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[IntentionalPun]

It's a nice looking game; a bit inconsistent, but honestly the graphics are pretty good to me.

Also just not my biggest priority; I am really enjoying the gameplay of Starfield (although I have some complaints too), most importantly.

I'll get 100s of hours out of the game. Most of the best looking games aren't anywhere near as replayable, their graphics aren't really doing me any good on that front.

 

[Jigsaah]

No, I'm acting like Bethesda is a premier AAA developer and not some mid-tier studio like they were 18 years ago. We should treat them as such.

Curious as to the point where they transitioned to a premiere AAA studio in your opinion? What game was the mark of Bethesda's evolution?

 

[BennyBlanco]

Going by Steam reviews, the defense force has dwindled compared to what it was a decade ago. Shows the gaming climate has changed and what they now expect.

The majority of the new defense noise ratio is tied to platform wars.

And it’s just a huge coincidence that same handful of people who have been coping for years in the abk thread are desperately trying to paint Starfield as a huge flop that sucks.

 

[DeepEnigma]

And it’s just a huge coincidence that same handful of people who have been coping for years in the abk thread are desperately trying to paint Starfield as a huge flop that sucks.

Who's doing that? Name names.

Steam reviews going down and other delayed reviews coincidently by MS giving them review keys late (or almost not at all until Eurogamer said something) was literally being blamed on PS fans by Xbox fans. Prior to this Bethesda purchase, no such blame game would have happened.

 

[theclaw135]

No, I'm acting like Bethesda is a premier AAA developer and not some mid-tier studio like they were 18 years ago. We should treat them as such.

Sure, Jan. Bethdesda's games are so glitchy the world's entire collective modding community hasn't been able to transform them into premier AAA titles.

 

[damidu]

Yeah sorry SlimySnake

ChatGPT just doesn't like Starfield

lol chat gpt already passing your standard console shill confirmed.
these people really should be afraid of losing their jobs.

if you think about it it’ll probably do better job than spencer as well, pretty difficult to do worse anyway.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Who's doing that? Name names.

I just looked at your post history and the first page is literally all Starfield. For a game youre not playing (I would assume) you sure do like to discuss it. Nothing wrong with that but to say anyone defending Starfield is in the name of console wars is an absurd case of throwing stones from a glass house. If it was multiplat would you be thís invested in discussing a game you’re not playing?

 

[DeepEnigma]

I just looked at your post history and the first page is literally all Starfield. For a game youre not playing (I would assume) you sure do like to discuss it. Nothing wrong with that but to say anyone defending Starfield is in the name of console wars is an absurd case of throwing stones from a glass house. If it was multiplat would you be thís invested in discussing a game you’re not playing?

Once again...

And it’s just a huge coincidence that same handful of people who have been coping for years in the abk thread are desperately trying to paint Starfield as a huge flop that sucks.

Who's doing that? Name names.

Find a post of mine doing what you posted in this thread. You now want to make this about me? Find a post, and I will wait. Otherwise, project up your own ass. This is a gaming forum, and topics will be discussed.

I stand by my statement.

Steam reviews going down and other delayed reviews coincidently by MS giving them review keys late (or almost not at all until Eurogamer said something) was literally being blamed on PS fans by Xbox fans. Prior to this Bethesda purchase, no such blame game would have happened.

There are literal shills and fans podcasts blaming PS fans for bad reviews. Shit is retarded. This would not be the case prior to the purchase.

 

[Windom Earle]

Much next gen boys

 

[BennyBlanco]

Once again...



Find a post of mine doing what you posted in this thread. You now want to make this about me? Find a post, and I will wait. Otherwise, project up your own ass. This is a gaming forum, and topics will be discussed.

I stand by my statement.

There are literal shills and fans podcasts blaming PS fans for bad reviews. Shit is retarded. This would not be the case prior to the purchase.

So in other words, you’re not even gonna try to argue that if this was multiplat you would be talking about it this much. But Starfield enjoyers only like it because of console wars. Got it.

 

[In Cold Blood]

8 years in development and supposedly a budget in excess of $200M, so why are we still seeing posts such as "Bethesda games never had good graphics." "Bethesda games never had great gunplay." or any of those archaic defenses?

