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- Japan Time! The Official Phantom Hourglass (JP) Thread
- Thread starter HylianScribe
- Start date
PolyGone said:
I guess. His complaints about the linearity of the dungeons isn't a real problem to me. Linear or no, the dungeon design, the puzzle design, are top top top notch. Shorter dungeons are even better IMO. They feel so much more concentrated, less like busy work. The great thing about PH is that the things happening outside the dungeons are just as good as the things happening within. They become pretty much seamless. It's like, zelda fans are always wanting more and more and more of what they love, this game says "no, **** you nerdy gluttons, we're gonna focus on tightening the experience so that it's fun."
I keep seeing people downplay the importance of the controls in this thread and it drives me crazy. The controls are amazing, the DS has been waiting for this game. ON TOP of that, the ways they use the DS features are just off the chart awesome.
sp0rsk, waht do you mean the use of DS features are 'off the chart awesome'?
I mean, touch screen controls are spot on and are a real treat for this Zelda game, however, the only cool puzzle I've really seen uses the DS features is the fact you can draw on the map, and it can do stuff, as shown in a dungeon? Is that what you mean or am I getting it completely different.
Also, what was the first Zelda game to incorporate 1/4 of a heart?
I mean, touch screen controls are spot on and are a real treat for this Zelda game, however, the only cool puzzle I've really seen uses the DS features is the fact you can draw on the map, and it can do stuff, as shown in a dungeon? Is that what you mean or am I getting it completely different.
Also, what was the first Zelda game to incorporate 1/4 of a heart?
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
sp0rsk said:
I... I... I think I love you...
I really need to stop coming to this thread. I refuse to get the japanese version, and each time i click on the thread link I see something that hints at how much I'm missing. It's hard waiting for the english release.
HylianScribe
Member
sp0rsk said:
(Note sp0rsk - I'm not directing this at you, but the public - just quoting your thing because it has relevant info I need)
1) I said the dungeons were linear. I said the puzzles weren't hard. That doesn't automatically confirm I feel the dungeon design and/or puzzle design was...well...anything. Some may infer this as I didn't like them. In fact, I'm hardcore 2D Zelda fanatic. In reality, the dungeons, minus some crafty sequence breaks thanks to us speedrunners, are extremely linear in all the Zelda titles. There's an illusion that "you can go left or right" at a fork, thus it is "not linear". Only you find if you go right, you have to come right back and go left anyway. They're aren't, except again for speedrunners, more than 1 way to the finish line in these dungeons. There's typically Path A, which while it may branch around, still goes in one path. It is not like Metroid Prime where you can go around eventually and make your way to areas via different paths rather than going alongset a route that is not negotiable. In fact, not since Zelda 1 have we had any real breakin in linearity. In fact, minus the damn sequence breaking phenomenom, only Zelda 1 is exhibitive of this concept of "non-linear". You do not have to beat dungeons 1-8 in numerical order. There are actually multiple ways to a spot in a dungeon. With each successive Zelda game, this trait has died, so much that it no longer exists and people talk about it in complete ignorance. The only thing Zelda has partially retained is the right to explore the overworld as you see fit. Phantom Hourglass actually did something right. It went back to that damn HIDDEN dungeon mentality. OMGWTFBBQ KTHXBYE. You had to actually EXPLORE a bit to find stuff, though a lot of it was still spoon-fed sadly.
