Ok, sorry for taking so long to get back but I'll help give you the data because you are wholly misusing what IQ data actually means and don't know what you are talking about.
1) IQ: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_quotient
An intelligence quotient (IQ) is a total score derived from several standardized tests designed to assess human intelligence. The abbreviation "IQ" was coined by the psychologist William Stern for the German term Intelligenzquotient, his term for a scoring method for intelligence tests at University of Breslau he advocated in a 1912 book.[1] Historically, IQ is a score obtained by dividing a person's mental age score, obtained by administering an intelligence test, by the person's chronological age, both expressed in terms of years and months. The resulting fraction is multiplied by 100 to obtain the IQ score.[2] When current IQ tests were developed, the median raw score of the norming sample is defined as IQ 100 and scores each standard deviation (SD) up or down are defined as 15 IQ points greater or less,[3] although this was not always so historically. By this definition, approximately two-thirds of the population scores are between IQ 85 and IQ 115. About 2.5 percent of the population scores above 130, and 2.5 percent below 70.[4][5]
So what this in effect means is that every few years IQ is renormalized, otherwise the current average IQ of Americans would be 130...
2)IQ Black and White gap:
Knowing that IQ is an average means we can rate and understand what this means.
Because IQ is an average adjusted to 100, that means that the average white person pre-1950s would have had an average of a 70 IQ compared to todays black IQ of 85. Meaning White Americans pre-1950 would be considered MENTALLY RETARDED when compared to today's black Americans...
Further the gap is shrinking, meaning Black IQ rates are INCREASING AT A RATE FASTER THAN WHITE AMERICANS.
This means, if we want to continue with your incorrect interpretation of it being "genetic" rather than environmental, then Black IQs rise at rates FASTER than White Americans and will eventually OVERTAKE WHITE IQs to make WHITE IQs INFERIOR TO BLACK IQS. Again only if your incorrect interpretation persists.
3) IQs rise VERY VERY fast based on environmental factors.
Again, we see where the average IQ has rised almost 30 points in the US since pre-1950s.
Black individuals keeping pace and closing the gap indicates that
1) This is no Average IQ cap.
2) The rate of IQ increase is at least comparable if not faster for black IQs.
Now what all this tells us is that ultimately there is a gap in the environmental variables between black and white.
We see that global variables which would effect both populations such as national education and medicine so that the gap remains constant. Thus your understanding of this concept of IQ is just severely uneducated.
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Jordan Peterson tries to debunk "white privilege"
- Thread starter Alfadawg
- Start date
I_D
Member
Not by everybody, just him and those like him.
At this point, I'm convinced he would claim that grass is neon-purple, then argue against it when people provided proof that he's wrong.
Saying race doesn't exist and that society ( the collective group of peoples values and views ) is racist isn't even remotely mutually exclusive.
Especially when the people who say race doesn't exist explain and write about race being a social construct
JordanN
Banned
Then where did race come from? If everyone can start identifying as white (because there are no biological boundaries) then what's the point in bringing up privilege?
If Kanye West says he's White tomorrow, does he now have white privilege? What if Trump says he black, does that make him a minority?
It’s not that race doesn’t exist, but again the discussion of what it is needs to happen because as I’ve shown in this thread. The understanding of basis concepts like what IQ and Race are so misunderstood and misused that it’s impossible to have a real discussion on either because people don’t even understand the basic of what they are discussing to even begin to quantify or define it in the first place.
No, because people see him as a black dude and judge him based on his skin.
I know you love dragging out the skulls like Monsieur Candie from Django, but a again, a little thought goes a long way.
White privilege is two main things.
1) The physical and tangible privilege of ones ancestors using slavery and robbing entire generations of PoC of their work/land/money to gain wealth which has been passed down for generations.
2) Contemporary societies judgement and prejudices based on ones skin color which can manifest itself in social issues like racist policing and racist economic policy.
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Good old JordanN..., ignoring the shit out of anyone who counters his propaganda with actual facts... smh. As I keep saying JordanN doesn’t want to have open discussion, he wants a platform to spread his propaganda and using Neogaf and the medium.
Shame on the us for enabling propaganda mouth pieces who aren’t actually seeking real discussion.
Shame on the us for enabling propaganda mouth pieces who aren’t actually seeking real discussion.
JordanN
Banned
What people? Kanye comes out as White and Trump identifies as black, they both flip races. Since it's all a construct (no biology is used to group people), society would have to recognize them would they not?
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Sakura Doritos
Member
Race does exist. Society is Racist. Some of it is bad, some of it is good. Telling someone they cannot have a job because they are race X is bad. Someone who finds race X sexually attractive more than race Y is not bad. That is preference. Now, if you find a person who meets all the qualifications of sexual or romantic standards but they are not race X and you won't let them past the firewall of your preference... then we may have need of a more nuanced conversation.
