This goes both ways. If a dev wants a better looking game, they'll develop natively on the PS4 first.
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Jonathan Blow Criticizes MSs Claim of Increasing Servers to 300K, Calls It A Lie!
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
- Start date
This goes both ways. If a dev wants a better looking game, they'll develop natively on the PS4 first.
Unless MS uses the leverage of the built in DRM to ensure that the XB1 is the lead develpment platform....
How much of a need is there for non-latency-sensitive computing in gaming? Why would you need to offload "time of day" lighting? It seems the difference between having the cloud computing offloaded would be significant (meaning this is a negative if someone has metered or intermittent broadband or Microsoft decides to turn off the servers at some point) or it's not a big deal (when they disclaim those first two as not big deals.) You can't have it both ways. You can't have it being a big, platform differentiating deal and then NOT raise concerns of whether third parties are going to be able to leverage this (without incurring costs on their end, which would potentially be passed onto us...) and which third parties would leverage this for a multi-platform game? I suspect the answer is "none."
My hunch is this is someone at Microsoft grasping for straws of what they think will be a differentiating factor by the time this generation is done... the problem is, the "factor" isn't in the box that's shipping so if they're really on to something, their competition could conceivably work up something similar... or... like a large portion of the "cloud computing" marketing you'll find out there, it's mostly fluff (pun intended.)
I've just seen no compelling real-world uses for cloud computing to offload processing from a console that seem like something they should be bragging about pre-launch... but if we're talking pie-in-the-sky best-case scenario uses... then I'm sure Xbox One will show Sony how Folding@home is done by curing cancer day one while rendering a nice rosy sunset for millions of gamers to smile at as they drift off into gaming bliss.
My hunch is this is someone at Microsoft grasping for straws of what they think will be a differentiating factor by the time this generation is done... the problem is, the "factor" isn't in the box that's shipping so if they're really on to something, their competition could conceivably work up something similar... or... like a large portion of the "cloud computing" marketing you'll find out there, it's mostly fluff (pun intended.)
I've just seen no compelling real-world uses for cloud computing to offload processing from a console that seem like something they should be bragging about pre-launch... but if we're talking pie-in-the-sky best-case scenario uses... then I'm sure Xbox One will show Sony how Folding@home is done by curing cancer day one while rendering a nice rosy sunset for millions of gamers to smile at as they drift off into gaming bliss.
I can see EA doing this. But for other developers who want to push graphics, they'll develop on the PS4 first.
Agreed. I almost feel like this whole cloud computing talk, in addition to the whole vitality sensor-ish thing they announced, is sounding more and more like the promise Microsoft had of being able to scan my own skateboard using Kinect and all that. I highly doubt that a company, with all the increased expenses associated with next gen game development, will spend additional money to support a feature that's only going to be on one platform...
...unless this was something ridiculously easy to implement and one that makes a lot of sense.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Didn't say they wouldn't.
Ok, let's look at this.
Let's first disregard the fact that it's essentially saying that you can know less if you weigh less. Sadly for tall guys or big guys, that means they need to know a lot more to be worth their weight in gold. Also, let's assume that not every programmer knows the applications of cloud computing, so this metric would be some sort of benchmark to if you do know quite some stuff about programming.
You already came with the $4.5 million. If you're worth your weight in gold, that would mean I'd buy you so I could have you program at my whim for the rest of your life. Or, let's say until retirement to be fair. Average gaming programmer salary is what, $80k? Let's say you're a knowledgeable programmer at the age of 27. You'll be working until you're 67. That's 40 years. That gives the equivalent of $112,5k per year. So I guess there are some that are worth their weight in gold? Maybe if they're young and REALLY knowledgeable.
oldergamer
Member
Distributed computing in relation to GAMES is new. Just like how concurrency in gaming was pretty much unheard of at the start of the previous generation. Nobody is giving anybody a free pass. It's common sense to not call bullshit on something until you have more facts on what exactly is being targeted.
Using the " i can't believe you are defending this" comment is retarded. I'm not "defending" anything, We simply don't have enough information to even formulate an opinion on what they are referring to or trying to achieve yet. Simply saying "well if MS is doing this then they are lying and it won't work" is shoddy thinking when they haven't stated what they are doing. Unless you and a few others here simply want to accuse them of "lying" before you really know what they are lying about? That makes little sense to me.
This is the same as everyone jumping all over them for "not allowing indies to self publish" before they have stated what they intend to do about it, it's the same as jumping all over them for " no used games " before they state what they intend to do about it. I don't see anybody jumping all over sony's claims of possible Gaikai based PS2 backwards compatibility, when they have clearly talked more about that then MS has about cloud functionality.
For the most part when it comes to functionality supported on their consoles, MS has a pretty good track record despite the wort critics. again, all i'm saying is we're making assumptions on what they are doing and then chastising them for it. is that really logical?
dragonelite
Member
That's fine and all, but it was Microsoft who came up with the "essentially your console will be X times as powerful thanks to the cloud" catchphrase. This, for a lot of technical reasons, is utter BS.
Lol. You don't even have to be a programmer, just have a bit of common sense to know using the cloud for latency sensitive applications such as physics, light, and AI is absolutely fucking stupid.
oldergamer
Member
...and perhaps you can show me where MS has said they plan to use the cloud for latency sensitive applications. That's just what I'm saying. They haven't specifically state what they are doing or planning, but you and others are making the worst case assumption that they mean "X". You don't think they have one or two people at Microsoft that already realize that ( that's sarcasm btw )?
dragonelite
Member
They promote the cloud as if it will boost the Xbone with 300% in performance.
