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Jak and Daxter series > Ratchet or Sly Cooper
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Yoboman
Member
Okay I can see where the hate train comes from but Jak 2 was one of my most anticipated games ever when it came out and I wasn't disappointed. I thought it was a really good game. The overworld was a bit repetitive, yet I still enjoyed it, though I think I had more patience back then. All the levels in between were fantastic though. And I loved editions like the hoverboard. Yes it was cheesy and angsty, but it was a fuckload of fun and still had some great platforming and fun to be found
Jak 2 isn't a bad game, but the change of theme and gameplay away from the things that I liked in the first game put me off. In fact, a quick simile:
Jak 2 is to Jak 1 as Warrior Within is to Sands of Time.
Ostensibly a sequel, and not a *disastrously* poor game - and Jak 2 is far better than WW ever is - but the changes in feel and attitude are very obvious and they can and do put people off who enjoyed the original.
Also, on a personal level, I really really dislike games that try to scream out how cool they are. It's Trying Too Hard. Skateboarding minigames please note.
And finally, the unlockable concept art spoiled the final twist in the plot long before it occurred. That's bad planning.
Jak 2 is to Jak 1 as Warrior Within is to Sands of Time.
Ostensibly a sequel, and not a *disastrously* poor game - and Jak 2 is far better than WW ever is - but the changes in feel and attitude are very obvious and they can and do put people off who enjoyed the original.
Also, on a personal level, I really really dislike games that try to scream out how cool they are. It's Trying Too Hard. Skateboarding minigames please note.
And finally, the unlockable concept art spoiled the final twist in the plot long before it occurred. That's bad planning.
EmCeeGramr
Member
stop being wrong about everything you say, everDoubledex said:Because it was too good. So some fanboys had to hate it
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Jak 2 is one of my most favorite games on the PS2. Sure, they took a different direction with the second one but it didn't bother me. Personally, I liked it better than the first game.
nelsonroyale
Member
first game was fun, pretty and pretty innocuous
Second game was far more ambitious, better looking, more narrative driven and frustrating...definitely the better game when all was said and done...
Second game was far more ambitious, better looking, more narrative driven and frustrating...definitely the better game when all was said and done...
The Librarian
Banned
Jak 2 is an amazing game, and rightly so. The story is quite good, the city is fun to explore... There are so many things awesome about it: just get it.Himuro said:
Now, see, I never understood this "complaint." How is Jak 2 so hard? I played it dozens of times and never found it to be hard at all.`Moe Joe. said:
nelsonroyale
Member
Dax01 said:
Its hard because there are long sections of platforming where you return right to the beginning when you fail... alot of trial and error
PowderedToast
Junior Member
I thought it was hard as balls when I was younger. Though I beat it, I probably wouldn't be able to now.
I agree that Jak 3 was a refinement of 2 and made a lot of substantial improvements.
EDIT: I remember that Mine level had a ridiculous checkpoint system, the one where you use the elevators and it's outside. I remember the first screen of that level quite a bit, I was sent back there so many times.
I agree that Jak 3 was a refinement of 2 and made a lot of substantial improvements.
EDIT: I remember that Mine level had a ridiculous checkpoint system, the one where you use the elevators and it's outside. I remember the first screen of that level quite a bit, I was sent back there so many times.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Hard is the wrong word. Tedious is more like it. Jak II challenges your patience more often than your skills. It can't be overstated how awful the overworld and vehicular sections that take place in it are, and they present a consistent problem throughout the game. It's not some isolated section or challenge you deal with once and get past. It's mind bogglingly crappy design, and I can't understand how people who are into the game can actually overlook or defend it. What's bizarre is that Jak II throws all the positive aspects of hover vehicles from Precusor Legacy out the window for garbage controls and shit mission structure then forces you to use them way more often. It's such a huge and needless step backwards. Bad, bad, bad.Dax01 said:
The Librarian
Banned
Good, good, good. The vehicles in Jak 2 were fun to drive.GrotesqueBeauty said:
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Jak 2 was one of my fav games last gen. Tons of fun gameplay and cool bosses.
Jak II is a bad game. What Naughty Dog did, is decided to focus on the story more than anything. That's what they were selling, a 'mature', dark story in what shouldn't be called a platformer game. So to do this, they set Jak in this dystopian society, and because it's a dystopian society, things must be fucking awful, which Naughty Dog faithfully creates down to painfully bad level design and crappy game design in general.
