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[Nerolex]

Gaf really needs some kind of wall of shame. I can't keep up with all those racists and idiots. A wall of glory would be nice too, with people that are neutral or have a pro humanity kinda view.

So this is where we are at now? Throw everything into a bowl, blacklist people with differing opinions? Surely, that will show them!

How, exactly, is TotalBiscuit in this the same as JonTron? Did all of you listen to his comment from beginning to end? I listened to both of TBs comments and essentially what he's saying is:

1) You are not going to change peoples opinions by attacking them
2) Therefore, we have to find out why people got to that opinion and enter a reasonable discourse with them.

You can argue against these points. But I can't see how this puts him in the same category. If we keep this 'we against them'-mentality, we will never solve the problem this society has. We have to talk to the people of the 'other side', not ignore them.

 

[Kyzon]

I don't like to play police or make people change their opinions, if you want to unsub do it, but do not try to make people think the same way you do, because that's just plain wrong.
You can try to discuss it, but throwing shit and name-calling is straight-up harassment.
If you don't like someone's opinion, just ignore him/her, simple.

Keep it civil guys.

FOH with this. The opinion that someone is lesser than you due to them being born with different features, a different color, etc. is definitely wrong. Anyone disagreeing can cash me outside. How bow dah?

Spoiler

That damn song has been stuck in my head, but my point remains minus the cashing me outside.... Unless you bout that life

 

[PMS341]

Violence may not be the answer, but hateful rhetoric spread by those with influence (such as, say, famous Youtubers) should 100% be condemned, as that rhetoric will spread harassment far beyond whatever they personally receive. Don't normalize hate.

 

[ScientificPizza]

There is a difference between calling someone out (like I did, in this thread, multiple times) and:

...this guy was promoting white nationalism and proclaiming black people are genetically wired to commit crimes. People are going to react and push back to that, that does not mean that they are bordering anywhere near the kind of rhetoric Jon was using.

 

[V_Arnold]

Oh wow. Gees I hope no one pays attention to him. Such harassment! Are you fucking serious? What are people allowed to say according to you when Jon calls them people with inferior genes that aren't allowed to mix with the superior white people? You're really concerned that people are saying they hope no one pays attention to him!?!?!

Mate, we are obviously not talking about the same context here. I am talking about the framework that TotalBiscuit devoted nearly an hour to explaining (of which like 5 minutes is about Gizmodo), not the framework of how JonTron MUST SUFFER FOR HIS SINS.

Anyway, Ill let myself out, because clearly I have just given a target over my head for not continuing hating on JonTron (which is something I did a fair amount in this thread, it is not edited out.)

...this guy was promoting white nationalism and proclaiming black people are genetically wired to commit crimes. People are going to react and push back to that, that does not mean that they are bordering anywhere near the kind of rhetoric Jon was using.

Again: JonTron basically consumed the GG/Breitbart/Trump propaganda. You will not stop that propaganda by fighting individuals that bought into them.

 

[MKIL65]

Ofc we shouldn't, just don't become what you are trying to fight.

MichaelJordanLaugh.gif

 

[Orayn]

There is a difference between calling someone out (like I did, in this thread, multiple times) and:

What's wrong with what I want? I think his disgusting views should wreck his career and whatever little credibility he had. Reasonable people should see his behavior, think "Yeah, fuck that" and tune him out.

Unfortunately we do live in the Trump era where xenophobia is cool and mainstream, but I can still want to live in a world where things are better and he doesn't get a pass.

 

[BaasRed]

I don't think that black people are crime hungry or that foreigners entering "the gene pool" is a bad thing, kinda hard for me to become the thing I'm against.

Yeah this type of shit is inexcusable and I'm not that shocked his friends can't come to terms with what he said and are trying to sweep it under the rug. It's getting exhausting how often people get away with this shit.

 

[Murkas]

Anime avatar...

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Mate, we are obviously not talking about the same context here. I am talking about the framework that TotalBiscuit devoted nearly an hour to explaining (of which like 5 minutes is about Gizmodo), not the framework of how JonTron MUST SUFFER FOR HIS SINS.

Anyway, Ill let myself out, because clearly I have just given a target over my head for not continuing hating on JonTron (which is something I did a fair amount in this thread, it is not edited out.)

What did you think Destiny did for an hour with Jon already? People are allowed to call out Jon as much as they want. When he says that shit people are allowed to respond

 

[Fat4all]

Anime avatar...