2) As for the controls, here we go. It's nothing more than the Wii all over. You have improved aiming and accuracy, but it doesn't draw you any deeper into the game. In fact, it makes you even more conscious you're playing a game. Part of Zelda is being "Link", and experiencing what he experiences (for those of you still with an imagination left). For all it's been dogged and dissed, the beauty of Zelda has always been in the eye of the beholder, that each person had a unique experience with it because of the way it was designed. That's why you have thousands of rabbid fanboys arguing who Link should end up with, and fangirls who think Link is a girl. That's why you have people arguing when a small bit of Link is changed because those people are the ones who identified with the element changed. In large part, not many "get" what is Zelda, and too many focus on something that isn't ever what Mr. Miyamoto wanted Zelda to become. I've been saying this in respect to the timeline for ages now - if you don't get it, you dont' get the point of what Miyamoto was doing with Zelda. While I do appreciate a great story, the reason I got hooked on Zelda was because of an experience that drew me into the world of Hyrule, and made me believe I mattered in the game. I feel this happens with many fans, and beyond just a game experience, it's a personal experience and that is why despite everything, it's still pretty much the most beloved franchise, so much that Game Developers, Industry Experts, Journalists, Media Types, Fans, Critics, etc...all revere it. Just watch people discuss it. Going back to the controls - congratulations! Nintendogs came out, when? There's already been software to prove DS works. There was no need for Phantom Hourglass to prove the DS works. It also isn't the future of Zelda, but rather, an unique experiment that wasn't perfect, but ultimately very satisfying. Some things worked. Some things didn't. I won't downplay the achievements in control, but it is not the revolution. People are out to make it more than it is and will be, but it was still something significant.
3) As for some of the unique things...did any of you play Trace Memory? Most of the "unique" DS stuff was ripped right out of the game. Blowing on stuff? Closing the DS to "copy" the top screen to the bottom? Writing on objects? Drawing on maps? Trace Memory came out when? It's great Zelda incoporated this stuff, and it is a breath of fresh air to Zelda fans, but again, stop proclaing this as a revolutionary DS title. It's very good, and a unique Zelda title, but don't get too ahead of yourselves. It is standing on the shoulders of some other pioneers, and in essence, the game is still "Zelda". I didn't see one thing in that game that hadn't been tried before with other mechanics.
So before you go spouting off I shouldn't review a certain Zelda title, maybe you should understand a review is nothing more than a crticial opinion. And I feel confident enough my background knowledge of gaming and the Zelda series make me more-than-qualified to effectively judge this title.
2) As for the controls, here we go. It's nothing more than the Wii all over. You have improved aiming and accuracy, but it doesn't draw you any deeper into the game. In fact, it makes you even more conscious you're playing a game. Part of Zelda is being "Link", and experiencing what he experiences (for those of you still with an imagination left). For all it's been dogged and dissed, the beauty of Zelda has always been in the eye of the beholder, that each person had a unique experience with it because of the way it was designed. That's why you have thousands of rabbid fanboys arguing who Link should end up with, and fangirls who think Link is a girl. That's why you have people arguing when a small bit of Link is changed because those people are the ones who identified with the element changed. In large part, not many "get" what is Zelda, and too many focus on something that isn't ever what Mr. Miyamoto wanted Zelda to become. I've been saying this in respect to the timeline for ages now - if you don't get it, you dont' get the point of what Miyamoto was doing with Zelda. While I do appreciate a great story, the reason I got hooked on Zelda was because of an experience that drew me into the world of Hyrule, and made me believe I mattered in the game. I feel this happens with many fans, and beyond just a game experience, it's a personal experience and that is why despite everything, it's still pretty much the most beloved franchise, so much that Game Developers, Industry Experts, Journalists, Media Types, Fans, Critics, etc...all revere it. Just watch people discuss it. Going back to the controls - congratulations! Nintendogs came out, when? There's already been software to prove DS works. There was no need for Phantom Hourglass to prove the DS works. It also isn't the future of Zelda, but rather, an unique experiment that wasn't perfect, but ultimately very satisfying. Some things worked. Some things didn't. I won't downplay the achievements in control, but it is not the revolution. People are out to make it more than it is and will be, but it was still something significant.