If it were 2007 with Oblivion, I'd wholeheartedly agree with and back those statements but this is 2023 and Bethesda is one of the biggest 1st-party studios backed by one of the richest corporations in the world. Why are we still holding them to the same standards as we did back in 2007? RDR2 apparently spent around 8 years in development as well and came out 5 years ago on much weaker machines so why does it look better than Starfield?

Other studios have since massively caught up with Bethesda and they're no longer the undisputed masters of living and breathing open-world games (although I'd argue they're still among the best). Can we please hold them to the same standards we hold every big devs like CD Projekt Red, Rockstar, Naughty Dog, and all the rest? No passes for shitty graphics, terrible animations or subpar combat.

Starfield doesn't have good gun play?
Dude you are just trolling. The gun play is as good as any FPS out there, and was molded by id themselves.
Blatant is blatant

 

[Little Chicken]

Other studios have since massively caught up with Bethesda and they're no longer the undisputed masters of living and breathing open-world games

No other games have the same level of environmental interactivity and freedom as Bethesda's games.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So in other words, you’re not even gonna try to argue that if this was multiplat you would be talking about it this much. But Starfield enjoyers only like it because of console wars. Got it.

I would be talking about it just as much. What are you trying to prove here? This is a you problem projecting exactly the accusations I mentioned above.

Bethesda games have ALWAYS been hot topics. Well before they were purchased.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I keep reading the title of this thread as "It's 2023, Bethesda shouldn't exist anymore"

 

[Balducci30]

Some of the graphics are straight up crazy good in this game. Like the best I’ve seen - the character models are not there tho

 

[docchicken]

So in other words, you’re not even gonna try to argue that if this was multiplat you would be talking about it this much. But Starfield enjoyers only like it because of console wars. Got it.

The other way to interpret that is that if the game was multiplat, a certain squad wouldn't feel the need to defend it so badly. Both suspicions produce the same observation you commented on. Just happens that one of them is more in line with reality. Check steam forums and reddit for example. Everyone's being called a PS fanboy for criticizing it, and in turn, those people are being called out for accusing others.

Anyway, hopefully this is the last console-related comment I'm making for today. Not trying to get banned over corporate worship.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I would be talking about it just as much. What are you trying to prove here?

You: people who like Starfield are console warriors

Also you: have posted about it hundreds of times to paint it in a negative light

I’m not trying to prove anything other than you wouldn’t be so heavily invested in discussing a game you don’t like and aren’t playing if it was multiplat. Let’s say Avatar comes out later this year and gets average reviews. Are you gonna spend hours of your life discussing it? No, you’re obviously not.

And I’m not trying to pick on you there are a ton of people doing this. And there are absolutely people who wouldn’t have cared about Beth games suddenly acting like huge fans. I’m not gonna further derail this topic but the stink of console wars has completely ruined discussion of this game.

 

[StereoVsn]

No other games have the same level of environmental interactivity and freedom as Bethesda's games.

At the same time, Bethesda doesn't have a lot of interactivity beyond object manipulation either. No environmental destruction, no simple things like say sitting at a shop for a bite to eat, no ground vehicles (or air vehicles), and a lot of other things.

They have object persistence, base building and now ship building.

 

[R6Rider]

I would be talking about it just as much. What are you trying to prove here? This is a you problem projecting exactly the accusations I mentioned above.

Bethesda games have ALWAYS been hot topics. Well before they were purchased.

You shouldn't be wasting your time with someone who hides their profile.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You: people who like Starfield are console warriors

Where did I say this?

I never once said this, so stop projecting and lying.

You shouldn't be wasting your time with someone who hides their profile.

Yet searches others. Pathetic.

 

[Punished Miku]

Agreed. And thats why in my post i listed virtually all of these things they should and HAVE been getting criticized for. But graphics and gunplay arent one of them.

Agreed again. This is why I am so harsh on Spiderman which has worse character models, lighting, level of detail and overall fidelity than Horizon Forbidden West and even TLOU2 in some aspect. Simply inexcusable. Good to see I will have you by my side the next time I criticize Spiderman 2 for its visuals. Im counting on you.

