Kojima was too expensive apparently

omonimo

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Yeah, Kojima is really known for pursuing rock-solid framerates.
You missed my point. And MGS GZ fps it's rock solid by the way. Why Konami didn't asked to him to limit his budget? Or whatever else? I don't think Kojima it's that unreasonable if it means help the company. I don't believe that much to this excuse.
 

davitpr

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Sorry to say this but if Kojima still made a profit they wouldn't have fired him. I honestly think Metal Gear has jumped the shark and that's why Konami is done with Kojima. I'm kind of done with him too.
 

Sn4ke_911

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Bigger budget doesn't automatically means a better game for the fans. Kiefer Sutherland is much more expensive compared to David Hayter. I thought people hate that decision?
Says who? I wish people would stop saying this. Hayter said in an interview he tried to push Konami hard to pay him as much as possible, maybe that's why they axed him.
But i still think he's in the game, Team A.

Similar situation with the original voice actor of Zero. They said since Zero doesn't have that much lines in the game they don't wanna pay that much, it was not enough for Mr. Piddock and so they had to use someone else which i personally don't mind because that only quote he has in the E3 2015 trailer already sold me on the new Zero.
 

Broank

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Second hand recollection of a person who talked to a person that was purely speculating. People run with it for 26 pages. Crazy. lol
 
Aug 8, 2012
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Says who? Hayter said in an interview he tried to push Konami hard to pay him as much as possible, maybe that's why they axed him.
A voice actor and a main TV series actor are in drastically different realms of paygrade it's not even funny. If David Hayter was pushing to be paid even higher than Kiefer Sutherland's rates, the only way that makes sense would be that he actually didn't want the part any longer.
 

Sn4ke_911

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A voice actor and a main TV series actor are in drastically different realms of paygrade it's not even funny. If David Hayter was pushing to be paid even higher than Kiefer Sutherland's rates, the only way that makes sense would be that he actually didn't want the part any longer.
Yeah no, you could tell after the world and he found out he's not Big Boss anymore he was pretty upset about it (he told Kojima to fuck himself) he wanted this role really badly, he always said he would have done it and he would still do it if they come to him for the next Metal Gear game.

Second hand recollection of a person who talked to a person that was purely speculating. People run with it for 26 pages. Crazy. lol
Yeah i hate this thread lol.
 

Trojan X

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Hmm... Doesn't sound like the reason he was fired though. More like an excuse or partial factor, especially considering the massive game sales. I will take this info as complete hundrum. 100% definitely sure that we will definitely never know the real reason why he was let go and removed from everything and anything in relation to Konami.
 
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Yeah no, you could tell after the world and he found out he's not Big Boss anymore he was pretty upset about it (he told Kojima to fuck himself) he wanted this role really badly, he always said he would have done it and he would still do it if they come to him for the next Metal Gear game.
That is my point. There's no way David Hayter was pushing to actually be paid higher than the rates Kiefer Sutherland is going for.
 

Sn4ke_911

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That is my point. There's no way David Hayter was pushing to actually be paid higher than the rates Kiefer Sutherland is going for.
I'm on phone now but he said in that interview something like he wanted to get paid like a real actor or something like that... i can look it up in a few.

Edit:

Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMHPbo3UK1Y

Seriously after watching this interview i wouldn't be one bit surprised if Hayter asked for more money than Sutherland did.

David Hayter: "I tried to push the limits of what they would pay a videogame actor."
 

Screaming Meat

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Similar situation with the original voice actor of Zero. They said since Zero doesn't have that much lines in the game they don't wanna pay that much, it was not enough for Mr. Piddock and so they had to use someone else which i personally don't mind because that only quote he has in the E3 2015 trailer already sold me on the new Zero.
Since we're correcting false rumours... ;)

Whilst what you said about Hayter is true, this bit isn't quite.

In the interview, Piddock said the reason Konami wouldn't meet what he considered the bare minimum fee, was because Zero wouldn't appear in TPP that much. Piddock was apparently baffled because, at the end of the day, it's voice work so technically he (the VA) wouldn't appear in it at all, so it shouldn't really affect his fee.

Nothing was said about how many lines he had.

That is my point. There's no way David Hayter was pushing to actually be paid higher than the rates Kiefer Sutherland is going for.
Hayter's fee went up with every appearance which, correct me if I'm wrong, is standard practice in a lot of acting? I'm no expert.

As I recall in one radio interview, Hayter said that it might in fact be cheaper for Konami at this point to hire Kiefer than it was to rehire him.
 
Mar 29, 2013
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Since we're correcting false rumours... ;)

Whilst what you said about Hayter is true, this bit isn't quite.

In the interview, Piddock said the reason Konami wouldn't meet what he considered the bare minimum fee, was because Zero wouldn't appear in TPP that much. Piddock was apparently baffled because, at the end of the day, it's voice work so technically he (the VA) wouldn't appear in it at all, so it shouldn't really affect his fee.

Nothing was said about how many lines he had.
I think S4nic was just trying to avoid spoilong how much of a presence he had in the game in terms of on-screen time, if I had to guess, since he has posted about it several times!

