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[beelzebozo]

I'd love to see these guys do something for 360/PS3.

i imagine they will. i think it'll be a damn shame if they move to making a straight-up fps, though--there are plenty of those to go around. i'll apply that same logic to car combat games, and all the other stuff that they were working on at one time that was eventually canceled. in my ideal world, they form their own studio, and make an action/adventure game (more adventure than action) that leans heavily on the basics of metroid while taking it in some weird new directions. i'm not entirely sure they're interested in doing that though, since "creative freedom" seems to be a consistently noted factor in their departure; i doubt they'd want to slip right back under the proverbial metroid thumb if they didn't have to.

 

[Haunted]

Yay for the next game/studio these three might work on/for.

Hmm for the next Retro Studios game.



How many people were on Retro's last dev team? ah, found it - apparently ~60 people are working at Retro at the moment. Well, 57 now. :/

 

[Epiphyte]

i imagine they will. i think it'll be a damn shame if they move to making a straight-up fps, though--there are plenty of those to go around. i'll apply that same logic to car combat games, and all the other stuff that they were working on at one time that was eventually canceled. in my ideal world, they form their own studio, and make an action/adventure game (more adventure than action) that leans heavily on the basics of metroid while taking it in some weird new directions. i'm not entirely sure they're interested in doing that though, since "creative freedom" seems to be a consistently noted factor in their departure; i doubt they'd want to slip right back under the proverbial metroid thumb if they didn't have to.

Noted by whom?

 

[beelzebozo]

by "they." rumor and hearsay. surfergirl. so it's pretty much not true, but hey, if i was going to make a big post full of speculation, why not utilize all the bullshit i can?

 

[Princess Skittles]

i imagine they will. i think it'll be a damn shame if they move to making a straight-up fps, though--

I'd 100% fully expect it. They did try turning Metroid into just that, after all.

 

[beelzebozo]

I'd 100% fully expect it. They did try turning Metroid into just that, after all.

if you're being sincere, i think the distinction between what they did with metroid prime and a straight-up fps is worth noting.

if you're being snarky, i hate you

 

[Archaon]

Because its the worst controller to use for FPS's?

Because Metroid Prime for Gamecube was one of the best looking games of its time, but the Wii version has fallen behind? The Gamecube games didn't play like a regular FPS anyways so I don't see why they would change that. Of course this is all mostly pointless because we won't see Metroid anywhere but a Nintendo system.

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

Currently, Retro Studios is searching for new staff:

Profile
Job Field Game Development
Locations TX-Austin
Organization Retro Studios
Schedule Full-time


Additional Information
Number of Positions 3

Source with more details

Is it a coincidence that 3 person are researched?

 

[Bluemercury]

I wonder when will they give any info....

 

[Princess Skittles]

if you're being sincere, i think the distinction between what they did with metroid prime and a straight-up fps is worth noting.

I am specifically noting Corruption, for the record. And only that they were TRYING, Nintendo's management on the project probably kept their generic space marine shit in check (to a degree). Prime and Echoes (sans the lame opening messages) were perfect as far as transitioning Metroid into a first-person shooter/adventure.

 

[wsippel]

Because Metroid Prime for Gamecube was one of the best looking games of its time, but the Wii version has fallen behind? The Gamecube games didn't play like a regular FPS anyways so I don't see why they would change that. Of course this is all mostly pointless because we won't see Metroid anywhere but a Nintendo system.

Metroid Prime 3 is still one of the best looking games of this generation. The excellent art really helped. Sure, they could have done more on more powerful hardware, but it looks absolutelty amazing nevertheless.

 

[Jokeropia]

I'm ok with this. I absolutely love the Prime games, but I can see that there might be time for the franchise to move in a new direction.

 

[Kittonwy]

Because its the worst controller to use for FPS's?

How so? The Dual Shock 3 is fantastic when the controls are tuned, in Resistance it's not unusual to see people getting sniped right out of mid-air or someone in mid-air floating on an air vent sniping people down below, I'm talking about headshots from across the map, both sticks are very precise. If you want to list controllers that are terrible for FPS games, the GC and DC controllers would be at the top of the list given the lack of a viable right stick.

