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Konami's fall from grace
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
Hours Left
Member
That was a Suikoden in name only. Something that no one wanted.
I don't know why they thought that a game like that would entice the fan base in any way.
Konami has made a profit for every year since 2007; Sega made a huge profit in their past fiscal year. I'll have to check with the others
edit: checking through the major Japanese publishers, every single one of them reported recent profits with the exception of Square Enix, Nintendo & Sony (who's losses are largely due to their other sectors)
Never forget.
better than gt4
sechsterangriff
Member
Not to mention their healthclub chain business...
airmangataosenai
Member
I actually have wondered in the past how they're still in business. I mean companies like THQ go under and they had a bunch of successful franchises. Even in Japan Konami struggles with anything not under the MGS banner.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
Konami is now a Metal Gear factory. It's a sad situation.
Unfortunately, they made several poor business decisions like:
And it's too bad, because some of their ideas made sense on paper.
They tried to do remakes of some of their nostalgic titles, which could have been awesome, if they didn't suck:
Personally, I had hoped that Konami would:
Furthermore, Hudson's franchises could make for great downloadable titles: a new Bomberman game like the N64 versions could be good, as would new versions of Adventure Island similar to the GameCube remakes
Unfortunately, they made several poor business decisions like:
- running the Igavania style Castlevanias into the ground with too many games that didn't push the envelope
- out-sourcing Castlevania to a team that doesn't deserve it
- abandoning the Suikoden series
- abandoning Zone of the Enders series (HD remake doesn't count)
- abandoning Goemon series
- abandoning Boktai series
- abandoning Gradius in favor of Otomedius
- wasting Hudson's line-up
- wasting highly original team responsible for Elebits / Dewy's Adventure (what happened to them?)
And it's too bad, because some of their ideas made sense on paper.
They tried to do remakes of some of their nostalgic titles, which could have been awesome, if they didn't suck:
- Vandal Hearts
- TMNT Turtles in Time
- Rocket Knight
- And the WiiWare versions of Contra, Castlevania, Gradius
Personally, I had hoped that Konami would:
- make Zone of the Enders 3
- rehire Treasure to make a follow-up to the incredible Gradius V
- create a full 3D polygonal version of Boktai on portables that returns to its roots (the first game was the best one)
- make an old-school Castlevania with separate levels like 1, 3, and 4 where platforming actually matters
- continue to make original IPs with the Elebits / Dewy's Adventure team
- allow Kojima to make something other than Metal Gear... the hinted at Snatcher with Suda 51 would have been amazing if it wasn't just a dumb radio play
Furthermore, Hudson's franchises could make for great downloadable titles: a new Bomberman game like the N64 versions could be good, as would new versions of Adventure Island similar to the GameCube remakes
Like I mentioned above, Konami is healthier as a company than EVER before. They have shit ton of income from their side businesses. I'm not even sure if we should even consider Konami as a video game company anymore.
You better believe it.
UrSuLeTZuL
Banned
Never forget.
Such an awesome game. I moderately enjoyed the last console Silent Hill but that book of memories crap looks like an abomination to me. It's sad they can't put MGS to rest and focus on new&exciting things.. here's hoping they will get their shit together.
IrishNinja
Member
i thought Sega took a big loss last financial statement, or was that based on prior expectations?
wasn't aware of the health & resorts chains, diversifying like that does indeed seem smart...but banking so much of their game development on one sphere, doesn't that seem - at the very least, with a looming shift in generations we're looking at - like a lot've missed opportunity? granted, i'm clearly biased but basically letting their catalog slowly die in irrelevance doesn't strike me as sound.
edit:
i'm thinking this might be a healthier perspective here, honestly
If there is one franchise that is constantly changing and surviving it is the Metal Gear franchise. Sorry dude but that statement is wrong on many levels.
