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Kojima was too expensive apparently

SnowFlakeCake

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Nov 29, 2014
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His games aren't too my liking at all but I can appreciate him wanting the games he makes to be absolutely perfect. That said, it's ridiculous people here are saying fuck Konami and all that rubbish, they are in a business to make money. To have a composer come in, record countless songs and not use a single one is incredibly wasteful. I doubt the composer would have been cheap, like flushing money down the toilet.

High production values and a directors vision are lovely and all, but Konami is not the biggest tradition gaming publisher out there and they make most of their money outside consoles. There will probably be some publisher out there willing to fund his next project, if not his fans seem rabid enough that a $50 million kickstarter for his next project would be funded in a day.
 

Aaronrules380

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Feb 19, 2013
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Didn't his games make back the money they poured into it + whatever his cost was? If this is really a big deal why fire him now and not a long time ago like after 4?
We don't know. And it's possible that was true at first, but as he got more and more successful he got more freedom and emboldened by that his practical ability to make games on a reasonable budget declined. Perhaps it was a recent trend because of this, and if so they might have tried to get him onto a different deal, which he refused because he liked the freedom he had gained.
 
In Kojima's case though, his portfolio of games is way bigger. Shipping not just Metal Gear games but stuff like Zone of the Enders as well.

Ken only had what? Bioshock 1 and then a 7 year gap for Bioshock 2?
Ken was one of the founders of Irrational and shipped System Shock 2, Freedom Force, Tribes: Vengeance, Freedom Force vs the 3rd Reich, SWAT 4 + expansion pack, BioShock, and BioShock Infinite. They also did a couple of years of the XCOM FPS's development before handing it off to work on Infinite instead.

Before that he worked at Looking Glass.
 

crazyrabbits

Banned
Feb 11, 2013
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He also just pulled general Kojima-esque things, like have the music composer (I'm guessing Harry Greggson Williams?) make a bunch of songs, then he doesn't like them so he doesn't bother using them after they payed for them.
That happens all the time, for film and games alike. It's a drop in the larger scale of things. I get where she's coming from (as a composer, she would want that work to be heard), but I'm willing to bet the licensing costs for all the 80's songs are where more money was spent.

A (more or less) period-authentic, auteur-driven, AAA-project helmed by a guy who laughs when Konami says "delay this" was never going to be the norm.
 

Ridley327

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Feb 7, 2005
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Didn't his games make back the money they poured into it + whatever his cost was? If this is really a big deal why fire him now and not a long time ago like after 4?
It's just as simple as Konami's current direction being much more intolerant of that kind of development schedule than they were from 2005-2008. They didn't have the success of formerly ancillary ventures like gambling machines and fitness programs like they do now.
 

Coffee Dog

Banned
Aug 23, 2012
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Kojima was confused, thinking he was making art and not product, and got fired for it. Sounds about right.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
May 27, 2014
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Ken was one of the founders of Irrational and shipped System Shock 2, Freedom Force, Tribes: Vengeance, Freedom Force vs the 3rd Reich, SWAT 4 + expansion pack, BioShock, and BioShock Infinite.

Before that he worked at Looking Glass.
This reminds me of that "one-hit wonders" topic from a few weeks back lol
 

Sn4ke_911

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May 9, 2009
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fedexpeon

Banned
Nov 23, 2013
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I think it's pretty much guaranteed that the game would sell enough to earn back all the money spent on the game.

Erasing his name and his companies names from the box is still inexcusable though regardless of the reason why he was fired. It's just a petty move.
Seriously this.
If the profit margin always exceeds the budget like his other games then leave his name and studio on the game for this last game. Afterward, they can announce that Kojima is no longer with the company when his contact is up due to disagreement between salary and budget cost.
But instead, they said fuck you Kojima with no explanation.
 

Exile20

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Jun 7, 2013
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but when every single mgs game that he's directed has sold really well, is that such a big deal?
Do we know how much money they are actually making from each game?

Ye they sell well but if you are extremely over budge them profits can be slim.
 

jwhit28

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Feb 27, 2010
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I could believe this if Kojima was the only problem. As is though MGS is just another in a long list of franchises deemed not worth it anymore by Konami and Kojima is just another creator being let go.
 

Jimmyfenix

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Oct 27, 2013
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Yeah, it's even more strange when his name pops up before and after every mission.
In one of the KindaFunnyGames videos about kojima/konami Greg miller said that the Konami PR told him that stuff might be removed from the final game.
 

angelic

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Apr 18, 2013
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In Kojima's case though, his portfolio of games is way bigger. Shipping not just Metal Gear games but stuff like Zone of the Enders as well.

Ken only had what? Bioshock 1 and then a 7 year gap for Bioshock 2?
where to even start with this.
 

Pilgrimzero

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Jun 23, 2014
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Kojima is a perfectionist? Are we saying the 2nd half of MGS4 was "as planned"?