Saying it's like GTA is doing a disservice to GTA. Even GTA IV, which had a pretty crappy city, still let you decide, for the most part, what routes you could take to get to any given destination. Not so in Jak II. There's one route and only one route to and from different areas on a map for the majority of the game. There's no shortuts. There's no variation. And it might not have been frustrating if it wasn't for the fact that sometimes you'd be ping-ponged back and forth across the map between two or three characters before accepting an actual mission, and each trip takes up about 5-10 minutes. There are cops that chase you, and it's not really that bad, but it gets annoying after a while, because like I said, the game only gives you so very few ways of getting away from them, and after a while they just become noise, instead of a useful, fun addition to the game.
And you'll be lucky if the mission you're sent on lets you do any platforming at all. I honestly can think of just three parts of the game that had a major amount. The majority of it relies on shooting, and the rest of the game is either half-assed skateboarding or racing (which isn't quite as half-assed. I'll grudgingly admit that the racing wasn't that bad). Fortunately, the very few platforming segments are well designed. Unfortunately, it feels like you're on a constant triforce hunt for everything inbetween until you get to one, except slightly worse, since it takes up most of the game.
So thanks to the new, dark, edgy story, we not only get a shitty city, but we get guns for the shooting segments, and there are four of them. I got this game the same time I bought Ratchet & Clank 2. My full expectations were that Jak II was going to be totally awesome and that R&C2 would be kinda average, just based on the first entries for both in their respective series. Playing R&C2 was a sort of revelation. Jak II added four guns and called it a day. R&C2 had a shitload of weapons, and they could upgrade as you played them, keeping the game fresh and fun. Jak II was by-the-numbers at its best by comparison.
There's also a dark Jak mode, and it doesn't really do anything good or bad. It's an extension of the different modes Jak could go into in the first game, but it always felt like a ploy to nab the early teen market that loved DBZ at the time.
People say it's a hard game, and I don't really see that. It wasn't easy, but it wasn't hard. I can only think of one section where I got stuck (it involves skateboarding above toxic water), but that was it. For a half-assed shooting game, the enemies have appropriately half-assed AI. So not even the majority of the actual game is fun.
So if Naughty Dog decided to ruin their own franchise for story, the story must be good, right? Of course not. Naughty Dog can barely design a GTA-lite city. They can't tell a story. There's this thing that starts to happen with a love triangle, and it's never mentioned past the 15-hour mark. The dialogue is particularly terrible, and every character is cliched in the worst way, down to the now-gruff-and-troubled lead character (the game starts off with Jak having been tortured for years. Fun!). What's kinda interesting to me is that they kill off their most interesting character halfway through the game. It's almost like they could tell he was somewhat likable and had to off him.
When it comes down to the boss battles, they're pure trash. The final boss battle is, in particular, one of the weakest in gaming history. You run around in a circle and shoot at it. That's it. That's no exaggeration, it's exactly what you do. You keep shooting and shooting until it dies from it. There's no strategy, no thought put into it at all.
Jak II is a terrible game on most accounts (being the story and gameplay and design in particular). The animation is pretty great, but you could also play a Ratchet & Clank game for good animation, and you'd get better level design, and something more fun in general.
And I guess this says just how lazy or clueless Naughty Dog became between 2001 and 2003: Jak II is a sequel to Jak and Daxter. In Jak II, you have travel the same routes over and over, without variation. Jak and Daxter had warp points. There are none in Jak II.
Saying it's like GTA is doing a disservice to GTA. Even GTA IV, which had a pretty crappy city, still let you decide, for the most part, what routes you could take to get to any given destination. Not so in Jak II. There's one route and only one route to and from different areas on a map for the majority of the game. There's no shortuts. There's no variation. And it might not have been frustrating if it wasn't for the fact that sometimes you'd be ping-ponged back and forth across the map between two or three characters before accepting an actual mission, and each trip takes up about 5-10 minutes. There are cops that chase you, and it's not really that bad, but it gets annoying after a while, because like I said, the game only gives you so very few ways of getting away from them, and after a while they just become noise, instead of a useful, fun addition to the game.
And you'll be lucky if the mission you're sent on lets you do any platforming at all. I honestly can think of just three parts of the game that had a major amount. The majority of it relies on shooting, and the rest of the game is either half-assed skateboarding or racing (which isn't quite as half-assed. I'll grudgingly admit that the racing wasn't that bad). Fortunately, the very few platforming segments are well designed. Unfortunately, it feels like you're on a constant triforce hunt for everything inbetween until you get to one, except slightly worse, since it takes up most of the game.