Is this from the XSS or XSX versions? Doesnt look like the graphics im seeing. Punished Miku you are playing on xbox right? does the game really look this bad?

These are all my screenshots from the PC version:

Yes, it's inconsistent like all open world games including the best looking game out right now called HFW. But this:

Come on dude, how do you see those gifs above and in my post on the first page and complain about the asset quality, shadows, and textures? Shit is top notch.

XSX version is missing shadows in some areas in New Atlantis. Its a bug probably because DF found that they were set to high which is what i have them set at.


Dude ive been playing the game for the last two weeks. almost 30 hours in. Combat is not dated. I dont know wtf these dudes are smoking. the guns are fun to shoot. Combat could use more biotic abilities a la mass effect, but you are not going to convince me that combat is not fun because I am literally playing it and having fun. And as someone with over 2000 hours in destiny, 400 hours in battlefield 1, over a 1000 hours in various cod games, hundreds more in MAG, SOCOM, Resistance, and Killzone. I think i know a thing or two about good FPS combat.


First of all, Starfield has better physics overall than RDR2. This should not even be a discussion. What you are seeing here are falling ANIMATIONS. the game uses ragdoll physics just like all rockstar games dating back to 2008. Starfield devs shouldve probably added some better falling animations, but to use this one aspect to judge the game's physics is retarded.

Whats next? should i shit on RDR2 because it doesnt let you pull every pickable object in a room with your gravity powers? Or because it doesnt have object persistence? Its one of the many disingenuous comparisons floating around for starfield. I can promise you horizon, spiderman, gow ragnorak, and 99% of other games that dont use ragdoll physics will fail the same test if you put it up against RDR2's falling ANIMATIONS.

What's funny about that video is that Starfield's strengths come acrosss immediately due to the stunning Realtime GI producing way better lighting than THE BEST LOOKING game of last gen. RDR2 has better draw distance and rock quality, but Starfield had that as early as E3 2023 before it downgraded even for PC. I blame Phil spencer but there is no doubt that Starfield is literally a generation ahead in terms of lighting from the very video created to mock it. Ironic.

Want to criticize Starfield for its downgrade to outdoor geometry and draw distance? Im game. I HATE it. But lets try and give the game its due. especially when its doing so many great things.

The performance on console is fine. It just looks uneven. Some parts look similar to what I see in your PC screenshots. Other shots your pics look like they have an extra top layer of lighting or texture work. I think New Atlantis in particular probably looks a little more flat in terms of lighting, probably because its the most demanding area in the game if I had to guess. When you go down to The Well it does look like a jump up closer to the PC look. The game as a whole is still phenomenal though, and I like to focus on acknowledging art design because the beauty of the game comes across to me regardless of if its XSX or XSS. Got these from a capture on my system yesterday.





I've also posted a lot in the photo thread SlimySnake and you should add some of your shots. I still was snapping photos of New Atlantis frequently and its actually my favorite area in the game.

P.S. I think its kind of creepy that all these selective shot graphics takedown videos all focus on zooming in on minorities. I've never thought any of the NPCs really stand out as very ugly or an issue at all. I'd say 95% of the NPCs (especially if they have speaking lines) look way better than I was expecting.

 

[CatLady]

OP, Starfield looks great to me especially considering the size, scope and various systems in this game. RDR2 for it's time may look better but my God what a tedious boring slog it is. I had a hard time getting through it. I have a hard time tearing myself away from Starfield. I don't play games to look at graphics, I play games to have FUN and Bethesda is lightyears ahead of Rock Star in the fun factor.

Play it for what it is or find something that has better graphics for you to look at.

 

[Pop]

30fps is never fine

 

[wolfboy203]

It would be easier to forgive if it wasn't said that their next game is still on the same engine. Seems to me the people involved are just dead set on not having to start over and learn a new one before they retire (not sarcasm)

Wait what??? Are you serious right now?? They said that?? That is not the right move to make on their end....they need a brand new modern day engine that has the same features. Use Msft's bank account of you have to!

 

[Ribi]

True.

