RespectThySole
Member
What? Levine has been making games long before Bioshock.
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Kojima was too expensive apparently
- Thread starter Jindrax
- Start date
What? Levine has been making games long before Bioshock.
Aaronrules380
Member
Honestly, I feel like wanting to ship a high-quality product is admirable, but can easily be taken to far. Sometimes you have to prioritize and make sacrifices on little things in order to meet budgets. I think being the type of perfectionist who isn't willing to compromise on anything, including minute details that most people never even notice, isn't admirable at all, especially when it starts costing a shit ton of money. Because while it might be fine for consumers, who pay the same price and don't really see the costs, it's probably hell on the people working with him. Kojima got fired sure, but if he was going overbudget a lot he probably got a lot of other people laid off as well. And unlike Kojima, who I'm sure was making much more before that and has a famous name to get in with someone else, those guys are much worse off
Yeah, he would have left either way considering the direction the company is heading.
It's not surprising that his KojiPro buddies are leaving with him as well.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Gate Gate is now started. Stop the Gates!
Almost as annoying as the overuse of the phrase "the emperor has no clothes".
I swear to God every issue of the Economist will contain at least one instance of that phrase.
Jimmyfenix
Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2VnzbnliZI&feature=youtu.be&t=3m2s
here is the link
he talks about it at the 3 min mark
Not surprising at all, and this was pretty much the expected reason. MGS games have a level of detail that most games can't hope to match, and when we're talking about the HD era + an open world, that level of detail gets very expensive, very fast.
It sounds like it was Kojima's sheer inflexibility on some of these things that is what really did him in. Does foliage resolution really matter that much in the grand scheme of things? Probably not. As gamers, it's great to see that he's willing to push for even the smallest details. As a business though, it's understandable how that would cause problems.
It sounds like it was Kojima's sheer inflexibility on some of these things that is what really did him in. Does foliage resolution really matter that much in the grand scheme of things? Probably not. As gamers, it's great to see that he's willing to push for even the smallest details. As a business though, it's understandable how that would cause problems.
Dont understand - these games make huge profit and Fox Engine is an investment to help other products, its capitalised by that fact. Kojima waiting to push the engine where its ina state he's pleased with it is good PR for the company and its technology.
She sounds confused, because from what she said there, Kojima sounds like a genius, that makes incredible profitable games and pushes the technology they use, which is then used internally. Sounds like a great business man to me.
She sounds confused, because from what she said there, Kojima sounds like a genius, that makes incredible profitable games and pushes the technology they use, which is then used internally. Sounds like a great business man to me.
AHA-Lambda
Member
This is a fair point, however Kojima being a very expensive expense for the company does seem to fit in with the changing direction and abandonment of Konami's other AAA IP.
Love Deterrence
Member
You guys will rue the day you doubted Metal Gear Gaseous starring Viper Snake - A KONAMI GAME.
Quadraphonic
Member
They all had evacuated the island at the time because of the impending typhoon. Nedry was the last one left.
Gunstar Ikari
Unconfirmed Member
That's not a particularly outrageous reason to can Kojima, even putting aside the "torch our console games business and run" thing that Konami seems to have going on.
Scrubbing his name from everything is still incredibly petty though.
Scrubbing his name from everything is still incredibly petty though.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Oh shit, Konami had better not fuck this up ;_;
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Game isnt out yet so too soon to tell.
Vital Tundra
Member
Good. I don't want to see credits after every mission, that's stupid.
Well... Yeah. The question is ultimately if his games sell enough to justify putting up with his (alleged) bullshit.
How did MGS4 do, and what was the cost of production?
JordanN
Banned
Why is everyone doing a sudden 180 as if that's explained everything. Maybe I missed something but it doesn't explain why Konami is removing all traces of Kojima from the game. They even removed his name from the cover. Sounds like more than just a money issue.
Plus, like others have mentioned, there are wasted assets in every creative industry. (Just ask Joss Whedon).
Plus, like others have mentioned, there are wasted assets in every creative industry. (Just ask Joss Whedon).
Aaronrules380
Member
I don't know how you can say this without knowing what the fixed payment is. It's entirely possible said fixed payment actually got him a lot more money than he would have were he paid based on sales. And it's also an issue if he's making huge amounts of money while his game is landing his company in the red (and we can't be sure they haven't, because we don't know how much they cost to make, or even exactly what cut of the sale price Konami was actually taking)
Spukc
always chasing the next thrill
spoiled little brat syndrome .
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear
It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.
Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.
All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
same story for jeremy clarkson from top gear
It is a shame they had to sack him but he had it coming.
Looking from konami's side i can completely understand this.
At the end it's a team that made the game not a single person.
He has to tone his diva meter back to minus 200.