The worlds is nuanced. That makes us want to talk to each other and hash out our beliefs and personalities. The more the merrier.
Post modernists want to deconstruct society and what they are to me are the same ilk that makes those fancy New York chef's who deconstruct a meal, say a Shepards Pie, as a survey of Shepards Pie which in turn is a plate with each piece cooked and arranged individually with different technique to demonstrate the skill of the chef and how far those techniques have come from using fire, lard and a single cooking vessel. It is nice they can do that... But it is not going to fill my fucking belly when I wanted a Shepards fucking Pie for a reasonable price, not 145 dollars + Wine and 40% tip. That is what post modernists are to me. People who want to take it beyond the one place it is useful, in a university as just one thought process among many, and claim that this is right-think and then let it creep into what questions the hard sciences ask and into our politics.
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JordanN
Banned
Why are people seeing Kanye as black if it wasn't because his biological race is black? What do you think creates skin color? Pigments. Where do pigments come from?
But if you say there is no race you can't source skin color anymore to judge people because that's a biological reality. Kanye can't change his skin color, because his genetics gave him that melanin.
This is why saying "there is no race but people are racist" is contradictory. You understand skin color is real but don't tie it to race because....? Yeah.
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Sakura Doritos
Member
There is an ignore feature and it works well!
I think JordanN uses that on those who disprove his propaganda. This is why it’s propaganda because it’s a one way communication and not an open dialogue. Like true propaganda, the conversation ends oncethe counterpoints begin and the proproganda is disproven.
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JordanN
Banned
There's nothing to ignore. Your data simply doesn't follow reality.
Again, they've tested for over a 100 years, black IQ has only gone up 2 points. From 83 (World War 1 army testing) to 85 (1979 court ruling). Saying they're going to overtake whites in a matter of days when they're 1 standard deviation behind is nonsense.
That's the genetic difference.
And to not stop there, if black IQ really was rising and overtaking whites, that wouldn't explain why we still see big differences in SAT scores. They would have to be over-represented or be at the top, instead of averaging lower scores than both whites and Asians.
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Sakura Doritos
Member
Well I appreciate that post you did above. I had an issue with him and IQ of Nigerians a few weeks back and I just didn't have the time or patience to argue him so Ignoring him was the best option.
There's nothing to ignore. Your data simply doesn't follow reality.
Again, they've tested for over a 100 years, black IQ has only gone up 2 points. From 83 (World War 1 army testing) to 85 (1979 court ruling). Saying they're going to overtake whites in a matter of days when they're 1 standard deviation behind is nonsense.
That's the genetic difference.
And to not stop there, if black IQ really was rising and overtaking whites, that wouldn't explain why we still see big differences in SAT scores. They would have to be overepresented or be at the top, instead of averaging lower scores than both whites and Asians.
No, you literally DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT IQ IS, MEANS, OR MEASURES!!!!
The irony that you do not understand what IQ is, the very thing you are talking about, which makes individuals think you may not have the IQ high enough to comprehend what it actually is.
IQ is a MEAN. THIS MEANS BLACK IQ HAS RISEN 30 POINTS!!!!! In the last 50 years alone.
YOU, YOU, YOU, YOU fail to understand which again I can only assume you do not have the IQ necessary to understand what IQ measures.
Let me put it to you easily.
The average Black IQ (RAW SCORE) is HIGHER than whites since the 70-80s.
THIS MEANs MANY OF THE WHITE PEOPLE on this forum have PARENTS, GRANDPARENTS, and GREAT GRANDPARENTS who's average IQ would be lower than that of the AVERAGE black people born in the past 20 years. That's literally HOW THIS WORKS.
It's almost as if you have neither the mental capacity, nor IQ to understand this.
Its been repeated to you multiple time.
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ilfait
Member
To answer your question about why people are ignoring your post debunking JordanN's claims, though I can only answer for myself this may apply to others as well, IQ isn't a subject that interests me much, and when he's involved in a conversation his posts and the posts replying to him are often long and technical.
Because I haven't read many of his posts or their replies I can't say this definitively, but it at least seems to me that he usually responds with care and in detail to people who respond to him. If he were only using the forum like a blog and never engaging in discussion, or if he were with one-word answers and pure snark dismissing replies to his posts, or if he were suggesting that people who disagree with him should be removed, then maybe I could support your "Shame on the us for enabling propaganda mouth pieces who aren’t actually seeking real discussion." sentiment, but because I haven't seen evidence for that, I don't feel any shame for posting in a forum that allows free-thinking adults to discuss their opinions with other free-thinking adults.
JordanN
Banned
So do black people have white privilege because they practiced slavery in Africa? You know they fought against the British who wanted to end slavery?
He's been told multiple times what IQ is and how it works and measures.