3) As for some of the unique things...did any of you play Trace Memory? Most of the "unique" DS stuff was ripped right out of the game. Blowing on stuff? Closing the DS to "copy" the top screen to the bottom? Writing on objects? Drawing on maps? Trace Memory came out when? It's great Zelda incoporated this stuff, and it is a breath of fresh air to Zelda fans, but again, stop proclaing this as a revolutionary DS title. It's very good, and a unique Zelda title, but don't get too ahead of yourselves. It is standing on the shoulders of some other pioneers, and in essence, the game is still "Zelda". I didn't see one thing in that game that hadn't been tried before with other mechanics.
So before you go spouting off I shouldn't review a certain Zelda title, maybe you should understand a review is nothing more than a crticial opinion. And I feel confident enough my background knowledge of gaming and the Zelda series make me more-than-qualified to effectively judge this title.
Edit: Some site is saying PH moved 250,000 copies so far...
Just beat the game. Really enjoyable and easily the second best handheld Zelda, but not quite LA quality. While the main quest is a little short, there's still tons of secrets and optional stuff I haven't quite tackled. I'll say overall the game is easily better than WW, but that's not much of a surprise considering it's very much an evolution of the mechanics they experimented with in WW. It's not anywhere as epic as TP, but has more charm (like WW did). I'll say it's a pretty damn good entry into the Zelda series, and it really shows the difference between an in-house handheld Zelda and a Flagship one.
HylianScribe
Member
CoolTrick said:
It's like The Wind Waker, where many islands have some form of an inhabitant which usually serves a purpose in the game. It felt more connected than The Wind Waker, but that's probably because the world is much smaller than it.
HylianScribe
Member
Jonnyram said:
Sorry, fixed. I didn't say anything beyond the first 1/4th of the game, and I wasn't "too" specific, so I don't think it will ruin much, if anything, by the time you play it. Still, my apologies.
nofilter said:
It almost reduces the game to "point and click", if that's what you mean. Eiji Aonuma achieved his goal; a simpler Zelda title in terms of controls. If you think that's an improvement, so be it. But the manual slashing needs some work. Point and click fighting? Tingle RPG says hi. But at least Phantom Hourglass gives you combat variation in some degree, whereas Tingle RPG was mindless "stylus" tapping. Well, the boss battles had some more variety in Tingle RPG.
The boss battle with Volvagia in Tingle RPG was really unique for a Zelda game, and that final boss battle with Rupeeji was insane, old-fashioned "space-shooter" style!
On the other hand, the item system...that really benefitted from the stylus. Thanks to everyone pointing out the quick-toggle, I am very much in love with the way you use items in Phantom Hourglass. Even though the boss battles were a bit on the easy side, they were still fun. And yes, the dungeons were fun, despite their rather linear design. I also really liked the overworld (despite sailing) in terms of the various locales you go to.
The new postman is awesome...anyone think of Pit from Kid Icarus?
The part when you finally discover Tetra petrified is hilarious, and when he decides to keep helping you (I assume here it is revealed there is no "treasure" on the ship, which is what he was after) made me think of Elite Beat Agents.
I have some criticism with some aspects of the game, but the game definitely does quite a bit right, and the game was fun. I look forward to the next Zelda title, period...whether it be Wii or DS because I think they might finally have the perfect concept after Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass.
Magicpaint
Member
People are saying the game on the whole is short, but how short? Shorter than Minish Cap? For a portable Zelda game, length isn't too much of an issue for me, but if it's around Minish Cap length, then I'm fine.
Also, quick question before my copy arrives: How much mandatory stuff is there to do in between dungeons? If the dungeons are this short, then I hope there are tons of cool stuff to do inbetween them, similar to Link's Awakening.
Also, quick question before my copy arrives: How much mandatory stuff is there to do in between dungeons? If the dungeons are this short, then I hope there are tons of cool stuff to do inbetween them, similar to Link's Awakening.
Magicpaint
Member
duckroll said:
GaimeGuy said:
Excellent.
