Support NeoGAF

[Atheerios]

Gamefreak said they don't want to expand the team much beyond the 120 devs who worked on Sun/Moon. That plus other stuff from Game Informer's coverage suggests their Switch game is gonna be more like the Pokemon we already know than the big console Pokemon game we imagine.

That's pretty obvious though.

Nobody should expect a immense change just because it's gonna be playable on the TV. It's going to be the same Pokemon we all like in HD.

Edit: oh wow, listening to the Gameinformer podcast, Masuda said they don't think Pokemon would work as an open world game.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

God no, Ocarina of Time did a horrible job at giving any reason to explore given its spacious environments and lack of anything to do with them. And given that's it's 2017, I think it's a backwards example for Pokémon to look up to. That's why people bring up BotW, not because of the scope of it all (though it would be nice, it just means changing up everything from the way the game programs which gyms/trials you tackle first, to randomizing patterns with each town, etc. And how much GF is willing to do that is not very debatable given their development philosophy), but because there's a motivation and a reason to explore that wasn't in Ocarina of TIme.

Well it's an N64 title so let's please keep technical restrictions in mind. A Pokemon overworld with the scope and design of OoT's overworld would be massive. Pokemon has never been about deep exploration so I'm not sure what you're going on about. However, my point was using the scope and the linear structure of OoT as an example for what a lot of people are hoping for Pokemon since it hasn't come close to touching it imo. I wasn't expecting people to be obtuse and point out technical limitations of a game that released almost 20 years ago.

 

[Omnii-chan]

"Of course, it is very difficult to make the game, so I hope people don’t get their expectations up too high,” Masuda admitted. “We’ll do our best.”

I think people just expect a prettier looking (because of the extra power over 3DS) traditional Pokemon RPG.

I'll play it in portable mode around the house.

 

[xochipiltontli]

I think it's pretty sad that given how well the titles sell, we'll probably never see a particularly ambitious Pokemon game. At this point they seem to content with adding in an underdeveloped gimmick for each title at the expense of removing features from previous games while putting in minimal effort in actually pushing the hardware. I fully expect to see Pokemon Switch to be only on par with a Vita game graphically while pretending that Z-Moves and regional variants never existed.

I can only hope that they manage to at least change the pacing of the games at least, Sun/Moon were ridiculously linear and handholdy, and the delivery of its (trash) story was obnoxious. There's really nothing to explore outside of the checkpoints and nothing to do after you finish the game. If the next set of games are anything like that, I'm out.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Well it's an N64 title so let's please keep technical restrictions in mind. A Pokemon overworld with the scope and design of OoT's overworld would be massive. Pokemon has never been about deep exploration so I'm not sure what you're going on about. However, my point was using the scope and the linear structure of OoT as an example for what a lot of people are hoping for Pokemon since it hasn't come close to touching it imo. I wasn't expecting people to be obtuse and point out technical limitations of a game that released almost 20 years ago.

Being an N64 title with technical limitations isn't relevant considering the access to technology we have now compared to late 90s, not to mention the standards that have been pushed farther and farther thanks to games from late 90s onwards. So it has nothing to do with being obtuse, and everything to do with it being an outdated example for a game series to look up to. Also Pokemon hasn't been about deep exploration? Exploration may not be deep, but exploration in those games (especially prior to Gen V) was more stimulating than exploring vast lands with nothing in between in OOT given the potential to find more Pokemon, more ways to branch out to different areas, and finding more items and trainers to battle.

 

[Sorbete]

I dont really expect or want massive changes, I mean if Nintendo were to released a open world Pokemon I'll probably spend 5 months on it like in BOTW, making my backlog ever worse.

I want to be able to play as an adult trainer and being able to choose from which city, then I can pick were to go, not really and open world game though, same structure, random battles and stronger wild pokemon and trainers as you progress.

 

[Hydrus]

Gamefreak said they don't want to expand the team much beyond the 120 devs who worked on Sun/Moon. That plus other stuff from Game Informer's coverage suggests their Switch game is gonna be more like the Pokemon we already know than the big console Pokemon game we imagine.

This has to be BS. No way in hell it took 120 people to make freaking sun and moon on 3ds. If that's true then GF is even worse then I thought.

