Triggerhappytel
Member
Ha ha, seriously.
Also, it's incredibly ironic to call white Europeans the USA's "founding stock" and give no consideration to Native Americans.
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JonTron (youtuber) speaks against demographic "invasion" of America by nonwhites
- Thread starter Cerium
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Ha ha, seriously.
Also, it's incredibly ironic to call white Europeans the USA's "founding stock" and give no consideration to Native Americans.
chromatic9
Member
Jon had plenty of time. Destiny was quiet and polite throughout and gave him many chances but Jon couldn't articulate himself. I have to commend Destiny for not resorting to insults and screaming.
How is this relevant?
It's common knowledge that there's a problem with birth rates in japan. Hell they even release anime that promote marriage in an effort to help it ("I don't know why my husband is saying" its funny).
I'm not saying it's good or bad, I'm just making a statement. Japan isn't very inviting to foreign culture, aside from some black people in Harajuku you won't find many people of other races around.
The common consensus in japan is that the emasculation of men in japan is what's causing the decline of marriage, an increase in NEET men is a real problem over there, and women are very shallow and usually look for rich and successful men to marry.
grim-tales
Member
Lots of people in there (2nd link?) trying to defend what Jon said "blown out of proportion" etc... :s "Legitimite issues" my God....
He needs to realise what he said was disgusting and why.
Gormenghast
Member
Education's job is not to hide unwanted things, but to offer tools to deal with them consciously. Through exposition instead of evasion.
If anything, by hiding alone you're making your kid more exposed to that influence. As soon he's out of the house he's completely defenseless because he's been living in an aseptic environment.
EatinOlives
Member
To answer your question simply: because this already happened. Europeans invaded the Americas, had open contempt for the natives living here, not only diluted but outright DESTROYED the culture existing here, installed their own government, religion, economic structure, and civilization aimed solely for their benefit and not the people they destroyed.
If you're that worked up about "cultural dilution by immigrants" you better be the biggest advocate for naive American rights if you want to be consistent. You wouldn't even ENTERTAIN the idea of applying that to the descendants of European conquerors.
ScientificPizza
Banned
You answered the question yourself. The idea of founding stock is inherently against the idea of immigration as it will eventually dilute that stock, regardless of how quickly those immigrants migrate
From the beginning of the European colonisation of America it has been a diverse nation, though the ruling class was white, so when you think founding stock you think white people. It's a racist idea built on the back of white supremacist ideals.
There is absolutely no reason to believe that an increase in immigration will lead to the destruction of "American culture", whatever the fuck that is. If Native American culture has survived to this point then American culture will be just fine, regardless of how many immigrants are allowed into the country
Protecting white culture, protecting founding stock, and white nationalism are all just forms of white supremacy that have been dressed up to be presentable in the public conversation. When you look past the window dressing it is little more than bottom of the barrel racism
You should always try
Deactivision
Member
Maybe you didn't read the part where I mentioned that we talk a lot, in an ongoing way, about what sort of attitudes and content are appropriate, and that he has, in my opinion, internalized strong values. Otherwise I agree with you.
I am shocked. That escalated quickly.
If someone ever busts in my house with a gun I'll be sure to make tea and pull out a chair for them.
The age-old conscious assumption of superiority is born from ignorance. As a society, we are far better off than we were even 50 years ago because of the abolitionists, et al. We undoubtedly have a long way to go, but to say that there hasn't been significant change is false.
I'm also not trying to pesuade anyone that what I say is the unmitigated truth either. I see replies to my post with calls for extremism as a bit to far. Not because I'm a coward, or a keyboard warrior, but because I see it as fuel for the argument that us, and people like us, are dangerous and should be dealt with accordingly. All the more reason to disregard what we have to say.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Yeah ok I'm sure if were to find yourself confronted with serial killer in the process of trying to kill you you'd tell them to sit down for a spot of tea to discuss their view points.
Glass Shark
Banned
"I don't agree with JonTron, but actually I agree with JonTron."
