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Konami's fall from grace
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
Konami Screwed up big time with Castlevania, one of my favorite series of all time and they decided to transform the series into a 3d platformer that is average at best .
A little bit off topic maybe but i see Gaffers talking a lot against MGS4 and i was curious what are you guys not liking about MGS4 ? i tought it was pretty good at the time when it came out (finished it).
I don't want to start a debate here but Im just curious to see some point of view from some fellow Gaffers who did not enjoy the game.
A little bit off topic maybe but i see Gaffers talking a lot against MGS4 and i was curious what are you guys not liking about MGS4 ? i tought it was pretty good at the time when it came out (finished it).
I don't want to start a debate here but Im just curious to see some point of view from some fellow Gaffers who did not enjoy the game.
Petrae
Member
Oooh. I actually stand corrected. Otomedius Excellent was the one I was thinking of. Damn my senility. Two stabs.
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
What's this bullshit I hear about people shitting on Tierkries? Maybe it wasn't some pseudo-historical revolution RPG, but it was really really awesome regardless.
entremet
Member
Well much like Miyamoto, Kojima brings in the bucks.
Haunted
Member
RIP Konami
So many cool franchises in the past, so many I was personally invested in.
Their only good games in the last couple years have been outsourced and made by Western devs - though they had plenty of outsourced duds as well. It's a real shame we've basically lost PES and MGS and Silent Hill to irrelevance (if not in the market, then in quality), all three used to be among my personal favourites.
Good recent games published by Konami: Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Contra 4.
So many cool franchises in the past, so many I was personally invested in.
Their only good games in the last couple years have been outsourced and made by Western devs - though they had plenty of outsourced duds as well. It's a real shame we've basically lost PES and MGS and Silent Hill to irrelevance (if not in the market, then in quality), all three used to be among my personal favourites.
Good recent games published by Konami: Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Contra 4.
RIP Konami
So many cool franchises in the past, so many I was personally invested in.
Their only good games in the last couple years have been outsourced and made by Western devs - though they had plenty of outsourced duds as well. It's a real shame we've basically lost PES and MGS and Silent Hill to irrelevance (if not in the market, then in quality), all three used to be among my personal favourites.
Good recent games published by Konami: Silent Hill: Shattered Memories, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, Contra 4.
MGS is not irrelevant, neither in market nor in quality.
I thought it was OK, nothing special as Suikodens are though.
leesmapman
Member
Poy Poy could make a great Kinect title.
Haunted
Member
I stand corrected, looks like they published Skullgirls as well, that's a good game.
edit: oh man, this thread just reminded me of Suikoden Tierkreis. Where's Himuro for a good rant if you need him. Though I didn't hate it as much as other Suikoden fans.
I think MGS4 is a steaming pile of shit and Kojima should not be directing games.
edit: oh man, this thread just reminded me of Suikoden Tierkreis.
Where's Himuro for a good rant if you need him. Though I didn't hate it as much as other Suikoden fans.lunchwithyuzo
Banned
And M2 actually developed both of them.Oooh. I actually stand corrected. Otomedius Excellent was the one I was thinking of. Damn my senility. Two stabs.
Best game of the generation.
I think the main problem like a lot of Japanese companies is that HD development turned into this chase of western studios. They realized that they need an international audience to sustain the development, what they didn't understand was that internationalizing doesn't mean simply pandering to the Western market. This is less interesting domestically, and it's not what fans of these companies were looking for. It's not even like western development was doing things right either. Teams were too big, budgets were too big, creativity was minimum, forced multiplayer, DLC, etc but oh man were the graphics and presentation top-notch. So they spent a lot of money to say "see, we can make awesome looking games too!" and then had their legacy dragged down with all the related bullshit.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Responsible for some of the finest games ever.
Castlevania (3D ones do not count)
Snatcher / Policenauts
Metal Gear Solid
Suikoden
Bemani
Gradius / Parodius
Track & Field series
Simpsons / Turtles / Crime Fighters / Vendetta
And now? Umm.... hmm. Very sad.
