SappYoda
Member
True, I didn't even have to tweak the controls they are perfect for me.Snaku said:I played the demo a dozen times...I've never done that with a demo.
True, I didn't even have to tweak the controls they are perfect for me.Snaku said:I played the demo a dozen times...I've never done that with a demo.
After playing the demo a few times, I'm not sure I agree entirely with their assessment of the controls. I appreciate the fact that they went for a "weightier" experience, but I think they missed the mark slightly when it comes to making the player feel "connected" to the character's aiming-related movement.Jtyettis said:GG responds to some of the controller complaints;
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone2&thread.id=143456
depward said:KZ is slower and more deliberate. There's weight. You jump and it's going to act like a human's jumping.
Zeliard said:They don't need fixing. It's honestly a little embarrassing that people are complaining about "aim lag" as if it isn't an obviously conscious design decision meant to give the movement and gunplay some weight. There's nothing to patch.
depward said:Peoples: CoD controls are twitch. It's not how real human beings can run, jump, turn, spin, all of that. There's absolutely no weight to your dude in the game.
KZ is slower and more deliberate. There's weight. You jump and it's going to act like a human's jumping.
Bananimus said:After playing the demo a few times, I'm not sure I agree entirely with their assessment of the controls. I appreciate the fact that they went for a "weightier" experience, but I think they missed the mark slightly when it comes to making the player feel "connected" to the character's aiming-related movement.
There's a significant (in my opinion) dead zone on the aiming-related analog stick. I'm not sure if a similar dead zone is present on the movement stick, but movement felt fine. After this dead zone, aiming speed ramps up way too fast (in relation to the position of the analog stick). In other words, I think the region of analog stick position suitable for "fine aiming" (as opposed to coarse positioning) is much too small. As a result, even if your coarse positioning of the reticle puts you near your intended target, attempts at fine-tuning your aim often results in your cross hair (or sights) moving not enough (on account of the dead zone) or too much (on account of the small region suitable for fine-tuning your aim). Of the two, I believe that the large dead zone is the worst offender.
The result, at least in my case, was an experience where I was constantly fighting the controls while lining up shots. For reference, I eventually settled on the sensitivity two notches above default. It wasn't ideal, but it was least workable.
It's a fun demo, but I do believe some fine tuning of the controls is in order (or at least making available some additional controller settings). I'll be playing the full version regardless.
Karma said:Their conscious design decision to add weight made it sluggish and not fun. Being realistic does not make it fun.
Rapping Granny said:The only problem I have with the controls is the "hold crouch for cover", I hope they can patch it to toggle.
belvedere said:I hear there's a bug that makes KZ2 look and play nothing like Halo.
Come on guys, there's no fucking bug with the controls. Just because it doesn't look, play and generally "feel" like every other fps on the market doesn't mean it's a technical issue.
This is exactly what I do. The dead zone is still present when I pull up the sights, and it throws me off. I should note that I don't have a problem getting my crosshair/sights near the enemy. It's during the fine-tuning that the controls become an issue.Private Hoffman said:You're supposed to aim in the general direction before you shoot, and then pull up the scopes if necessary for finer movement...
depward said:I'm convinced too many people are used to the super-fast twitchy CoD-type FPS controls and, when playing the KZ2 demo, think it's "sluggish" or "unresponsive."
Peoples: CoD controls are twitch. It's not how real human beings can run, jump, turn, spin, all of that. There's absolutely no weight to your dude in the game.
KZ is slower and more deliberate. There's weight. You jump and it's going to act like a human's jumping.
Bananimus said:After playing the demo a few times, I'm not sure I agree entirely with their assessment of the controls. I appreciate the fact that they went for a "weightier" experience, but I think they missed the mark slightly when it comes to making the player feel "connected" to the character's aiming-related movement.
There's a significant (in my opinion) dead zone on the aiming-related analog stick. I'm not sure if a similar dead zone is present on the movement stick, but movement felt fine. After this dead zone, aiming speed ramps up way too fast (in relation to the position of the analog stick). In other words, I think the region of analog stick position suitable for "fine aiming" (as opposed to coarse positioning) is much too small. As a result, even if your coarse positioning of the reticle puts you near your intended target, attempts at fine-tuning your aim often results in your cross hair (or sights) moving not enough (on account of the dead zone) or too much (on account of the small region suitable for fine-tuning your aim).
The result, at least in my case, was an experience where I was constantly fighting the controls while lining up shots. For reference, I eventually settled on the sensitivity two notches above default. It wasn't ideal, but it was least workable.
It's a fun demo, but I do believe some fine tuning of the controls is in order (or at least making available some additional controller settings). I'll be playing the full version regardless.
Fenderputty said:Ignore Zhuk. If you would like to see what sort of a poster he is, go check his history over at N4G. Don't ever take him seriously when it come to PS3 games.