OriginalJonty
Member
Let's Talk About The Normalisation Of Racism In The Gaming Community - TheSixthAxis
A response to recent events.
A response to recent events.
They're hard to penetrate because the language is so foreign to begin.
Ask someone from Japan to try to penetrate the Spanish culture without a understanding a word of the language to begin with.
And Japan is spreading its culture pretty fine as well, we're not in 1920 anymore we do know a lot more about current Japanese culture than our forefathers.
And the part we don't is rather similar to how people in the US don't know about Danish culture really.
US culture is imperialist and it's doing a fine job "invading" most other cultures.
Heck in the middle east, radical religious movements are in part a response to US cultural norm invading what they see as their space.
And if we're talking about Europe, I can tell you the USA is currently the biggest most formidable threat to French culture at the moment.
cryptosporidium
Member
Theres nothing wrong with banning illiberal groups of people from immigrating to your country, in fact (though he muddies his own argument) the most dominant thinker on multiculturalism, Kymlicka, makes the case against allowing illiberal groups to immigrate (multicultural citizenship). Theres also a piece I cant remember by who called "is multiculturalism bad for women" which takes a liberal feminist perspective and looks at the private sphere of illiberal groups (in this case was about polygamous muslims) and how women are treated. NEITHER of these bring race into it as the colour of the skin has nothing to do with what ideology or religious sect someone is a part of.
Its a case by case basis onto whether you find the immigration of a particular group useful to your state. Canada accepts people from all around the world, but we also have extremely tough immigration policies. We take in those who benefit our nation, and those people come from all over. Nations and national minorities and ethnicities are not monoliths.
EmmaWatsonButt
Member
Dude lives in his own bubble, most of these Youtube/Twitter political commentators are incredibly naive and out of their depth when exploring complex racial, economic, political issues. You get people living in their own echo chambers - their own bubbles - amongst the bigger of these social media accounts, and the results are thousands of misguided people like JonTron who otherwise weren't involved in politics even a year or two ago.
He needs sit down and read well-referenced academics books on these subjects, instead of digesting Breitbart crap.
He needs sit down and read well-referenced academics books on these subjects, instead of digesting Breitbart crap.
ScientificPizza
Banned
That really doesn't answer why the line of thinking we're criticizing is wrong though? That only shows there's precedent for what Jontron and his ilk fear?
Just to reiterate, I'm not agreeing or trying to play devil's advocate. I'm just kinda confused.
Please don't mistake my questions for agreeing with him. I really am just trying to understand why this is wrong.
You're basically saying, nuance is important. Which I tend to agree on with anything relating to all peoples. So essentially, as an answer: "This line of thinking is wrong because we risk falling into the trap of believing some people are inherently better than others. It doesn't matter where they're from so long as they espouse shared inclusive values and want a reduction of suffering in all peoples".
Which when I type it out seems like an obvious answer, I just needed a nudge to figure it out. Thanks guys.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
What the fuck? Absolutely not, my rights let alone my life aren't up for debate. Fucking hell, this isn't like a video game where a plus +5 charisma stat will suddenly convince the dude who wants me euthanized will magically change his mind. The onus isn't on the oppressed to eucate the oppressors.
HazySaiyan
Banned
Quick question: if it turned out JonTron was a child molester would you continue to watch his videos? Would you feel comfortable whilst you did? I mean it shouldn't be an issue, right? It's important to 'separate the art from the artist' after all...
Good one!
"You should try and have a rational debate with someone who literally wants you dead just for existing"
Good one!
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
The indigent population of the Americas was literally polluted by killer germs leaping off of immigrating explorers that wiped out like 95% of their civilization while the remaining few were then either slaughtered, assimilated, or herded onto smaller and smaller "sovereign" tracts of land as an amalgamation of European immigrants built an empire on the backs of African slaves and expanded their "destiny" from coast to coast for more than a century. Then another wave of immigrants from other parts of Europe "polluted" the country for another 150 years.
The idea that there is any kind of purebred "founding stock" in the United States today or ever is laughable.
