Support NeoGAF

[thefro]

Whats so stupid about having the new ability you trained with during the entire dungeon be used as the litmus test on the boss? Knowing which weapon to use doesn't make the solution any more or less obtuse.

In the NES LoZ, there were several ways to beat the most of the dungeon bosses (which is why you can get to Ganon without even picking up a sword!).

At the least, there needs to be variety so it's not "do this 3 times and the boss dies!" for every boss in the game.

 

[flintstryker]

yeah I can see why some people hate it. it just doesn't bother me. *shrug*

*highfive*

I think part of the reason for this is unlike most of you guys i don't play zelda games as soon as they are released.

 

[the thoroughbred]

I think I can wait another 2 years for another console Zelda. So yes if they showed a trailer now, and released it in 2011, I'd be happy. I still think Twilight Princess is a masterpiece that most do not appreciate. The sheer attention to detail, is immense, and the fact that it was all in GC hardware, just makes it more epic.

Iwata once said, they probably won't make a game as ambitious as TP. Sad..

 

[[Nintex]]

It's simple guys:
What did Nintendo use to trick us into buying a Wii even though we were perfectly happy with the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox and didn't want Wii Sports?

Answer: Zelda Twilight Princess

How will Nintendo convince us to buy the Wii Motion Plus device even though we have no interest in Wii Sports Resort whatsoever.

Answer: Zelda Motion Plus

Why would they bother with Metroid or StarFox when Zelda is certain to sell gangbusters in the US and EU?

 

[Zoramon089]

It's simple guys:
What did Nintendo use to trick us into buying a Wii even though we were perfectly happy with the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox and didn't want Wii Sports?

Answer: Zelda Twilight Princess

How will Nintendo convince us to buy the Wii Motion Plus device even though we have no interest in Wii Sports Resort whatsoever.

Answer: Zelda Motion Plus

Why would they bother with Metroid or StarFox when Zelda is certain to sell gangbusters in the US and EU?

These don't make sense...

 

[-WindYoshi-]

It's simple guys:
What did Nintendo use to trick us into buying a Wii even though we were perfectly happy with the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox and didn't want Wii Sports?

Answer: Zelda Twilight Princess

How will Nintendo convince us to buy the Wii Motion Plus device even though we have no interest in Wii Sports Resort whatsoever.

Answer: Zelda Motion Plus

Why would they bother with Metroid or StarFox when Zelda is certain to sell gangbusters in the US and EU?

This makes a lot of sense.

:lol

 

[Black-Wind]

These don't make sense...

I think he is refering to the "core" group who jumped on the Wii not because they were balls crazy about WiiSports but because they wanted motion controled TP (which is why most of the TP sells are for the Wii . . .and Im in that group of gamers who were boiling over with TP hype and got the Wii just for it).

In other words . . . Nintendo uses their "core" or famed titles to help get their fans to jump onto something new. WSR is not going to be the only BIG nintendo game shown to use M+.

 

[Dr.Hadji]

In the NES LoZ, there were several ways to beat the most of the dungeon bosses (which is why you can get to Ganon without even picking up a sword!).

At the least, there needs to be variety so it's not "do this 3 times and the boss dies!" for every boss in the game.

The first point I can agree with. Personally I think, some way some how, every boss about be able to be beaten by your trusty sword.

As for the "do this 3 times and the boss dies" trope, again I don't know why Zelda is always singled out for this where most games do this. From DMC to Ratchet and Clank to even (gasp) SotC. Heck I've had online matches in SF4 that were pretty much repeat one pattern 3 times for the win. As someone said in a previous thread, alot of what people complain about is actually the quality of the patterns. Citing Mega Man bosses and how they're pattern based but feel more dynamic because of their "unpredictability".

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Just to add my two bits of thoughs: I think that next Zelda has to think to the magic ocarina of time delivered. Not in terms of just game-mechanics, but also because of the cohesion provided by a well made storyline with charismatic characters. Cut-scenes, even if very limited by the space of cartridges, were simply, but so full of feelings. I mean: the scene where Saria left Link is very short, but its value exceed what could have been done adding mere words. Further, adding majora's mask depthness and darkness, you can reach a multi-leveled adventure game, whose main force will not be the trivial, annoying and unsatisfying -dungeon-boss-go to next dungeon-procedure, but a true adventure game, full of surprises, memorable scenes and desire to never stop playing.

