No its fucking not.
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JonTron (youtuber) speaks against demographic "invasion" of America by nonwhites
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guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Have you really read up on what he said?
Gold Feather
Banned
It's not about "educating" anyone it is about dismantling their arguments.
Violence begets violence and that view is really childish.
Silver Arrows
Banned
Look at what Jontron is spewing out. This is hardcore, Stormfront level of racist bigotry. You are not converting him from his views, ever. The fact that he had a two hour 'debate' which consisted of him regurgitating said talking points is proof that he doesn't care about changing.
So once again, stop. You obviously either don't know what Jontron is saying, or more and likely, you don't care and you are trying to downplay it. Don't. This is hardcore racism. It shouldn't be excused. It should be stomped out from the face of the Earth.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
As has been repeatedly pointed out, the two-hour conversation this thread is about *was* the civil attempt.
and that guy gets worse. WTF. the hell is wrong with people. Stop trying to normalize racism, stop trying to coddle racists or say "they didnt articulate what they wanted to say right", it's still racism no matter how people want to cut it.
Yo this level of getting angry at apologists can't possibly be good for my health
Edit: look at these morons that reply to Jim,
lmao, "we don't know him so we can't judge". People absolutely can judge him for the things about himself he chooses to put out in the open. Yeah I don't know what it's like to have a conversation with him but I do know what his thoughts on black people are because he said them.
If you walk around Japan, you'll see plenty of people wear clothes that are most certainly fashioned in the same mold as the rest of the developped countries.
America is inviting?
Are you for real?
Do you know how fucking hard it is to come into the US?
How hard it is to work and settle there?
Out of all the English speaking + European countries it is the hardest to be able to settle and the hardest it is to even enter by an order of magnitude.
It is easier to learn Japanese than it is to be able to live in the US (and would probably take less time too)
They're as mad about US movies being spread there they are about soldier bases.
Listen man, unless someone casts the first stone, I don't believe in not trying to settle things with words first and foremost. Someone could literally come up to me and say he hates my guts and wants me and all my kind dead, if it's just words then that's all they need back.
All you guys claiming discourse isn't the first course of action you should take in a civilised society are seriously upsetting.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Guess who's now a laughing stock:
who's now actually afraid to spread his rhetoric,
and constantly losing credibility among his own allies.
Gee, it's almost like this shit actually works or something.
The idea that minorities should discuss their rights with those actively working to take them away is wrong.
"reasonable internet personalities supporting him"
Yeah... like, wait who exactly? TB? /r/the_donald?
Pull your head out of your ass please.
Silver Arrows
Banned
THIS IS HARDCORE RACISM JONTRON IS SPEWING OUT, THERE IS NO SUCH THING IS CIVILITY WITH THESE ASSHOLES
How dense do you have to be? Let me guess, you are being this painfully obtuse, right?
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
So no then. You need to read everything. He cast a hell of a lot more than the first stone here. No one said discourse is not the first course of action. This is about what he said during a long well reasoned discourse. I am begging you to read or watch his debate before continuing to comment.
Edit: I am completely serious. If you'd like to see what discourse with Jon looks like it is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM
This discourse is literally the topic of the thread you continue to post in. I thank you for your views and contribution to this thread but you really have to be familiar with the things he actually said.
and that guy gets worse. WTF. the hell is wrong with people. Stop trying to normalize racism, stop trying to coddle racists or say "they didnt articulate what they wanted to say right", it's still racism no matter how people want to cut it.
Yo this level of getting angry at apologists can't possibly be good for my health
Edit: look at these morons that reply to Jim,
I need to go of Gaf for a bit. This makes me irrationally angry.
Have you messaged JonTron yet with your logical arguments about why basically his entire sociopolitical worldview is wrong?
I look forward to hearing of your success in converting him to empathy.
Dude, I'm from Canada, that place where people are suppose to be easy going, and what JonTron said was so much racist bigotry that it dumbfounded me, but what upsets me a hell lot more is when I see people like you trying to wave off peoples issues with it. What he said was ugly and wrong, that simple. No there isn't a debate if it was or not, IT IS.
PS
It is never wrong to punch a nazi.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Not to change subjects but someone like Richard Spencer gettimg punched in the face is not the hill you should die on. It says more about you than any response you could possibly type.
the remaining part of "who he is" is whatever he thought he couldn't say out loud because it would "incriminate himself."
mclem said:
oh damn lol
What other English speaking countries have you been to? London is full of different races and cultures but we're all very segregated and cliquey. Anyway I was just trying to be rosy about America for the sake of being positive, it wasn't my main point. My main point was about how Japan isn't very inclusive.
