Sir_Crocodile
Member
Good show by Walker.
polygon is such a joke, man.
polygon is such a joke, man.
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John Walker's anti-BS SimCity news articles.
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Yeah, people who make this analogy tend to forget that advertisers wouldn't be paying for these ads if there weren't viewers to see them, and that sites running ads therefore have to appeal to the readers, or else there would be no readers, and thus no one to target with ads.
If awful journalism is what appeals to readers, well, whose fault is that?
Broder Salsa
Banned
Fantastic article, glad that someone did this when most other "journalists" are busy eating up PR bullshit.
Waiting for Arthur Gies amazing response.
Waiting for Arthur Gies amazing response.
outunderthestars
Banned
Polygon has been a bit of a letdown. I was really excited for the launch, hoping that they would bring a fresh perspective. Sadly it seems like the same bullshit that IGN and Gamespot put out, but in a flashier (and more difficult to use) website.
The only way polygon could not be a letdown would be if you already expected them to be as bad as it gets. They are (somehow) inferior than the worst of ign, kotaku, gamespot et al put together.
He's pretending it didn't happen and now just making the argument that the game just "isn't for them" if they don't like what the game is doing.
Ya, thanks, just realized I didn't/should have done that, got it added(SimCity that is). Assuming it updates after, otherwise I'll have to get a mod to do it.
At least a few more people will read RPS because of this. It is seriously the best gaming news site out there.
Tons of coverage for games that do not even get a mention on the bigger sites, good reviews (without scores I might add) that really tell you what that reviewer actually thought about the game instead of distilling it into a feature list.
Their reviews are not always the most prompt thing out there (they are a PC site so they are at the mercy of when they can get access to the PC version of a game) but they are always informative. For the the big titles where the staff has a different opinion they will sometimes even post a dissenting piece. (John actually did 2 posts about Far Cry 3. One gushing praise, the other read like a hate piece)
Tons of coverage for games that do not even get a mention on the bigger sites, good reviews (without scores I might add) that really tell you what that reviewer actually thought about the game instead of distilling it into a feature list.
Their reviews are not always the most prompt thing out there (they are a PC site so they are at the mercy of when they can get access to the PC version of a game) but they are always informative. For the the big titles where the staff has a different opinion they will sometimes even post a dissenting piece. (John actually did 2 posts about Far Cry 3. One gushing praise, the other read like a hate piece)
Whiteshirt
Member
Considering what The Verge is and the people they hired, this was the only conclusion. The Verge isn't particularly good either unless you're looking for a fairly prompt and complete mainstream tech news respiratory. The reviews rely on presentation rather than solid content (compare their smartphone reviews to, say, Anandtech's) and many of their features have the exact same problem. Its a personality driven site at the end of the day and people who like their reviews are reading them because they feel a connection with the writer's taste. This is literally why you visit Giant Bomb but that's perfectly fine for them because they've made it clear from the start that they are what they are.
You don't need effort or specifics when putting out an opinion when people are willing to accept what you write on the basis that "my tastes are similar to his tastes in games". I don't care what your biases are but you need to explain why that might be the case without sounding like a prat. Really that's the fault of too many game reviews: if I read it, am I any wiser or am I just reading some dude's opinion? Since Polygon is a sister site of The Verge and The Verge is heavily focused on having reviewers post opinions and nothing else, Polygon's failure to bring a fresh perspective isn't unsurprising.
Pureauthor
Member
The really sad part is that a dude who goes 'Uh, what you just said contradicts basic facts' needs to be lauded so much in the world of games journalism.
Kudos to Walker.
Kudos to Walker.
I'm a big fan of his podcast Drum doings. It has nothing to do with Video games but it's still a cool listen.
Ya, good point about poly. The only thing I would add is, I think the reason that all they do is give some dudes opinion, is because that is all they can do. More so then even in most fields is, they just dont know as much in terms of games, then their fanbase, imo. That is a problem if they have the ability to dictate quality in games, to the point of effecting paychecks among the industry.
Saw this on his personal site, hope it hasn't been posted around here yet!