In this sense, I believe that Okami accomplished quite a remarkable achievement. It lacked many things, but not a good, non-obvious storyline. I was never bored playing Okami. But I was often bored as hell with Twilight Princess.

That's the point I think. The most trivial, but at the same time less obvious to reach achievement of a game is to keep the player on the screen day and night until the end. And at the end, just let him desire to restart the game again. You can say then that this was a so-called masterpiece.

 

[camineet]

One thing about Ocarina of Time I have been thinking about. For Nintendo-fans, it was an impressive-looking game experience, being the first Zelda in 3D. Now for me, someone that was a huge fan of NAMCO and SEGA's highend arcade games in the 90s, OoT on N64 in 1998 did not look all that impressive. But if I clear arcade games out of my mind, and stick only with Nintendo systems and Zelda games, the experience that OoT provided over previous 2D Zelda games was awe-inspiring. The ability to explore a fully realized 3D world and play through a huge quest like that, was a true revolution. It's gonna be very hard to top that. It will never be topped with better 3D graphics. I think that's TP's main problem in the eyes of its critics. So Wii Zelda is going to have to be a revolution in gameplay mechanics. It'll have to play like no 3D Zelda before it. It'll have to be a significant challenge too, but a rewarding one. I could write many more paragraphs with my thoughts, but that's the main thing I wanted to say, at this moment.

 

[camineet]

It's simple guys:
What did Nintendo use to trick us into buying a Wii even though we were perfectly happy with the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox and didn't want Wii Sports?

Answer: Zelda Twilight Princess

How will Nintendo convince us to buy the Wii Motion Plus device even though we have no interest in Wii Sports Resort whatsoever.

Answer: Zelda Motion Plus

Why would they bother with Metroid or StarFox when Zelda is certain to sell gangbusters in the US and EU?

Yeah, that does make quite a lot of sense, I agree.

 

[sprocket]

It's simple guys:
What did Nintendo use to trick us into buying a Wii even though we were perfectly happy with the GameCube, PS2 and Xbox and didn't want Wii Sports?

Answer: Zelda Twilight Princess

How will Nintendo convince us to buy the Wii Motion Plus device even though we have no interest in Wii Sports Resort whatsoever.

Answer: Zelda Motion Plus

Why would they bother with Metroid or StarFox when Zelda is certain to sell gangbusters in the US and EU?

i think so too .. but on the other hand EA has me greatly interested in motion +

 

[Version 3.0]

All I really want out of a new Zelda game is some respect. Take out all the coddling and idiotic repetitions of how much blue rupies are worth, take out the red text highlighting all the important parts, take out the neon signs highlighting boss weaknesses, and put in some challenge. Make it as hard as some of the older titles. As recently as Majora's Mask, there was challenge; it was no pushover. But Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both feel like Easy Mode, or Beginner's Walkthrough Mode. It's a shame because they're both fantastic games in most other ways.

 

[camineet]

All I really want out of a new Zelda game is some respect. Take out all the coddling and idiotic repetitions of how much blue rupies are worth, take out the red text highlighting all the important parts, take out the neon signs highlighting boss weaknesses, and put in some challenge. Make it as hard as some of the older titles. As recently as Majora's Mask, there was challenge; it was no pushover. But Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both feel like Easy Mode, or Beginner's Walkthrough Mode. It's a shame because they're both fantastic games in most other ways.

I do very much agree with you about the constant hand-holding of recent Zelda games--That shit HAS to go.

With that said, Zelda Wii has to have some greatness behind it, not just an absence of hand-holding and presence of challenge.