And no, Japanese fashion is very different from American fashion. VERY different. Even when it comes to casual clothes, the men and women dress very different in japan, when it comes to actual fashion... you couldn't get away with that in any other country.
Have you ever actually been to japan?
Tokyo is the most inclusive city in japan and even then you'll be hard pressed to find an indian restaurant in the entire place.
Sure technology and the like and the like are now internationally shared, but you're really stretching if you're going to start calling that "american culture"
Gotdatmoney
Member
Yes yes. Please don't let the blacks and Mexicans dilute the prescious white gene pool. Tell us more about how black lives matter is a hate group.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
The recent series of events (starting with the satisfying punch to Richard Spencer) has taught me two things about some people who claim to be "moderate" or "apolitical." Warning: If you catch any sort of feelings about the general trends I'm about to describe, then maybe you should take a good hard look in the mirror. Also, #notallmoderates, or whatever.
1) A moderate is supposedly a moderate because their individual political stances/ideals do not subscribe to either side of the duality. It's supposed to be a position that takes great self awareness and a powerful moral compass to maintain.
I now see that there are many people who falsely indulge in the term "moderate," while the political debate steady slides to the right. Instead of maintain their moral compass, they simply slide to the right, in an effort to maintain their "both sides" are guilty narrative. These people are seriously asking their peers to condone blatant hateful racism, seeking to normalize it. This means these people are more devoted to staying "moderate" and in the middle, no matter where it goes.
These people aren't interested in maintaining their personal moral compass. These people just want to keep their hands clean, and absolve themselves of any personal responsibility to take a stand for anything.
(Note: This logic also applies to more than individual persons. This applies to many MSM outlets prior to the election. Thankfully some of them have become more bold, and have kicked their heels into the ground)
2) A much shorter point, and a much more recent revelation: The Bystander Effect extends to the internet.
People love giving advice about how to engage hateful bigots with "civility" but are nowhere to be seen in these times when their techniques could actually be applied.
1) A moderate is supposedly a moderate because their individual political stances/ideals do not subscribe to either side of the duality. It's supposed to be a position that takes great self awareness and a powerful moral compass to maintain.
I now see that there are many people who falsely indulge in the term "moderate," while the political debate steady slides to the right. Instead of maintain their moral compass, they simply slide to the right, in an effort to maintain their "both sides" are guilty narrative. These people are seriously asking their peers to condone blatant hateful racism, seeking to normalize it. This means these people are more devoted to staying "moderate" and in the middle, no matter where it goes.
These people aren't interested in maintaining their personal moral compass. These people just want to keep their hands clean, and absolve themselves of any personal responsibility to take a stand for anything.
(Note: This logic also applies to more than individual persons. This applies to many MSM outlets prior to the election. Thankfully some of them have become more bold, and have kicked their heels into the ground)
2) A much shorter point, and a much more recent revelation: The Bystander Effect extends to the internet.
People love giving advice about how to engage hateful bigots with "civility" but are nowhere to be seen in these times when their techniques could actually be applied.
So, to answer my question, no? Ok.
The hell, where did I say it wasn't ugly and wrong?
You guys are making it sound like I agree with him. All I'm saying is that if you disagree with someone you should try and talk to them first.
And no, I wouldn't punch a Nazi, as horrible as his views are I don't have any right to.
Thelonelykoopa
Member
He just got finished reading "The camp of saints" and forgot that it wasn't real life for a moment lol.
Out of interest, which concerns does he have that you can relate to?
I don't see what your point is. The reason this thread exists is because someone did try and talk to him about this stuff and the conversation went on for two hours and ended with Jon looking a hell of a lot worse than he did at the start.
Can't lay everything on the Turks for reacting so violently when the Armenians insisted on escalating the argument. Both sides are to blame.
Silver Arrows
Banned
And we have told you, countless times, that with someone presenting this hardcore of a racist thought process, talking to them is pointless.
So yes, you agree with him, considering how much you are banging that drum. We can see through your transparent nature in regards to this.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Here is a video of someone spending over an hour talking to Jon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RQA9GZprqM it is the topic of this thread. Please do not continue to ignore the actual topic of the thread you are posting in
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Because they're founded on generalizations, exaggerations, baseless claims and outright lies. They're built on the idea that almost everyone from a certain country, religion or ethnicity are immigrating with the sole intent of fucking up their destination country or converting it or committing crime or some such nonsense. That is demonstrably false. Single and infrequent events are blown out of proportion to incite fear and backlash against entire groups and manipulate people emotionally into treating fellow citizens and non-citizens alike as enemies and somehow inferior.