Castlevania (3D ones do not count)
Snatcher / Policenauts
Metal Gear Solid
Suikoden
Bemani
Gradius / Parodius
Track & Field series
Simpsons / Turtles / Crime Fighters / Vendetta
And now? Umm.... hmm. Very sad.
That sure as hell didn't work out for Peace Walker, but we'll see how MGSV does.
Too bad for you (and likeminded folks). I loved LoS as much as I loved SotN and Castlevania 4. It's a great game and frankly the franchise is in a healthier state these days than it ever was before. LoS sold pretty well and lots of fans are looking forward to the sequel.
Graphics Horse
Member
Business
Member
Indeed. Like every other Japanese developer I'd add.
leesmapman
Member
I'd like to add:
Maze of Galious (a MetroidVania like game from 1987)
The Goonies
Usas
Space Manbow (the best shooter on the MSX2)
King's Valley 2
Penguin Adventure (another Kojima game; referenced in MGS4)
That staff makes Monster Hunter and Ace Attorney games now. And the Art staff of Breath of Fire co-developed with imagepoech The Last Ranker.
Meccanical
Member
Really?
Least they made Harmony of Despair with that amazing OST.
An Empty Tome
My most played XBLA/PSN game of this-gen.
An Empty Tome
My most played XBLA/PSN game of this-gen.
For me, yes.
It also won GAF's game of the year twice iirc and that thread not too long ago about people's choices for game of the generation (up to now) was filled with MGS4 mentions as well.
Haunted
Member
RIP KonamiTruly the best thing to ever happen at E3. One of the only conferences I've watched multiple times
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Konami is a company who has always been in trouble it seems. They were one of the first Japanese developers to become infamous for bleeding talent big enough for the average gamer to notice - the guys who worked on Castlevania, Contra, and shooters in the 16-bit era who left to form multiple companies like Treasure.
The reasons cited by those former staff (I thought) where pretty much what seems to hurt Konami today: they were tired of being forced to work as development slaves on games that were just uninteresting.
Komani seems to have the worst ability of all big Japanese publishers outside of Square to manage their classic properties, IP, and general ecosystem. They just don't care or understand it. Right now they're pretty much just The Metal Gear Factory. And Metal Gear has, for a lot of people, been run straight into the ground by bizarre sequels, and bloated games some just can't trudge through.
The reasons cited by those former staff (I thought) where pretty much what seems to hurt Konami today: they were tired of being forced to work as development slaves on games that were just uninteresting.
Komani seems to have the worst ability of all big Japanese publishers outside of Square to manage their classic properties, IP, and general ecosystem. They just don't care or understand it. Right now they're pretty much just The Metal Gear Factory. And Metal Gear has, for a lot of people, been run straight into the ground by bizarre sequels, and bloated games some just can't trudge through.
they used to be my favorite game company ever, castlevania is still my favorite series.
now look at them...
their 8/16-bit output was amazing, great arcade games... nowadays, they have less that interests me than almost any company (i hate the MercurySteam Castlevania games, btw).
now look at them...
their 8/16-bit output was amazing, great arcade games... nowadays, they have less that interests me than almost any company (i hate the MercurySteam Castlevania games, btw).
I don't even know why these guys buy dev kits for new Sony hardware anymore.
Samir Sedlar
Member
it's like I am one of the very few who LOVE Castlevania Lords of Shadow, heck my highest anticipated game is Castlevania Lords of Shadow 2, I can't wait to see what it is all about.
Edit: On 2nd thought I actually enjoyed all 3D Castlevania, Lament of Innocence & Curse of Darkness.
Edit: On 2nd thought I actually enjoyed all 3D Castlevania, Lament of Innocence & Curse of Darkness.
Contra? Castlevania? Dance Dance Revolution? IIDX(?).