You're right though, that is what was said!

Aaahhhhh, i see! Ahahahahahaaaa.. ;_;
How sure am I that Hayter is in the game?

"PRETTY SHURRRRRRRE"
 

Sn4ke_911

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Since we're correcting false rumours... ;)

Whilst what you said about Hayter is true, this bit isn't quite.

In the interview, Piddock said the reason Konami wouldn't meet what he considered the bare minimum fee, was because Zero wouldn't appear in TPP that much. Piddock was apparently baffled because, at the end of the day, it's voice work so technically he (the VA) wouldn't appear in it at all, so it shouldn't really affect his fee.

Nothing was said about how many lines he had.
Isn't this basically the same? a character of a voice actor not appearing that much and not having many lines? Oo
 

Screaming Meat

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Isn't this basically the same? a character of a voice actor not appearing that much and not having many lines? Oo
No, he was referring to actual 'screen time' rather than, say,
cassette tapes
. That's why he was confused and not a little insulted. Something like:

"You want to pay me less for a certain amount of work because
my character is off-screen a lot?
But it's freakin' VoiceOver work, why would that matter?!"

...sort of thing. That's what I took away from it.
 

Lernaean

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I'm sitting here thinking I'm in a bizzaro world where someone think Assassin's Creed games are very well designed and Kojima is overrated.
Is it a place where World of Goo is considered a profound meditation on capitalism and Metal Gear Solid 2 is at most a "popcorn flick"? I think we must be stuck in the same place.
This thread man.

Also i still can't understand why MGS threads in GAF must have the same ol circus participants shitting on the game when in reality they don't give a shit about it.
If I don't care for a game i never step into its thread. Simple.
 
Aug 8, 2012
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I'm on phone now but he said in that interview something like he wanted to get paid like a real actor or something like that... i can look it up in a few.
I assume you mean "live action actor" rather than "real actor". Many voice actors are very talented and I agree that they deserve better, but still there's a big gulf between "being paid like a live action actor" and "being paid higher than Sutherland". Regardless of talent, star power to the general public is very, very expensive.

Hayter's fee went up with every appearance which, correct me if I'm wrong, is standard practice in a lot of acting? I'm no expert.

As I recall in one radio interview, Hayter said that it might in fact be cheaper for Konami at this point to hire Kiefer than it was to rehire him.
There is no hard and fast rule, but that is generally the case, yes.

And that's interesting. I wish there's some kind of a transcript.
 

Sn4ke_911

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I assume you mean "live action actor" rather than "real actor". Many voice actors are very talented and I agree that they deserve better, but still there's a big gulf between "being paid like a live action actor" and "being paid higher than Sutherland". Regardless of talent, star power to the general public is very, very expensive.
Watch this part:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMHPbo3UK1Y#t=47s

Interviewer: "I have a theory that they may had to pay more for you than they did for Kiefer."

Hayter: "I... I don't know... maybe"


The fact that he said "maybe" says a lot imo, because Hayter knows the movie industry, he was involved in a bunch of movies, for example he wrote X2, so he obviously knows what he's talking about.
 

valkyre

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So, in short, Kojima behaved like the dev gamers want, not the kind of corporate dev Konami needs, so they decided to take out his name from every game he had created?

Spot on! /s
 

Screaming Meat

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This thread man.

Also i still can't understand why MGS threads in GAF must have the same ol circus participants shitting on the game when in reality they don't give a shit about it.
If I don't care for a game i never step into its thread. Simple.
Metal Gear is a big target. It's to be expected. Hipster love for 'World of Goo' and it's simple but profound message regarding the knock-on affects on unabashed capitalism, isn't.

There is no hard and fast rule, but that is generally the case, yes.

And that's interesting. I wish there's some kind of a transcript.
The interview is on YouTube somewhere. It's a radio one from about a year after the news broke. If I get a moment I'll try and find it and post it.

Don't worry, Sn4ku; I reckon Bowie-Zero will have plenty of word-virus monologues :)
 

Game Guru

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That argument is fine but this thread is filled with armchair business analysts calling Konami morons for letting Kojima go. NeoGAF as a whole is often both unaware and indifferent to what actually sells well in gaming but often think they know better and espouse that catering to their niche tastes is the sure path to success.
I think Konami are morons to let Kojima go in the particular way they had done, which is pretty much trying to crap over his legacy at Konami. If it was a more cordial leaving of Kojima from Konami that respected Kojima's legacy, that would be okay even if we as gamers did not like it. Konami had every opportunity to either show respect to Kojima or explain the situation with Kojima better, but refused to do so.
 
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I keep reading the thread but still don't get it. Kojima is a dinosaur, coming from a different age, he was able to keep working as a director for the same series for more than twenty years. It had to come to a stop sometime, sooner than later, considering than Konami is a trainwreck right now.
It was a good run, but I'm not in the least surprised by this. He over-lived his usefulness.