 

[leroidys]

a reimagining of the first game in the same vein as the STAR TREK reboot would be really interesting. the nods to the first and second games should definitely be there: a monster who says "grumble grumble" that you have to feed to get past, the classic "it's a secret to everyone," and tons of things like that which wouldn't necessarily stand out to the zelda layman but would be nonetheless present to fans.

some of this has already been done in previous zeldas, but i think drawing back the town elements of the games and returning to the sort of dangerous, insane wilderness of the nes game would really do a lot to bring back that sense of being thrust into a situation for which you're really maybe not quite ready for.

too many npcs makes the world feel too warm and safe and busy. i wouldn't say that zelda has ever been about isolation in the same way that metroid has been, but the first game certainly had a strong sense of being on your own, and that if you messed up or failed, there wasn't going to be some third party there to save your ass. there's something to that, and it kind of needs to come back.

As much as I agree with this, IMO ico/sotc already did this reimagining of Zelda 1 and spanked nintendo's ass hard. I think nintendo ought to go with the charm its been known for since LTTP. They should combine the awesomeness of the TP dungeons with the charm of the NPCs and overworld in WW (with more stuff obviously). I don't care which art style, both TP and WW look great. Some areas of TP look awful due to super low quality textures (probably due to working in the constraints of a GC disc) but other parts look absolutely stunning and next gen. WW also has parts that don't look super fantastic. I don't understand why people want the original art to return. It looks good, and I enjoyed it then, but I think both WW and TP have great art direction.

Also, I'm ALL FOR fewer weapons with more utility as earlier suggested and echoed in this thread. I thought Phantom hourglass took a baby step in the right direction with this.

Also, I don't even particularly care if M + is utilized for sword play, but I do definitely want them to retain pointer controls for shooting weapons of course.

I also agree that the storyline needs to not be a throw away.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

a reimagining of the first game in the same vein as the STAR TREK reboot would be really interesting. the nods to the first and second games should definitely be there: a monster who says "grumble grumble" that you have to feed to get past, the classic "it's a secret to everyone," and tons of things like that which wouldn't necessarily stand out to the zelda layman but would be nonetheless present to fans.

some of this has already been done in previous zeldas, but i think drawing back the town elements of the games and returning to the sort of dangerous, insane wilderness of the nes game would really do a lot to bring back that sense of being thrust into a situation for which you're really maybe not quite ready for.

too many npcs makes the world feel too warm and safe and busy. i wouldn't say that zelda has ever been about isolation in the same way that metroid has been, but the first game certainly had a strong sense of being on your own, and that if you messed up or failed, there wasn't going to be some third party there to save your ass. there's something to that, and it kind of needs to come back.

Thank you for bringing this up. I wish they'd make another one like the first.

 

[Oblivion]

yeah I can see why some people hate it. it just doesn't bother me. *shrug*

I really don't know why that set up bothers some people to such a high degree. The reason I personally don't have a problem with that is because getting the master sword is kind of a ritual demonstrating that you're ready for the REAL shit up ahead.

 

[Dizzan]

I'll take a new Zelda. Either same shit or fresh, just give it to me.

I played the original, Ocarina and didn't play any til TP so they are still fresh for me. I wish I played Windwaker though so give me something in that art style please.

 

[HylianScribe]

As much as I agree with this, IMO ico/sotc already did this reimagining of Zelda 1 and spanked nintendo's ass hard.

SotC lacked enemies, items, and extensive dungeons. Calling the Colossi "dungeons" is too generous and somewhat incorrect. Some of the "paths" to the Colossi could be somewhat like dungeons, but that's more like trying to find the dungeon entrances. SotC is very Zelda 1-esque, though. Project Trico will probably nail it if Nintendo doesn't go this route.

what happend to you? I remember you were so loud during zelda 2004 trailer during a class that you had to walk out.

I'm not so iron clad in that I would be completely against the notion of rebooting Zelda like I probably would have been probably just as recently as 2005. Back then, I'd probably scream Nintendo was copping out and not bothering to fix the "timeline" or something. I still got excited at Spirit Tracks, though it seems everyone else has bailed out on that game already, so I'll be one of the few anticipating its release hopefully this holiday.

 

[Oblivion]

Project Trico will probably nail it if Nintendo doesn't go this route.

What makes you think this?

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

I'll take a new Zelda. Either same shit or fresh, just give it to me.

I played the original, Ocarina and didn't play any til TP so they are still fresh for me. I wish I played Windwaker though so give me something in that art style please.

Play Windwaker now, it's not too late.

 

[Nabs]

I'll take a new Zelda. Either same shit or fresh, just give it to me.