TheGreatDave
Banned
I'm glad it's not too long. It's coming out at the same time as so many great looking games for the home consoles that I don't want to dedicate 30 hours to every game I buy.
rdellw said:Hey guys, got the game yesterday and have been playing it since, need help from people who completed it.I just got the shovel and have been wondering around for a few hours or so, can anyone point me in the right direction? nothing spoileriffic, just a subtle hint
Try and explore the North West part of the map (second sea chart you should have obtained - if you haven't grabbed that yet then return to the first town's dungeon)
Fried Newt
Member
I picked up the game yesterday, and the whole stylus-only control scheme is just amazing--a real leap forward.
I love how during the game's numerous event scenes I have to hold the DS in one hand while tapping the screen countless times to continue reading the dialogue, and how the developers chose to have the buttons do nothing during these scenes instead of simply allowing me to press them to proceed.
The way the new kanji reading feature works is really cool, too: Since a tap closes the message window, you have to hold the stylus down on top of the word you're trying to read. Of course, if you let go because the stylus in the way, it registers as a tap instead of a press, and then you end up accidentally closing the message you aren't finished reading instead of seeing how to read the kanji. But there's really no way around that without allowing me to use the buttons to close message windows, and why on earth would I want to do that?
Another neat thing is when you want to make Link walk out of a doorway right behind him. Since touching the screen farther away makes him run quickly, and touching the screen nearby makes him walk slowly, the only way to make him walk through the nearby doorway at the edge of the screen involves him moving at the rate my Japanese bank account acquires interest. This allows me to take time to reflect on how much I'm enjoying all of these wonderful innovations, most of which I already experienced in Animal Crossing (which, incidentally, also gave me the option of using the buttons). Sometimes I get a little impatient waiting and instinctively hit the control pad to make the little green f***er hurry his a** up, and this opens a menu. A menu that I could have also opened with the stylus. One of the few things that I would actually want to use the touchscreen for.
Making Link roll is great, too, except that it's not. I can't even pretend that doesn't suck. Whoever came up with the idea of touching the edge of the screen (which makes him start running really fast in that direction) and then drawing a little circle just to roll is an idiot. It takes me about ten tries to get him to roll into a tree. Maybe I'm just incompetent, but 90% of the time he doesn't roll at all, and when he does, he has usually already ran past the thing I wanted him to roll into. I know pressing buttons is last-gen, but how I long for the simplicity of the past!
Stylus-only controls, even in places where buttons would work better: No thanks, guys.
I love how during the game's numerous event scenes I have to hold the DS in one hand while tapping the screen countless times to continue reading the dialogue, and how the developers chose to have the buttons do nothing during these scenes instead of simply allowing me to press them to proceed.
The way the new kanji reading feature works is really cool, too: Since a tap closes the message window, you have to hold the stylus down on top of the word you're trying to read. Of course, if you let go because the stylus in the way, it registers as a tap instead of a press, and then you end up accidentally closing the message you aren't finished reading instead of seeing how to read the kanji. But there's really no way around that without allowing me to use the buttons to close message windows, and why on earth would I want to do that?
Another neat thing is when you want to make Link walk out of a doorway right behind him. Since touching the screen farther away makes him run quickly, and touching the screen nearby makes him walk slowly, the only way to make him walk through the nearby doorway at the edge of the screen involves him moving at the rate my Japanese bank account acquires interest. This allows me to take time to reflect on how much I'm enjoying all of these wonderful innovations, most of which I already experienced in Animal Crossing (which, incidentally, also gave me the option of using the buttons). Sometimes I get a little impatient waiting and instinctively hit the control pad to make the little green f***er hurry his a** up, and this opens a menu. A menu that I could have also opened with the stylus. One of the few things that I would actually want to use the touchscreen for.