The only thing that really bugs me is that this could have been the first MGS with some good DLC mission from KojiPro (think of the shadow moses act in IV). I would have loved to play a remake of the tanker mission, coming directly from the main team. Instead Konami will surely outsource development for some shitty cosmetic items and multiplayer maps.
 

Ratrat

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If he was just a lone artist who put all his money into making the best product for fans, even at a loss, that would be cool. Unfortunately it's not his money.
Either way, as an MGS fan, Thank You Kojima.
 
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For anyone interested, first off-screen MGSV shot from Kojima since the "Heading off" tweet months ago.



(MOTHER BASE DEMONSTRATION INCOMING!)

Looks like it will be narrated by Ocelot's Japanese voice actor!
 

VulpX

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For anyone interested, first off-screen MGSV shot from Kojima since the "Heading off" tweet months ago.



(MOTHER BASE DEMONSTRATION INCOMING!)

Looks like it will be narrated by Ocelot's Japanese voice actor!
You really are posting this pic in every MGSV topic you can find aren't you? :)
 

SomTervo

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I wouldn't even say that it's the best looking cross gen game(outside of cutscenes at least). And no it's not the first next gen game. There've been other games that've come out where the gameplay and world very clearly couldn't be handled on last gen consoles even if they were to simply reduce the super detailed graphics to a level comparable to last gen.
I don't want to revive this argument because you both laid it to rest, but here's my two pence from the fence:

I played Ground Zeroes on PS4 for tens of hours, then when I saw it on a friend's Xbox 360, I was floored. It seriously looked almost as good as the current-gen version, which is still a fantastic looking game on PS4. It's insane. Based on this, and assuming MGSV has a similar level of parity (which is very likely indeed), I'd say MGSV may well be the best looking cross-gen game just because of its cross-gen parity.

I've seen Isolation last-gen, and it didn't look that great, and I've seen Far Cry 4 last gen, and it looked really good but the frame-rate wasn't up to scratch. MGSV looks goddamn close across both. I assume in the full open world there will be more trade-offs we're not aware of, though.

Bigger budget doesn't automatically means a better game for the fans. Kiefer Sutherland is much more expensive compared to David Hayter. I thought people hate that decision?
A lot of people are okay with it (like me). A lot of people aren't.
 

SomTervo

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Hey Som :)

What if they did give that ultimatum? What if they gave it multiple times? What if he refused, feeling he had better things to spend money on? He was the goddamn Vice President of Konami for christ's sake. What Vice President doesn't own stock in their own company? Honestly, it's kind of insulting of him at that point not to. Of course, Konami is deserving of insult and has been for almost a decade. Maybe that's the whole point.
Hello pal!

If that's the case, then yep, Konami are likely quite justified in dropping him. As much as businesses are often headed by odious figures of questionable ethics, corporations as a whole are mainly run by usually quite sound people and run in pretty sound ways. Chances are there was a lot to the split and it was more of an agreement.

I don't think it's on to remove his name from lots of things and kill projects like Silent Hills. Although as someone in this thread mentioned, that was probably stipulated in his contract, not any political manoeuvre.
 

Crossing Eden

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I don't want to revive this argument because you both laid it to rest, but here's my two pence from the fence:

I played Ground Zeroes on PS4 for tens of hours, then when I saw it on a friend's Xbox 360, I was floored. It seriously looked almost as good as the current-gen version, which is still a fantastic looking game on PS4. It's insane. Based on this, and assuming MGSV has a similar level of parity (which is very likely indeed), I'd say MGSV may well be the best looking cross-gen game just because of its cross-gen parity.

I've seen Isolation last-gen, and it didn't look that great, and I've seen Far Cry 4 last gen, and it looked really good but the frame-rate wasn't up to scratch. MGSV looks goddamn close across both. I assume in the full open world there will be more trade-offs we're not aware of, though.



A lot of people are okay with it (like me). A lot of people aren't.
Only played the ps4 version of both so that's what I use as a metric for the visuals of those games as that's where they very clearly "used the power of next gen" for instead of going for 60fps.
 

SomTervo

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Only played the ps4 version of both so that's what I use as a metric for the visuals of those games as that's where they very clearly "used the power of next gen" for instead of going for 60fps.
Don't quite follow you here. Did you leave a word out by accident?

You said you 'don't think it's the best looking cross-generation game', and I said having played both generational versions of Ground Zeroes, the parity is insane, and looks like the best cross-gen game I've seen based on this parity alone. You say you only played the PS4 version so I don't think you can hold much water with your argument here. Check out a high-res video of Ground Zeroes on Xbox 360 if you can find one. It looks really, really close to the PS4 counterpart. I was amazed.

I also mentioned that, considering the vastly increased scale of the full Phantom Pain release, this parity may collapse. It could well be that the last-gen versions have lower draw distance, substantially lower res, more FPS issues. These problems barely existed in Ground Zeroes across the generations, but with TPP they might well be present. We can't know.

But if we're just talking about the fact that the game would look better if it was current-gen only, well you've got no argument from me. It'll be a brilliant looking game mainly for the realism (mainly via lighting), design and efficient, high IQ – but obviously it won't match current-gen-only games like Batman or Bloodborne.