*knowing-nod*

 

[Breads]

This is dangerously close to the rethoric of what JonTron used "against" Destiny in their talk, to be honest. Read back my posts in this thread, and educate yourself on my opinion on JonTron's views. I am just saying that no amount of stupdity (that a quite sizeable amount of the US proudly displayed in the last election) makes someone's harassment "deserved".

And TB's point is right. It should be more important to disprove those bullshit statistics instead of attacking the person who delivered these ideas.

This is dumb. There is nothing unfair about addressing what he said directly. That is not harassment or a witch hunt.

 

[RustyNails]

Ofc we shouldn't, just don't become what you are trying to fight.

Oh suddenly I am going to become a fucking Nazi while arguing against this fuckface's racist hysteria.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Again: JonTron basically consumed the GG/Breitbart/Trump propaganda. You will not stop that propaganda by fighting individuals that bought into them.

Why is it my responsibility to educate racists

 

[jay]

If the person you have a problem with has opinions, don't become like him by having opinions as well.

 

[V_Arnold]

Why is it my responsibility to educate racists

Because bashing their skulls just gets Trump elected, that is why.

 

[rakkadakka]

I don't see how calling his statements bs are harassment

even you called them bs

I honestly wonder if the same people who claim that "harassment is never right" spoke up during gamersgate.

It's certainly possible but I doubt it.

 

[SomTervo]

Reminds me of a Robert Yang lecture the other day:

Do you have a link to that?

(Love that slide)

 

[PMS341]

1) You are not going to change peoples opinions by attacking them
2) Therefore, we have to find out why people got to that opinion and enter a reasonable discourse with them.

1) Attacking, no. Calling out and forcing those who spread hate speech to take responsibility for their words and actions? Most definitely.
2) People got to that opinion because of hundreds/thousands of psychological reasons, but in this context it is painfully obvious that these "opinions" are meant to appease /pol/ and the like, as they circulate between Breitbart, Stormfront, Infowars, etc.

 

[Piccoro]

I'm sure his immigrant parents would be proud of those statements...

 

[Sou Da]

So this is where we are at now? Throw everything into a bowl, blacklist people with differing opinions? Surely, that will show them!

How, exactly, is TotalBiscuit in this the same as JonTron? Did all of you listen to his comment from beginning to end? I listened to both of TBs comments and essentially what he's saying is:

1) You are not going to change peoples opinions by attacking them
2) Therefore, we have to find out why people got to that opinion and enter a reasonable discourse with them.

You can argue against these points. But I can't see how this puts him in the same category. If we keep this 'we against them'-mentality, we will never solve the problem this society has. We have to talk to the people of the 'other side', not ignore them.

Destiny talked to "the other side" and the only thing it prompted TB to do was make two blogs to deflect from the attention that talk got.

 

[Feep]

There's a difference between trying to convince, and making someone think something.

Seeing as how we do not have literal mind control devices, words are the manner in which you attempt to make someone think something. It's a semantic difference with no meaning. If you argue your idea, you are attempting to convince someone to see your point of view; i.e., change their patterns of thought.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

You gotta have some strange machinery going on upstairs to come into a thread with this title and OP and start chastising people for taking offense with Jafari's racist, easily disproven bullshit

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Because bashing their skulls just gets Trump elected, that is why.

No that's bullshit. Don't push this on to other people. Jon's opinions are no ones responsibility but his own. No one here owns Jon or tells him what to do. It is his responsibility not to say shit that like you don't get to make it anyone else's

 

[Galava]

*knowing-nod*

Anime avatar...

I just explained myself with poorly chosen words (not native english speaker) and sometimes I might sound... i don't know hwo to phrase it. Sorry for not being able to keep up.

 

[Infinite]

Because bashing their skulls just gets Trump elected, that is why.

Nope

 

[Imp the Dimp]

I'm sure his immigrant parents would be proud of those statements...

Yeah. And how will he not dilute the gene pool if he procreates?

 

[Real Hero]

Guys leave the racist alone

 

[Ozigizo]

Because bashing their skulls just gets Trump elected, that is why.

LOL

Nah, ignoring their existence did that.

 

[Fat4all]

I just explained myself with poorly chosen words (not native english speaker) and sometimes I might sound... i don't know hwo to phrase it. Sorry for not being able to keep up.

the 'anime-avatar' thing is a separate issue, tho not dissimilar to the situation

 

[ScientificPizza]

Because bashing their skulls just gets Trump elected, that is why.

Shut up, man. I'm not going to start coddling racists and spoon feeding them basic moral values in a hope that they'll slowly soften to their aggressively hateful worldview. That's stupid af.

