Syn Marnotrawny
Banned
inteligent people play strategies, not walking sims with piss-poor anime story. Those cringy dialogs are the worst. Was it Kojima writing those? Because they sound like written by someone who doesn't know english.
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Kojima: Death Stranding Had Stronger Criticism in the US, Possibly Because It Flies Above Shooters
- Thread starter thelastword
- Start date
Ryu Kaiba
Member
Wish people would stop posting all these "Tips for playing Death Stranding" or "What you should know before playing Death Stranding videos" Figuring it out for yourself is one of the best parts of the game.
Some people just want everything spelled out for them then they go into the game expecting everything that happens and knowing what to do and of course come out empty.
Some people just want everything spelled out for them then they go into the game expecting everything that happens and knowing what to do and of course come out empty.
rofif
Banned
Really? Its city skyline of walking sim. There is so much engaging mechanics and micro management.
And the story is amazing. The writing is great for the most part aside from chiral artist cringe quest
Ryu Kaiba
Member
Ever hung around with one of those shallow extrovert types where the moment things start to get quiet they shove their head in their phone, in snapchat, in a weird way like they are afraid to be left with their own thoughts. That's what Death Stranding is to those people, its alone time. It doesn't distract them from their own mind so their reaction has been more than a calm dismissal. It's Anger. They want it dashed off the face of the earth they want everyone else to hate it with them and want no other games like it to come into existence because they can't handle isolation.
Roni
Gold Member
When talking about populations, statistics are stronger than single points of data.
Kojima's not saying the US as a whole only appreciates shooters. He's saying there are less people in the US population that can appreciate something that breaks away from shooters.
So you're not evidence he's wrong. You're just part of the evidence he's right.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
...
Farawayfromhell
Member
Grazie Hideo.
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deriks
4-Time GIF/Meme God
It's not a "difficult game to understand", actually, it's very simple and the problem is basically that. It's too simple and look like something half baked. The story is really great, but wandering for half an hour from place A to B with not much to do outside avoiding rocks, some yellow guys and some flying guys is shallow
I'm 12 hours in and I think is a nice game. Can't recomend to everyone thou
Also, everyone complained to the long ass cutscenes in MGS4, and with this game it has even longer cutscenes... Why, Kojima? Why?
I'm 12 hours in and I think is a nice game. Can't recomend to everyone thou
Also, everyone complained to the long ass cutscenes in MGS4, and with this game it has even longer cutscenes... Why, Kojima? Why?
I wouldn't say that Americans can't understand the game, it's more like they have other tastes and that's cool, no need to use that as a shield for some poor reviews the game received.
One thing is depressing though: we all talk about how Metacritic is not important, how score is not the only thing that matters and then the guy that many call "genius" behave like the worst of fanboys, with this childlike attitude that if someone doesn't like his game he is stupid, even generalizing and insulting an entire country.
One thing is depressing though: we all talk about how Metacritic is not important, how score is not the only thing that matters and then the guy that many call "genius" behave like the worst of fanboys, with this childlike attitude that if someone doesn't like his game he is stupid, even generalizing and insulting an entire country.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
Thank god this game is much, much more than that.
But I guess you would have to play it yourself and not only follow the negative reviews blindly to know that.
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thelastword
Banned
I don't think he said Americans can't understand it, he said they prefer other genres...….There's nothing wrong with embracing what you prefer, it's who you are, embrace it......Don't feel offended because other nations generally prefer other types of games.....I think this whole "I'm offended , Kojima dissed my country" are people thinking that their tastes are somewhat lower on some prestige scale, so they strike back.......Your taste in games is yours, embrace it and forget about the perceived class system relative to taste.......It's all perception....
I will say this though, I love some action flicks. I love American films, but I have a very fond appreciation to asian cinema and European films......Some of the most though provoking films I've seen with stories that don't seem samey have been from international films, they are not afraid to tackle any subject and what is expressed is not as curtailed, they also don't insult your intelligence so much and give you the benefit of a doubt to try and piece things together and even think a bit and rationalize things in your mind after the film is done...……..There's no saying that these films are better or more entertaining than your typical Dwayne Johnson movie...….I'm just saying I love variety and that these films are not as pop-Cornish and predictable..….I'm simply ecstatic that other types of films exist...…...Yet I dig them all, variety is the spice of life....