I played the original, Ocarina and didn't play any til TP so they are still fresh for me. I wish I played Windwaker though so give me something in that art style please.

i'm confused. why don't you just play tp and ww?

 

[AniHawk]

SotC lacked enemies, items, and extensive dungeons. Calling the Colossi "dungeons" is too generous and somewhat incorrect. Some of the "paths" to the Colossi could be somewhat like dungeons, but that's more like trying to find the dungeon entrances. SotC is very Zelda 1-esque, though. Project Trico will probably nail it if Nintendo doesn't go this route

I very much doubt it. It's not what Team Ico's really about. They'll do their own thing with Trico and it'll be great in its own way.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Whatever they do, I just don't want them to announce the next console Zelda prior to my finishing Twilight Princess. I don't want to get spoilered in the speculation discussion.

 

[AniHawk]

Whatever they do, I just don't want them to announce the next console Zelda prior to my finishing Twilight Princess. I don't want to get spoilered in the speculation discussion.

All you need to know is that Zelda is Midna and that Zant is actually Ivo Shandor.

 

[Dizzan]

i'm confused. why don't you just play tp and ww?

I did plat TP but didn't play WW cos I never had a GC. I was partying too much and games took a back seta but now I try to find more time for them.

I've heard WW is great but the sailing can be quite boring. I;m just hoping they release a cel shaded Zelda next and cut out the boring bits.

It's still quite expensive here in Australia too, coupled witht he fact that Id have to buy a GC Controller.

Am i crazy for skipping it?

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I did plat TP but didn't play WW cos I never had a GC. I was partying too much and games took a back seta but now I try to find more time for them.

I've heard WW is great but the sailing can be quite boring. I;m just hoping they release a cel shaded Zelda next and cut out the boring bits.

It's still quite expensive here in Australia too, coupled witht he fact that Id have to buy a GC Controller.

Am i crazy for skipping it?

You should check the AusGAF thread more often. I sold my copy of WW to someone on there last week.

 

[Dizzan]

You should check the AusGAF thread more often. I sold my copy of WW to someone on there last week.

Noooo! How much?

 

[camineet]

I think I can wait another 2 years for another console Zelda. So yes if they showed a trailer now, and released it in 2011, I'd be happy. I still think Twilight Princess is a masterpiece that most do not appreciate. The sheer attention to detail, is immense, and the fact that it was all in GC hardware, just makes it more epic.

Iwata once said, they probably won't make a game as ambitious as TP. Sad..

Before Mario Galaxy came along, I thought Twilight Princess was the best game Nintendo had ever produced.

Crap if that's true about Iwata saying that probably won't make another game as ambitious as TP.

 

[BlueSummers]

I do very much agree with you about the constant hand-holding of recent Zelda games--That shit HAS to go.

With that said, Zelda Wii has to have some greatness behind it, not just an absence of hand-holding and presence of challenge.

Wasen' there some patents found about possible new Zelda mechanics that included a rewind function and a hint feature? Memory is a little rusty but maybe something else that included having chapters so you could skip whole sections of the game? Seems like the hand-holding could just get worse. :lol

 

[8-Bit Soul]

Am i crazy for skipping it?

You are litterarly insane

Wind Waker is the best game EVER

I love it.

 

[Dreavus]

All I really want out of a new Zelda game is some respect. Take out all the coddling and idiotic repetitions of how much blue rupies are worth, take out the red text highlighting all the important parts, take out the neon signs highlighting boss weaknesses, and put in some challenge. Make it as hard as some of the older titles. As recently as Majora's Mask, there was challenge; it was no pushover. But Wind Waker and Twilight Princess both feel like Easy Mode, or Beginner's Walkthrough Mode. It's a shame because they're both fantastic games in most other ways.

I can agree with this.

At least give us some sort of difficulty option. Hard mode: every enemy does x2/x3 damage - done. One of the things i distinctly remember about Wind Waker was how little damage I took from enemies. That hit only took away half a heart? Really? Really? Although I guess things like boss weaknesses would be a little bit harder to change with a difficulty option, they should definitely be looking into making the new games more challenging.

 

[darkpaladinmfc]

Am i crazy for skipping it?

