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Kojima was too expensive apparently

Omega

Banned
Sep 9, 2009
15,170
0
0
New York
Why is this even news lol

Why else did anyone think they let go of one of the most renowned developers ever for? They picked his name out of a hat and that's how they came to the decision?
 

Coffee Dog

Banned
Aug 23, 2012
14,437
1
0
ITT: Gaffers unable to accept that a BUSINESS made a FINANCIAL decision because f-... fu-... fuck Konami right, guys?

Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
Well yeah, that's the problem. Everyone is shipping "product" nowadays.

Creative voices being run out of an artistic industry in the name of profit isn't something that should ever be celebrated.
 

Krappadizzle

Member
Oct 4, 2011
12,375
809
895
It sucks to see that franchise he built essentially being taken out of his hands, but there's more to a game than just creating it, especially at the AAA level. He should have learned by now and if he hadn't been showing the qualities in a director that Konami liked they should have guided him into that direction. O well, I am personally happy to know that the franchise will be in new hands. Kojima just doesn't do it for me anymore like he did in the late 90's- early 00's.
 

deim0s

Member
Apr 25, 2009
4,376
0
0
In a few weeks time we'll know what happens... a lot of shit and expectations is in his "last" game with Konami.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Jun 7, 2004
85,527
1
0
Silent Hills was probably the breaking point for this given that he'd gone out and hired Reedus and Del Toro for the game, neither of which were really needed for the project, and bo the which would add quite a bit to the budget. Silent Hill just isn't a big franchise, so tacking on Hollywood talent that's going to blowup the budget probably set Konami off.
 

vazel

Member
Aug 9, 2005
7,543
2
1,150
He may have been expensive but he's Konami's biggest asset. Konami should have tried to make more money off Kojima by having him create new IPs that they can exploit for many years with sequels/spinoffs helmed by other people.
 

Team Klimt

Member
Mar 26, 2007
1,298
0
0
twitter.com
Stuff not being used happens ALL THE TIME btw.
Yeah, but million-dollar expendatures that come up with zero value tend to make failing companies a bit upset. People seem to be missing the big point here - Konami has no money. They simply can't afford this production. If it doesn't sell enough to be profitable they are probably toast.
 

Mature

Member
Jul 5, 2011
6,187
0
0
This doesn't explain why they decided to erase his existence within the company overnight.
 

Ryan_MSF

Member
Dec 31, 2014
1,302
0
260
spoiled little brat syndrome .
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear


It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.

Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.

All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
 

hal9001

Banned
Mar 19, 2013
3,674
0
0
ITT: Gaffers unable to accept that a BUSINESS made a FINANCIAL decision because f-... fu-... fuck Konami right, guys?

Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
Why do you care so much about publishers profits? You're a gamer first of all. Kojima was sacked because he was trying to stand up for you and all us gamers. That's why fuck Konami.
 
Jul 22, 2007
20,049
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That's called making an investment. If you have a guy in a company that costs a ton to maintain, is a general pain in the ass, but in the end he ends up bringing huge profits, the company should be more than happy to have him/her. Most companies have people like that as they are usually the ones that have all the great ideas.

MGSV is going to sell a shit ton of copies and will absolutely recover the investment. So I call bullshit, Konami execs cannot be that stupid to let go a guy like that because "he is expensive".
what was the last metal gear game to sell a shit ton of copies though? Sure, they sell, but at some point the lines in the graphs start crossing and it's a lot of headaches for a not-very-large return.

Konami is trying to get out of the AAA business and become much smaller in the games department. Even if Kojima brought them a great profit once every 3-4 years, having to sit around and eat red ink for 3-4 years while he makes his games instead of just throwing dozens of smaller games out there and possibly making more money isnt a good look for business minded folks
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,006
0
0
Illinois
Silent Hills was probably the breaking point for this given that he'd gone out and hired Reedus and Del Toro for the game, neither of which were really needed for the project, and bo the which would add quite a bit to the budget. Silent Hill just isn't a big franchise, so tacking on Hollywood talent that's going to blowup the budget probably set Konami off.
The thing about Silent Hills is that it even had non gamers very interested in it. Just based on P.T. alone it looked like a big comeback for that franchise and it looked like Kojima was about to give it the proper attention it deserved.
 

