TheRedRiders
Member
I've been on this site long enough to know
Gaiff
is primarily a PC gamer (a vocal one too) who owns a 4090. Just injecting that in their in case people want to dismiss his criticism as bad faith.
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It's 2023, the Bethesda defense shouldn't exist anymore
- Thread starter Gaiff
- Start date
I've been on this site long enough to know
Gaiff
is primarily a PC gamer (a vocal one too) who owns a 4090. Just injecting that in their in case people want to dismiss his criticism as bad faith.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Imagine having less sense than AI:
MS is now rewriting AI as we speak.
Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yeah AI can't be this smart. They'll use Timdog and other goons as reference material now.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
lol Can you please ask chatgpt to list reasons why spiderman 2 shoukdnt be goty?
Bo_Hazem
Banned
ChatGPT would glitch.
Morrie’s wig shop
Member
You gotta show us your clips, your personal clips of this so called bad gunplay.
Because, surely if your experiencing this bad gunplay you would’ve recorded it to show the world right.
R6Rider
Gold Member
You can just get into any shootout with the generic pirate/raiders and that should get you the same results. The AI will probably be in the exact same spot and a high chance in the exact same outpost that my footage would be.
Do you you also need footage of the terrible AI?
Morrie’s wig shop
Member
Just waiting on you to present your personal clipsYou can just get into any shootout with the generic pirate/raiders and that should get you the same results. The AI will probably be in the exact same spot and a high chance in the exact same outpost that my footage would be.
Do you you also need footage of the terrible AI?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
We already have it in the thread. Only thing missing is bad gunplay footage.
R6Rider
Gold Member
It's in the same footage.
ClosBSAS
Member
and we do and they are...just cause you dont like starfield doesnt mean they are not being held to a standard. you know jedi surivvor is still a shitty ass port, plenty of games are in much worse condition than what starfield launched in AND the fact that no one can make an rpg like bethesda is very very clear. starfield with all its issues its a much better game and more fun to play than most games out there. sounds more like a fanboy post trying to bash a studio that has a reputation of doing things the way they do and have been for years.
its like todd said once when ppl complained about all the skyrim versions..."STOP BUYING THEM".
no one did. i wonder why.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What part/time?
Sir Vilhelm
Member
OP smoking crack, this game is fun as hell
JTCx
Member
All of it.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
So you have no arguments. Got it.
JTCx
Member
Don't get mad at me because the game has bad combat.
Ribi
Member
Star citizen actually.. and that's a MP game
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I am only mad at the game for having bad combat, but the discussion is about gunplay.
BlackTron
Member
Creation was based on Gamebryo which is from 1997...even if the guys that made it then were still around, who knows if they care, are still in the industry, or have outdated skills. If you were highly experienced and doing your best work in 97 there's a good chance you are retired, cranky or set in your ways by now. But hey at least BGS isn't GameFreak
R6Rider
Gold Member
Buggy Loop
Member
I was critical of Starfield initially and brought up Star citizen, you can probably find it in my posts, but
I booted Star Citizen like a few days ago to see the persistence patch and how it was on servers...
It's not up to par. NPCs in the city, all of them were standing on chairs somehow. I go on a planet, someone bugged the quest because their fucking ship blocks the path. Persistence... in a multiplayer game, might not have been that good of an idea.. I'm not sure where it will go from there. Interesting tech, needs major work.
People shouldn't be buying half finished shoddy games in 2023 any more either but they do.
Really insane to buy one again from the same company and complain.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I have no problem with Starfield. I didn't buy it. So I don't get any bugs and shoddiness. Obviously the market is one where people don't care as much as I do about that stuff.
Really insane to buy one again from the same company and complain.
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I have no problem with Starfield. I didn't buy it. So I don't get any bugs and shoddiness. Obviously the market is one where people don't care as much as I do about that stuff.
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R6Rider
Gold Member
Windom Earle
Member
While I agree that Rockstar kicks Bethesda into the dump tech wise, they are in a similar trajectory when it comes to gameplay. Their mission designed has barely changed since GTA3. If GTA6 still does the same shit RDR2 does, it will be a massive disappointment.
BacklashWave534
Member
Dude, grow up. People can like and defend whatever they want. Here is a shocker for you. I'm actually having a good time playing Starfield. I also think Fallout 76 is a great game now. I bet your head just exploded lol.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
I wrote a thread 3 years ago noting that Bethesda was falling behind on tech, animations and action gameplay. They really cant compete with some of the newer large open world action games in terms of slick gameplay or animations. Their only hope is to keep going more hardcore on RPG elements and try and have good writing. Those are things they could still compete in regardless of the state of their engine.