Yes

 

[beelzebozo]

As much as I agree with this, IMO ico/sotc already did this reimagining of Zelda 1 and spanked nintendo's ass hard. I think nintendo ought to go with the charm its been known for since LTTP. They should combine the awesomeness of the TP dungeons with the charm of the NPCs and overworld in WW (with more stuff obviously). I don't care which art style, both TP and WW look great. Some areas of TP look awful due to super low quality textures (probably due to working in the constraints of a GC disc) but other parts look absolutely stunning and next gen. WW also has parts that don't look super fantastic. I don't understand why people want the original art to return. It looks good, and I enjoyed it then, but I think both WW and TP have great art direction.

Also, I'm ALL FOR fewer weapons with more utility as earlier suggested and echoed in this thread. I thought Phantom hourglass took a baby step in the right direction with this.

Also, I don't even particularly care if M + is utilized for sword play, but I do definitely want them to retain pointer controls for shooting weapons of course.

I also agree that the storyline needs to not be a throw away.

ooh, good call on SHADOW OF THE COLOSSUS and ICO capturing that sense of loneliness without being wholly slavish to the "eerie isolation" of something like METROID. these definitely had that feeling of exploring a place that was old, ancient, forgotten, and not meant to be disturbed, and that's something that ZELDA could really use again.

i disagree that because SOTC and ICO have tread this ground that ZELDA should not, though. i have a lot of respect for both those games, but they also had some undeniable problems: framerate issues, for one, and though i personally think the control scheme in SOTC is pretty rad once you get the feel for it, i felt similarly about tank controls in the old school RESIDENT EVIL series, so my tendency to have a stockholm syndrome reaction to poor game design choices is not without precedent :lol

anyway, point being: nintendo--particularly this team--does things very polished, very well. and even if they take their cues from another set of games, they would inevitably take those cues and do something triple-a. would you really feel so let down by something in the vein of SOTC with a more fleshed out overworld, several zelda tropes, nods to things from that first game which again only the hardest of hardcore fans would recognize?

don't pretend that wouldn't be dope. it would be dope.

give in to the dopeitude.

 

[camineet]

I've never played either ICO or SotC, but I've seen videos of both and they do each have some Zelda elements to them. Maybe I'll get around to picking them both up. TRICO is the first game announced for PS3 that makes me want a PS3. Still, I'm surprised their aren't many good Zelda ripoffs. I did hear that Demon's Souls is a really good one, and now it's coming to the U.S.


Man, Nintendo's E3 press conference / media briefing is less than a week away now--I cannot wait. I have a good feeling its gonna be shown in teaser form, coming in 2010. If it's not shown, I'll eat my hat :lol

 

[camineet]

New Mario, Zelda, WiiFit for E3?

Nintendo is set to unveil a "new Mario or Zelda" game at its pre-E3 press conference next week, equity firm Macquarie Research "understands".

According to the company, Nintendo's looking to provide more "gamer-centric" announcements this year. Oh, and it's going to show a new version of WiiFit as well - but we don't give a monkeys about that.

"We understand WiiFit Plus will be launched at E3, which will be sold separately from the board and in a bundle and will capitalise on the 17m existing WiiFit users," it says in its big E3 report.

"We expect Nintendo to learn its lessons from last year and provide more gamer-centric announcements at E3 such as a new Zelda or Mario title for the Wii (in addition to the new Zelda for DS)," it says. "We do not expect a price cut and see an outside chance that new accessories for Wii could be announced."

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=215814

I'm gonna say 75% chance that Nintendo unveils a new Mario *or* Zelda, with Zelda being much more likely given that Mario Galaxy is much newer than Twilight Princess.

 

[beelzebozo]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=215814

I'm gonna say 75% chance that Nintendo unveils a new Mario *or* Zelda, with Zelda being much more likely given that Mario Galaxy is much newer than Twilight Princess.

i'm gonna say that's a safe bet.

 

[darkwings]

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=215814

I'm gonna say 75% chance that Nintendo unveils a new Mario *or* Zelda, with Zelda being much more likely given that Mario Galaxy is much newer than Twilight Princess.