FranXico
Member
I didn't buy or play the game yet. Maybe soon, maybe I wait for PC. Didn't decide yet.
But even I know that there's a lot more to the game than pushing the left stick forward.
Far from me to try to understand the mindset of a rabid fanboy who wishes for a game on a competing platform to fail, though.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
Well, a lot of people enjoy it.
ResilientBanana
Member
Minecraft comes to mind. It’s pretty tedious in every aspect. You can die of hunger, get attacked by Zombies at night, have to literally make everything while starting with nothing, But from how it sounds, Minecraft seems more fulfilling and more fun than Death Stranding. Tedious can be fun.
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junguler
Banned
yes, i agree but not the majority it seems.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
How do you determine that? Do we have worldwide polls?
According to Metacritic, the majority of reviews are positive. And even if some mentioned the "Gameplay loop", they were caught by it, played it through and loved it.
Sadly it's impossible to say what the people think - how can we check, who's really honest about his experience and who's lying in order to strengthen his (positive or negative) opinion on the game or Kojima?
Both sides showed so many extremes in this discussion, there's no way to tell what the majority thinks.
Ryu Kaiba
Member
Kojima on Death Stranding: "I'm very prone to loneliness, I think there are similar people around the world, especially gamers. Even though they're having fun with others outside, when they're alone playing video games in their living room they don't feel like they fit into society or their community. So when people play this game, they realise people like them exist all over the world. Knowing that even though I'm lonely there are other people like me. Makes you feel at ease. That's what I want people to feel when they play this game."
junguler
Banned
i was basing that comment on what i've seen and read from people reactions, i agree we don't know either way. but you have to agree that this game is a diving game and not a game that everyone can get behind and enjoy.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
Sure, I totally agree. And even while playing and loving it, I understand how people can't enjoy it at the same time.
But you also have to agree, that your previous "it's a failure of the game designer if people didn't enjoy what he made for them" comment isn't that fitting, because:
- Many Kojima fans (let's be honest, this is the audience, this game never was meant to please the mainstream) seem to like the game,
- If every developer wants to please everyone, we would live in a pretty boring entertainment world. This also counts for movies, music, books, etc.
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thelastword
Banned
Unhhh, you mean "dude bro", "mountain dew chugging", "do you lift"...…..machismo filled gamers?....
Well if the majority of the reviewing audience gets it and the majority of the playing audience gets it.....I think he has done his job...…..So yes, most people are enjoying what he made for them.....Just that not all people will gravitate towards all games...…..There are many persons who don't play COD or GTA......
Silent Duck
Member
After spending some more time with it, I did experience some fun in Death Stumbling.
The story, however, is still utter shit.
The story, however, is still utter shit.
brian0057
Banned
"To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Death Stranding. The themes are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of human psychology most of the themes will go over a typical player’s head. There’s also Sam's pessimistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterization- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Nietzche literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these themes, to reilase that they’re not just prescient- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Death Stranding truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the subtlety in Sam’s existential catchphrase “Sponsored by Monster Energy” which itself is a cryptic reference to Kojima's epic connections. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Hideo Kojima’s genius wit unfolds itself on their screens. What fools.. how I pity them."
- Rick and Mor... I mean, Death Stranding fans, probably.
- Rick and Mor... I mean, Death Stranding fans, probably.
Roni
Gold Member
You spoke few words indeed, but nonetheless made yourself a huge fool for it. Congrats!
That word/shame ratio is not something easy to achieve!
And how should that be of any relevance for those of us who do, though?
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BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
I am always cautious with how I assess Kojima statements. They all have to be translated, and I am told by Japanese speakers that he is very eloquent and eccentric in the way that he discusses things, which makes translating him to English a little more challenging sometimes.