Thanks for agreeing

Wym play it now? It's been playable from the start. It's in alpha. Everyone just memes that it's not a game and doesn't exist yet you can literally go play it rn

 

[Sleepwalker]

The performance on console is fine. It just looks uneven. Some parts look similar to what I see in your PC screenshots. Other shots your pics look like they have an extra top layer of lighting or texture work. I think New Atlantis in particular probably looks a little more flat in terms of lighting, probably because its the most demanding area in the game if I had to guess. When you go down to The Well it does look like a jump up closer to the PC look. The game as a whole is still phenomenal though, and I like to focus on acknowledging art design because the beauty of the game comes across to me regardless of if its XSX or XSS. Got these from a capture on my system yesterday.





I've also posted a lot in the photo thread SlimySnake and you should add some of your shots. I still was snapping photos of New Atlantis frequently and its actually my favorite area in the game.

P.S. I think its kind of creepy that all these selective shot graphics takedown videos all focus on zooming in on minorities. I've never thought any of the NPCs really stand out as very ugly or an issue at all. I'd say 95% of the NPCs (especially if they have speaking lines) look way better than I was expecting.

I agree the game looks ok on console, even beautiful at times. But man I just can't deal with that 30fps, just watching my wife play on series X looks super jarring to me.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

You: people who like Starfield are console warriors

Also you: have posted about it hundreds of times to paint it in a negative light

I’m not trying to prove anything other than you wouldn’t be so heavily invested in discussing a game you don’t like and aren’t playing if it was multiplat. Let’s say Avatar comes out later this year and gets average reviews. Are you gonna spend hours of your life discussing it? No, you’re obviously not.

And I’m not trying to pick on you there are a ton of people doing this. And there are absolutely people who wouldn’t have cared about Beth games suddenly acting like huge fans. I’m not gonna further derail this topic but the stink of console wars has completely ruined discussion of this game.

Gonna be honest, I'm seeing TONS of passive-aggressive fanboy posts all over the board despite the alleged reputation for having a low tolerance for such behavior. I know that even I, myself, have gotten carried away from time to time, but I so wish the non-silly stuff would just phase out in favor of more positive and constructive discourse.

I've recently been posting again over at System Wars on GameSpot, and they've just thrown in the towel over there and the few hundred or so posters left just constantly post bottom-of-the-barrel tripe and there's no civility, or genuine discussion to be had what so ever. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I hope this place never lets itself go like that, and in comparison gaf is soooo much better at being a quality gaming discussion forum.

 

[Justin9mm]

Game is great on consoles so just stop with the nonsense.

Never said the game wasn't great. If you actually bother to read and comprehend my comments. My problem with the game is the graphics' major disparity between console and PC version. Its night and day. Game is overall fine. Game looks amazing on PC. If you haven't experienced both versions than you got no idea. So stop with your ignorance.

 

[Justin9mm]

I agree the game looks ok on console, even beautiful at times. But man I just can't deal with that 30fps, just watching my wife play on series X looks super jarring to me.

The game looks ok yes. But the difference between Series X and PC version not even talking about framerate is jarring. Series X is like PC low settings all round. It shouldn't be this much of a difference especially at 30fps.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Not on console. I played on my Series X first and then on my high end gaming PC, there is a lot more going on than a framerate cut on console. It does not look great at all. It looks worse on my 4K TV than playing in 1440p on my monitor. Of course PC will always be superior but its a pretty big difference. It's like console is low settings and 30fps is obviously the kick in the guts. Gunplay is 'acceptable'

I play it on XSX, and the gunplay is the equal of COD and Rage 2, which I think are the two best.
The gunplay is exceptional.

 

[Justin9mm]

I play it on XSX, and the gunplay is the equal of COD and Rage 2, which I think are the two best.
The gunplay is exceptional.

Sorry, but you are blind mate. You obviously don't know fps games very well. COD and Rage 2 aren't even remotely similar. Like COD? LOL

Tell me you don't know what a good fps is without telling me you don't know what a good fps is lol

You are biased because you like the game. You can like the game but stop with the bullshit.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

The game looks ok yes. But the difference between Series X and PC version not even talking about framerate is jarring. Series X is like PC low settings all round. It shouldn't be this much of a difference especially at 30fps.