The both sides argument is what got Trump elected. The narrative of "they're both as bad as each other" is what got Trump elected. It wasn't that we weren't nice enough to the racists.

 

[Coriolanus]

Ofc we shouldn't, just don't become what you are trying to fight.

How can one become a white supremacistas by attacking a white supremacist for being a white supremacist?

This is some "no John, you are the demons" shit.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Guys leave the racist alone

He's not responsible for his actions guys! Blame the media not him! /s

 

[Galava]

the 'anime-avatar' thing is a separate issue, tho not dissimilar to the situation

Oh, ok. I mean, where did I go wrong with that?

 

[V_Arnold]

Shut up, man. I'm not going to start coddling racists and spoon feeding them basic moral values in a hope that they'll slowly soften to their aggressively hateful worldview. That's stupid af.

The both sides argument is what got Trump elected. The narrative of "they're both as bad as each other" is what got Trump elected. It wasn't that we weren't nice enough to the racists.

Oh, that is cool, man. You have basically proven TB's point.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Guys leave the racist alone

Sorry man I wasn't thinking of how the racist felt

 

[Nepenthe]

Destiny had a reasonable discourse with JonTron. JonTron dodged, ignored, and laughed him off. A conversation is a two-way street, and bigots tend to want to hog the entire road.

No one in the real world is obligated to sit adults with access to nearly all of human knowledge down and walk them through why saying I'm a negative effect on the gene pool isn't okay before writing them off, anymore than a manager is obligated to sit down with an employee and explain why doing a line of coke on the job is wrong before immediately terminating them. Actions have immediate consequences in the real world and, in the spirit of alt-right douchelords, feeling sorry for bigots doesn't mean shit.

No one is owed forgiveness. No one is owed second chances. No one is owed the benefit of the doubt. No one is owed a friendly conversation. All that is owed is justice to minorities right now regardless of whether or not everyone in the majority comes into tree 21st century. Civil rights, gay marriage, suffrage, and other landmark demonstrations of moral thinking did not occur with a 100% conversion rate. Some people are inevitably going to be left behind. Oh fucking well.

JonTron can go fuck himself. His sympathizers can also fuck off and have another talk with him if they actually care about the issues at hand versus stanning for yet another white male bigot out of misplaced empathy.

 

[televator]

But the amount of hate he's receiving from everyone with pitchforks is not even worth it or right.

Should we be... tolerant of his intolerance?

 

[GiantBombGamer]

Never heard of the fellow till now, but he's an ignorant, deluded young man isn't he?

 

[Ozigizo]

Oh, that is cool, man. You have basically proven TB's point.

No, you've basically proven that you've entered this discussion in bad faith.

 

[HazySaiyan]

FYI, calling out someone with a certain level of celebrity and influence for being a racist is not a 'witch hunt' or 'harassment'.

 

[Sou Da]

Oh, ok. I mean, where did I go wrong with that?

You didn't. That guy is either joking or making a poor judgement call about something as petty as your avatar.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Oh, that is cool, man. You have basically proven TB's point.

So after watching what happened when someone actually honored Jafari for two hours you still think it's other people's fault he's an idiot?

 

[Mathiassen]

Harrassment is never the answer, it just pushes people further to the right. Instead dont listen and explain in a non-condecending way how their views are wrong and hateful. The second you start yelling or telling people off you've lost.

I like Jontron's content it's fantastic, and i hope his beliefs change. But as long as he keeps his political views out of his content i'll continue watching.

 

[Fat4all]

Oh, ok. I mean, what did I go wrong with that?

it doesn't have anything to do with you specific argument.

just with how some arguments go in general.

 

[Breads]

Oh, that is cool, man. You have basically proven TB's point.

Quit the tone policing nonsense. This is what your posts basically amount to. It's been posted before but it bears repeating - we've seen this stance before.

 

[Darryl M R]

Because bashing their skulls just gets Trump elected, that is why.

That's some stupid logic. Like incredibly stupid.

Top tier meme logic there.

 

[guybrushfreeman]

Oh, that is cool, man. You have basically proven TB's point.

Not even a little bit. These people are responsible for themselves no one else is responsible for them. You don't get to say some people are genetically inferior and then fall back on 'it's not me! It's the media!'

 

[Galava]

Should we be... tolerant of his intolerance?

Nope.

Don't mind what I said, my arguments where shit and now that I think about it make no sense with what I was really trying to say.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Oh, that is cool, man. You have basically proven TB's point.

What are you talking about

(also please just ignore the rest of the post dw about it it's not like you're deflecting at all)