 

[evilromero]

How so? The Dual Shock 3 is fantastic when the controls are tuned, in Resistance it's not unusual to see people getting sniped right out of mid-air or someone in mid-air floating on an air vent sniping people down below, I'm talking about headshots from across the map, both sticks are very precise. If you want to list controllers that are terrible for FPS games, the GC and DC controllers would be at the top of the list given the lack of a viable right stick.

Did you even touch a GC controller?

 

[Taker666]

A shame this has happened...but a fresh influx of new talent is just as likely to improve things as make them worse.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

How so? The Dual Shock 3 is fantastic when the controls are tuned, in Resistance it's not unusual to see people getting sniped right out of mid-air or someone in mid-air floating on an air vent sniping people down below, I'm talking about headshots from across the map, both sticks are very precise. If you want to list controllers that are terrible for FPS games, the GC and DC controllers would be at the top of the list given the lack of a viable right stick.

DS3 is definitely the worst out of the current systems. Hell, even the DS has better aiming if you use the thumb strap. This is getting off topic though :lol

I still can't wait to see what Retro has planned next...unless their new project is related to this. That's a pretty bad sign.

 

[Kittonwy]

Right, it was Jeff and the Retro managers. The word on the street back then was that the vice presidents left in control while he partied were total clowns too. The N-Sider article goes on to say that many people left after Metroid Prime because Barcia(one of the former VPs) was still in charge.

I'm not trying to make an argument about who at Retro was at fault, anyway. I'm just pointing out that these games were canceled because of management and incompetence, not because of a lack of creative freedom.

Why is upper management responsible for development progress though, that's the job for the director and producer, not a bunch of execs who should be focusing on the big picture, if people aren't getting paid, that would be the fault of the execs and the president, if the development progress isn't there, shouldn't the director and the producer be the ones to take the blame?

If the games are crap, they should be cancelled, the games being crap isn't the fault of the management, it's the fault of the people working on it, meaning the creative team, and maybe they should layoff those people and hire somebody better, what the management is at fault for is not canning bad projects, or greenlighting bad ideas, but the games being in a crappy state is a problem with the team.

 

[evilromero]

Where any of these guys responsible for Samus' shitty friends? If so then goodbye.

 

[Kittonwy]

Did you even touch a GC controller?

I currently own a GC, or do you not notice the fact that the c-stick is simply NOT a viable right analog stick for shooters?

 

[evilromero]

I currently own a GC, or do you not notice the fact that the c-stick is simply NOT a viable right analog stick for shooters?

Why? It's analog. What else does it need? It functions the exact same way as the other controllers.

 

[Kittonwy]

DS3 is definitely the worst out of the current systems. Hell, even the DS has better aiming if you use the thumb strap. This is getting off topic though :lol

I still can't wait to see what Retro has planned next...unless their new project is related to this. That's a pretty bad sign.

You say that based on the fact that you've played Resistance using a Dual Shock 3? Because if people can actually pull off skill shots such as head snipes WHILE IN MOTION, it goes to show the controller has to be very precise to allow such actions CONSISTENTLY. You might not be used to the Dual Shock 3 but when it's configured correctly like in Resistance it's an excellent controller for FPS games. The analog sticks on the sixaxis and Dual Shock 3 right now has the highest precision of any first party analog sticks out there spec-wise.

 

[Kittonwy]

Why? It's analog. What else does it need? It functions the exact same way as the other controllers.

It needs to be something other than a nub. Obviously I'm not complaining about the left stick but the c-stick is horrible and overall not optimal for a dual analog scheme.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

You say that based on the fact that you've played Resistance using a Dual Shock 3? Because if people can actually pull off skill shots such as head snipes WHILE IN MOTION, it goes to show the controller has to be very precise to allow such actions CONSISTENTLY. You might not be used to the Dual Shock 3 but when it's configured correctly like in Resistance it's an excellent controller for FPS games. The analog sticks on the sixaxis and Dual Shock 3 right now has the highest precision of any first party analog sticks out there spec-wise.

But at the end of the day they're still analog sticks (so that's -100 points for FPS already) and the 360 pad has better placement.

 

[leroy hacker]

Why is upper management responsible for development progress though, that's the job for the director and producer, not a bunch of execs who should be focusing on the big picture, if people aren't getting paid, that would be the fault of the execs and the president, if the development progress isn't there, shouldn't the director and the producer be the ones to take the blame?