What does that matter though, to someone who doesn't play on PC, and can't compare the two? Personally speaking, I've seen the PC screenshots and some are magnificent, but I don't even care since it still looks great to me on Series X. Console gamers will compare the graphics to older Bethesda games on consoles, and the difference is really big even there.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Sorry, but you are blind mate. You obviously don't know fps games very well. COD and Rage 2 aren't even remotely similar. Like COD? LOL

Tell me you don't know what a good fps is without telling me you don't know what a good fps is lol

You are biased because you like the game. You can like the game but stop with the bullshit.

I have played a ton Destiny and Destiny 2, and imo the gun mechanics are in the same ball park. It feels good enough to me considering the kind of game it is.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Sorry, but you are blind mate. You obviously don't know fps games very well. COD and Rage 2 aren't even remotely similar. Like COD? LOL

Tell me you don't know what a good fps is without telling me you don't know what a good fps is lol

You are biased because you like the game. You can like the game but stop with the bullshit.

You just admitted you played it on PC as well, which if you had a PC you would always play FPS on it.

I play exclusively on Xbox and absolutely the gun play is excellent, and plays as well as COD and Rqge 2, which I view as the best.
I didn't say Rage and COD played the same did I? I said they were both top of the line for their gunplay.

It's ok to not like the game, but don't say the gunplay is shit, because you are just showing that you are biased.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You just admitted you played it on PC as well, which if you had a PC you would always play FPS on it.

I play exclusively on Xbox and absolutely the gun play is excellent, and plays as well as COD and Rqge 2, which I view as the best.
I didn't say Rage and COD played the same did I? I said they were both top of the line for their gunplay.

It's ok to not like the game, but don't say the gunplay is shit, because you are just showing that you are biased.

It's not even 60fps to have the "same feel as CoD."

 

[Danjin44]

Its 2023, how long people continue bitch about pointless shit?

 

[theclaw135]

Its 2023, how long people continue bitch about pointless shit?

It wouldn't be a gaming message board without the "I paid $5000 for my PC, and all I got were ports of console games!" clowns.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Being critical of a game so that future releases don't repeat the same mistakes ≠ hating.

Get your head out of your ass for a second.

Considering I likes I got for that post means a lot of people must have their heads in their ass then. Damn them for not hating a perfectly good game!

 

[Justin9mm]

What does that matter though, to someone who doesn't play on PC, and can't compare the two? Personally speaking, I've seen the PC screenshots and some are magnificent, but I don't even care since it still looks great to me on Series X. Console gamers will compare the graphics to older Bethesda games on consoles, and the difference is really big even there.

You're missing the point. It's to do with the Series X being more than capable, especially at 30fps. It comes down to an outdated engine and poor optimisation. If you don't understand how game development works on a technical level, then don't comment. You don't even understand what I'm talking about or what I'm actually debating.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Thanks for agreeing

Wym play it now? It's been playable from the start. It's in alpha. Everyone just memes that it's not a game and doesn't exist yet you can literally go play it rn

I don’t know I can play it now. I watch ppl play it. I just assumed it was for ppl that already bought it or whatever and they were having them play to test it. Seen where they was giving streamers and stuff like unlimited money to buy whatever they want and stuff

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

You're missing the point. It's to do with the Series X being more than capable, especially at 30fps. It comes down to an outdated engine and poor optimisation. If you don't understand how game development works on a technical level, then don't comment. You don't even understand what I'm talking about or what I'm actually debating.

 

[Raven117]

Bethesda has their niche, just like any other top tier developer. They have an identity, and those that are interested in Bethesda games have an expectation that aligns with that identity.

• We don't expect FROM games to have cutting edge graphics or to run particularly well, and we're okay with that
• We don't expect Capcom games to have particularly good voice acting or writing, and in fact we love Capcom games because of their cheesiness and hamfistedness
• We don't expect Persona games to push the bar on a technical level, and we've come to accept that all games in the series look like they could run on a generation or two generation old hardware
• We don't expect Rockstar games to control particularly responsively, as their strengths are in creating living, breathing, cinematic worlds and characters with an insane attention to detail

Yet when a Bethesda game that has generally great reviews and is beloved by most who have played it comes out, suddenly we have to hold them to some mythical standard?