"Keep Up To Date With Polygon’s SimCity Score"
Good stuff
"Keep Up To Date With Polygon’s SimCity Score"
Good stuff
Saw this on his personal site, hope it hasn't been posted around here yet!
"Keep Up To Date With Polygons SimCity Score"
Good stuff
Nah haven't seen that before.
The news is just basic news, the reviews are a mixed bag (depends on the individual reviewer), but I've felt like the features are top-notch. Don't really think many people are putting out features on par with theirs. I see 'em occasionally (LMNO article on 1up, for instance--but that guy works for Polygon now, iirc), but not near often enough. I love that stuff.
Not defending any of their decisions regarding the game, but didn't all the SimCity games have a fudgedpopulation, or something else with the same effect?
4 I believe sim'd the population sorta the same way, but it was patched and modded out, if I remember, pretty quick. The rest of them though, the population was a math equation in regards to how you built your city, I believe. Either way the numbers wernt excessively bloated like they are in 5.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Some of their features are really cool, and for those the layout also serves really well. But in those cases it's probably a lot because they're just reporting on stuff that is interesting in and of itself. Their reviews themselves I don't think I could disagree with more, and the layout becomes more of an nuisance and a spectacle after a while instead of a helpful or intuitive presentation format.
But that's not because these games 'journalists' are failing, it's because they aren't journalists in the first place. Like many other areas, most of these sites are just glorified blogs, aggregating PR releases from the companies in their sector in an attempt to bring in page views, and then they strap varying amounts of editorial on top. That isn't journalism, but it is what the Internet is turning into - in many fields, not just gaming.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
That is the silver bullet that destroys his argument. You're right.
He writes games reviews for a living. Taking the publisher's side in every story is his destiny. If it weren't, he wouldn't have the job to begin with.
Yes. That is the take away from the article. You got him!
ElRenoRaven
Member
You know the more this John Walker guy calls the bs out in the industry the more I'm liking him. We need more journalists like him who aren't afraid to call out the lies and bullshit.
He actually understands that he isn't in the video game industry. Tits like the wankers at Polygon refer to themselves as being in the video game industry all the fucking time. That is a big part of the problem. When you consider yourself in the "industry" you want to protect your home base.
Jeff Green said in the other journalist thread that it irks him too. I know a couple of sports journalists and one who reviews movies, they just call themselves journalists. Why do the gaming press(mostly American) consider themselves in the game industry? They cover the game industry, but they are not part of the game industry, not even close.
Some of Polygon's features are actually great pieces of journalism.
Yes they are. Too bad they get covered in mud when their people act like idiots.
NubCakes09
Member
I applaud John Walker and RPS for being real journalists. It's just disgusting to watch Arthur Gies and other "journalists" acting like glorified PR and getting pissed at people who do actual journalism. When a journalist is the "most hated guy in the industry" you know he's good.
What is it with EA and releasing games in March that piss on the consumer and reveal just how out of touch "games journalism" is?
What is it with EA and releasing games in March that piss on the consumer and reveal just how out of touch "games journalism" is?
Cerebral Assassin
Member
True, but are any of those written by Gies or McEllroy?
Whiteshirt
Member
Which is the crux of the problem isn't it? Their best content has always been secondary, but very interesting, gaming related pieces done by what seem to be contributors and freelancers.
If journalistic integrity was the aim here, Vox Media should follow a journal structure since obviously that's what their USP is right now. But they're here to make money at the end of the day so they're a "mainstream and relevant" gaming website that hired a lot of big names (lol) and used the The Verge as a stepping stone. The fact their features are sometimes very good doesn't solve the problem that their primary content (which is the critical problem with games journalism right now) is just as awful as the majority of content in this industry. A few good features is something a lot of websites can occasionally do, even Kotaku can do it reliably enough, so that's not really something Polygon should be able to hide behind.
