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[entremet]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/02/...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

The Kansas Supreme Court ruled on Thursday that the state’s spending on public education was unconstitutionally low, dealing a new blow to Gov. Sam Brownback, who is facing a rebellion from his own Republican Party over his trademark tax-cutting doctrine.

In a unanimous ruling, the court said black, Hispanic and poor students were especially harmed by the lack of funding, pointing to lagging test scores and graduation rates. The justices set a June 30 deadline for lawmakers to pass a new constitutional funding formula, sending them scrambling to find more money to pay for a solution.

This is the second time in about a year that Kansas’ highest court has ruled against the state’s approach to paying for schools, just as Mr. Brownback finds himself wrestling with growing budget deficits and as his relations with fellow Republicans have deteriorated to new lows.

Holy crap! Brownback is fucking insane.

And this an unanimous ruling a generally red state.

 

[Strike]

Maybe you should raise taxes.

 

[Laevateinn]

More tax cuts would help fund the schools.

 

[skullmuffins]

just give it 10 years. it'll work out eventually

Spoiler

/s

 

[Rhomega Beta]

Maybe you should raise taxes.

But tax is theft, trickle down economics, raising funding doesn't improve test results!

When's this guy going to be out again?

 

[jon bones]

What a disaster Kansas has been. I pray it's not our whole country's future.

 

[Laevateinn]

But tax is theft, trickle down economics, raising funding doesn't improve test results!

When's this guy going to be out again?

The state can't afford elections anymore. He's in for life.

 

[drspeedy]

What a disaster Kansas has been. I pray it's not our whole country's future.

As they say:


Pray in one hand then piss in the other... And tell us which one has something in it

 

[BigBeauford]

The easiest solution is to start making these corporations and businesses pay taxes. I can assure you that middle class families are definitely paying their fair share as is.

 

[LegoDad]

The easiest solution is to start making these corporations and businesses pay taxes. I can assure you that middle class families are definitely paying their fair share as is.

You do know the reason this happened was because of the tax cuts for self employed, along with ten thousand other stupid decisions by Brownback.

 

[Makki]

Trickle down education, you just gotta hit the books harder. You think you are entitled to teachers? hah!

 

[Fuchsdh]

But tax is theft, trickle down economics, raising funding doesn't improve test results!

When's this guy going to be out again?

The latter is actually true, if we're talking about good schools. Your money does progressively less. Of course, this isn't the same issue with low-performing schools... wonder who often goes to those ones...

Can't wait to see how much bullshit Kansas and other red states pull to rip apart the judiciaries for stopping them from impoverishing their citizens too much.

 

[Angelus Errare]

I for one am shocked that trickle down is a load of shit that doesn't work because it doesn't make any fucking sense!

 

[Beelzeboss]

Just think too there are governors out there that think this is working and want to adopt the same model.

 

[BigBeauford]

You do know the reason this happened was because of the tax cuts for self employed, along with ten thousand other stupid decisions by Brownback.

You are right, but the knee jerk reaction was initially to raise state income taxes higher. I can attest we will move across state lines if they do so. Already pay 10% sales tax in this county, and owed $200 bucks on our state taxes. The proposed increase would have had us owing 1300 more.

 

[thehypocrite]

A shame that the future of those children gets compromised by this experiment

 

[TheLaughingStock]

The easiest solution is to start making these corporations and businesses pay taxes. I can assure you that middle class families are definitely paying their fair share as is.

The easiest would be to grovel for help from Congress and stop hammering the vulnerable via emergency measures ASAP. But they're free to wallow and suffer if they want to go at it alone. Sucks for the kids and needy though. Not enough people are voting or whining to enact change.

 

[Protein]

How 'bout we cut taxes? Or what if we frack more?

 

[norm9]

More tax cuts would help fund the schools.

Exactly.

 

[darkace]

The easiest solution is to start making these corporations and businesses pay taxes. I can assure you that middle class families are definitely paying their fair share as is.

No, the easiest solution is a land tax, taxing carbon or a consumption tax. Taxing companies is the worst possible way of raising revenue there is. Companies aren't distinct entities, they're legal fictions we've designed to efficiently manage labour and capital. Any tax on companies is felt by workers. Same reason a fuel tax is felt by the consumers and not fuel.