That said, if this is accurate, he's not entirely wrong. While US gamers are far from monolithic (a gigantic country with multitudes of cultures), the mainstream gaming press certainly is in ways. One can almost expect them to react to the same product in the same way most of the time, and games that stray from common conventions are often criticized for it.
That said, if this is accurate, he's not entirely wrong. While US gamers are far from monolithic (a gigantic country with multitudes of cultures), the mainstream gaming press certainly is in ways. One can almost expect them to react to the same product in the same way most of the time, and games that stray from common conventions are often criticized for it.
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eastwood333
Banned
Maybe people expected more than a boreing walking simulator. Just maybe.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
It is more than than a "boreing" (sic) walking simulator, a lot more.
eastwood333
Banned
Explain what was foolish in what he said. Seems like good ol' common sense by stateing the obvious.
Roni
Gold Member
You should pick up a book about common sense some time.
Hinedorf
Banned
What Kojima is saying is basically the same thing Scorsese and Coppola said about super hero movies.
Kojima makes very thoughtful and artistic projects. He probably thinks the people who want to digest another FPS retread are idiots with buckets on their heads
I absolutely agree with him, Death Stranding does fly significantly higher in scope than any FPS game has ever tried to be and exactly as he has said this game is about connecting people not lighting them up with an assault rifle.
Kojima makes very thoughtful and artistic projects. He probably thinks the people who want to digest another FPS retread are idiots with buckets on their heads
I absolutely agree with him, Death Stranding does fly significantly higher in scope than any FPS game has ever tried to be and exactly as he has said this game is about connecting people not lighting them up with an assault rifle.
eastwood333
Banned
It has more,but a great portion of the game has you litterally walking for dozens of hours in a bland,samey world delivering packages to holograms with crates stacted 10 feet on your shoulder tapping L2/R2 to balance while avoiding tripping on rocks. Yes,theres a wacky story. Yes,there are ladders,vehicles. Yes,there is the rare combat that is laughably easy and repetitive. Yes,there is some base building. Overall, a dull,boring game full of fetch quests worse than the average free to play mmo.
This is coming from a huge MGS fan.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Oh the irony.
#Phonepunk#
Banned
most game journalists are idiots. i can count the textural analysis performed on MGSV on less than one hand, because it is zero, because not a single one of them discussed any of it past "Konami sucks and killed the game"
most US gamers are idiots as well, the amount of time I wasted trying to convince other US gamers off Snake's villainy was insane. "He has a nuke!" "The US had nukes and we were the good guys" "He tortures people!" "The US tortures people are we are good guys" etc. etc.
I don't think people really want to think about what their games are telling them. if you try talking about the story, it's just endless bitching over the writing quality. which ultimately isn't about the game itself, it's just another internet dick measuring contest, you telling the world about your amazing standards for storytelling. LOL it's hilarious. maybe in like 10-15 years people will tire of flame wars and sit down and look at these things from a critical perspective.
main strike against DS is the fact that this game is about BRINGING AMERICAN TOGETHER, a concept so politically verboten these days that you can be called a Nazi for not thinking half the population should be killed off. amazing that it takes someone from another country to even come up with this concept.
we don't deserve him tbh.
most US gamers are idiots as well, the amount of time I wasted trying to convince other US gamers off Snake's villainy was insane. "He has a nuke!" "The US had nukes and we were the good guys" "He tortures people!" "The US tortures people are we are good guys" etc. etc.
I don't think people really want to think about what their games are telling them. if you try talking about the story, it's just endless bitching over the writing quality. which ultimately isn't about the game itself, it's just another internet dick measuring contest, you telling the world about your amazing standards for storytelling. LOL it's hilarious. maybe in like 10-15 years people will tire of flame wars and sit down and look at these things from a critical perspective.
main strike against DS is the fact that this game is about BRINGING AMERICAN TOGETHER, a concept so politically verboten these days that you can be called a Nazi for not thinking half the population should be killed off. amazing that it takes someone from another country to even come up with this concept.
we don't deserve him tbh.