"Protect" means to keep safe/defend from harm. These people believe the mere existence of an immigrant is harmful, regardless of whatever else they do, or that "good" immigrants aren't worth it because they're outnumbered by bad, so let's ban them all. The facts say otherwise. Hyper-nationalists don't give a shit about facts.
Respectful, positive treatment of people is a good way to combat negative preconceptions, contempt or even hate, especially when we're talking about multiple generations, and benefits societies on national, regional and global levels. This is simply indisputable and it should not even be a fucking debate in 2017. The fact that humans suck so much at grasping this concept is not evidence of it somehow being incorrect.
We still punish immigrants who break laws and this has nothing to do with somehow allowing them not to adhere to local, legal standards. I feel compelled to bring that up because it relates to a persistent and bullshit claim that some people want to let immigrants break the law or that they care more about the legal rights of an immigrant than a native. Fucking infuriating, made-up shite.
I'll say this: if we had the chance to see Earth in 500, 600, 1000 years from now, no doubt hyper-nationalists and their ilk would off themselves immediately. The world of the future will eventually abandon this pathetic clinging to and obsession with nationalism and cultural, religious, even genetic purity. I take comfort in knowing that, despite how long it will take. It is simply inevitable.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Well as we've seen so far in this thread discourse didn't work out so what's next?
The guy is spewing racist shit and we are all supposed to sit down and ignore him and hope he gets a change of heart? What kind of reasoning is that? I'm not saying we should physically attack or threaten him but everyone here has a right to reject and condemn him for what he's saying. Condemning racism and intolerance in all its forms is what every decent human being in this planet should do. Imagine if the world attacked and condemned Hitler's fascism and racism back in the day instead of initially ignoring it like they did? I imagine we would be living in a much better and different world than we are living in right now.
Should probably add that Shane and Dazz from DYKG are having a Twitter tussle with the writer of the Gizmodo article for implying that Jon has any control or influence over the channels on NormalBoots. Both them and Jirard seem to want no association with any of what transpired. Make of it what you will.
pizzaparty
Member
You can understand the fear that immigration is diluting the racial purity of America?
You can understand the premise that black people are predisposed to committing crime?
Equating the slaughter of over a million people to some shit a youtuber said is the most pathetic thing I've seen on this thread so far.
"Should" an officer talk to someone in the midst of an armed robbery before arresting them?
"Should" an employer talk to their employee about the sex they're having on the job before firing them?
"Should" I as a black American talk to a racist who believes I should be dead?
Not the defense, dismissal, and coddling of racism?
Silver Arrows
Banned
That's pretty much your thought process in this thread at the moment.
But of course, we're the pathetic ones. Not you, who is doing a runaround job of defending a guy spewing pretty racist shit.
Gold Feather
Banned
It's disingenuous to conflate the refugee crisis in Europe and immigration in the US.
The main difference is, refugees were flooding into European countries, in some areas changing over 5% of the receiving countries population. In the US, immigrants are trickling in by the tens of thousands, and we are more well equipped at integrating new populations.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
Why will you not actually read up on the things Jon said or watch the video of his debate?
So when the police,medical personal and public transportation are to afraid to enter certain zones of a city, things aren't fucked up? whats your take on this?
its an alt account, one with less than 100 posts in 3 years, and just so happens to pick now to restart activity and driveby post support for vile racism.
My take, is that you are an alt account troll, "just asking questions" using noncredible sources. Let met guess where you found out about these no-go zones? BrietBart? Fox News?
EchoChamber
Member
I'm just really disappointed in Jon 
I really liked the guy and his content.
I really liked the guy and his content.guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
FinaruDensetsu
Member
It's pretty scary that some of the most popular youtubers that loads of very young people watch are like this. I mean these Youtube shows for kids these days are akin to Reading Rainbow and Mr. Roger's Neighborhood back when I was a kid, as in shows I'd watch religiously.
I fear that we're going to have a new generation of young adults who have all had racism normalized for them from a very young age. Great...
I fear that we're going to have a new generation of young adults who have all had racism normalized for them from a very young age. Great...
EmmaWatsonButt
Member
It's noble idea to educate the misinformed and bigoted, but it's hard to do so in a case like JonTron who snickers smugly when he's confronted with dissenting viewpoints grounded in evidence, or even from the grounds of fairness and empathy.
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