 

[thehypocrite]

No, the easiest solution is a land tax, taxing carbon or a consumption tax. Taxing companies is the worst possible way of raising revenue there is.

It just needs more time to work right?

 

[Dineren]

The only satisfying part of the election was the state GOP failing to remove these supreme court justices.

 

[Hazmat]

Start sending the kids down to the far side of the Bear Moats to harvest the bullet-ridden pelts that will soon adorn the shoulders of society's elite.

 

[theWB27]

Just so much bs that you have to be told by the law that the money spent to educate the youth is illegally low.

 

[darkace]

It just needs more time to work right?

Labour and capital will take years to fully react to the new incentive regime. Up to two decades, depending on the exact tax changes. Brownback won't ever be able to grow the economy to the extent required to make up the lost revenue though, he seems to be running state finances on BernieMath.

 

[Slayven]

Take a good look Kansas is USA's future

 

[thehypocrite]

Labour and capital will take years to fully react to the new incentive regime. Up to two decades, depending on the exact tax changes. Brownback won't ever be able to grow the economy to the extent required to make up the revenue though, he seems to be running state finances on BernieMath.

What makes you say 2 decades? Why would a politician would start something like this if it would only produce positive effects in 2 decades? Is he stupid? And ideologue? Why is he running state finances badly? I thought he cut the budget, significantly.

 

[Ogodei]

What can the courts do if they say no? Shut down the schools?

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Just last month, the Republican-dominated Legislature approved a tax increase that would have raised more than $1 billion to help narrow the budget gap — a bold rejection of Mr. Brownback’s vision. In the end, the governor vetoed the measure, and he barely survived an override attempt. The school funding ruling now adds yet another layer of fiscal trouble for Kansas and political tumult for Mr. Brownback.

What the fuck, governor...

 

[KMS]

What can the courts do if they say no? Shut down the schools?

Couple years ago they threaten to shut down the judiciary if they ruled against them in school funding. http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/09/why-entire-kansas-court-system-could-shut-down

 

[darkace]

What makes you say 2 decades?

That's the length of time capital markets take to fully change to CGT and company tax changes.

Why would a politician would start something like this if it would only produce positive effects in 2 decades?

Cutting taxes has positive effects immediately, the full effects take place over time. Politicians are elected to look over the long-term. Ideally politicians would enact low marginal rates of taxes with low DWL to fund necessary infrastructure, public goods, etc.

Why is he running state finances badly? I thought he cut the budget, significantly.

Too much, clearly.

 

[UnknownSpirit]

Sometimes I wonder if Kansas and Oklahoma have a "anything you can do I can do better".


Like a few weeks ago a wonderful state senator called women "hosts"

It's like Kansas said "hold my beer, I'll do better"

 

[thehypocrite]

That's the length of time capital markets take to fully change to CGT and company tax changes.
Cutting taxes has positive effects immediately, the full effects take place over time. Politicians are elected to look over the long-term. Ideally politicians would enact low marginal rates of taxes with low DWL to fund necessary infrastructure, public goods, etc.
Too much, clearly.

That sounds wrong. There's no way that these days the information would take that long to generate positive effects if they are there to be had. Such a long time allows for multiple confounding factors to be more relevant than tax changes. Who would carry the tax burden of these low marginal taxes? But wasn't cutting that much a result of the upstream tax cuts?

 

[GameAddict411]

Trickle down economy never works. In fact the term became more known when corporation started lobbying the capital for tax breaks. Republicans as evil and corrupt as they embraced it because of the cash flow from these companies. The victim are the people who experience extensive cuts in social programs and services. Educational funding goes to keep the hillbillies alive and well. Keep them uninformed and uneducated so that they don't realise how much Republicans have fucked them over though out the years.

 

[Killerhertz]

If I'm not mistaken, and feel free to correct me here, but couldn't this simply be solved with a tax cut?

 

[Silver Arrows]

Oh yay, the resident Brownback fanboy is back!

Darkace, how do you feel about the fact that Brownback is literally killing education in Kansas, and driving the state to the ground?

 

[darkace]

That sounds wrong.

It's not.

Such a long time allows for multiple confounding factors to be more relevant than tax changes.

Thankfully we can control for variables.

Who would carry the tax burden of these low marginal taxes?