Making Link roll is great, too, except that it's not. I can't even pretend that doesn't suck. Whoever came up with the idea of touching the edge of the screen (which makes him start running really fast in that direction) and then drawing a little circle just to roll is an idiot. It takes me about ten tries to get him to roll into a tree. Maybe I'm just incompetent, but 90% of the time he doesn't roll at all, and when he does, he has usually already ran past the thing I wanted him to roll into. I know pressing buttons is last-gen, but how I long for the simplicity of the past!
Stylus-only controls, even in places where buttons would work better: No thanks, guys.
Fried Newt said:
Here we go...
Fried Newt said:
Yeah. Or, right, you could learn Japanese, and you know - read it. If you can read the text, then consider it story, and enjoy yourself.
Fried Newt said:
Hmm. Not sure what you're getting at here - I've never had any problems with the holding/tapping.
Fried Newt said:
Oh I see what you're doing - you don't like the touch controls. Am I close?
Fried Newt said:
Rolling isn't really required though is it? When it is, you need to be running anyway, so...
Fried Newt said:
You're just doing this for the sake of it. Unless you're being post-sarcastic, in which case FUNNIEST POST EVER.
I'm going back to TP, you've ruined it for me.
I gotta chime in and say that multiplayer is insaaaaaaanely fun. My god, running around as the Phantoms is too sweet.
I just got done a match where I blocked my opponent's way with all three of my Phantoms. Each of them guarding an opening... and Link almost got through but he didn't. :lol When I started up as Link, I was lucky enough to get the decoy item, which caused a ghost Link to start running around the level. The decoy actually ran into one of the 'safe zones' and my opponent thought that was the real one but didn't realize it until I had picked up a Triforce and carried it to the endzone. Woot!
We need the first post of this thread to post friend codes! Mine is 292161309037 if anyone wants to add me. If you do add me, PM me with your number so I can add ya!
I just got done a match where I blocked my opponent's way with all three of my Phantoms. Each of them guarding an opening... and Link almost got through but he didn't. :lol When I started up as Link, I was lucky enough to get the decoy item, which caused a ghost Link to start running around the level. The decoy actually ran into one of the 'safe zones' and my opponent thought that was the real one but didn't realize it until I had picked up a Triforce and carried it to the endzone. Woot!
We need the first post of this thread to post friend codes! Mine is 292161309037 if anyone wants to add me. If you do add me, PM me with your number so I can add ya!
EmCeeGramr
Member
How does one use the shield with the controls?
EmCeeGramr
Member
But what if its not a projectile but an enemy attack?duckroll said:
HylianScribe
Member
Finally added more videos, and should have more up tonight through a good portion of the game. I'm trying to get as much done by Thursday because I have to do coverage of Anime Expo Fri-Sun.
Viceroy Fizzlebottom
Member
nofilter said:
Yeah, I think the poster you quoted was going a little overboard but I had to take issue with this little bit. I think there are many people (myself included) who have a pretty solid understanding of Japanese but are either confronted by an uncommon word (神殿 for example) or see a word that they know but either forgot the kanji or can't read it cause the DS is so freaking tiny. And considering the game gives the kanji readings for the benefit of kids playing the game, I think the quoted posters' opinion on this one is still valid. They should've allowed a button to progress the menus and if you wanted to tap, should've limited it only to the flashing down arrow.
But then again, I say that only cause I've sometimes been reading something and not known one kanji compound - and in hopes of finding that out and better understanding the story/hint/humor, have had the entire text block taken away from me. It is frustrating.
HylianScribe
Member
I wish I understood Japanese
on that damn island with the digging for 50 rupees fee, where if you dig past the limit, it warns you several times apparently, then fines you 100 rupees. I thought I was paying for more time. Then bam, 4000 rupees GONE. I wanted to toss my DS, and I hadn't saved in a LONG time.
HylianScribe
Member
Was he talking about remaking it for Wii, or making a TWW-style game for Wii? Well, it doesn't really matter...
A bit off-topic, but tell me something, guys...