 

[whyamihere]

I don't know if I neeed a completely open world Pokémon, but I would like some of the series conventions broken more. I'd like larger, more complex routes that are opened up a bit, for one.

 

[Yellowflashdude]

I hope they make the character models more within realistic proportions. Atleast similar to the anime.

 

[Nanashrew]

This has to be BS. No way in hell it took 120 people to make freaking sun and moon on 3ds. If that's true then GF is even worse then I thought.

I believe in 2015 they only had around 80 employees. They've slowly grown, but they choose to remain a small independent company.

 

[JohnTinker]

So what's Masuda's gaf account?

blame space

 

[AmayaPapaya]

That's pretty obvious though.

Nobody should expect a immense change just because it's gonna be playable on the TV. It's going to be the same Pokemon we all like in HD.

Edit: oh wow, listening to the Gameinformer podcast, Masuda said they don't think Pokemon would work as an open world game.

...the games are already open world, though? Just with some screen transitions. Make the same games without them and you have a legitimate open world game.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

This has to be BS. No way in hell it took 120 people to make freaking sun and moon on 3ds. If that's true then GF is even worse then I thought.

I could be wrong but if there are 120 developers working at Game Freak, they are likely split between two teams. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember two different teams with two different directors that allowed them to release a new Pokemon game nearly every year. So it wouldn't be 120 people solely on S/M.

 

[Hydrus]

I could be wrong but if there are 120 developers working at Game Freak, they are likely split between two teams. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I seem to remember two different teams with two different directors that allowed them to release a new Pokemon game nearly every year. So it wouldn't be 120 people solely on S/M.

Well, we didn't get a game in 2015 and I highly doubt a separate team was working on USUM. The only thing that would make sense was a 2nd version to XY (Z) was in development and got canned and SM was supposed to come out this year.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Well, we didn't get a game in 2015 and I highly doubt a separate team was working on USUM. The only thing that would make sense was a 2nd version to XY (Z) was in development and got canned and SM was supposed to come out this year.

You're more than likely correct. I suspect they decided to can Z after OR AS released, in favor of concentrating on getting another generation of Pokemon out for 3DS before it's successor released. Although I think it's likely that USUM started development before SM finished development. They likely saw that NX was targeting a 2016 release and wanted to hurry up and get another generation of Pokemon in for the 3DS like Gen 5.

 

[JoeM86]

Yeah, it's in the game's files. That's why I find it so surprising nothing has been done so far

Considering Niantic can't even get GO working right, I'm not surprised at all

Edit: oh wow, listening to the Gameinformer podcast, Masuda said they don't think Pokemon would work as an open world game.

He's right

 

[notaskwid]

I wish the quoted me when I said pokemon games suck outside of the metagame and I can get that for free on Pokemon Showdown.

 

[LotusHD]

Edit: oh wow, listening to the Gameinformer podcast, Masuda said they don't think Pokemon would work as an open world game.

Well, I certainly don't need it to be one tbh

 

[Merchandise]

Well, I certainly don't need it to be one tbh

What I missing re: Pokemon games aren't already open world? Is it because going into buildings has a load screen or something?


???

 

[KZXcellent]

I just want to play a normal Pokemon game on my TV at a stable framerate. I don't think any major shakeups, new features or graphical overhaul. Basically a sharper looking Sun/Moon is perfectly fine with me.

Being able to battle friends on the TV and not have the game almost explode during double battles and Z-Moves will be awesome.

 

[Pokemaniac]

What I missing re: Pokemon games aren't already open world? Is it because going into buildings has a load screen or something?


???

When it comes down to it, Pokémon games are actually very linear. It'd probably break the difficulty curve a bit if they tried to open it up too much.

 

[JoeM86]

What I missing re: Pokemon games aren't already open world? Is it because going into buildings has a load screen or something?


???

People are wanting it to be like Breath of the Wild now

 

[LotusHD]

What I missing re: Pokemon games aren't already open world? Is it because going into buildings has a load screen or something?


???

I mean...no? I never considered them as much. Like I don't wanna argue semantics about what open world is, but basically a series that is known for gating you through HMs, NPCs, etc. isn't what I'd describe as being open world.

And of course it's nowhere near BoTW's openness, where I guess the equivalent for Pokemon would be doing the gym/trials in any order or whatever.