And frankly the game frequently looks absolutely fucking amazing:

I feel like I'm playing a different game going by some of the shit that's been posted here.

That’s a bit disingenuous.

We love all those games because of their strengths. For Bethesda games, it’s the exploration of an open world… starfield is not a space exploration game, but instead is most navigated by menus.

It’s a solid game. Some of the better quests Bethesda has ever done. But the reviews having it about about 80-85 are right. It’s lacking some special sauce that Skyrim had. (It’s about fallout 4 levels for me… it that even had the exploration).

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

You can disagree about gunplay, that is subjective but my comparison between PC and XSX is 100% factual, not opinion.

Woah, PC looks better than console? Alert the press.

Not as good as PC doesn't mean it looks bad. Some planets actually do look pretty bleak, but that adds to the charm of the game imho. I never know when I land on a planet if I am going to see lush mountains or barren deserts or icy plains and how they will stack up against other planets with the same biome. Today I landed on some mountains on a moon but they were volcanic, there was ash in the air and lava on the ground and I landed in the middle of a thunderstorm of steamy hot rain. It looked fantastic. On the next moon I landed in a desert of nothing but rocks and shitty looking vegetation. Some areas look amazing, even on console, others don't. Sure, it doesn't have the consistency of something like RDR2, but on the plus side it's not an absolute chore to play like RDR2.

 

[ChiefDada]

4090 owners are right to feel their hardware should be the baseline tech.

If they lack an understanding of basic economic principles, sure.

 

[JayK47]

I had another great night playing Starfield. Such a great game. Glad I spent that time playing rather than complaining about it.

 

[theclaw135]

You're missing the point. It's to do with the Series X being more than capable, especially at 30fps. It comes down to an outdated engine and poor optimisation. If you don't understand how game development works on a technical level, then don't comment. You don't even understand what I'm talking about or what I'm actually debating.

Are we looking at different screencaps? There is no way Series X can get close to the PC version.

 

[Justin9mm]

Are we looking at different screencaps? There is no way Series X can get close to the PC version.

I don't know how to explain this. I'm not talking about how generally a game on PC looks better than console, that is a given. It's the level of difference that is the issue. The game on series X should look closer to PC medium settings. Not PC low settings. Series X playing at 30fps should leave a lot more headroom. They should have opted for native 1440p not 4K on series X. When Bethesda sold us the game, they were pushing the belief that the game was at its best on Series X in 4K and that's why 30fps is the only option. Well that's bullshit. The game should look a lot better than it does, even forgetting about the PC Version. I've done some testing and playing @ 1440p on medium settings on PC you can see its night and day level of difference, but at medium settings at lower res, it shouldn't be. I'm not saying the graphics are terrible, I'm saying that they should be better on Series X given the 30fps cap and it shouldn't have such a major difference to a mid tier PC.

 

[BlackTron]

It feels like we are finally at the point where the complexity is collapsing under its own weight. We see this in the AAA space in particular, because the cost of building an engine capable of grand scope is enormous. Not only that, but there is a standard of visual fidelity expected, and all of that content needs to be animated. Devs are no longer free to make rapid creative decisions that resulted in some of our favorite games and moments.


The reality is engines are expensive to make, especially custom ones. Devs want to use them as long as they can. Some have really good results, like Capcom’s RE engine. Others are money pits and they are wrung for all the value they can muster. The more they spend on the engine, and the longer it takes for the game to be made, the less “extra sales” can justify the increased cost of development. This is abundantly true for Bethesda, who releases games so infrequently.

MS has trouble budgeting for a modern engine in their own AAA game because they're saving up to buy Nintendo

 

[Warablo]

The gunplay isn't silky smooth like Apex/Titanfall but its miles ahead of a game like Deus Ex or Fallout 4. The weapon design is so much better than Fallout's too.

The graphics are good, but always has a washed out filter that can make vegetation look horrible. The lighting/time of day can make a huge difference on how a planet looks. Player models are still trash.

 

[Bkdk]

I would say one thing in bethesda's defense, RDR2's mod support is honestly quite disappointing, not sure how much of it is due to game engine, however one thing bgs still gets it right is they know modding scene is the biggest strength of their game and the flexibility of mods is one of their reason for sticking with the old engine.