EatinOlives
Member
It's not "precedent", it's logically inconsistent. Their argument is broken on a fundamental level since the true founders of the country were the native Americans, not the European invaders.
To answer that notion directly, the US is specifically positioned as a nation of immigrants, its identity one of a melting pot of various languages, origins, religions, and backgrounds. The US has no "default" culture, one can't "dilute it" by adding to that diversity.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
wait jontron is now being a racist because hes stubborn? if only the message was offered in a way he could understand, pipi the cock frog memeing about fact that not all mexicans are criminals, he would be more willing to accept hes wrong.
god help us.
god help us.
Complicated
Banned
Wow. Just ended up watching that whole discussion on Destiny's channel. It's so crazy to see people out themselves in this way. I take comfort in the fact that I was already avoiding all these youtubers because they seemed awful prior to revealing their disgusting views. Hard not to feel discourage by such hatred coming out into the open though. Got a long road ahead of us. Doesn't seem like they'll recede back into the shadows without putting up a fight and kicking and screaming the whole way.
Also, never really heard of Destiny. Dude seems extremely smart and well-spoken. Made a fan out of me.
Also, never really heard of Destiny. Dude seems extremely smart and well-spoken. Made a fan out of me.
Did you read both articles and actually reflect on the subject matter? Or is this another case of forming an opinion on a rudamentry knowledge. The point is that Japan can not be used as a standard for other countries to strive for when, through racism and a distrust of immigrants, they are losing more people than they are gaining every year.
Gotdatmoney
Member
The construct of America was destroy the current culture (aka the Native Americans), bring in immigrants from all over the planet and use black people as slaves to build up large wealth. What part of that history suggests that whiteness is America?
How is the basis of the formation of America based in founding fathers. It's none sense. You can't preserve whiteness on the basis of white people conquered when they also then flooded the land with more immigration and slavery of other peoples.
and that guy gets worse. WTF. the hell is wrong with people. Stop trying to normalize racism, stop trying to coddle racists or say "they didnt articulate what they wanted to say right", it's still racism no matter how people want to cut it.
Yo this level of getting angry at apologists can't possibly be good for my health
Edit: look at these morons that reply to Jim,
Silver Arrows
Banned
ffs
Great to see media sites speaking up. It would be amazing to see more and more sites to speak up.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Have you ever been confronted by someone, who hates you for the very fact you exist?
How did you respond?
Ok? I'm not talking about Japan spreading their culture, I'm saying that other cultures haven't penetrated japan that much, and people from other cultures definitely haven't
What are you trying to say? In the end if you walk around japan you'll have to look really hard to find something that isn't uniquely "Japanese", even if it's something american created, its usually something the japanese have taken and put their own twist on. America is the most inviting and complacent country in the world (I mean... that might change now that Trump is around D : ), and to a degree I do respect that. Could do with a bit of a better vetting process when it comes to allowing certain individuals in, but cutting out entire cultures is ridiculous.
Btw in the middle east I wouldn't call US soldiers setting foot on foreign land a "cultural norm invading".
SerTapTap
Member
I sent Jim some thanks for not defending Jon, I think he (and anyone else standing against it in any way) could use it so they see the morons going "OPINIONS!!!!" aren't the only people out there.
How are people not getting how creepy "founding stock" is to begin with? They're not fucking racehorse breeding stock. And even if they were, 'well bred' animals always have all sorts of health problems due to the inbreeding and selective pressure focused all on something humans find amusing instead of...living.
And what's with this "contempt" shit? They can't hate America that fuckin' much if they're moving here. They don't just have a Scary Brown People Service where they give free plane tickets, jobs and housing to Scary Brown People because 'well fuck america, right'? This is a huge, life-changing process that is neither easy, free, nor quick.
I mean, why? They aren't. They're also, you know, basically the closest thing to real evil in the world, depending on exactly how racist they are. These are people who think another person's life is an active mistake because of their skin color, country of origin or genetic makeup. That's a few steps beyond "bad opinion"
How are people not getting how creepy "founding stock" is to begin with? They're not fucking racehorse breeding stock. And even if they were, 'well bred' animals always have all sorts of health problems due to the inbreeding and selective pressure focused all on something humans find amusing instead of...living.