If the games are crap, they should be cancelled, the games being crap isn't the fault of the management, it's the fault of the people working on it, meaning the creative team, and maybe they should layoff those people and hire somebody better, what the management is at fault for is not canning bad projects, or greenlighting bad ideas, but the games being in a crappy state is a problem with the team.

I'm not trying to make an argument about who at Retro was at fault, anyway. I'm just pointing out that these games were canceled because of [mis]management and incompetence, not because of a lack of creative freedom.

Are you Jeff Spangenberg or another former Retro manager? I don't understand why else you would be trying to defend them. Did you miss the part about about how he didn't do anything during the year 2001? You talk about focusing on the big picture, but isn't having most of your game projects fail part of the big picture?

Anyway, Nintendo fired most of the employees working on the canceled games, so whoever you want to blame, they were punished(except Steve Barcia).

Also from the N-sider article, from an anonymous former Retro employee.

"And there were indeed issues with the higher-ups, including people who used company computer hardware to run porn websites out of their home and others who embezzled hundreds of thousands from the company and fled the country. It's no wonder that Nintendo was able to purchase Retro for the ridiculous price of one million - I'm amazed they wanted it at all."

 

[ziran]

If creative differences, and ultimately a lack of creative freedom is the reason for these guys leaving, it really is Retro and Nintendo's loss.

It's going to be difficult to know what really went on, but iirc one of the ex-Retro guys, Jack Mathews, posts on Shacknews, so what we're hearing is likely to be his side. Obviously there's going to be Retro's/Nintendo's version of events (which we will probably never hear beyond PR), with the truth being somewhere in-between.

The real problem with a lot of these kinds of splits is future games usually end up suffering. Obviously both Retro and the guys who've left will continue to make quality games, but I doubt they will be as good as the stuff they made collectively, which is the real shame.

Still interested in seeing what they all come up with next though.

 

[gabe90]

This is like a nightmare. How is this happening?

 

[Vinci]

Also from the N-sider article, from an anonymous former Retro employee.

Wow. That's crazy.

 

[Kittonwy]

But at the end of the day they're still analog sticks (so that's -100 points for FPS already) and the 360 pad has better placement.

If you're going to penalize it for the fact that it's an analog stick set-up then basically the wii has the same problem since the left stick is still analog, and you still don't have a mouse kb set-up. I would like to hear some stories of people pulling off all sorts of cool stunts in multiplayer shooters on the wii if you think it has such a fantastic controller for fps, because I play Resistance almost daily and I see mid-air head snipes on a regular basis and people strafe and snipe all the time, you're basically making a general knock against it without actually using the controller in a game that is optimized.

360 may have better placement for some people, personally I prefer symmetrical stick placement, 360 pad has lesser precision spec-wise though.

 

[mentalfloss]

How so? The Dual Shock 3 is fantastic when the controls are tuned, in Resistance it's not unusual to see people getting sniped right out of mid-air or someone in mid-air floating on an air vent sniping people down below, I'm talking about headshots from across the map, both sticks are very precise. If you want to list controllers that are terrible for FPS games, the GC and DC controllers would be at the top of the list given the lack of a viable right stick.

GC controller is much better for fps. Sony's pad is good for racers and fighters, immhmhmhmhmhho

 

[Xapati]

It needs to be something other than a nub. Obviously I'm not complaining about the left stick but the c-stick is horrible and overall not optimal for a dual analog scheme.

I have no trouble whatsoever with the c-stick on the cube controller.

 

[Vaxadrin]

There's a reason the first two Metroid Prime games didn't use the far superior dual analog setup...

 

[mentalfloss]

I have no trouble whatsoever with the c-stick on the cube controller.

Yea, I personally prefer the nub myself. And the placement on the dual-shock makes movement feel robotic. One analog stick should be higher than the other ala X360.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

snip

Movement with the analog stick is not the problem.

I'm not trying to say the Wii setup is amazing, but it made a fairly mediocre game (MoH:H2) pretty awesome.

 

[JasonUresti]

I am specifically noting Corruption, for the record. And only that they were TRYING, Nintendo's management on the project probably kept their generic space marine shit in check (to a degree). Prime and Echoes (sans the lame opening messages) were perfect as far as transitioning Metroid into a first-person shooter/adventure.