Like once you get all the HMs and have traveled everywhere due to progressing the story, you can backtrack and go wherever I guess, but that doesn't count either.

 

[theclaw135]

When it comes down to it, Pokémon games are actually very linear. It'd probably break the difficulty curve a bit if they tried to open it up too much.

If the stripped GSC Kanto is any indicator of experimenting again opening up Pokemon, I'll pass.

 

[xochipiltontli]

He's right

You're telling me a game with the basic premise of traveling around a country and finding and capturing creatures is inherently incompatible with a more open design structure? Does every trainer in the Pokemon world start in Pallet, Littleroot, Vaniville, and Iki and make their way around the region in the same linear fashion? It doesn't need to be Breath of the Wild, but seeing as one of the franchise's biggest products (Pokemon Go) focuses on going outside and traveling around wherever you want to catch Pokemon and visit landmarks, I don't understand why the main series has to be limited to corridors and limited freedom. I don't expect to ever see it only because Game Freak doesn't really need to do so in order to keep selling as many copies as they've been doing for years now, but I wouldn't say that Pokemon wouldn't work as an open world game. They simply don't care and aren't willing to put in the effort to make it a reality.

 

[Tagg9]

You can tell from the interview that they are only begrudgingly making a console Pokemon game. Fucking Game Freak. I should thank Nintendo for essentially forcing them to do so.

 

[watershed]

What I missing re: Pokemon games aren't already open world? Is it because going into buildings has a load screen or something?


???

Pokemon games follow a pretty traditional jrpg sense of progression. You go from point A to point B in a pretty linear fashion gradually opening up more of the world region by region in a predetermined fashion. They are pretty much simple jrpgs and don't have the open structure or open world rpg systems or progression structure of open world games.

An open world pokemon game would be pretty different and I don't expect that to happen.

 

[Cartho]

He's right

I disagree. Of course it COULD work. It would require a team / creative director with the drive and ambition to make it happen. There is no real convincing reason why it couldn't possibly work. GF are just a hugely conservative company - I don't think they have that kind of risk taking in them. Sun and Moon represented a pretty big departure from the norm for Pokemon games - no gyms, loss of HMs etc, however a fully open BOTW style experience would be a totally different ball game.

It's not that it couldn't work, it's that GF don't even want to try.

To simply suggest that the entire concept of a fully open world Pokemon game "wouldn't work" is, in my view, ridiculous.

 

[TDLink]

If the stripped GSC Kanto is any indicator of experimenting again opening up Pokemon, I'll pass.

It was half-assed when they tried it nearly two decades ago, better never attempt it again!

You're telling me a game with the basic premise of traveling around a country and finding and capturing creatures is inherently incompatible with a more open design structure? Does every trainer in the Pokemon world start in Pallet, Littleroot, Vaniville, and Iki and make their way around the region in the same linear fashion? It doesn't need to be Breath of the Wild, but seeing as one of the franchise's biggest products (Pokemon Go) focuses on going outside and traveling around wherever you want to catch Pokemon and visit landmarks, I don't understand why the main series has to be limited to corridors and limited freedom. I don't expect to ever see it only because Game Freak doesn't really need to do so in order to keep selling as many copies as they've been doing for years now, but I wouldn't say that Pokemon wouldn't work as an open world game. They simply don't care and aren't willing to put in the effort to make it a reality.

This 100%. Most of the people here who are saying "Pokemon Breath of the Wild" are putting words in our mouths. It doesn't have to go that far at all. People just want -an- open world, not a limitless open world.

 

[Nanashrew]

How does the scaling work in an open world Pokemon game? Ya'll realize how highly level dependent Pokemon games are right? I'm not even sure how an open world Pokemon game would work to ensure that the game always remained fair to the player. Being a turn-based game where the game naturally scales as you progress, going open world sounds like a mess of problems.

I know people have given Gold, Silver and Crystal some crap for its scaling issue when getting to Kanto. I could only imagine how wild it would become with an open world Pokemon just trying to progress at all.