EmCeeGramr

Member
Jun 25, 2005
38,456
0
0
So we've been joking about how soon Kojima's Kickstarter will appear, but I'm suddenly realizing that that may be a recipe for disaster.
 

BadWolf

Member
Apr 15, 2010
26,126
4
0
Why do you care so much about publishers profits? You're a gamer first of all. Kojima was sacked because he was trying to stand up for you and all us gamers. That's why fuck Konami.
Exactly.

So we've been joking about how soon Kojima's Kickstarter will appear, but I'm suddenly realizing that that may be a recipe for disaster.
I wouldn't expect him to do one either way, he will most likely find his own funding ala Platinum Games, Mikami etc. instead of getting money out of fans.

Still expecting him to partner with Sony tbh.
 

Xater

Member
Jul 28, 2007
48,006
0
0
What the hell?

We had how many mgs? Lots.

Obviously it wasn't working out businesswise anymore with how high budgets are then it makes sense.

Then if you aren't mixing well within the company then yes they have to get rid of you. They kept him for a pretty long time tho.

People have no clue how corporations work?
Get off my back.

We know Konami wants to do mobile and leave boxed games behind. If that's the direction you are going taking on productions like MGS with an auteur is of course not going to work out. Japanese budgets are generally lower than the western counterparts as well, so Konami just finally decided to get tighten the belt. I doubt the MGS5 budget would even eclipse a lot of what gets produced in the west.
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
0
0
Well yeah, that's the problem. Everyone is shipping "product" nowadays.

Creative voices being run out of an artistic industry in the name of profit isn't something that should ever be celebrated for.
That's business though. Artistic vision is all fine and good, but people have to make a living. It's not just the Konami bigwigs either. The people who stand to lose the most from this are the ordinary salarymen who are completely expendable to companies.

And I disagree with the notion that artistic vision means you can't manage a budget. I mean, a company like Nintendo has been dealing out a ton of interesting, high quality games with new and unique mechanics while selling much less in terms of copies, and still makes a profit. I feel like at some point perfectionism is less about the quality you deliver to consumers and more about stroking your own ego
 

fedexpeon

Banned
Nov 23, 2013
5,141
0
0
Cool, but that's irrelevant if it cost too much to develop. It's also irrelevant if they make too small of a profit that they could've made several times more selling something else
He also creates Fox Engine and addition updates on it so Konami can make new games on the engine more efficiently.
So in the end, Kojima isn't just about MGS.
Konami will profit a lot from Kojima Fox Engine.
 

mnannola

Member
Oct 3, 2009
3,513
0
0
So their relationship is basically the same as a troubled marriage.

Konami (KO): Hey Kojima how's it going?

Kojima (KJ): Pretty damn good! I think we going to need to redo the foliage on the oak tree though, it's looking pretty ordinary.

KO: Didn't we redo that 3 times already?

KJ: We did, but it's still a little lacking. One more time should really tighten it up.

KO: I think we are going to have to stop you on that one, it's just too much work for a tree.

KJ: Stop me? I thought you trusted me to make the best MGS ever? Am I not the creative director on this?

KO: You are, there are just limits. We can't keep writing you a blank check for all your crazy ideas. Who gives a fuck about a tree!?

KJ: It's not just the god damn tree! How many times do I have to tell you that? Why don't we just ship the piece of shit now if you don't care about anything? Actually instead how about you just shove it up your ass?

KO: That's it, we are done! Pack your shit up and get out of here! I don't ever want to see your name again.
 

Dick Justice

Banned
Jan 1, 2012
10,095
0
0
ITT: Gaffers unable to accept that a BUSINESS made a FINANCIAL decision because f-... fu-... fuck Konami right, guys?

Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
I'm guessing that most people posting here are gamers, not businessmen with a stake in the company. Maybe that's the way it is with Konami, that's not our concern. And we don't need some condescending shit like yourself bitching about others for not feeling overly concerned for the publisher's bottom line.
 

bananafactory

Banned
Nov 6, 2013
26,336
1
0
I love Kojima and hate how this all unfolded but Konami is a business and has a responsibility to make money and also to spend responsibility. Assuming everything mentioned there is true, very few companies could let that stuff continue, and I don't blame them for being upset about it.
 

plutoknight

Member
Dec 20, 2012
2,326
0
0
So we've been joking about how soon Kojima's Kickstarter will appear, but I'm suddenly realizing that that may be a recipe for disaster.
"Did you rike my budget proposal?!"

I love Kojima, and I assumed he was just like the guy from Jurassic Park, sparing no expense. I'm glad he did that. But, the facts are, it's hard to sustain AAA-level development and be an artist at this point in the gaming industry.

What IS silly though is that I'm sure a lot of MGS' budget went to the Fox Engine, and Engine Development is a large financial hurdle -- with that mostly cleared, why wouldn't you keep the guys around who designed it, and use the engine as internal middleware for all future projects? (But I guess, outside of MT Framework, that hasn't really worked out for JP companies well)...
 
Apr 28, 2014
3,301
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USA
1. Reduce Kojima's salary for each wasteful event.
2. Don't remove his name from the game.
3. Actually care about the fans (P.T.).

Simple really.
 
Jul 22, 2007
20,049
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So we've been joking about how soon Kojima's Kickstarter will appear, but I'm suddenly realizing that that may be a recipe for disaster.
people whined about Shenmue's KS not being enough for the scope of game that it requires.

Yeah, good luck convincing Kojima to make a game in a timely fashion and on a smaller scale/budget, at least if that's what people want out of a Kojima game.

Who knows, though. Maybe he'll try to make smaller projects, like the botkai stuff. Or he'll finally make that game where if you die, the disc erases itself and you have to go back to the store to get another disc
 

thomasmahler

Member
May 11, 2010
3,313
0
0
www.oriblindforest.com
This doesn't really change anything... he's the director, he has to have the creative freedom and it's expected of him to know where to take things. Sure it sucks if he's going over budget, but fucking hell, if a person creates a series like Metal Gear Solid, which made huge amounts of money for Konami and by now is the only worthwhile franchise they have left that hasn't been left in the dust, he's probably still worth it. I'm very surprised to hear that Kojima didn't even ask for a larger cut of the profit his games made.

And yeah, sometimes you create work during development that just doesn't come together and then you ditch it, that's a natural part of the process. A painter puts down a couple of brushstrokes and if he doesn't like them, he paints over them. The same applies to everything art-related. How many pages does a writer write and then throws them away only to come up with something better. The trick is in keeping the process going, you keep doing it to get that idea that you've been looking for.

On Ori, I designed countless levels and decided they weren't good enough. Our composer also created quite a few tracks that weren't good enough for us, so they were re-made. It's all good and throw-away work is ALWAYS part of the creative process.

If a publisher doesn't understand that there's throw-away work, then they just don't get how the development process works. Disney used to throw out twice the amount of animation that'd actually go into their final films, simply because you HAVE TO fuck around with things a little in order to move things forward.

In the end, I always think that the only thing that matters is the final output - and business wise, the only thing that matters is what the games make, bottom-line. I just fancy a guess, but I'm thinking even with his budget-overruns, the MGS series probably still is very, very, very profitable for Konami. Ditching Kojima, who's been the director of their most lucrative series for almost 20 years is just not a good move.
 

Gunstar Ikari

Unconfirmed Member
Jan 21, 2013
5,566
0
0
Yeah, but million-dollar expendatures that come up with zero value tend to make failing companies a bit upset. People seem to be missing the big point here - Konami has no money. They simply can't afford this production. If it doesn't sell enough to be profitable they are probably toast.
Konami has plenty of money. They're just not willing to spend it on traditional games.

Gamers are pissed off at Konami because Konami doesn't need them anymore.
 

