flesh out his or her thoughts more because how does my investment into SEGA discourage Microsoft from entering the console market? Even if someone had given SEGA a second lease on life, Microsoft would probably have still done what they did, regardless of what SEGA is doing. Therefore, the thought experiment essentially becomes "would you have preferred SEGA be the counterpoint to Sony and Nintendo rather than Microsoft?".

This is called a good faith discussion, and not being grumpy!

 

[yurinka]

I'd have saved Sega requiring them to make some changes to do things right:

• Grow first party development to have a bigger focus on the most popular Sega IPs: a 2D Sonic, a Street Fighter III like pixel art Streets of Rage 4 and new Golden Axe, Afterburner Climax/Black Falcon, Out Run 2, and both Crazy Taxi 3, Sega Rally 3 and Daytona USA 2 with a proper career mode, not that focused on short play sessions
• Big investment to bring back 3rd parties: sign more great 3rd party exclusives like the ones they got with Capcom, plus also ensure EA, Activision, Take 2, Bandai Namco and/or Square Enix properly supports it with at least some of their major games like FIFA, CoD, GTA, Tekken or Final Fantasy
• Proper aggresive marketing campaign highlighting the areas where Dreamcast was better than the competition and also its best games

 

[Soodanim]

But I am having fun!


I already explained that to you earlier. I will explain again. The purpose of this thought experiment is to ponder about a "what-if" scenario if SEGA was granted a second chance. The purpose of this thought experiment is NOT to ponder about the possibility of time travel and spontaneous money. Therefore, in order to talk about the SEGA "what if" scenario, I have to accept that yes, I am in 2001, and yes, I am a top investor, as per the OP's post.

In fact, it is erroneous to actually frame the issue as "being okay with time travel", as you say, because we're not actually travelling back in time. We're just thinking about the past, which does not require time travel.

What I am trying to do, is encourage the OP to flesh out his or her thoughts more because how does my investment into SEGA discourage Microsoft from entering the console market? Even if someone had given SEGA a second lease on life, Microsoft would probably have still done what they did, regardless of what SEGA is doing. Therefore, the thought experiment essentially becomes "would you have preferred SEGA be the counterpoint to Sony and Nintendo rather than Microsoft?".

This is called a good faith discussion, and not being grumpy!

I hate you.

 

[Rentahamster]

I hate you.

Are you having a bad day?

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

not sure money couldve saved sega

 

[Soodanim]

Are you having a bad day?

I choose Microsoft, because Xinput thanks to the 360 controller standardised controller input on PC and that was a mess beforehand. It's a selfish reason, but this thread isn't about altruism.

That said, it might have been interesting to have a third Japanese-based company in the mix. I wonder how things would have played out without the Gears of Wars and Halos we got..

 

[Rentahamster]

Xinput thanks to the 360 controller standardised controller input on PC and that was a mess beforehand.

This was one of the best things to happen to PC gaming in the last 20 years.

 

[Soodanim]

This was one of the best things to happen to PC gaming in the last 20 years.

I wonder if even Steam Input would have existed in its current form without it. Without that stable base to build upon, I'm not sure how much of the PC gaming push still happens. Convenience is key, after all.

 

[Rentahamster]

I wonder if even Steam Input would have existed in its current form without it. Without that stable base to build upon, I'm not sure how much of the PC gaming push still happens. Convenience is key, after all.

We still would have gotten it somehow. It was a huge problem. Someone would have noticed and fixed it eventually.

 

[cartman414]

The Saturn was a bad idea from the get-go...there was no unity in the company to make a success of it.. even Tom Kalinske could see it was doomed to flop....it struggled to get a decent Sonic game...and Sega were fortunate that Japan still loved the world of 2d circa 1998 otherwise without doubt it would have been a global flop...

It was unsuccessful in the West, true. But it's not like it was the main reason Sega went bust. It was the death of a million cuts.