You're telling me a game with the basic premise of traveling around a country and finding and capturing creatures is inherently incompatible with a more open design structure? Does every trainer in the Pokemon world start in Pallet, Littleroot, Vaniville, and Iki and make their way around the region in the same linear fashion? It doesn't need to be Breath of the Wild, but seeing as one of the franchise's biggest products (Pokemon Go) focuses on going outside and traveling around wherever you want to catch Pokemon and visit landmarks, I don't understand why the main series has to be limited to corridors and limited freedom. I don't expect to ever see it only because Game Freak doesn't really need to do so in order to keep selling as many copies as they've been doing for years now, but I wouldn't say that Pokemon wouldn't work as an open world game. They simply don't care and aren't willing to put in the effort to make it a reality.

If anything it should begin opening up near the middle and end like most RPGs tend to do. Everyone in Red and Blue were weak and hung around similar levels until late game due to its open structure for example.

 

[MisterHero]

MisterHero please respond if you're okay


also, Masuda. if you're reading this: I REALLY want a console-scale Battle Frontier adventure. whatever that means. I expect my post to be quoted in the future!

*Dying*

Wow that's awesome. I couldn't respond as I heard about it while on my way to bed. That they actually spoke my username was incredible.

It was one of my more plain posts regarding a console-style Pokémon. I know that even making the handheld titles is a tremendous task. Designing a world and populating it with what is sure to be 1000 Pokémon is definitely hard but that's what makes the series so special.

My dream console Pokémon game would have an immens open world and feature real-time encounters where you observe Pokémon in their natural habitat. I know that's probably impossible for a mainline game but it is my dream. I only entertain the thought because both the anime and Pokémon Snap hinted to a much more interactive/immersive world than standard RPG numbers.

Unfortunately as time went on I became a more casual player. I just have less time these days. I haven't finished Moon, but now I'm inspired too. I was going to get a Switch when they became available, but now kinda hyped.

 

[Aleh]

I would only like a bigger, more explorable world with no loading screens, but only if it retained some linearity and normal progression. A completely open world where you choose where to go and which gym to challenge first would be pointless and detrimental to the story, which yes, I enjoy.
To be honest the eventual Diamond and Pearl remakes are bound to be just that, if not the first gen 8 games. They weren't too linear and I feel like the routes were very expansive on their own. They would translate perfectly in a 3D world with a controllable camera without the need to go open world.
I just don't think level scaling and stuff would work or even make sense for the series.

 

[Bobo Dakes]

I'm all for a series coming full circle, but 4th gen remakes are like watching someone eat their own tail.

 

[xochipiltontli]

How does the scaling work in an open world Pokemon game? Ya'll realize how highly level dependent Pokemon games are right? I'm not even sure how an open world Pokemon game would work to ensure that the game always remained fair to the player. Being a turn-based game where the game naturally scales as you progress, going open world sounds like a mess of problems.

I know people have given Gold, Silver and Crystal some crap for its scaling issue when getting to Kanto. I could only imagine how wild it would become with an open world Pokemon just trying to progress at all.

The level system in Pokemon lends pretty well to scaling, I'd say, in a way other games do not. The vast majority of trainer battles in the games are pretty much throwaways that you overpower based on team number, typing, item using, and grinding alone, with very little regard to strategy. All you really have to do is have trainers' teams scale to within 3-5 levels of your 6 strongest Pokemon's average level, with certain limits set depending on the number of badges you have. You don't have to reconstruct entire teams for this level increase (except for maybe certain trainers like Gym Leaders or special events) either, just makes sure the Pokemon evolve when they're supposed to and that they learn some new moves. The same can be done with wild Pokemon, with the encounter rate of higher level Pokemon increasing with the number of badges you obtain.

 

[Cartho]

How does the scaling work in an open world Pokemon game? Ya'll realize how highly level dependent Pokemon games are right? I'm not even sure how an open world Pokemon game would work to ensure that the game always remained fair to the player. Being a turn-based game where the game naturally scales as you progress, going open world sounds like a mess of problems.

DO it like many other RPGs - have level dependent areas. So areas near the beginning are lower level and other areas, which could still be blocked by various means if they wish to gate progress, are higher.