All you guys where overacting like it was all on konami xD
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Need him for what, exactly?
Neff
Member
I'm not sure the effect will be as different as you suggest. MGS has a massive casual audience who have no idea who Kojima is.
There might be a tail-off in interest in future MGS games if the same quality isn't there, but it will be a long and slow process. People will continue to buy games in the series in large numbers for the foreseeable future.
You mean pull a Konami, like with Lords of Shadows 2, or a number of Silent Hill games.
ITT: Gaffers unable to accept that a BUSINESS made a FINANCIAL decision because f-... fu-... fuck Konami right, guys?
Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
Whether he's a perfectionist or not, if he's too expensive, a business is not going to want him. The majority of publishers don't care about a game reaching its true potential, they want a sellable product out the door.
Kinda a self fulfilling prophecy imo. Kojima wanted to move on from MGS since 2. His teams inability to take the reigns constantly forced him back. I wouldn't be shocked if there was some push from Konami as well.
If this report is to be believed I can see the issue but how much money has Kojima brought in to konami with the MGS franchise alone? They all sell very well which is why they continue to get made.
Not to mention Kojima was seemingly about to strike gold with Silent Hills as well. P.T. had even non gamers interested.
I think Kojima could be successful in the game industry after this stint. I can see him making something a bit more focused. He's a fan of indie games so I can see him doing something there.
If this report is to be believed I can see the issue but how much money has Kojima brought in to konami with the MGS franchise alone? They all sell very well which is why they continue to get made.
Not to mention Kojima was seemingly about to strike gold with Silent Hills as well. P.T. had even non gamers interested.
I think Kojima could be successful in the game industry after this stint. I can see him making something a bit more focused. He's a fan of indie games so I can see him doing something there.
Ein Bear
Member
Speaking as someone who's all time favourite franchise is Metal Gear, Konami do kind of have a point here. By the time Phantom Pain comes out, it'll have been seven years between MGS4 and MGS5. In the interim they had Metal Gear Rising, which turned out awesome but had a disastrous development cycle, and Peace Walker which was a PSP game that didn't exactly set the world on fire.
Kojima is a genius, but you can kind of see how he must be costing Konami a fortune.
Kojima is a genius, but you can kind of see how he must be costing Konami a fortune.
Yes, but money is still a thing. You have to stop throwing things away at some point.
Aaronrules380
Member
Yeah, I'd say it was the other way around. Video games aren't even Konami's main business, and if this is to be believed he could easily have been costing them more than he actually made. If anything, depending on how far he takes it this could be a problem for Kojima, since if he can't handle a budget he can't run his own studio, and it's possible others would be wary of hiring him
Kenzodielocke
Banned
nvm.
Perfect avatar for this type of post lmao
The Cartographer
Member
Is Kojima a millionaire?
That sounded more like the credits before main missions were cut, I'm okay with that.
Credits appearing every time you start a main mission is a stupid idea.
MGS is a sellable product though. Right now it's their only game that has potential to sell 5 million plus.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
So overall his process is an arse to deal with, and they weren't willing to foot the bill anymore. Understandable, but you can't deny whatever Kojima's been doing over the years has produced incredibly consistent quality. I got a feeling the team he's leaving behind will actually make good games in their future. Just maybe less magical ones.
EDIT: just remembered how they messed up rising and some of the older metal gear games when kojima wanted to step back. Now I really dont know what to think
EDIT: just remembered how they messed up rising and some of the older metal gear games when kojima wanted to step back. Now I really dont know what to think
Aaronrules380
Member
Which might not matter if spent way too much money actually getting those sales. Hell, from a business perspective it hurts if some of the costs he insisted on didn't help sales at all, even if it does make money. One thing I've learned is that people on the internet have no concept of Opportunity Cost.
I'm really excited that Kojima got to go nuts for one final game, but this is a huge rarity. A game with such a strong director being given so much money to realize his vision is an awesome thing to see, but in no way is it sustainable. If Konami has to go out, this is the coolest way they can do it.
Remember when Tomb Raider sold 5 million copies and hadn't broken even yet?
Quality titles, because aside from Metal Gear, Konami have been release nothing but sub par terrible quality games for years.
...And we live in a world where Squeenix considered Tomb Raider a financial failure because it didn't sell a gazillion copies. Again, the question needs to be asked- how much has Konami actually been profiting from his games?
Castef
Banned
I fully agree with this! Let's stop the GateGate!
Aaronrules380
Member
Cool, but that's irrelevant if it cost too much to develop. It's also irrelevant if they make too small of a profit that they could've made several times more selling something else
I'm pretty sure Kojima is going to take a few of his high profile guys with him when he leaves. Shinkawa is definitely leaving with him.