I never played Twilight Princess. I got on Wii at launch, never touched it, and sold it off towards a new system when my 360 broke. Is it easy to play through in Japanese? I'm not really having any trouble playing Phantom Hourglass.
I never played Twilight Princess. I got on Wii at launch, never touched it, and sold it off towards a new system when my 360 broke. Is it easy to play through in Japanese? I'm not really having any trouble playing Phantom Hourglass.
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
No no, I DON'T want another Wind Waker for Wii. However, KEEP CEL-SHADING. The EAD team can do ****ing wonders] with that shit, and if they used it to express a better art style than Wind Waker, than they'd have the best looking game ever.
HylianScribe
Member
Playing Twilight Princess in Japanese? I honestly can't answer this because I beat the game in English first, and then played the Japanese version because it came out after the US version. I beat the US Wii version, then the Japanese GCN version, and then the US GCN version.
So...from memory, I don't recall any puzzles that require you to know Japanese...especially in the dungeons. There may be a bit of confusion as to what to do at certain parts because of lengthy exposition sequences, which means you'll just probably have to do trial and error a lot in some areas. I honestly think it is manageable and that most of your troubles will arise from overworld/exploration issues.
Oh yeah, there is on puzzle involving statues that you might not know where to place them...the one where you must return them to their original spots. But visually I think that may be obvious due to the coloring of the "squares" in that part. But as far as dungeons, I don't think it will be an issue.
So...from memory, I don't recall any puzzles that require you to know Japanese...especially in the dungeons. There may be a bit of confusion as to what to do at certain parts because of lengthy exposition sequences, which means you'll just probably have to do trial and error a lot in some areas. I honestly think it is manageable and that most of your troubles will arise from overworld/exploration issues.
Oh yeah, there is on puzzle involving statues that you might not know where to place them...the one where you must return them to their original spots. But visually I think that may be obvious due to the coloring of the "squares" in that part. But as far as dungeons, I don't think it will be an issue.
Brilliant game. My import review is up for anyone interested. Currently working on a scripted/hints guide for the game that should appear on the site soon too.
http://xrl.us/2i56
For highlights (and spoilers)...
http://xrl.us/2i56
For highlights (and spoilers)...
I really like all the puzzle solving. All the scribbling down and trying to figure out puzzles. They're not as hard as Professor Layton but they're fun and more practical to do.
Enemy/boss fighting is easy but fun too because you have to make use of more than one weapon. e.g. Indiana Jones grappling hook to pull away enemy shields or poking their eyes out with the bow first. Stylus actually works great.
Use of DS features is great. First most obvious is all the note taking for puzzles. Some of the uses may not be new such as closing the DS to copy a map or blowing into the DS as someone said (a la Trace Memory) but there are other interesting ways. For example, "calling" over to the little guy on Goron island to extend the bridge, "shouting" loudly to show that you really want the Savage Arm crane and "shouting" to scare big eared monsters before you can hurt them! Brilliant stuff!
Oh and the Wi-Fi Force stealing game is great fun. You have to laugh when you're playing offence and your opponent doesn't know where you're hiding.
Enemy/boss fighting is easy but fun too because you have to make use of more than one weapon. e.g. Indiana Jones grappling hook to pull away enemy shields or poking their eyes out with the bow first. Stylus actually works great.
Use of DS features is great. First most obvious is all the note taking for puzzles. Some of the uses may not be new such as closing the DS to copy a map or blowing into the DS as someone said (a la Trace Memory) but there are other interesting ways. For example, "calling" over to the little guy on Goron island to extend the bridge, "shouting" loudly to show that you really want the Savage Arm crane and "shouting" to scare big eared monsters before you can hurt them! Brilliant stuff!
Oh and the Wi-Fi Force stealing game is great fun. You have to laugh when you're playing offence and your opponent doesn't know where you're hiding.
Chris Michael
Banned
TSA is making me less hyped for the game. (as I once was)
(as I once was)