Anyone who hasn't might want to look at World of Warcraft's Pet Battle system. That has critters in the world, who's level depends on the zone they're in (higher level zones have higher level critters), and walking up to them and clicking triggers a turn based battle very similar to Pokemon. That's just a minigame in an MMO. There is absolutely no reason this couldn't work in a Pokemon RPG. It even has "trainers" who you can fight, who have their own teams, with typings and weaknesses which need to be prepared for. It allows you to catch and level creatures, battle NPCs and other players and you can even "trade" the pets by putting them in "cages" and swapping them with other players or selling them on the auction house. It has type based creatures and moves, status effects, and rare, named pets which are very hard to catch and have random spawn locations / times. All this is done by seamlessly swapping from a real time, 3D open world into a turn based battle and then popping you out in the same location at the end, with no loading screens.

Seriously, WoW's pet battles are like a pokemon game in their own right now. If Blizzard can do it in a simple minigame as part of a ~13 year old game then to suggest that "it couldn't work" if developed by the Game Freak, with all the finance they would have available to them, is totally laughable. People need to stop giving them excuses - they're insanely conservative and the games COULD be so much more IF THEY WANTED THEM TO BE. Saying that there's literally no way a Pokemon RPG could work in a 3D open world is utterly asinine because many of the core elements have already been done in fricking World of Warcraft.

 

[TDLink]

How does the scaling work in an open world Pokemon game? Ya'll realize how highly level dependent Pokemon games are right? I'm not even sure how an open world Pokemon game would work to ensure that the game always remained fair to the player. Being a turn-based game where the game naturally scales as you progress, going open world sounds like a mess of problems.

I know people have given Gold, Silver and Crystal some crap for its scaling issue when getting to Kanto. I could only imagine how wild it would become with an open world Pokemon just trying to progress at all.

This is something that has easily been solved in other games. The two posters above me have some good possible ideas.

You can also go the FF8 method where levels scale based on your highest leveled Pokemon's (though I like the "average" of your 6 highest which xochipiltontli suggested better).

I also think scaling can be done via gym badges. Every time you beat a gym, all trainer levels increase to some set value. If they -were- to go completely open and let you do gyms in any order, this kind of system would also be central to that. Ie, no matter which gym you attempt first they'll have a team of level ~13 Pokemon. But then the second gym will have ~19. Etc. Or something in that vein.

As it is the vast majority of battles outside of gyms/story battles are a complete joke anyways, this could actually increase their challenge.

 

[watershed]

Game Informer put up another interview segment, this time about player freedom and the themes of Pokemon games.

Sun/Moon did a great job of hitting the themes of friendship and travel. The islands felt fresh and lively compared to past games. The whole island culture vibe makes for a great setting.

But the rigidity of the structure of Pokemon games does not seem essential to the story at all. The theme of building a bond with your Pokemon could be even stronger with a more open world progression structure where the player can advance multiple, separate goals at their own pace. I want to create my own memorable adventure with my Pokemon.

 

[Atheerios]

https://youtu.be/HgTUuEG96K4

New video about storytelling.

Seems like the Switch game will be even more story focused as they say that depends on how powerful is the hardware.

 

[Boss Doggie]

You're telling me a game with the basic premise of traveling around a country and finding and capturing creatures is inherently incompatible with a more open design structure? Does every trainer in the Pokemon world start in Pallet, Littleroot, Vaniville, and Iki and make their way around the region in the same linear fashion? It doesn't need to be Breath of the Wild, but seeing as one of the franchise's biggest products (Pokemon Go) focuses on going outside and traveling around wherever you want to catch Pokemon and visit landmarks, I don't understand why the main series has to be limited to corridors and limited freedom. I don't expect to ever see it only because Game Freak doesn't really need to do so in order to keep selling as many copies as they've been doing for years now, but I wouldn't say that Pokemon wouldn't work as an open world game. They simply don't care and aren't willing to put in the effort to make it a reality.

It was half-assed when they tried it nearly two decades ago, better never attempt it again!

This 100%. Most of the people here who are saying "Pokemon Breath of the Wild" are putting words in our mouths. It doesn't have to go that far at all. People just want -an- open world, not a limitless open world.

Go is a terrible example for open world since you don't really fight there. Part of the world structure in Pokemon is that you get early weak mons and strong mons later on, with a few mold breakers.

Scaling wouldn't really work as you get stuff like moves requiring to be accurate, not to mention levels and evolution too. People already bitch about stuff like the cheating Dragonite.