The Retro Metroid Prime games are not "generic" space marine FPS. I'm guessing you don't have a long history of playing these "generic" FPS games, otherwise you would be able to note the difference. The Prime series are true adventure games, the combat is never particularly challenging, and much of it relies on solving the puzzle of what weapon or where to hit the enemy, and then it becomes easy. What FPS games have you actually played? I think even the most feeble minded video game player could tell the difference between the design of say, Halo, Doom, Half Life, Resistance, Crysis, Far Cry, Unreal, Prey, Bioshock (whoa, look at all those "generic space marine" FPS I just listed) as compared to Metroid Prime.

I also very much enjoy your "logic" that it was the golden Japanese gods of Nintendo that kept them from turning it into a space marine FPS. Great powers of deduction their, based in fanboy logic and ignorance.

 

[jjasper]

He is only talking about the 3rd one.

 

[Kittonwy]

Are you Jeff Spangenberg or another former Retro manager? I don't understand why else you would be trying to defend them. Did you miss the part about about how he didn't do anything during the year 2001? You talk about focusing on the big picture, but isn't having most of your game projects fail part of the big picture?

Anyway, Nintendo fired most of the employees working on the canceled games, so whoever you want to blame, they were punished(except Steve Barcia).

Also from the N-sider article, from an anonymous former Retro employee.

My question is did Jeff personally do any of this? Obviously Jeff is responsible for not canning those projects himself or at least consolidate some of the staff on more viable projects, but what were the producers doing? Who was the chief creative officer? There were a lot of people responsible for the failure that were the canned projects and they are now all gone, but I'm just curious why Jeff Spangenberg is blamed exclusively.

 

[leroy hacker]

My question is did Jeff personally do any of this? Obviously Jeff is responsible for not canning those projects himself or at least consolidate some of the staff on more viable projects, but what were the producers doing? Who was the chief creative officer? There were a lot of people responsible for the failure that were the canned projects and they are now all gone, but I'm just curious why Jeff Spangenberg is blamed exclusively.

The point is that he didn't do anything.

He wasn't watching over the projects, he wasn't watching over the managers below him, he wasn't dealing with ego clashes. The people immediately below him were alleged to be incompetent as well, but they were people he hired and failed to meaningfully oversee.
When every single Retro project failed except the one Nintendo was running directly, don't think you it's reasonable to assume there were some high level problems with how the company was run?

Also, the biggest piece of evidence that he fucked up is that Nintendo bought his share for $1 million and got rid of him. If it were just the people below him, why couldn't he replace them himself? Why was the only salvation for Retro his removal? Why couldn't he turn around the company himself?

And why was Nintendo able to get such a low asking price? Such a developer, or even the physical plant alone, would probably be worth more on the open market. That was money they were paying him to go away without a legal battle.

 

[avatar299]

My question is did Jeff personally do any of this? Obviously Jeff is responsible for not canning those projects himself or at least consolidate some of the staff on more viable projects, but what were the producers doing? Who was the chief creative officer? There were a lot of people responsible for the failure that were the canned projects and they are now all gone, but I'm just curious why Jeff Spangenberg is blamed exclusively.

Becuase he didn't do his damn job?

Edit: i'm late.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

When you're laid off, you're usually allowed to finish out your time on the job in peace and then leave on your own. When you're escorted out, the term is being fired.

Yeah, which seems weird when the article suggests that maybe they're starting a new studio. What, they decided to start a new studio and get out of Retro by synchronizing firings? Or it's commonplace for new studios to start up in the shadows, leading to firings when the current employer finds out?

At least they weren't Yokoi'd.

<willfullymisunderstanding> Sure, but who wants to play a puzzle game called Todd?

 

[SpokkX]

A shame they left. Looking forward to their next project as a new company(?)

I don´t believe this will be a hugh blow for Retro though.

I believe the "real talent" at Retro is, and has always been, the Nintendo quailty control on first party developed games. They do not release something that isn´t polished and good.

 

[charlequin]

Yeah, which seems weird when the article suggests that maybe they're starting a new studio.

Yep. There are basically three possible situations here.

1) Surfer Girl is interjecting some bullshit and no one was "escorted" anywhere; they left on their own, they got the normal "uh, seeya, I guess" sendoff from the company.

2) Shacknews is interjecting some bullshit with the "left to form their own studio" bit; they just got canned and someone's trying to spin it.