Anyone expecting Japanese heavyweight companies to make games, more specifically new IPs, with Japanese aesthetics can give up the pipe dream. They won't because these no incentives unless it's on an established IP that guaranteed a certain respectable threshold of sales. At this point, it's a cultural thing. The dominant culture is flexing its muscle. Look at the box office for Spirited Away, not even close to the top 50 highest grossing animated film and 83% of the $274M came from Japan.
Be realistic, that's just how it is.
Only a minuscule portion of the audience in the West appreciate PG polished mechanics and creativity, their games are still bombing commercially. Bayo 2 and W101 don't look likely to change that course.
Be realistic, that's just how it is.
Only a minuscule portion of the audience in the West appreciate PG polished mechanics and creativity, their games are still bombing commercially. Bayo 2 and W101 don't look likely to change that course.
For Sega I'm seeing good figures for 2010, 11 & 12, though there were losses in 08 & 09. This is looking specifically at SegaSammy, not Sega sepcifically though.
edit: Looking at income by segment, it seems you are correct. "Consumer Business" lost in 2012 and was making a small profit previously. 2013 looks to be about even as well so far. Most of their profits come from the Pachinko stuff
To be fair, they only tried to sue the devs of Rock Band. Konami was apparently getting royalties from the devs of Guitar Hero.
Konami's music games consist of both original music and licensed music. Even without the licensed music, Konami has their own stable of really good DJs and composers that work exclusively for their music games.
Sega cancelled basically every western release due to financial reason. They were not making money on consumer division that much.
Still crossing finger for Yakuza 5.
glaringradio
Member
I still secretly hope they'll do more home Bemani that isn't dance dance revolution. It's not going to happen, but still. New IIDX for PS4 with every single in the series. Please.
Just because Index as a whole isn't making money doesn't mean that Atlus isn't.
Index is Atlus. Atlus don't exist as a separate entity anymore, and haven't since being absorbed into Index.
Their golden age was clearly the 8-16 bit era, but they were amazing last gen as well. MGS 2 & 3, ZOE 1 &2, Gradius V, Suikoden III & V, Order of Ecclesia, Dawn of Sorrow, Ring of Red, Ganbare Goemon DS, Lunar Knights, Contra 4, Silent Hill 2 & 3... lots of great stuff.
Now... ugh.
Now... ugh.
The Castlevania games weren't on the same generation as the rest you have listed. You could include Aria of Sorrow which is a better game imo anyway.
Duckhuntdog
Member
Uncle Rupee
Banned
That's a terrible idea, because everyone has already played that (Gears of War).
They can't really continue the Contra series.
Contra has, for all intents and purposes, been superseded by the Metal Slug series (which, too, is now on its last legs due to excessive regurgitation).
As many people have stated, in Japan video games (especially console/handheld games) aren't as "hot" as it used to be. It has become just another one of digital entertainments available in many forms, not the one stands out from the bunch.
You sure can be successful if you put enough money for development and promotions, but little people are treating this as a good investment.
Ever since Powerful Pro Baseball became a hit for Konami, in parallel with developping PES, they were smart enough to gradually shift more to "Sports and Fitness" area. If you ask an average Joe what Konami is today's Japan then he'll tell you it's a company runs a fitness club all over in Japan.
Up until, say like 2005 or so, many young skilled engineers wanted to get into game industry, but now the trend is reversed 180. I wish things turn around in a better way but there's little hope...
You sure can be successful if you put enough money for development and promotions, but little people are treating this as a good investment.
Ever since Powerful Pro Baseball became a hit for Konami, in parallel with developping PES, they were smart enough to gradually shift more to "Sports and Fitness" area. If you ask an average Joe what Konami is today's Japan then he'll tell you it's a company runs a fitness club all over in Japan.
Up until, say like 2005 or so, many young skilled engineers wanted to get into game industry, but now the trend is reversed 180. I wish things turn around in a better way but there's little hope...
