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Kojima was too expensive apparently

Jul 27, 2014
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In Kojima's case though, his portfolio of games is way bigger. Shipping not just Metal Gear games but stuff like Zone of the Enders as well.

Ken only had what? Bioshock 1 and then a 7 year gap for Bioshock 2?
What? Levine has been making games long before Bioshock.
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
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Many complain when a game ships unfinished and broken. There is no way I will complain when Kojima wants us to have the best product possible. He likely deserves every penny.
Honestly, I feel like wanting to ship a high-quality product is admirable, but can easily be taken to far. Sometimes you have to prioritize and make sacrifices on little things in order to meet budgets. I think being the type of perfectionist who isn't willing to compromise on anything, including minute details that most people never even notice, isn't admirable at all, especially when it starts costing a shit ton of money. Because while it might be fine for consumers, who pay the same price and don't really see the costs, it's probably hell on the people working with him. Kojima got fired sure, but if he was going overbudget a lot he probably got a lot of other people laid off as well. And unlike Kojima, who I'm sure was making much more before that and has a famous name to get in with someone else, those guys are much worse off
 

BadWolf

Member
Apr 15, 2010
26,126
4
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We knew from the start that Konami wanted to stop making expensive games, and MGS games were always a big projects. They would have always find some reason for kicking Kojima, no matter what.

I'm glad that he was perfectionist, we get so little games made in that manner these days in AAA space. Even though they have fired him, at least we will get the best possible game.
Yeah, he would have left either way considering the direction the company is heading.

It's not surprising that his KojiPro buddies are leaving with him as well.
 

Toxi

Banned
May 29, 2013
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Not really, while big scandals comparable to watergate itself were affixed the "gate" suffix, the modern overuse is relatively recent. -Gate doesn't refer to any news or scandal, it historically had a pretty narrow reach (i.e. election scandals).
Almost as annoying as the overuse of the phrase "the emperor has no clothes".

I swear to God every issue of the Economist will contain at least one instance of that phrase.
 

KorrZ

Member
Jun 7, 2011
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Not surprising at all, and this was pretty much the expected reason. MGS games have a level of detail that most games can't hope to match, and when we're talking about the HD era + an open world, that level of detail gets very expensive, very fast.

It sounds like it was Kojima's sheer inflexibility on some of these things that is what really did him in. Does foliage resolution really matter that much in the grand scheme of things? Probably not. As gamers, it's great to see that he's willing to push for even the smallest details. As a business though, it's understandable how that would cause problems.
 

Prine

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
13,817
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Dont understand - these games make huge profit and Fox Engine is an investment to help other products, its capitalised by that fact. Kojima waiting to push the engine where its ina state he's pleased with it is good PR for the company and its technology.

She sounds confused, because from what she said there, Kojima sounds like a genius, that makes incredible profitable games and pushes the technology they use, which is then used internally. Sounds like a great business man to me.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Jul 19, 2011
23,085
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I could believe this if Kojima was the only problem. As is though MGS is just another in a long list of franchises deemed not worth it anymore by Konami and Kojima is just another creator being let go.
This is a fair point, however Kojima being a very expensive expense for the company does seem to fit in with the changing direction and abandonment of Konami's other AAA IP.
 

Gunstar Ikari

Unconfirmed Member
Jan 21, 2013
5,566
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That's not a particularly outrageous reason to can Kojima, even putting aside the "torch our console games business and run" thing that Konami seems to have going on.

Scrubbing his name from everything is still incredibly petty though.
 

Maxim726X

Member
Jan 16, 2010
11,146
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That's called making an investment. If you have a guy in a company that costs a ton to maintain, is a general pain in the ass, but in the end he ends up bringing huge profits, the company should be more than happy to have him/her. Most companies have people like that as they are usually the ones that have all the great ideas.

MGSV is going to sell a shit ton of copies and will absolutely recover the investment. So I call bullshit, Konami execs cannot be that stupid to let go a guy like that because "he is expensive".
Well... Yeah. The question is ultimately if his games sell enough to justify putting up with his (alleged) bullshit.

How did MGS4 do, and what was the cost of production?
 

eizarus

Banned
Jul 21, 2014
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Why is everyone doing a sudden 180 as if that's explained everything. Maybe I missed something but it doesn't explain why Konami is removing all traces of Kojima from the game. They even removed his name from the cover. Sounds like more than just a money issue.

Plus, like others have mentioned, there are wasted assets in every creative industry. (Just ask Joss Whedon).
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
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I liked how he's getting a fixed payment and not taking a bonus on profits, and is making the game the absolute best it can be, and with that greater success he won't see any money. Can't complain with that. I'm sure Konami wanted it out ages ago etc, but now it will sell more and be critically acclaimed, so they're just shooting themselves in the foot yet again it seems.
I don't know how you can say this without knowing what the fixed payment is. It's entirely possible said fixed payment actually got him a lot more money than he would have were he paid based on sales. And it's also an issue if he's making huge amounts of money while his game is landing his company in the red (and we can't be sure they haven't, because we don't know how much they cost to make, or even exactly what cut of the sale price Konami was actually taking)
 

Spukc

Member
Jan 24, 2015
10,230
6,044
600
spoiled little brat syndrome .
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear


It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.

Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.

All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
 

Neff

Member
Feb 6, 2012
11,997
418
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UK
What I will find amusing is when Konami start bringing in the money from MGS V. I'm fairly certain it will be are more popular and successful game than they expect, and I suspect there may be some regret when they inevitably attempt an MGS game without Kojima and probably see that the effect isn't replicated
I'm not sure the effect will be as different as you suggest. MGS has a massive casual audience who have no idea who Kojima is.