 

[MrMephistoX]

Honestly they should just do Sun and Moon with decent AA and high res as a test ASAP: I'd buy the shit out of that while they figure out true HD development.

 

[Neoxon]

Honestly they should just do Sun and Moon with decent AA and high res as a test ASAP: I'd buy the shit out of that while they figure out true HD development.

Same issue as the idea of a Red/Blue remake or Gen 4 remakes to start with, it'd be weird for the Switch's first Pokémon games to be remakes. It's probably gonna be Gen 8's start in 2019, followed by the Gen 4 remakes a year afterwards.

 

[TheGreatLugia]

Here's Ohmori's full quote about story in Pokemon games from the new video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgTUuEG96K4

Interviewer: How do you feel like Game Freak's sense of storytelling has evolved throughout the years and the overall role of storytelling within the series has changed?

Ohmori: I think Pokemon Sun and Moon was one of the titles that had more of a story than previous games. Part of the reason for that is the hardware evolves and it's more capable of visual expression. We feel more compelled to tell a story to the players; It feels like more of a necessary component. The capabilities being there make us want to tell a story. Like previously you couldn't even do facial expressions, but in the latest games you're able to do more rich animations for the characters. Being able to do that, we feel compelled to tell a story and make the overall presentation even more impressive.

 

[LotusHD]

https://youtu.be/HgTUuEG96K4

New video about storytelling.

Seems like the Switch game will be even more story focused as they say that depends on how powerful is the hardware.

That's great to hear. Just add skippable cutscenes this time since I know not everyone gives a shit about the story in a Pokemon game, not to mention it'd annoying when one replay it I suppose.

Also I hope the character we play as actually gets to be expressive this time around. Doesn't even have to talk, just be similar to BoTW/Toon Link, to name an example.

 

[Cerbero]

The game will be 60€ and on the same machine as any other Nintendo game, they're running out of excuses.

GF is not a small indie dev and Pokemon is not a niche game, time to step up.

 

[Neoxon]

The game will be 60€ and on the same machine as any other Nintendo game, they're running out of excuses.

GF is not a small indie dev and Pokemon is not a niche game, time to step up.

Yes, Pokémon is far from niche, but Game Freak (as far as I could research) hasn't really done any AAA console games on the level of what Nintendo EPD or Monolith Soft have done in the last few years. Even the console projects that the guys at Game Freak have done were mainly smaller games in scale.

 

[Mr-Joker]

It was half-assed when they tried it nearly two decades ago, better never attempt it again!

They had their second chance to fix it with the Johto remake and they blew it.

https://youtu.be/HgTUuEG96K4

New video about storytelling.

Seems like the Switch game will be even more story focused as they say that depends on how powerful is the hardware.

It's interesting to see Masuda talk about the theme of Pokémon X and Y as I felt that the story was halfass and incomplete.

 

[TDLink]

They had their second chance to fix it with the Johto remake and they blew it.

I mean, they were literally just redoing what they had already done. It wasn't a brand new game they were doing from scratch, so they were only worried about making sure it was how people remembered (For better or worse).

They haven't actually tried to do the two region thing (or some sort of large post-game) in a long time. And even though it was half-assed, people still ended up liking it quite a bit. I don't get the logic behind never wanting them to try to be ambitious like that again. ESPECIALLY since it was so long ago.

 

[Hydrus]

Yes, Pokémon is far from niche, but Game Freak (as far as I could research) hasn't really done any AAA console games on the level of what Nintendo EPD or Monolith Soft have done in the last few years. Even the console projects that the guys at Game Freak have done were mainly smaller games in scale.

Then hire more talent with experience or let Nintendo make the mainline games. They are company, not a single person with limited game making skills. They legit have no excuses other than being cheap with money and doing the least amount possible to make a game.

 

[Aleh]

https://youtu.be/HgTUuEG96K4

New video about storytelling.

Seems like the Switch game will be even more story focused as they say that depends on how powerful is the hardware.

Yessss. Very happy to hear we'll get even more story-focused games going forward. Sun and Moon were a huge improvement on that front.

 

[Recall]

I wonder if we will ever get a Stadium 3?

I know it's not the best in terms of satisfying the RPG / collect a thon itch but my kid loves playing Stadium 2, so I guess I just want more.