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eastwood333
Banned
You need to read a book to know what common sense is? You are a true genius,my man.
Roni
Gold Member
No, not to know what it is. But to know what it isn't.
But nice attempt at deflection there.
eastwood333
Banned
eastwood333
Banned
No deflection. Your statement makes zero sense,nor did you explain why the one users statement was foolish.
eastwood333
Banned
Walking Sims have been around for years. Dull,boring,repitive fetch quest have been around for decades. Base building has been around for years.I'm excited that this man is in the industry and creating original works like this. We need more games like this not less, even if not every game is for everyone.
DarkBatman
SBI’s Employee of the Year
Nothing in DS is that easy. Just you mentioning "base building" cleary shows you didn't do enough digging into the matter to participate in this discussion.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
This thread is proving him right.
I am absolutely baffled by the reviewers. everyone pretended as if its a tedious, excruciatingly punishing and bizarre game that many will reject out of frustration, but its as gamey as you can get. it's fun, its got combat, it got stealth, its walking is more engaging than zelda botw, uncharted 4 and journey combined. there are dozens of gameplay systems in place at any given point. the social aspect is the most innovative feature in a game since Demon Souls ten years ago.
It's perfectly ok to dislike a game. But the way these journalists talked about the game is embarrassing. fucking jaded cynical bastards. go play more gears 5 and cod reboots. same shit, different coat of paint.
i have had issues with journalists all gen. Metal Gear Survive, Destiny, Andromeda, Days Gone, AC Unity, The Last Guardian, Detroit. all fantastic games. most of them unique. all of them fun. but the critics love to hate play certain games. they love to jump on the bandwagon. andromeda and destiny had issues, but anyone who played those games instantly knew the combat was better than 99% of the games. in the case of andromeda, the class ME story and choice loop was there too. but nope, lets jump on the bandwagon and hate the game.
i think thats exactly what happened here. game obviously didnt click with critics. thats ok. but they knew there was something in the game. the element of fun that made Destiny so addictive. the heart that made The Last Guardian an instant classic. they all wanted to rate it low but simply couldnt because the game is a great game so they went on twitter to shit on the game, they went on podcasts to berate kojima, and they littered their reviews with qualifiers making mountain out of molehills. they poisoned the well as far as i am concerned. i seriously went in expecting a bullshit game that hates me. what i got was a fantastic game that keeps getting better every hour.
I am absolutely baffled by the reviewers. everyone pretended as if its a tedious, excruciatingly punishing and bizarre game that many will reject out of frustration, but its as gamey as you can get. it's fun, its got combat, it got stealth, its walking is more engaging than zelda botw, uncharted 4 and journey combined. there are dozens of gameplay systems in place at any given point. the social aspect is the most innovative feature in a game since Demon Souls ten years ago.
It's perfectly ok to dislike a game. But the way these journalists talked about the game is embarrassing. fucking jaded cynical bastards. go play more gears 5 and cod reboots. same shit, different coat of paint.
i have had issues with journalists all gen. Metal Gear Survive, Destiny, Andromeda, Days Gone, AC Unity, The Last Guardian, Detroit. all fantastic games. most of them unique. all of them fun. but the critics love to hate play certain games. they love to jump on the bandwagon. andromeda and destiny had issues, but anyone who played those games instantly knew the combat was better than 99% of the games. in the case of andromeda, the class ME story and choice loop was there too. but nope, lets jump on the bandwagon and hate the game.
i think thats exactly what happened here. game obviously didnt click with critics. thats ok. but they knew there was something in the game. the element of fun that made Destiny so addictive. the heart that made The Last Guardian an instant classic. they all wanted to rate it low but simply couldnt because the game is a great game so they went on twitter to shit on the game, they went on podcasts to berate kojima, and they littered their reviews with qualifiers making mountain out of molehills. they poisoned the well as far as i am concerned. i seriously went in expecting a bullshit game that hates me. what i got was a fantastic game that keeps getting better every hour.
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