There might be a tail-off in interest in future MGS games if the same quality isn't there, but it will be a long and slow process. People will continue to buy games in the series in large numbers for the foreseeable future.
 

jwhit28

Member
Feb 27, 2010
6,102
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North Carolina
Yup but the publisher would rather pull a WB, MS or Ubisoft or any others they rush games out that are buggy and the online doesnt work and just another unfinished game just to get it out when they want it out and not when the game is done
You mean pull a Konami, like with Lords of Shadows 2, or a number of Silent Hill games.
 

Auctopus

Member
Apr 6, 2014
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ITT: Gaffers unable to accept that a BUSINESS made a FINANCIAL decision because f-... fu-... fuck Konami right, guys?

Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,006
0
0
Illinois
Kinda a self fulfilling prophecy imo. Kojima wanted to move on from MGS since 2. His teams inability to take the reigns constantly forced him back. I wouldn't be shocked if there was some push from Konami as well.

If this report is to be believed I can see the issue but how much money has Kojima brought in to konami with the MGS franchise alone? They all sell very well which is why they continue to get made.

Not to mention Kojima was seemingly about to strike gold with Silent Hills as well. P.T. had even non gamers interested.

I think Kojima could be successful in the game industry after this stint. I can see him making something a bit more focused. He's a fan of indie games so I can see him doing something there.
 

BadWolf

Member
Apr 15, 2010
26,126
4
0
spoiled little brat syndrome .
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear


It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.

Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.

All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
smh

This is why we can't have nice things.
 

Tiberius

Member
Jun 10, 2004
758
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So kojima was too expensive ?

Kojima's game sold tons of copies and the fox engine permit konami's games to stay relevant this gen !

And what about all the other creatives who left konami ? Too expensive too ?

The suits just want to cash in easy money with the mobile business
 

Ein Bear

Member
Mar 10, 2011
7,094
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England
Speaking as someone who's all time favourite franchise is Metal Gear, Konami do kind of have a point here. By the time Phantom Pain comes out, it'll have been seven years between MGS4 and MGS5. In the interim they had Metal Gear Rising, which turned out awesome but had a disastrous development cycle, and Peace Walker which was a PSP game that didn't exactly set the world on fire.

Kojima is a genius, but you can kind of see how he must be costing Konami a fortune.
 

realcZk

Member
Jun 22, 2013
2,755
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over there
I'm expecting MGSV to sell really well. It's on last gen, current gen and PC (huge install base) and the press impressions have been great. I think the gameplay will attract a lot of new metal gear players as well.
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
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Need him for what, exactly?
Yeah, I'd say it was the other way around. Video games aren't even Konami's main business, and if this is to be believed he could easily have been costing them more than he actually made. If anything, depending on how far he takes it this could be a problem for Kojima, since if he can't handle a budget he can't run his own studio, and it's possible others would be wary of hiring him
 

Krejlooc

Banned
May 27, 2014
25,437
10
0
spoiled little brat syndrome .
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear


It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.

Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.

All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
Perfect avatar for this type of post lmao
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,006
0
0
Illinois
ITT: Gaffers unable to accept that a BUSINESS made a FINANCIAL decision because f-... fu-... fuck Konami right, guys?

Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
MGS is a sellable product though. Right now it's their only game that has potential to sell 5 million plus.
 
Nov 22, 2014
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So overall his process is an arse to deal with, and they weren't willing to foot the bill anymore. Understandable, but you can't deny whatever Kojima's been doing over the years has produced incredibly consistent quality. I got a feeling the team he's leaving behind will actually make good games in their future. Just maybe less magical ones.

EDIT: just remembered how they messed up rising and some of the older metal gear games when kojima wanted to step back. Now I really dont know what to think
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
0
0
I'm expecting MGSV to sell really well. It's on last gen, current gen and PC (huge install base) and the press impressions have been great. I think the gameplay will attract a lot of new metal gear players as well.
Which might not matter if spent way too much money actually getting those sales. Hell, from a business perspective it hurts if some of the costs he insisted on didn't help sales at all, even if it does make money. One thing I've learned is that people on the internet have no concept of Opportunity Cost.
 

Servbot24

Banned
Feb 14, 2012
30,485
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Austin, TX
www.ianbarkerart.com
I'm really excited that Kojima got to go nuts for one final game, but this is a huge rarity. A game with such a strong director being given so much money to realize his vision is an awesome thing to see, but in no way is it sustainable. If Konami has to go out, this is the coolest way they can do it.
 

Maxim726X

Member
Jan 16, 2010
11,146
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MGS is a sellable product though. Right now it's their only game that has potential to sell 5 million plus.
...And we live in a world where Squeenix considered Tomb Raider a financial failure because it didn't sell a gazillion copies. Again, the question needs to be asked- how much has Konami actually been profiting from his games?
 

Aaronrules380

Member
Feb 19, 2013
15,791
0
0
MGS is a sellable product though. Right now it's their only game that has potential to sell 5 million plus.
Cool, but that's irrelevant if it cost too much to develop. It's also irrelevant if they make too small of a profit that they could've made several times more selling something else
 

hal9001

Banned
Mar 19, 2013
3,674
0
0
spoiled little brat syndrome .
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear


It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.

Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.

All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
22,006
0
0
Illinois
So overall his process is an arse to deal with, and they weren't willing to foot the bill anymore. Understandable, but you can't deny whatever Kojima's been doing over the years has produced incredibly consistent quality. I got a feeling the team he's leaving behind will actually make good games in their future. Just maybe less magical ones.
I'm pretty sure Kojima is going to take a few of his high profile guys with him when he leaves. Shinkawa is definitely leaving with him.