3) They left of their own will but acrimoniously, possibly in a fit of rage to start their own, totally way more awesome!!! studio; they got escorted out because the bosses were, rightly or wrongly, unhappy with them and wanted to give them the worst possible sendoff.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

A shame they left. Looking forward to their next project as a new company(?)

I don´t believe this will be a hugh blow for Retro though.

I believe the "real talent" at Retro is, and has always been, the Nintendo quailty control on first party developed games. They do not release something that isn´t polished and good.

I haven't played it, but I hear that Donkey Kong racing game is pretty awful.

 

[SpokkX]

yeah but that was developed by a third party, right?

Nintendo has published some questionable games developed by third parties but games developed by first party (EAD, IS, Retro) are always of a high quality

 

[Shiggy]

I haven't played it, but I hear that Donkey Kong racing game is pretty awful.

That was done by PAON, so no 1st party

 

[jarrod]

360 may have better placement for some people, personally I prefer symmetrical stick placement, 360 pad has lesser precision spec-wise though.

Er... so where can I find information on the various analog stick specs actually? Honestly, I'd be surprised if any of them were different in terms of sensitivity specs?

 

[Ysiadmihi]

That was done by PAON, so no 1st party

Ah, my apologies. Still, I'm bothered Nintendo allowed that to be released.

 

[[Nintex]]

Guys, don't forget that some really disturbing photos of Jeff Spangenberg hit the web.


The current Retro is a whole different beast though. Most programming staff of MP3 were contracters and not full time employees. Retro has changed alot over the years.

Nintendo buys Retro > kicks out everyone working on "dead" projects.
Metroid Prime aftermath > developers leave the company after all the shit that happened
Metroid Prime 2 > during development more people left since it was obvious that they were working on Metroid and Metroid alone
Metroid Prime 3 > contracters hired to make up for the staff losses over the years

Metroid Prime 1 staff removed the guys who didn't make it to part 3:

Lead Designer - Retro Studios Mark Pacini
Senior Designer Karl Deckard
Senior Designer Mike Wikan
Designer Jason Behr
Designer Tony Giovannini
Designer Paul Reed
Designer Amanda Rubright
Lead Engineer Mark Johnston
Technical Lead Engineer Jack Mathews
Technical Lead Engineer Andy O'Neil
Senior Engineer Mark Haigh-Hutchinson (died early this year, RIP)
Senior Engineer David Kirsch
Engineer Ted Chauviere
Engineer Irving Mah
Engineer Alex Quinones
Engineer Akintunde Omitowoju
Engineer Jim Gage
Engineer Steve McCrea
Engineer Kai Martin
Engineer Marco Thrush
Artist Chuck Crist
Artist Andrew Jones (left Retro last year)
Artist Ryan Powell
Artist Luis Ramirez
Artist Alejandro Roura
Artist LeRoy Strauss
Artist Don Hogan
Artist Gene Kohler
Artist Elizabeth Pugh
Artist Danny Richardson
Artist Elben Schafers
Animator Derek Bonikowski
Animator Dax Pallota
Animator Stephen Zafros
Audio Lead Clark Wen
Sound Designer Frank Bry
Sound Designer Ken Kurita-Ditz
Sound Designer Crispin Hands
Sound Designer Kristoffer Larson
Production Assistant Ryan Harris
Retro Studios Executive Producer Steve Barcia
Retro Studios Producer Michael Mann
Retro Studios - Lead Artist Todd Keller
Retro Studios - Senior Artist Mike Sneath
Retro Studios - Senior Artist Chris Voellmann

Most of them got replaced, but it still shows why MP1 was leagues better than MP2.
Without Todd Keller, Mark Pacini and and the others that left there is no "Retro Studios" left.

 

[Xisiqomelir]

So Metroid won't be molested any more? Excellent.

 

[beef3483]

Most of them got replaced, but it still shows why MP1 was leagues better than MP3.Without Todd Keller, Mark Pacini and and the others that left there is no "Retro Studios" left.

That is only your opinion. Many think MP3 is just as good if not better than MP1.

And as far as art direction is concerned, I personally feel that MP3 shits all over MP1.

And company turnover is a part of the business. It wouldn't suprise that if you looked at many Western studios from ten years ago till now that you would see similar turnover.

 

[jjasper]

One thing that is for certain is that MP3 shits all over MP1 in art direction.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.