Xaero Testosterone

Formerly 'Xaero Gravity'
May 12, 2013
10,407
6,031
980
Canada Eh
The real reason for completely erasing him will probably turn out to be some racist remarks he was recorded saying that will come out during his sex tape trial.
 

benzy

Member
Sep 18, 2010
9,133
32
745
Silent Hills was probably the breaking point for this given that he'd gone out and hired Reedus and Del Toro for the game, neither of which were really needed for the project, and bo the which would add quite a bit to the budget. Silent Hill just isn't a big franchise, so tacking on Hollywood talent that's going to blowup the budget probably set Konami off.
Having Reedus and Del Toro attached would have been a huge marketing point that would draw in even more potential buyers though. We don't even know how expensive Del Toro's attachment would have been, he's good buddies with Kojima and seemingly wants to actually work with him artistically.
 

Kriken

Member
Dec 7, 2013
10,244
0
0
So we've been joking about how soon Kojima's Kickstarter will appear, but I'm suddenly realizing that that may be a recipe for disaster.
Metal gear Solid VI

First stretch goal: $15 million to make the game the length of Ground Zeroes
Stretch goal to make the game the size of TPP: You don't want to know
 

Edzi

Member
Nov 30, 2013
7,269
0
0
So we've been joking about how soon Kojima's Kickstarter will appear, but I'm suddenly realizing that that may be a recipe for disaster.
This is sort of what I'm thinking now too. Everyone kept talking about his next big project after this mess, but hearing this it sounds like Kojima probably won't be making anything without a massive company backing him and paying the bills.
 

BadWolf

Member
Apr 15, 2010
26,126
4
0
Yeah, but million-dollar expendatures that come up with zero value tend to make failing companies a bit upset. People seem to be missing the big point here - Konami has no money. They simply can't afford this production. If it doesn't sell enough to be profitable they are probably toast.
You do realize videogames aren't their main source of income right? They have plenty of money.
 

OléGunner

Member
May 4, 2014
6,149
0
0
I get Koji is an expensive creator for any pub to have, but when dude is raking in crazy money for your biggest franchise you gotta bite the bullet Konami.

Especially considering he doesn't even make bonuses on how well MGS games sell.
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
0
0
Why do you care so much about publishers profits? You're a gamer first of all. Kojima was sacked because he was trying to stand up for you and all us gamers. That's why fuck Konami.
Not like ordinary people suffer when a company is doing poorly, mirite. Who cares if one man's poor business decisions might lead to a bunch of people losing their jobs as a way of dealing with the costs. I mean, screw compassion for other human beings as long as we get an awesome game. I'm not even siding with Konami in particular in this case so much as saying that a business trying to make money isn't evil. Businesses making money is what drives the economy, and ultimately that can come back to other people as well.

It's super entitled to think businesses shouldn't care about making money so that you can have a product you like for entertainment. Real people can suffer from that. As is, companies like Konami are moving away from games because it hasn't been making as much money as it used to, and I honestly think part of that is because consumers like us often make demands that aren't really reasonable
 
Apr 6, 2007
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Damn. :( I kind of liked that even though his name isn't on the box but it's going to be in the game more than any other Metal Gear to spite Konami.
I was under the impression that the(non-imaginary-drama-related) most likely reason for Kojima to not have his name anywhere on the game is because he's negotiated for retaining its use after he leaves Konami and Konami doesn't want to use a name they no longer own in a game they're currently selling.
 

SilentRob

Member
May 27, 2015
2,876
0
0
"The main reason for the falling out, at least in her opinion..."

I don't know if this is newsworthy. She obviously didn't work on MGS V herself so the only knowledge she really has is that he didn't use a lot of her songs back in the day. Everything else simply seems to be her jumping to conclusions because of her past experiences (which happened over 10 years ago).

EDIT: Aaaaand we already got the first headlines quoting this interview: "Former Composer Rika Muranaka Reveals Why Kojima Is Leaving Konami After MGS V: The Phantom Pain" (not gonna link to it, don't want to encourage this type of journalism). And thus we already from one person's opinion to FACT. *sigh*