So thanks to the new, dark, edgy story, we not only get a shitty city, but we get guns for the shooting segments, and there are four of them. I got this game the same time I bought Ratchet & Clank 2. My full expectations were that Jak II was going to be totally awesome and that R&C2 would be kinda average, just based on the first entries for both in their respective series. Playing R&C2 was a sort of revelation. Jak II added four guns and called it a day. R&C2 had a shitload of weapons, and they could upgrade as you played them, keeping the game fresh and fun. Jak II was by-the-numbers at its best by comparison.
There's also a dark Jak mode, and it doesn't really do anything good or bad. It's an extension of the different modes Jak could go into in the first game, but it always felt like a ploy to nab the early teen market that loved DBZ at the time.
People say it's a hard game, and I don't really see that. It wasn't easy, but it wasn't hard. I can only think of one section where I got stuck (it involves skateboarding above toxic water), but that was it. For a half-assed shooting game, the enemies have appropriately half-assed AI. So not even the majority of the actual game is fun.
So if Naughty Dog decided to ruin their own franchise for story, the story must be good, right? Of course not. Naughty Dog can barely design a GTA-lite city. They can't tell a story. There's this thing that starts to happen with a love triangle, and it's never mentioned past the 15-hour mark. The dialogue is particularly terrible, and every character is cliched in the worst way, down to the now-gruff-and-troubled lead character (the game starts off with Jak having been tortured for years. Fun!). What's kinda interesting to me is that they kill off their most interesting character halfway through the game. It's almost like they could tell he was somewhat likable and had to off him.
When it comes down to the boss battles, they're pure trash. The final boss battle is, in particular, one of the weakest in gaming history. You run around in a circle and shoot at it. That's it. That's no exaggeration, it's exactly what you do. You keep shooting and shooting until it dies from it. There's no strategy, no thought put into it at all.
Jak II is a terrible game on most accounts (being the story and gameplay and design in particular). The animation is pretty great, but you could also play a Ratchet & Clank game for good animation, and you'd get better level design, and something more fun in general.
And I guess this says just how lazy or clueless Naughty Dog became between 2001 and 2003: Jak II is a sequel to Jak and Daxter. In Jak II, you have travel the same routes over and over, without variation. Jak and Daxter had warp points. There are none in Jak II.
starchild excalibur
Member
I wasn't even really a fan of Jak 1, but Jak 2's vehicle portions annoyed the shit out of me. Bad handling, congested streets, annoying races. It was one of those games I beat out of anger than out of enjoyment.
And Jak's "tough guy" persona was utterly laughable.
And Jak's "tough guy" persona was utterly laughable.
evilromero
Member
It totally raped the charm of the first game by adding guns and a stupid GTA-like mission system. Ugh.
overthehill99
Member
I really have no clue where you ar seeing this hate. Jak II is one of the best games on PS2, by far. Its also the best game in the Jak and Daxter series. It blends shooter, platforming and open world gameplay perfectly, making it one of the most fun times you can have on a PS2. The one knock I can think against it is that its very hard, but still totally beatable.
XxBigP123xX
Member
I liked it...
I'd also like to say that the people who consider this game great probably never owned many consoles outside of the PS2, or else they might have come across a platformer that was well designed. You'd think they'd know about Klonoa 2, but whatever.
Himuro, this game was worse than Okami.
Himuro, this game was worse than Okami.
ChackanKun
Member
Jak 2 is a great game, not as good as 1 & 3 such as 3 is not as good as 1. The thing is that Jak 1 is based purely on platforms and not on guns, whilst 2 & 3 are too much based in guns. Other than that, Jak 2 has too much traffic and screen tearing, whilst Jak 3 is incredibly polished!
All 3 rock.
All 3 rock.
try to discuss the quality of games without playing themAniHawk said:
oh and I really don't care about what they did to the franchise because who gives a shit but Jak 2 is mostly a dull affair with bits of what should resemble (but aren't) exciting set pieces here and there
you know, like most naughty dog games
Thats when it lost its way. Its like Resistance 2. It tried so hard to be like other games that it forgot who it was. It became this weird shooter/GTA clone. And driving in the street was f'n impossible. I had cops chasing me CONSTANTLY because I kept tapping their cars.
NOT hitting... TAPPING.
NOT hitting... TAPPING.
nelsonroyale
Member
funny when people compare it to GTA games...I vastly preferred Jak 2 to any GTA game
GitarooMan
Member
Best of the 3 by far and one of the best PS2 games of the generation. Don't let Anihawk's irrational hate cloud you.
EDIT: a better question is why all the love for the inferior Jak 1 "Ooh its got bright colors and its cute as a button." It's also painfully easy and short.
EDIT: a better question is why all the love for the inferior Jak 1 "Ooh its got bright colors and its cute as a button." It's also painfully easy and short.