Whoever policy makers want. The transfer system can be made as progressive or regressive as people want.

 

[GameAddict411]

That's the length of time capital markets take to fully change to CGT and company tax changes.



Cutting taxes has positive effects immediately, the full effects take place over time. Politicians are elected to look over the long-term. Ideally politicians would enact low marginal rates of taxes with low DWL to fund necessary infrastructure, public goods, etc.



Too much, clearly.

You better start providing receipts for that.

 

[guek]

Maybe you should raise taxes.

the finger thing means taxes!!

 

[Steel]

Labour and capital will take years to fully react to the new incentive regime. Up to two decades, depending on the exact tax changes. Brownback won't ever be able to grow the economy to the extent required to make up the lost revenue though, he seems to be running state finances on BernieMath.

Haha... Yeah, no, that's not how it works. And, even if it was(It most certainly is not), what the hell do you think happens to the Kansas economy in those intervening two decades?

Not to mention that the low education funding turns out the country's most unskilled workers, making the entire state unappealing to business.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Haha... Yeah, no, that's not how it works. And, even if it was(It most certainly is not), what the hell do you think happens to the Kansas economy in those intervening two decades?

It sits under the soil germinating, until 20 years later, if you look closely, real closely, you'll see the corpse of a severely malnourished toddler cause more social services were cut

 

[sangreal]

Again? I thought they were going to restructure the court or something after the last time

 

[darkace]

Haha... Yeah, no, that's not how it works. And, even if it was(It most certainly is not), what the hell do you think happens to the Kansas economy in those intervening two decades?

Haha yea it is how it works. Capital is fixed in the short run. And Kansas can enact more efficient taxes or cut other un-productive spending unrelated to the necessities. Or continue doing whatever the hell Browback is doing.

Not to mention that the low education funding turns out the country's most unskilled workers, making the entire state unappealing to business.

Investments in education take longer to provide dividends than tax cuts, so it's weird you're pushing for one but not the other.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

I'd be scared to see how a classroom looks like there, in terms of supplies, tech, etc.

 

[thehypocrite]

It's not.



Thankfully we can control for variables.



Whoever policy makers want. The transfer system can be made as progressive or regressive as people want.

Not that well. Any statisticians know that the more you control for a model the less predictive power it actually has outside of that data set. Your last comment is dishonest, we all know that not all groups have equal political power so it would probably be through regressive taxation, again subsidizing corporate welfare from the pockets of regular citizens.

 

[Steel]

Education takes less than 20 years to pay dividends. It affects people currently in high school, so it pays dividends rather quickly. Tax cutting like crazy ensures that education is not funded, as well, so it is very much related.

And what you're saying is that it takes a long time for large companies to decide to move based on taxes... But by the time they make the decision to move Kansas's economy is shit and undesirable(It already is), not to mention that the education cuts makes the work force less desirable even in the short term(People won't want to move to Kansas and have their children go to shit schools) better yet in the long term.

Your suggestion that Brownback find a place where money is being spent somewhere magically unproductive in any significant amount is fantasyland. It's already all been cut.

And "Efficient taxation" is just a buzzterm that doesn't mean anything.

But, please, show me the economists who think that Kansas is being run properly. There has to be at least one whacko out there.

 

[Team Alucard]

Why do people still respond to darkace? He's one of those guys who took a microecon 101 class and treated everything he learned in it like irrefutable gospel, despite the fact that much of it doesn't even work in the real world where most people are not rational actors.

Economics is not a legitimate science and does not deserve to be treated and respected as one.

 

[Steel]

Why do people still respond to darkace? He's one of those guys who took a microecon 101 class and treated everything he learned in it like irrefutable gospel, despite the fact that much of it doesn't work in the real world where most people are not rational actors.

I mean, there's a guy that's just like Darkace running Kansas, so, may as well. Besides, what he's spouting isn't the type of shit they taught in any of my economics courses, cause they teach that stuff like this is idiotic in the real world.

 

[thehypocrite]

I think darkace is Brownback economic advisor. He convinced his kind soul to sacrifice his political future for the betterment of his constituents or to carry out his ideological experiment.


You decide.

 

[cdyhybrid]

I'd be scared to see how a classroom looks like there, in terms of supplies, tech, etc.

Who needs textbooks and chalkboards when you have American flags and crosses?