And what's with this "contempt" shit? They can't hate America that fuckin' much if they're moving here. They don't just have a Scary Brown People Service where they give free plane tickets, jobs and housing to Scary Brown People because 'well fuck america, right'? This is a huge, life-changing process that is neither easy, free, nor quick.
I mean, why? They aren't. They're also, you know, basically the closest thing to real evil in the world, depending on exactly how racist they are. These are people who think another person's life is an active mistake because of their skin color, country of origin or genetic makeup. That's a few steps beyond "bad opinion"
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I doubt you've ever had anyone threaten your life in a real manner before. I've had a gun pulled to my head in real life, and trust me, the last thing going through your head is how you can have a calm reasonable debate with the person threatening to kill you.
In real life?
If it's someone I need to get along with I'll try and be the first to talk, just to get the hassle out of the way. If it's someone I don't care about and don't need to be around I'll just ignore them, I don't need their appreciation anyway.
To the people spouting hyperbolic statements like "WHAT IF THEY CAME IN TO YOUR HOUSE WITH A KNIFE AND TRIED TO STAB YOU".
That's not the same thing and you know it. I'm talking about words, John said some dumb things, he didn't actually stab or hit someone. He's not in your house, you can easily close the browser window.
Yeah. Maybe next time use a blunt weapon. And while you're at it, print 'Moral highground' on it. I am sure racism will vanish in moments.
/s
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're not wrong.
guybrushfreeman
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think you really understand the things he is saying. You might want to really take a good look at his statements because I'm not sure you really understand what it is he's saying about other human beings and their rights
and that guy gets worse. WTF. the hell is wrong with people. Stop trying to normalize racism, stop trying to coddle racists or say "they didnt articulate what they wanted to say right", it's still racism no matter how people want to cut it.
Yo this level of getting angry at apologists can't possibly be good for my health
Edit: look at these morons that reply to Jim,
if 2 hours of nonsensical and incoherent racist rambling is just a fraction of who he really is i don't think the remaining part is going to look all that pretty
Silver Arrows
Banned
Jontron said incredibly racist, ignorant shit. And to most everyone else in the world, that is just as bad, if not worse, then stabbing or hitting someone.
Stop with this horseshit analogy game.
Thank you for the answers. You cleared up my confusion quickly. It points out even further how odd (read: stupid) this kind of language is coming from a man with heritage like Jon.
Thanks for that. I never claimed to be a smart person. I already knew the premise of what these people was saying was wrong, I just needed clarifying as to why it was wrong as I don't feel right holding a stance on something without understanding -why- I hold that stance. But it's fine, I got the answers I needed.
Also, not an alt account. I legit just don't post unless I feel I have something to contribute.. which clearly isn't very often.
Jirard (one of Jon's more longstanding former friends and another NormalBoots member) posted this just now. He doesn't reference this incident directly and it's somewhat non-committal/clear he doesn't boil this issue up but he seems to make it clear he definitely has a much different worldview than Jon does.
Shift Breaker
Member
It's always sad to discover that the people behind things you like turn out to be total pieces of shit.
Conscious ignorance is still conscious. Acting as if people are just genuinely mistaken and simply need a helping hand to guide them into enlightenment is wishful thinking, because we've been doing that for well over 400 years and here we are discussing a very specific shitheel who believes in many of those same things all those centuries ago. Progress has been made, but it's been made primarily through bloodshed, social and economic ostracization, emotional appeals, and ramming legislation through even when the majority of the country was against it or apathetic to it, not with steadied arguments between logical individuals. Societies are reactive and thus more or less have to be dragged into the future kicking and screaming.
You need to calm down.
I'm not the one using analogies, they are.
If someone says something hateful, there's nothing wrong with trying to start a discourse and trying to educate them, or at least to try first. That's completely different from someone actively trying to kill you like some people are saying.
Am I missing something? Do you guys seriously think he's going to kill someone?
Ghandi must be rolling in his grave.
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