He is deliberately preying on people only posting reactions to make it appear like a dialogue.
He then ignores the corrected information about how IQ actually works and continues to act as if he was never informed about it.
He's done this in multiple threads and we have to continually go back over the same thing with him, but the objective isn't to learn, its to promote so he disappears for while and then repeats the same stuff he was debunked on the previous week to an unknowing crowd. That's why its propaganda. He's been informed but not learning or acknowledging and continuing to post misinformation even after corrected because the point was never dialogue to begin with.
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Sakura Doritos
Member
Who said anything about silencing him? I'm simply summarizing his posts for ease of consumption.
This is nuNeoGAF, you can say anything you want these days after all
If you think I'm actually gonna waste my time arguing with someone who is advocating that intelligence differs based on race you're barking up the wrong tree.
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JordanN
Banned
What did it rise from? Where was white IQ at the same time they tested black IQ?
I have no idea where you're getting this crazy figure that that it rose by 30 points.
How much did white people IQ rise by? Show me what both scores looked like at the same time.
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Sakura Doritos
Member
I ignored him for the very same reason. I wasn't trying to imply you were trying to silence him, sorry if that is how it came over.
ilfait
Member
I can't agree or disagree with you that it applies to him in particular without seeing it for myself, but I concede your point in general.
JordanN
Banned
How do you know this? Again, show me what both test scores looked like at the same time.
And I also want you to answer if black iq is higher/surpassing whites, than why are there still huge differences in SAT score? Why isn't Black scores over represented if it's going to take over?
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Because the gap is the same over the past 100 years remember????? You’re the one who said that!!! And the gap has closed a bit which mathematically which means the mean (average) of black IQs is rising at a rate faster than white IQs. It’s all the information YOU presented, the problem is you didn’t even understand the information YOU were posting lol
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Source for that graph?30 Points, they rose at the same rate with white iq rising actually a tad slower.
I do know that IQ has risen over time the so called Flynn Effect. That today a person with an IQ of 100, has greater intelligence than a person decades ago with an IQ of 100.
Though the Flynn effect has petered and IQs are said to be falling nowadays?
The existence of the Flynn effect, does not mean that there was or wasn't a gap in the distant past. That would require other evidence. That said the cause of the Flynn effect I think it is still speculated.
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JordanN
Banned
How can the gap be the same and the IQ scores are the same? Where did the black scores rise from if it didn't change? That's why I'm asking to see the scores of both black and whites.
What do you think happens if you get a sample of 50 black and 50 white people with identical educational backgrounds and upbringings, do you think there will be a clear distinction in intelligence?
Umm.... but it has.....
The SAT score gap has dropped very quickly in a very short time period.....
Do you even do research at all???
How many times and ways can I explain the same thing you???
You need to have and understanding of WHAT and HOW IQ is measured over time before I can even answer that for you. Right now you don't even have the fundamental base understanding of WHAT IQ TESTS ARE!!!!
Umm.... but it has.....
The SAT score gap has dropped very quickly in a very short time period.....
Do you even do research at all???[/Q
You think he actually did time and effort to research this stuff?
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JordanN
Banned
What am I even looking at? The graph doesn't label who is who.Umm.... but it has.....
The SAT score gap has dropped very quickly in a very short time period.....
Do you even do research at all???
You keep saying it's rising. Rising from what? What were the scores of blacks and whites taken at the same time?
JordanN
Banned
What do you mean rising from what? The raw scores rose!! Again simple question do you even understand how IQ works and measured. If not then you won’t understand anything I’m telling you ignoring the fact that I’ve explained it to you multiple times already.
Sorry wrong chart, that was a different study, my bad.
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No, that's deflecting the very easy to read question I asked about your posts.
It would be really easy for you to simply answer the simple question instead of talking around it. I'm asking you the question.
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I_D
Member
Quoted for relevance.
JordanN
Banned
Yes it does....
It says right there "the black-white difference does not shrink".
What am I suppose to say? You asked what would happen if you you put identical backgrounds in the same test. There's still a gap and post 515 explains it to you.
Stop asking him this question, the question doesn't matter because he can think whatever he wants. The most important thing isnt whether he thinks that, but that he is factually wrong.
It's simple, do you think the white race defined how you believe it to be defined is capable of being more intellectual than other races, specifically black races?
Again, I'm writing very clearly so there is no misunderstandings.
Omega Supreme Holopsicon
Member
Umm.... but it has.....
The SAT score gap has dropped very quickly in a very short time period.....
Do you even do research at all???
Seems so, but it seems like it also depends on what exactly does the dotted portion means. Is it inferred? Is it based on some data? why is it dotted?
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That's the wrong chart, and it was found to not be methodologically consistent. I'm going to post the right, but it does shrink as economic status increases.
I never said he doesn't, I just want to know what he thinks based on all his amazing research
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