Turns out that's pretty much what they did with Starfield. Feels way more like playing Morrowind than their more recent games. More hardcore. More depth. Less casual, with less guidance and tutorial elements. The quests and writing are also a large step up from their previous games. Voice acting is a large step up from anything they've ever done, with consistently high quality and a ton more vocal variety. They picked the perfect subject matter because being an astronaut, you really don't need to move around like it's Devil May Cry. So they pretty much delivered on exactly what I expected them to, to make a great game. Fallout in space, but more emphasis on the RPG side. That's what it is.
They exceeded my expectations in 4 areas I wasn't expecting. 1) The gunplay. I didn't realize that they could actually compete if they focused on guns and making it a FPS. It fits pretty well with their gameplay style and it really works much better than I expected. Some of the later guns you get are some of my favorite I've ever used in a game. It's nothing revolutionary that reinvents a FPS, but they look cool as hell, they feel good, and they have lots of variety. 2) Graphics are uneven, like a game made over a very long period of time. But when they are on point, their lighting and texture quality is a gigantic step up from anything they've done previously. 3) The art design is some of the best I've ever seen in a game. You can really tell how inspired they were creating the world, the factions, the logos, the architecture, ship design, the clothing and gun models, the mechanical engineering NASA punk elements. It's all phenomenal. This even extends to the real life controller and system skin they sell that look great. 4) The OST is the best of the year and far exceeded what I thought possible from Inon Zurr.
I don't need them to ever stop making this kind of game, because they are intelligently leaning into their strengths and making the right calls right now. Elder Scrolls 6 will be very similar to Starfield I'm sure, and that's fine with me. They have really only 1 thing left to actually address to make Elder Scrolls 6 phenomenal. Find a way to improve the melee combat as much as they improved the gunplay in Starfield. Do that, keep leaning harder into the RPG depth even more, keep striving for incrementally better writing, and they will have a huge hit on their hands again.
The last thing I'm worried about is a few janky animations or 1-2 second load times. Sure, it would be nice if they weren't there but it literally doesn't impact me at all. Starfield is a phenomenal game. I think I'm at about 90 hours and I still haven't done any of the Faction quests, most of the main quest, and I've only visited 26 out of 100 solar systems. And every day I can't wait to get home to keep playing. I can see some flaws, but that is not preventing me from really, really enjoying it and from ranking the game extremely highly. The day I ask anyone on here for permission to like a game is the day I delete my account. Really unbelievably arrogant to try and tell everyone else what they should like. Get over yourselves.
Turns out that's pretty much what they did with Starfield. Feels way more like playing Morrowind than their more recent games. More hardcore. More depth. Less casual, with less guidance and tutorial elements. The quests and writing are also a large step up from their previous games. Voice acting is a large step up from anything they've ever done, with consistently high quality and a ton more vocal variety. They picked the perfect subject matter because being an astronaut, you really don't need to move around like it's Devil May Cry. So they pretty much delivered on exactly what I expected them to, to make a great game. Fallout in space, but more emphasis on the RPG side. That's what it is.
They exceeded my expectations in 4 areas I wasn't expecting. 1) The gunplay. I didn't realize that they could actually compete if they focused on guns and making it a FPS. It fits pretty well with their gameplay style and it really works much better than I expected. Some of the later guns you get are some of my favorite I've ever used in a game. It's nothing revolutionary that reinvents a FPS, but they look cool as hell, they feel good, and they have lots of variety. 2) Graphics are uneven, like a game made over a very long period of time. But when they are on point, their lighting and texture quality is a gigantic step up from anything they've done previously. 3) The art design is some of the best I've ever seen in a game. You can really tell how inspired they were creating the world, the factions, the logos, the architecture, ship design, the clothing and gun models, the mechanical engineering NASA punk elements. It's all phenomenal. This even extends to the real life controller and system skin they sell that look great. 4) The OST is the best of the year and far exceeded what I thought possible from Inon Zurr.
I don't need them to ever stop making this kind of game, because they are intelligently leaning into their strengths and making the right calls right now. Elder Scrolls 6 will be very similar to Starfield I'm sure, and that's fine with me. They have really only 1 thing left to actually address to make Elder Scrolls 6 phenomenal. Find a way to improve the melee combat as much as they improved the gunplay in Starfield. Do that, keep leaning harder into the RPG depth even more, keep striving for incrementally better writing, and they will have a huge hit on their hands again.
The last thing I'm worried about is a few janky animations or 1-2 second load times. Sure, it would be nice if they weren't there but it literally doesn't impact me at all. Starfield is a phenomenal game. I think I'm at about 90 hours and I still haven't done any of the Faction quests, most of the main quest, and I've only visited 26 out of 100 solar systems. And every day I can't wait to get home to keep playing. I can see some flaws, but that is not preventing me from really, really enjoying it and from ranking the game extremely highly. The day I ask anyone on here for permission to like a game is the day I delete my account. Really unbelievably arrogant to try and tell everyone else what they should like. Get over yourselves.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Are all these posts and threads real or is it actually people just really, really trying to convince themselves they don't need a gaming PC or series x?