That is there pr atleast the headlines read like that.
rohlfinator
Member
Claiming that the cloud makes the Xbone "40x as powerful as the 360" is clearly intended to mislead people into thinking that the cloud gives the Xbone a general power advantage over the PS4. It's the same kind of abuse of numbers as adding bandwidth speeds to claim "X total bandwidth" or claiming that the 360's processor is 3x better than the PS3's (by ignoring the Cell's SPEs).
BruiserBear
Banned
Just read this and stop defending Microsoft's spin.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
oldergamer
Member
MS doesn't state in what context, as I mentioned it's people jumping to conclusions! Perhaps we should wait to see what context they actually mean.
Could it mislead people? possibly? its not misleading me. we won't know exactly what that means until they try to use it in a specific context. That's the point they should be called out on it IMO! Or it's the same as sony claiming shipped as sold, or that ps3 was more powerful then 360 despite real world performance stating otherwise? Actually this isn't the same thing as those instances imo.
I'm not an idiot and I'm not defending Microsoft, despite your spin on what I'm doing. All I've been saying is use some common sense and realize that you can't claim anyone is " lying" until you know the context/method/idea behind what is being talked about. They haven't claimed they were using it for latency sensitive operations, so chastising them for that specifically is nonsensical.
40x isnt happening regardless of the context.
oldergamer
Member
That's not correct. depends on the context. it clearly depends on the data that would be processed by those servers. processing something 40x faster on thousands of servers is possible in theory.
I've got some bridges (along with an Xbox One) to sell to you
oldergamer
Member
I've got some bridges (along with an Xbox One) to sell to you
so you're really doubting its possibly to process data faster in computers in a cluster then it would be for a single computer? I guess folding at home never really happened?
I'm a little curious why people are saying MS must mean this ( this = X) when it's pretty obvious that isn't what they have stated. Too many agendas imo.
Valkyria
Banned
Not sure if serious.
Sentenza
Member
Is this a joke?
actually, it is, the speed of light
lightlamp4
Banned
I dunno really. Its one big PR lie then if this isnt true because Microsoft is heavily advertising this feature. Its the first thing they said when they revealed the Xbox one http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-bFVptu6QbY#t=337s
Continuously improving as they said. Which was described in the wired article i think as using the cloud to keep the performance up to date.
Continuously improving as they said. Which was described in the wired article i think as using the cloud to keep the performance up to date.
rohlfinator
Member
If I run a Google search it doesn't mean that my computer is as powerful as hundreds of thousands of servers combined.
For the last hour, Blow has been ranting about RAM. Go check it out if your interested;
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow
https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
How does this make sense? The Witness uses 5GB+ of RAM but it doesn't fit in PS4 without streaming?
How does this make sense? The Witness uses 5GB+ of RAM but it doesn't fit in PS4 without streaming?
He was responding to someone who said that their whole game can fit within RAM. Blow is just saying they still have to resort to a bit of streaming, implying his game will be larger than the amount of RAM allocated.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
He said his game takes 5+GB and it needs streaming on PS4.
So is he confirming he only has access to 5GB?
these tweets are unrelated.
They are unrelated tweets. He is saying you can't fit an entire game on to the memory alone, so some streaming is still necessary. Most of these games will likely still be over 7GB in actual size. Obviously bigger games will be much much more. 30+GB etc.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
I totally believe they are going to have 300k servers... how else are they gonna manage their DRM policies
Well... yeah. I mean... yeah.
Does anyone out there really believe this?
Come on. It's like a bad infomercial: "Buy one Xbox One and we'll throw in 300,000 XBOX ONES FOR FREE!" I can potentially see some applications for this, but in Call of Duty? No way. In Assassin's Creed? Nope. For what?
Does anyone really think their Xbox needs to outsource the AI of childishly simplistic bots that point and shoot, or the physics on some crappy ragdolls, or the corona on some meaningless lens flare? Or that it's feasible to package up the world state of your game, shove it all off onto the internet, wait for it to arrive at the server, wait for it to get queued up and processed, wait for it to get packaged back up and shoved back on the interwebs, received, unpacked, processed, and finally output to your screen?
It's just not useful for 99.999% of games, even if Microsoft is building a massive server farm.
Maybe someone will come up with some crazy MMO or some nice persistent state world, where it actually will be useful to do a lot of off-console processing and all, but right now? Complete BS.
And the likelihood of someone actually making some crazy persistent state world that does lots of crazy AI stuff is further unlikely. We have the ability to do persistent state worlds and crazy AI RIGHT NOW, and we have for years. Universities were doing crazy AI experiments in the 80s. The reason we don't have an AI focus right now is because it's easier to put a vest on a dog, fill your game with cutscenes and explosions, and go ONLINE MULTIPLAYER DEATHMATCH. Boom, 20 million copies sold.
Most gamers don't have any knowledge about networking or programming, how hard could it be to make them believe that cloud computing will automagically make games better ?
Doesn't "power of the cloud" sounds impressive ?
Most gamers probably don't know about virtualization either, it's the same thing.
Doesn't "power of the cloud" sounds impressive ?
Most gamers probably don't know about virtualization either, it's the same thing.