If journalistic integrity was the aim here, Vox Media should follow a journal structure since obviously that's what their USP is right now. But they're here to make money at the end of the day so they're a "mainstream and relevant" gaming website that hired a lot of big names (lol) and used the The Verge as a stepping stone. The fact their features are sometimes very good doesn't solve the problem that their primary content (which is the critical problem with games journalism right now) is just as awful as the majority of content in this industry. A few good features is something a lot of websites can occasionally do, even Kotaku can do it reliably enough, so that's not really something Polygon should be able to hide behind.
The cost of booking an ad depends on the statistical amount of visitors a page or site generates. Letting a site dwindle into irrelevancy or helping it thrive is a zero-sum game from the perspective of advertisers. They choose who is compatible with their goals and support them. Compatibility wanes? Support wanes proportionally.
What readers?Guess Who said:
djplaeskool
Member
So much ether...
Delusibeta
Banned
Essentially, Polygon is neo Escapist (pre-Zero Punctuation). The features are worthwhile, everything else is junk. I'd prefer it if they went to the initial model of the Escapist (i.e. nothing but features), but then they'd probably get no money.
Picking a fight with Walker was such a mistake.
Great piece.
I think all of this is true, but fundamentally he's just unable to admit he was wrong and did a poor job. That, I think, is what more primordially triggers a defense mechanism in us all. Yes, he's a cheerleader, no, he's not impartial, and no, he's not critical in any meaningful way, but hell if we aren't all insecure as a society. You want me to admit I did a bad job?
It's so much harder for the features section of the site to pull this routine because there is no real defense for poor writing in that context.
Great piece.
I think all of this is true, but fundamentally he's just unable to admit he was wrong and did a poor job. That, I think, is what more primordially triggers a defense mechanism in us all. Yes, he's a cheerleader, no, he's not impartial, and no, he's not critical in any meaningful way, but hell if we aren't all insecure as a society. You want me to admit I did a bad job?
It's so much harder for the features section of the site to pull this routine because there is no real defense for poor writing in that context.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. That's the problem. You're not in the industry. You're covering the industry. That's a huge difference. Your industry is supposed to be journalism. So many of these PR repeaters forget that and do nothing but repeat the PR they're sent. I don't even call them journalists because they aren't. Most are an extension of the PR machines anymore and it shows. That's why it's so nice to see guys like this calling them out on their bullshit. He has earned the title of journalist. He's actually being critical of the industry he's covering and asking questions that they don't want asked.
Garcia
Member
Don't EVER buy SimCity, even when it's 100% playable. Vote with your wallet against them.
I dunno, when Bradshaw says this to Polygon:
“With the way that the game works, we offload a significant amount of the calculations to our servers so that the computations are off the local PCs and are moved into the cloud. It wouldn’t be possible to make the game offline without a significant amount of engineering work by our team.”
And it goes unchallanged, combined with Arthur, it appears, even if it is just perception it is perception they are fine with. It isn't just that he doesn't like to admit he was wrong, but they have an angle that isn't consumer 1st, but publisher/dev 1st.
ScepticMatt
Member
Ya, I really dont think people realized how bloated the numbers really were. I'm not sure how it could be seen as anything other then trying to convince consumers that the cities are larger then reality vs the older games.
They have some inane and completely retarded tendency to be biased towards the devs and publishers in any situation, it's always just entitled gamers whining, problems are never treated with the seriousness they deserve since they are willing to give publishers the benefit of the doubt in any situation ever "oh it must be so difficult launching a game as big as this, these consumers and gamers just don't understand". Consumers raging about a game being broken with bugs and technical problems? "Well we didn't get those problems (most of the time) so fuck you".
Yup, and with SimCity they have been defending them with slight critiques, that seem like they are not defending them but really are, by reiterating over and over that it isnt the always online DRM that is the problem, but that it wasnt done good enough.
That is essentially telling the consumer what they should be fine with and what they shouldnt.
rohlfinator
Member
Holy carp. I was kinda defending the number fudging earlier but I didn't realize it was so severe. Yeah, that is messed up.
Might be worth (another) new thread: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...ffline-regional-play-easily-done/#more-146044
RPS speaks with the modder.
More in the link.
RPS speaks with the modder.
More in the link.
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