Just buy a pc...
Or...stream the game?
Just buy a pc...
Or...stream the game?
FlyyGOD
Member
Game is great on consoles so just stop with the nonsense.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Yeah graphics are good aside from some bad characters and terrible/no hdr.I dont know what game you are playing but they have done a great job improving both the graphics and first person combat. Combat might not be on par with say Doom, but it is leagues ahead of what they had in fallout 3 and fallout 4. I personally miss VATS but realtime combat is not bad at all. Combat is punchy and fun. What exactly do you want from the combat?
And they have also updated the graphics engine. It is one of the best looking games out there. Inconsistent sure, but 90% of it is procedurally generated. Realtime time of day and the downgrade from as early as E3 2023 doesnt help. But aside from the somewhat dated bethesda quest design, i am not sure what is wrong with either the graphics or gunplay that deserves to be criticized, let alone defended. Maybe they shipped a shitty version on xbox. but its fine on PC.
Go ahead and knock them for dated quest design, robotic dialogue sequences, unmemorable side characters, ridiculous menu driven space travel, useless planet exploration, and just a very disjointed feeling world, but can we stop with the fucking hyperbole. not everything about this game is dated. the visuals are not dated. the combat is not dated. they physics are straight up next gen. the game CAN be fun when it gets out of its own way and lets you go on a long mission.
i get that its fun to hate the game right now, and i personally think its no more than a 7/10, but we are shitting on its graphics and gunplay now? the only strengths this game has. what are we even doing?
The game got way worse problems than graphics
Destruction-1002
Member
Most games on PS4 ran at 30fps as standard
However on 7th gen, games ran poorly with screen tearing over the place even at 1152x640p.
So 30fps was good enough for PS4, as it impossible to find games with screen tearing.
polybius80
Member
what are you talking about? what you are describing is each scene in the game have a list of objects and a container have a list of items on it that is nothing new, each planet location is a scene you have a file with information of each character and list of items in that scene and its location and if you bring a new one from the inventory its added to the scene, that is common in games, how else you think a container remember what is inside it?, an indie game: "empyrion" does that and have a galaxy procedural generated where you can move your ship in an out of planets and move around to whenever you want and land whereve you want even upside down in the top of a mountain just for ti to fall when you turn off engines and is not a glorified teleport in fact you require to make a jumps to a sun or a star and then make a small jump to planets in that solar system with another type of fuel and that ship is made to the last piece by the player and you can modify the scenario, dig holes, destroy a mountain, make a hole in an asteroid yourself or with your ship, mine resources, etc and that stays in the planet/space, when you enter/exit from space there is a transition of course but you enter or exit the planet you appear in the correct place based from where you was and you dont go a map screen and click in the next planet to appear there on a predesignated landing spot, oh and its multiplayer too
I am not saying starfield is bad, far from it, but it is by comments like yours that there was false expectations about starfield, I myself believed I was going to be able to move the ship to wherever I want and land on whatever part of the planet like empyrion but not even close, you guys talk big about starfield and very easily say "no game do that" or "no game do that in that scale" or "you can land anywhere you want" knowing that is not true and there are spots where the ship will appear, I dont know if you guys are trying to hype the game based on misinformation and lies or have little to no idea of what games are out there and what you can do on them
Windom Earle
Member
People who think that the gunplay is good are insane.
Every gun is hitscan ffs.
Every gun is hitscan ffs.
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OceanGaming
Member
NetImmerse/Gamebryo wasn't their own engine in the first place, they just acquired the rights to use it. Then Gamebryo turned into Creation and it turned into CE2. They weren't there at the beginning.
What they require is NOT "le switch to Unreal Engine", they need their own Decima, completely from the ground up. And i'm afraid they don't have those capable Engine Engineers in the house.
alucard0712_rus
Gold Member
Edit: nevermind
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
People who think that the gunplay is good are insane.
Every gun is hitscan ffs.
Thanks for the laughs posting aim assisted dual sticks gameplay.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
anthraticus
Banned
Bethestards always gonna Bethestard
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Agreed. And thats why in my post i listed virtually all of these things they should and HAVE been getting criticized for. But graphics and gunplay arent one of them.
Agreed again. This is why I am so harsh on Spiderman which has worse character models, lighting, level of detail and overall fidelity than Horizon Forbidden West and even TLOU2 in some aspect. Simply inexcusable. Good to see I will have you by my side the next time I criticize Spiderman 2 for its visuals. Im counting on you.