Didn't Nintendo say that they wanted to do something more with Mario galaxy, like an expansion pack game?

 

[Ysiadmihi]

Didn't Nintendo say that they wanted to do something more with Mario galaxy, like an expansion pack game?

I certainly hope so.

 

[darkwings]

I certainly hope so.

Well so do I, at this point I am more excited for Mario than Zelda.

 

[camineet]

Didn't Nintendo say that they wanted to do something more with Mario galaxy, like an expansion pack game?

Perhaps they did, I really don't know, I haven't kept up with every Nintendo interview.

Maybe someone can find a link where Nintendo mentions something along those lines.

 

[darkwings]

Perhaps they did, I really don't know, I haven't kept up with every Nintendo interview.

Maybe someone can find a link where Nintendo mentions something along those lines.

it was from a year ago or so that nintendo wanted to capitalize on their galaxy success, but i dont remember where.

 

[Varjet]

I'm gonna say 75% chance that Nintendo unveils a new Mario *or* Zelda, with Zelda being much more likely given that Mario Galaxy is much newer than Twilight Princess.

There's still the possibility of a new Mario for the DS.

 

[darkwings]

There's still the possibility of a new Mario for the DS.

that would be sweet also.

 

[camineet]

Well so do I, at this point I am more excited for Mario than Zelda.

In some ways, I would almost be more excited for Mario Galaxy 2 than Zelda, because while Twilight Princess was awesome, Galaxy was absolutely STELLAR, and that's alot coming from me, someone who is not traditionally a Nintendo-fan but much more of a SEGA fan who loves their arcade games. Galaxy's visuals reminded me of the technically amazing stuff that SEGA did on their Model 3 arcade boards, even tho Nintendo & Zelda has nothing to do with Sega arcade games. Galaxy was beyond that even, it had an almost Pixar quality to it, and besides visuals was by far the most FUN I've had with a Nintendo game since Pilotwings, the game that got me to buy my first Nintendo system, SNES in 1991.

With that said, Zelda is due for a new console outing, before Mario, given the logic of development timeframes.

 

[beelzebozo]

more mario would be fine.

but there's no reason to not wish zelda would get a similarly drastic revamp as mario got from SUNSHINE to GALAXY. in some ways it moved forward (awesome gravity and spherical worlds, multiple planetoid-jumping levels, etc.) and in some ways it moved back (removal of fludd). zelda should really have a similar approach if it wants to be a huge hit.

 

[darkwings]

In some ways, I would almost be more excited for Mario Galaxy 2 than Zelda, because while Twilight Princess was awesome, Galaxy was absolutely STELLAR, and that's alot coming from me, someone who is not traditionally a Nintendo-fan but much more of a SEGA fan who loves their arcade games. Galaxy's visuals reminded me of the technically amazing stuff that SEGA did on their Model 3 arcade boards, even tho Nintendo & Zelda has nothing to do with Sega arcade games. Galaxy was beyond that even, it had an almost Pixar quality to it, and besides visuals was by far the most FUN I've had with a Nintendo game since Pilotwings, the game that got me to buy my first Nintendo system, SNES in 1991.

With that said, Zelda is due for a new console outing, before Mario, given the logic of development timeframes.

I agree. I think it is time for console Zelda again. I was both a SEGA and nin fan btw, yes they can co-exist.

 

[camineet]

The thought of a 60fps Zelda (hey why not, Sunshine was 30fps, Galaxy was 60fps) that has a totally revamped gameplay engine using M+ for sword & shield play and perhaps gesture-based magic & puzzle solving, makes me wanna shoot a hot sticky load all over my face

 

[darkwings]

more mario would be fine.

but there's no reason to not wish zelda would get a similarly drastic revamp as mario got from SUNSHINE to GALAXY. in some ways it moved forward (awesome gravity and spherical worlds, multiple planetoid-jumping levels, etc.) and in some ways it moved back (removal of fludd). zelda should really have a similar approach if it wants to be a huge hit.

I liked Sunshine as well. I had a lot of fun with it and I dont understand the general hate.

 

[beelzebozo]

I liked Sunshine as well. I had a lot of fun with it and I dont understand the general hate.

some people will find a way to hate anything. differing tastes and all that.