Karma said:Their conscious design decision to add weight made it sluggish and not fun. Being realistic does not make it fun.
Bananimus said:After playing the demo a few times, I'm not sure I agree entirely with their assessment of the controls. I appreciate the fact that they went for a "weightier" experience, but I think they missed the mark slightly when it comes to making the player feel "connected" to the character's aiming-related movement.
There's a significant (in my opinion) dead zone on the aiming-related analog stick. I'm not sure if a similar dead zone is present on the movement stick, but movement felt fine. After this dead zone, aiming speed ramps up way too fast (in relation to the position of the analog stick). In other words, I think the region of analog stick position suitable for "fine aiming" (as opposed to coarse positioning) is much too small. As a result, even if your coarse positioning of the reticle puts you near your intended target, attempts at fine-tuning your aim often results in your cross hair (or sights) moving not enough (on account of the dead zone) or too much (on account of the small region suitable for fine-tuning your aim).
The result, at least in my case, was an experience where I was constantly fighting the controls while lining up shots. For reference, I eventually settled on the sensitivity two notches above default. It wasn't ideal, but it was least workable.
It's a fun demo, but I do believe some fine tuning of the controls is in order (or at least making available some additional controller settings). I'll be playing the full version regardless.
There's a noticeable region of analog stick movement that doesn't translate to any on-screen movement. Just outside this range, aiming is extremely slow, but visible. If there is any appreciable acceleration at this point, it's very difficult to notice. Aiming speed/acceleration quickly ramps up after leaving this dead zone. I've held the stick at the very edge of the dead zone for extended periods of time (10 to 15 seconds) with no visible movement. It's definitely there.Zeliard said:Are you sure you're not mixing up dead zone issues with turn acceleration? Because the latter seems to be what's going on. The shorter you edge the right stick, the slower the crosshair moves. Same thing, in reverse, the further you move it. It can take some getting used to.
Ctrl+F: "crouch toggle" - no results foundJtyettis said:GG responds to some of the controller complaints;
http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=killzone2&thread.id=143456
Bananimus said:There's a noticeable region of analog stick movement that doesn't translate to any on-screen movement. Just outside this range, aiming is extremely slow, but visible. If there is any appreciable acceleration at this point, it's very difficult to notice. Aiming speed/acceleration quickly ramps up after leaving this dead zone. I've held the stick at the very edge of the dead zone for extended periods of time (10 to 15 seconds) with no visible movement. It's definitely there.
Zen said:Sluggish isn't the word they'd use. 'Deliberate' or 'weighty' is. You honestly think that they've spent to long on the game, played it over and over again, and the controls being how they are is a mistake? THey probably just weren't anticipating this level of complaints over their particular implementation.
Karma said:Their conscious design decision to add weight made it sluggish and not fun. Being realistic does not make it fun.
It is a video game not real life. How does that make it more fun?
I don't think it's anything like that to be honest. The control speed is just a bit different than other games, and if you speed it up in the settings it becomes even less different. There's also less aim assist present than in most console FPSs, which I actually like.OldJadedGamer said:This sounds A LOT like the defense of not having a retry option in Burnout Paradise... before the retry option was added. Just because they think something is good from a design perspective, and it was played over and over again doesn't mean that a good majority of people won't like it and they could change it later... again, case in point Burnouts retry option.
Looking into the issue I stumbled across an old Eurogamer article on the PS3 port of F.E.A.R. (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/fear-first-impressions).Trailblazer said:You due realize that the duel shock 3's dead zone is actually smaller then the 360 controller don't you ? The DS2 dead zone was Horrendous this is just not the case on teh Sixaixs/DS3.
I'll have to fire up Resistance tonight to see if I can tell what they did. I don't remember having problems fine-tuning my aim in that game (I realize they're very different games, but it's still worth investigating).Eurogamer F.E.A.R. Impressions said:...the game also highlights the dead zone problem of the PS3 pad - which is far less noticeable on the Sixaxis than it was on the Dual Shock 2, but continues to pose a slight problem when manoeuvring in FPS games, often forcing the user to over-compensate and hence overshoot their target. It's something which developers can overcome with a bit of tweaking (as demonstrated by games such as Resistance: Fall of Man)...
Bananimus said:Looking into the issue I stumbled across an old Eurogamer article on the PS3 port of F.E.A.R. (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/fear-first-impressions).
I'll have to fire up Resistance tonight to see if I can tell what they did. I don't remember having problems fine-tuning my aim in that game (I realize they're very different games, but it's still worth investigating).