I just can't get over how "crazy" this series got from MG to MGS to MGS4 to MGSPW.

How did this series go from bad ass military guy to girls in their panties in a mech?

Don't get me wrong I've more or less enjoyed every MG games but I'll never get the love of Kojima. Dude just kept taking it "too far" IMO.

I think Silent Hills is where he could have really shined. He could let the crazy out and it really makes sense.
 

baconcow

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Mar 11, 2012
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Many complain when a game ships unfinished and broken. There is no way I will complain when Kojima wants us to have the best product possible. He likely deserves every penny.
 

IAmRandom31

Banned
Aug 4, 2013
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Doesn't make sense. Why freak out to such an extent if Kojima just got too expensive and there was a falling out?

It almost seemed personal between Kojima / Konami with the way Konami was out to erase Kojima from their company and any scrap of his name being erased from the files. Was very odd.
 

RK9039

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Aug 23, 2012
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No Rika Muranaka is lame as well. She worked on some of the best MGS themes in the entire series.
 

muteant

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Jan 24, 2013
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Stuff not being used happens ALL THE TIME btw.
exactly.

as someone who works in the film industry, i find it quite laughable that Kojima not feeling beholden to use music he had commissioned a composer to do is being cited as one of the outrageous behaviors that pushed Konami's hand to fire him.

the fact is, the MGS series is what it is b/c Kojima esteems himself first and foremost as an artist. And a full-fledged "artist" working for hire within an "industry" is typically not going to make decisions based on what's most economical. I suppose Konami ran the numbers and decided that his approach to directing games was losing them $$$ at the end of the day. If they terminated him only because the decision-makers found him insufferable, then that was an emotional choice that probably shouldn't have made. You can always hire a fresh, eager face to buffer yourself from an asshole with talent (not contending that Kojima is an asshole; only that Konami possibly perceived him as such).
 

DavidDesu

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Oct 26, 2014
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I liked how he's getting a fixed payment and not taking a bonus on profits, and is making the game the absolute best it can be, and with that greater success he won't see any money. Can't complain with that. I'm sure Konami wanted it out ages ago etc, but now it will sell more and be critically acclaimed, so they're just shooting themselves in the foot yet again it seems.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Dec 9, 2006
35,047
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We knew from the start that Konami wanted to stop making expensive games, and MGS games were always a big projects. They would have always find some reason for kicking Kojima, no matter what.

I'm glad that he was perfectionist, we get so little games made in that manner these days in AAA space. Even though they have fired him, at least we will get the best possible game.
 
I wouldn't want him either. He is wasteful it seems. Nothing wrong with ditching him. What's eff'd up is how they handled it.
Yeah. Most of the problems come from how they 1984'd Kojima and Silent Hills, only keeping MGSV to presumably earn back some of the money he spent. If they were simply a little more transparent and the company itself wasn't trying to drag Kojima through the mud while simultaneously going off the deep end themselves, I doubt this would've been a debacle until they made it clear they were leaving the game industry after MGSV (And even then, it wouldn't've made people as mad).

I mean, we all appreciate everything Kojima does, but it's MGS. It's going to sell gangbusters no matter how much money went into it. I can see both the new and old CEO getting annoyed with this financial hemorrhaging, from his perspective, even if I still side with Kojima, and appreciate the quality game we're getting in return. From an artist's perspective, it's necessary, but from a businessman's perspective, it might be construed as wasteful. I just wish it was handled in a way fitting of 2 adults who disagree, and not... this.
 

jmizzal

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May 26, 2012
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I wouldnt doubt it honestly, the game has $$$$$$$ written all over it. And thats partially why I love the series, a high budget game with an auteur's hand. Shit probably costs money.
Yup but the publisher would rather pull a WB, MS or Ubisoft or any others they rush games out that are buggy and the online doesnt work and just another unfinished game just to get it out when they want it out and not when the game is done
 

Coffee Dog

Banned
Aug 23, 2012
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Doesn't make sense. Why freak out to such an extent if Kojima just got too expensive and there was a falling out?

It almost seemed personal between Kojima / Konami with the way Konami was out to erase Kojima from their company and any scrap of his name being erased from the files. Was very odd.
This doesn't preclude that, really. Most likely this started the conversation and everyone ended up pissing each other off and burning bridges.
 

Ridley327

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Feb 7, 2005
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No Rika Muranaka is lame as well. She worked on some of the best MGS themes in the entire series.
The thing that's weird was her complaining about them not being able to afford her. It's not like HGW wouldn't be a considerably more expensive option, given that he's still an in-demand composer in Hollywood; assuming that he's the one that's been doing the bulk of the original compositions, that is.
 

BrianRoyale

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Aug 6, 2014
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It's a breath of fresh air to when I hear that someone has the OCD to make sure a game is as perfect as it can be when it ships out. I'm worried about his future projects though, I'm not sure any company will flip that kind of bill for him going forward, and if he goes Indie I'm not sure how he'll ever get a game out.