IrishNinja
Member
that's actually pretty cool, didn't know that last bit - so that in-house stable of DJs is likely responsible for the beatmania tracks i dug then?
you and me both, brother
which is funny because much like Square, i can't tell you which era of theirs i liked better overall: SNES or PSX. the latter felt like it had so much more experimentation, but a side-by-side list of their titles from both gens makes for a really interesting discussion.
for both Konami's portfolio and Kojima's sanity, i'd love for that to be the case - Koji's seemed like he wanted to work on non-MGS titles forever now, but he never does
I'm guessing because it's financially risky to sell complex hardware for 1 game nowadays. Taiko can get away with it because 1. it's Taiko and they can market it to a huge audience, 2. the drum actually is just 2 sensors, not that hard to make.
That is absolutely correct.
Zoramon089
Banned
Where did you get that idea from?
They are the most profitable japanese publisher. Go figure...
Sapphire Dreams
Member
I really hate how this company doesn't make games anymore, they made a new IP this year and it was Blades of Time, while it wasn't too bad, it's hardly a remarkable piece of entertainment.
They do very well out of the social game business, periodically making more money than their console/handheld division.
Tizoc
Member
Weeeeeeeeeell I personally would like them to release the classic Rocket Knight games on PSN, XBL, Steam, etc.
It'll come bro, maybe not an E3 announcement but it'll come.
GIMME ALL YAKUZA GAMES ON STEAM SEGA! I WILL BUY AND GIFT THEM!!!!!
Night_Trekker
Member
Konami was a huge part of my childhood. They delivered some of the very best NES games, most of them classics.
To watch them fall from grace like this is painful and frustrating. I don't know what's wrong with them, but they've decidedly gone from a top-tier developer to my shit list in one generation. (AND they killed Hudson for no reason.) Nice job, guys.
Sadly, I agree
I wondering if that's how I should feel about no more Breath of Fire, too. Does Capcom still have employ the talent behind that series?
There you go.
I always forget about this, but when I remember I get really mad.
I dunno about Contra and Gradius, but CV Rebirth was quite good.
Yes please.
I'm still bitter about that.
Hey Suda, you have time to waste on shit like that but you can't write and direct GHM games anymore? UGH...
To watch them fall from grace like this is painful and frustrating. I don't know what's wrong with them, but they've decidedly gone from a top-tier developer to my shit list in one generation. (AND they killed Hudson for no reason.) Nice job, guys.
Sadly, I agree
I wondering if that's how I should feel about no more Breath of Fire, too. Does Capcom still have employ the talent behind that series?
There you go.
I always forget about this, but when I remember I get really mad.
I dunno about Contra and Gradius, but CV Rebirth was quite good.
Yes please.
I'm still bitter about that.
Hey Suda, you have time to waste on shit like that but you can't write and direct GHM games anymore? UGH...
Night_Trekker
Member
Yeah, and fucking Kojima has to be involved with both of them.
If he's got so much power and is so sick of MGS, why doesn't he make a new IP?
AHA-Lambda
Member
That's the thing I think as a company they're doing just fine via the social/mobile space. But they have become totally irrelevant in the AAA sector apart from MGS.
sechsterangriff
Member
He can't help it when his studio (aside from PES team) is the only one actually making hit best-sellling console games for the company. They can't just ignore their most successful IPs.
People like to blame him for the current state of Konami for some reason. He's only responsible for his studio efforts, he's not making the decisions that eventually led to the demise of other Konami studios and IPs.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I want Hard Corps Uprising 2: Hardcore Harder as well. Also let someone take a swing at making a classic style Castlevania (maybe Arc lol).
Night_Trekker
Member
I'm asking why he doesn't use that power to work on something new in addition to MGS, which he says he's tired of.
Instead, he goes and messes with Castlevania.
leesmapman
Member
As an MSX owner, I could only see Konami as the gaming titans, their output on the MSX systems were amazing (as history showed). But nowadays I really wonder what they do besides Castlevania and Metal Gear. I really stopped giving a damn when I saw their extreeeeme E3 conference
They also have PES!
That says a lot about Konami now. They can't even release games that serve as advertisements for their trading cards ...