The problem isn't people that don't like the controls, it's the folks who say the controls are "bad". Burnout Paradise was not fixed by the option, just changed. I suppose it's good that more people can enjoy it that way, but I'm always extremely wary about focus-testing for artistic products. It's not a requirement that everybody love everything; I'd hate for idiosyncrasy and strange approaches to die out. For example, I find the control design in Robot Alchemic Drive very frustrating. . .and I wouldn't change it for anything.OldJadedGamer said:This sounds A LOT like the defense of not having a retry option in Burnout Paradise... before the retry option was added. Just because they think something is good from a design perspective, and it was played over and over again doesn't mean that a good majority of people won't like it and they could change it later... again, case in point Burnouts retry option.
domokunrox said:why are we having this dead zone discussion?
If it really was a big issue, why doesn't everyone just request that console shooters now support KB+M and be done with it?
Its a ridiculous way to nit pick at this game.
Tutomos said:Do people want fun or immersion.
Well said bud.Silverthorn said:Well, when you have a game this well made all that's left for some people is nitpicking.
Then again, we have a lot of hardcore gamers around here and "nitpicking" can also be seen as some constructive feedback to the developers. If done within reason.
I suspect there are also some people that just enjoy nitpicking and being overly negative and are just looking for any perceived "weakness" to jump on.
Also KB+M is impractical when sitting on your comfy couch in the living room. It's all a matter of learning and getting use to something perceived as "different" for some people that have been playing the same type of game forever.
Change can be good people. Embrace it and see where it leads you.
Lince said:I'd like to see what you've seen
Tutomos said:Do people want fun or immersion.
Vustadumas said:I'm not knocking Killzone, it looks great, but we've been spoiled this gen by awesome looking visuals.
MGS4
Uncharted
Gears
LBP
CoD4
It's just a demo though, so I'm not writing off the entire game. I'm sure there will be some incredible things to see through out. I'm going to keep playing the demo and see if I can get my head wrapped around the controls :/
Karma said:Their conscious design decision to add weight made it sluggish and not fun. Being realistic does not make it fun.
It is a video game not real life. How does that make it more fun?
Silverthorn said:Well, when you have a game this well made all that's left for some people is nitpicking.
Then again, we have a lot of hardcore gamers around here and "nitpicking" can also be seen as some constructive feedback to the developers. If done within reason.
I suspect there are also some people that just enjoy nitpicking and being overly negative and are just looking for any perceived "weakness" to jump on.
Also KB+M is impractical when sitting on your comfy couch in the living room. It's all a matter of learning and getting use to something perceived as "different" for some people that have been playing the same type of game forever.
Change can be good people. Embrace it and see where it leads you.
Rapping Granny said:How many times have you played it?
Vustadumas said:Just a couple times. My first impression was not good :/ So my roommate ran through it, and he had the same feeling. I gave it another go, but wrestled with the controls to much, so I decided to give it rest for the night.
I'll fire it back up this weekend and take my time with it.
AranhaHunter said:While that's true, giving the option to people is never a bad thing. Of course when playing online they would have to make sure the input was a controller otherwise people with KB+M would have an unfair advantage, but for SP campaign they should give folks the option, same goes for other FPS and Strategy games IMO.
Haunted said:Ctrl+F: "crouch toggle" - no results found
The accelerated aiming is fine, but please implement crouch toggle, guys. It's a no-brainer with the way your cover system is designed.
To get one thing out of the way, it isn't realistic. In real life its obviously far faster to turn than it is in Killzone.Karma said:Their conscious design decision to add weight made it sluggish and not fun. Being realistic does not make it fun.
It is a video game not real life. How does that make it more fun?
THIS. And I love the cover mechanics and the momentum / speed / inertia / movement. I love the whole package, I just felt like I was constantly uncomfortable with the controller.AgentOtaku said::lol I was thinking the exact same thing
As I said, I don't even use the much lauded cover system because it's just too freaking uncomfortable to execute (>__<)
GodofWine said:Maybe this should be the first ever FP'S', First Person Simulation...eh? eh? GG call me, we'll discuss the rights for this to be used in commercials :lol
(after playing the demo like 10 times and going back to COD WaW, COD felt so 'detached' and fake (bad word I know)...now don't jump on me if you love COD, I do to, but the different feeling they have is way noticeable.)
Depends on how you look at it. Faster to turn your head? Yes. Faster to turn your entire body and aim in that specific direction? Maybe not.BobsRevenge said:To get one thing out of the way, it isn't realistic. In real life its obviously far faster to turn than it is in Killzone.
Haunted said:Ctrl+F: "crouch toggle" - no results found
The accelerated aiming is fine, but please implement crouch toggle, guys. It's a no-brainer with the way your cover system is designed.
Well, I'm still using it all the time just because it's so much fun and well-implemented, even if it's uncomfortable without toggle. Such a basic oversight (which lots and lots of people have remarked already) is just mind-boggling, though.AgentOtaku said::lol I was thinking the exact same thing
As I said, I don't even use the much lauded cover system because it's just too freaking uncomfortable to execute (>__<)