GitarooMan said:
My hate is quite rational. Did you even read what I posted? I have a good reason to dislike the game. It fires on no cylinders from nearly every aspect.
Himuro said:
You know how Okami had some good levels interspersed between long, boring stretches of collectathons and story and other bullshit? Imagine those long stretches were also accompanied by a city design worse than GTA IV's and far less interesting characters.
Odrion said:
Well I liked the overall package, but it wasn't nearly as good as I was expecting. I'm saying that Jak II is nowhere near as good.
SuperSonic1305
Member
Jak 2 is a terrible terrible game. The story was great, the graphics were some of the best on PS2, there was tons of variety, it controlled great, there was more to do then just press a jump button 100 times, characters and voice acting were awesome, Good music, and a good difficulty. Nothing at all that belongs in a good game.
Good platformers contain cookie cutter cliche stories, graphics that look a generation behind, no variety, bad controls, nothing more than a jump button, lame characters with no voice acting or even text, lame repetitive music, and are so easy that your mom could beat them.
Good platformers contain cookie cutter cliche stories, graphics that look a generation behind, no variety, bad controls, nothing more than a jump button, lame characters with no voice acting or even text, lame repetitive music, and are so easy that your mom could beat them.
Jak 2 is awful.
As others have said, the challenge really comes from the wrong places. My main problem with the game is that if you want to get around the overworld fast enough (to go to your missions), you'll want to grab a car, but crash enough and you get cops after you and you die. Considering how bad the vehicles control, it's not fun. I gave up at one of the vehicle missions.
Jak 3 is better in every way imaginable.
As others have said, the challenge really comes from the wrong places. My main problem with the game is that if you want to get around the overworld fast enough (to go to your missions), you'll want to grab a car, but crash enough and you get cops after you and you die. Considering how bad the vehicles control, it's not fun. I gave up at one of the vehicle missions.
Jak 3 is better in every way imaginable.
Robobandit
Member
Okami is my favorite ps2 game... but I agree about Jak 2.
EmCeeGramr
Member
himuro condemned to the most torturous park of gaming jahannam confirmedHimuro said:
AwakenedCloud
Member
It was by far my favorite in the series. It gave me a challenge that most recent platforming games have failed to do. I hate overworlds for the most part, but nothing ever felt too far away to be a chore. It did everything so well that its probably in my top 20 or so of all time. Jak 3 was a huge disappointment.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
Considering that Precursor Legacy had a better overworld, better level design, better controls, and no screen tearing I'm hard pressed to think of ways in which Jak II could be seriously considered an improvement.GitarooMan said:
You can argue length, but I'd rather play 10-15 hours of a fun (if conventional) platformer than 20-30 of some stinking hodge podge of everything considered "hip" in 2003, especially when it lacks any sense of cohesion or balance. It should be called Jak II: Of All Trades, Master of None. You can sense the team's ambition but it's woefully misguided. On average the experience is uneven in execution, and at times even outright sloppy. That's not to say there aren't some good missions here and there, but you have to wade through shit to get to them.
You could also argue for the increased difficulty, but here too Jak II has no coherent approach. The challenge varies wildly from one level to the next without any real curve or sense of balance, and just as often as not failure during a mission can be attributed to poor design, or in the case of vehicular missions, poor controls and poor design. Precursor Legacy may be too easy for your taste, but at least it has an even sense of progression and the design is airtight in most instances. The same can't be said of Jak II.
As for the story, both are throwaways in my opinion. They both borrow conventions from different types of games. The difference is that the first game keeps the narrative light and airy and feels appropriate to the genre. It gives a framework for the gameplay and then steps out of your way. Sure, it's generic, but at least they're not hitting you over the head with it. Jak II is the opposite. They take characters that were bland platforming mascots to begin with and try to turn the story into some hackneyed dystopian yarn, and the generic silent protagonist into the infinitely worse generic grizzled mercenary. Having taken that left turn Naughty Dog then decides the best course is to take the horribly contrived "badass" angle and throw it in your face constantly.
Jak II is mired in the need to take itself seriously; at every opportunity bringing gameplay to a screeching halt while it blathers on about some laughably bad plot no one gives a rats ass about. While both games are highly derivative at least Precursor Legacy was unobtrusive with its story elements and felt comfortable in it own skin. On the other hand Jak II reeks of effort, and bogs down the segments where it could have shined by forcing all sorts of obnoxious filler in between.
Is it really any wonder that people prefer the first over the second? I don't believe they're lauding its length or fawning over "bright colors". They simply enjoy good design. You know, that crucial element that Jak II often lacks. The "better question", to use your words, is why the love for Jak II given its awful design choices and extreme inconsistency.