Is this from the XSS or XSX versions? Doesnt look like the graphics im seeing.Apart from lighting, which makes the indoor environments look good, the visuals are clearly dated. In the following photos, you can see low-poly texture and quality, poor environmental details, low-poly environment assets, inaccurate shadows, poor facial models of NPCs, etc.
Punished Miku
you are playing on xbox right? does the game really look this bad?These are all my screenshots from the PC version:
Yes, it's inconsistent like all open world games including the best looking game out right now called HFW. But this:
Come on dude, how do you see those gifs above and in my post on the first page and complain about the asset quality, shadows, and textures? Shit is top notch.
XSX version is missing shadows in some areas in New Atlantis. Its a bug probably because DF found that they were set to high which is what i have them set at.
The combat is definitely dated. While it is significantly better than Bethesda's previous titles, there is nothing next-gen about it. It is a bullet-sponge, non-accurate combat system with no recoils and where bullets home-in artificially.
Ignore the hyperbole and meta-commentary in the following video, but look at the video when he talks about "no recoil" how the bullets sway artificially. How is this not dated?
Starfield's COMBAT is AWFUL🤢 #starfield #shorts #bethesda
Starfield's COMBAT is AWFUL🤢 #starfield #shorts #bethesdawww.youtube.com
Dude ive been playing the game for the last two weeks. almost 30 hours in. Combat is not dated. I dont know wtf these dudes are smoking. the guns are fun to shoot. Combat could use more biotic abilities a la mass effect, but you are not going to convince me that combat is not fun because I am literally playing it and having fun. And as someone with over 2000 hours in destiny, 400 hours in battlefield 1, over a 1000 hours in various cod games, hundreds more in MAG, SOCOM, Resistance, and Killzone. I think i know a thing or two about good FPS combat.
First of all, Starfield has better physics overall than RDR2. This should not even be a discussion. What you are seeing here are falling ANIMATIONS. the game uses ragdoll physics just like all rockstar games dating back to 2008. Starfield devs shouldve probably added some better falling animations, but to use this one aspect to judge the game's physics is retarded.
Whats next? should i shit on RDR2 because it doesnt let you pull every pickable object in a room with your gravity powers? Or because it doesnt have object persistence? Its one of the many disingenuous comparisons floating around for starfield. I can promise you horizon, spiderman, gow ragnorak, and 99% of other games that dont use ragdoll physics will fail the same test if you put it up against RDR2's falling ANIMATIONS.
What's funny about that video is that Starfield's strengths come acrosss immediately due to the stunning Realtime GI producing way better lighting than THE BEST LOOKING game of last gen. RDR2 has better draw distance and rock quality, but Starfield had that as early as E3 2023 before it downgraded even for PC. I blame Phil spencer but there is no doubt that Starfield is literally a generation ahead in terms of lighting from the very video created to mock it. Ironic.
Want to criticize Starfield for its downgrade to outdoor geometry and draw distance? Im game. I HATE it. But lets try and give the game its due. especially when its doing so many great things.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
I can't see it at work. I'll check it out later today when I get home. I've played it mostly on XSX, but also played several hours on XSS.Is this from the XSS or XSX versions? Doesnt look like the graphics im seeing.
Most twitter, pics, or video is blocked for me.
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Iced Arcade
Member
They are doing something right. Never seen so many people talk about a game they never played.
docchicken
Member
Makes it simpler to understand why the defense force is so determined when you examine how they accuse everyone of being a Sony fanboy. Even on Steam, they were accusing critics of being playstation fanboys.I've been on this site long enough to know
Just injecting that in their in case people want to dismiss his criticism as bad faith.
CoreyFlawless
Member
True, they like pretty much the only ones that do it. I don’t believe it easy to build a game like there’s either. There the only ones for the most part
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Going by Steam reviews, the defense force has dwindled compared to what it was a decade ago. Shows the gaming climate has changed and what they now expect.
The majority of the new defense noise ratio is tied to platform wars.
The majority of the new defense noise ratio is tied to platform wars.
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CoreyFlawless
Member
True. But shit. Game needs to release. Thought bout trying it out during the testing thing they had. Isn’t there a way to play it now if u already invested in it? Or it just come and go? To me, it kinda a game I waiting for. I get a Bethesda type game with Eve online mixer crap in it. Like this could be one hell of a game
YeulEmeralda
Member
People can also hate and criticise whatever they want. Funny how that works.
theclaw135
Banned
I've been on this site long enough to know
Just injecting that in their in case people want to dismiss his criticism as bad faith.
4090 owners are right to feel their hardware should be the baseline tech.
I keep saying it. If you want better quality games, advocate for steeper minimum requirements.
Leave the mobile and console spinoffs to other developers.