Konami was a strong arcade company. The collapse of that and not having strong console titles besides 4 (MGS, Suikoden which wasn't that strong in the west granted since FF's juggernaut blotted out the JRPG sun for a while, Castlevania which is a borderline hit in the west but got "old," Contra but that hasn't been a super-strong hit since the NES days) really is what effected them more than anything.
They fact they never put Iga on task to redo sprites and animations for HD (that one IGAvania multiplayer arcade title was a total phone-in and half-assed) while leaving the "Metroidvania" market completely dry on non-handhelds is mind boggling. I mean Gucawhatever just shows a market is out there DYING to buy your game and yet you don't make it, Konami?
Cow Mengde
Banned
Konami hasn't been relevant since the end of the 16 Bit days. Yeah, they sometimes make some noise on the PS1, but their decline started then.
ProtomanNeo
Member
Konami along with a few other developers felt like they couldn't make the jump to 3d well. There are are certain IP's which I think would be perfect in this day and age are mysteriously absent. With games like Gears of War doing gang busters, one has to wonder where is Contra? Gradius is another old franchise that cold make the jump to HD well, if done right.
I can dream of next gen TXR, and its addictive awful steering joy.
leesmapman
Member
Konami in the PS1 era: Gradius Gaiden, ISS pro, CV: SotN, Vandal Hearts, (and the aforementioned Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid).
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I agree the decline started in a sense with the transition from sprites to polygons, but I still felt like Konami was a top tier dev on PS1/N64/PS2, and was still putting out great polygonal stuff (MGS1-3, SH1-3, Goemon 64 1-2, Contra SS, ZOE1-2, ISS series, Vandal Hearts 1-2, etc) as well as continuing some good sprite stuff on PS1 and later GBA/DS.
I think the real end times started when Konami dissolved their separate Japanese dev teams and consolidated all development under one mass studio structure. KCET and KCEO put out a TON of cool stuff in the 1990s and early 2000s, now all the shells of those divisions do is pretty much annual sports games (PES and Power Pro/Yakyuu Spirits respectively). And I'm not even touching how badly they mishandled the Hudson takeover.
I guess all we can hope for is that the FOX engine is so good that it will be able to carry all their internal development and thereby spur their overall output. This might lead to them widening their portfolio beyond MGS and produce some great titles across all platforms, reviving or revitalizing quite a few of their IPs.
TheJollyCorner
Member
whaaaa?
They kicked ass during the PS2 era, as well.
-Silent Hill 2, 3, 4, Origins, Shattered Memories
-MGS 2 & 3
-Ring of Red
-Shadows of Memories/Destiny
-Castlevania LoI & CoD
-Rumble Roses
-Suikoden III, IV, V, Tactics
-Zone of Enders 1 & 2
-Contra: Shattered Soldiers, Neo-Contra
-PES series
-Silent Scope 1, 2, & 3
-Gradius III, IV, V
-Nano Breaker
-Lifeline
just to name a few.
CyclopsRock
Member
Their biggest failure was losing their Pro Evo dominance over Fifa. It was a sure fire annual round of money for them.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Video games are a side-business for Konami
Until or unless their other markets collapse and somehow video games are still standing, I don't think they'll ever go full force in to gaming again.
Until or unless their other markets collapse and somehow video games are still standing, I don't think they'll ever go full force in to gaming again.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
Konami may as well change their names to the Metal Gear company now. They are bereft of new ideas.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
whaaaa?
They kicked ass during the PS2 era, as well.
-Silent Hill 2, 3, 4, Origins, Shattered Memories
-MGS 2 & 3
-Ring of Red
-Shadows of Memories/Destiny
-Castlevania LoI & CoD
-Rumble Roses
-Suikoden III, IV, V, Tactics
-Zone of Enders 1 & 2
-Contra: Shattered Soldiers, Neo-Contra
-PES series
-Silent Scope 1, 2, & 3
-Gradius III, IV, V
-Nano Breaker
-Lifeline
just to name a few.
Bolded the crap