Crayon
Member
I'm available for $0.03 per post. Not a penny less.
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Kotaku: FTC Slams YouTube Group For 'Deceptive' Xbox Marketing Campaign
- Thread starter benny_a
- Start date
I'm available for $0.03 per post. Not a penny less.
SwiftDeath
Member
Will shill at thefit's rate - $1 per view/click
BibiMaghoo
Member
Chuck Norris
Banned
I work in advertising and we have regularly paid influencers to step in and post positive comments or try and start conversation
Don't think we have had any curate content though. Maybe that's where the distinction lies
Don't think we have had any curate content though. Maybe that's where the distinction lies
jimbobsmells
Member
You sir, are part of the problem.
Crayon
Member
Is "influencers" a typical term that gets used inside? Like a buzzword?
lighthouse777
Member
this is OLD news, it happened in 2013
http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/2/9248527/ftc-machinima-deceptive
Neither Microsoft nor Starcrom were cited for wrongdoings in the order. According to a letter written to Microsoft:
"The failures to disclose here appear to be isolated incidents that occurred in spite of, and not in the absence of, policies and procedures designed to prevent such lapses.
Microsoft had a robust compliance program in place when the Xbox One campaign was launched, including specific legal and marketing guidelines concerning the FTC's Endorsement Guides, 16 C.P.R. Part 255, and relevant training made available to employees, vendors and Starcom personnel.
Since the Xbox One campaign, Microsoft and Starcom have adopted additional safeguards regarding sponsored endorsements, and they have committed to, among other steps, specifically requiring their employees to monitor influencer campaigns conducted by subcontractors in the future.
In addition, Microsoft and Starcom took swift action to require that Machinima insert disclosures into the campaign videos once they learned that Machinima had paid the influencer and that no disclosures had been made."
kotaku left a lot of stuff out when they wrote that
http://kotaku.com/ftc-slams-youtube-group-for-deceptive-xbox-marketing-ca-1728237588
and this is old news
http://www.polygon.com/2015/9/2/9248527/ftc-machinima-deceptive
Neither Microsoft nor Starcrom were cited for wrongdoings in the order. According to a letter written to Microsoft:
"The failures to disclose here appear to be isolated incidents that occurred in spite of, and not in the absence of, policies and procedures designed to prevent such lapses.
Microsoft had a robust compliance program in place when the Xbox One campaign was launched, including specific legal and marketing guidelines concerning the FTC's Endorsement Guides, 16 C.P.R. Part 255, and relevant training made available to employees, vendors and Starcom personnel.
Since the Xbox One campaign, Microsoft and Starcom have adopted additional safeguards regarding sponsored endorsements, and they have committed to, among other steps, specifically requiring their employees to monitor influencer campaigns conducted by subcontractors in the future.
In addition, Microsoft and Starcom took swift action to require that Machinima insert disclosures into the campaign videos once they learned that Machinima had paid the influencer and that no disclosures had been made."
kotaku left a lot of stuff out when they wrote that
http://kotaku.com/ftc-slams-youtube-group-for-deceptive-xbox-marketing-ca-1728237588
and this is old news
Only when they've been blatantly obvious. The best ones are probably still around. You might think they're normal users. You might even think they're your friends. But they're not.
And they could be..
anywhere.
So spooky!
What are you talking about? This is a new thread for the press release about the settlement between Machinima and the FTC which was published on September 2nd 2015 (Today, U.S.)
AngelOFDeath
Member
Is it too late to get paid? I am in some need of some quick cash... quick lots of cash
Crayon
Member
Unfortunately bish is in this thread and I got a warning before for this but if I was the person responsible for picking the next prospect for drafting for my NFL team I would pick that guy for D.
please no permanent ban
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
You missed a golden opportunity to make a pun off of "here's my two cents"!
Hopefully this ends the astroturfers and viral marketers and paid shills on forums, YouTube, Twitch streamers. It's hard to know these days who's even genuine with the amount of money and privileges sometimes provided. I hope this action also makes them think twice about journalists and reviewers who for a long time have gotten swag and early access and other sweet deals for 'decent' review scores.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Isolated incidents my ass, this is wide spread.
Glad something (though it's just a token slap on the wrist) is done. The fines for these kinds of practices should be enormous.
Hopefully they go after shills like fankieonPC next (also paid to say positive shit about games in the past and paid to hide bugs AND to not tell his audience about it)
Glad something (though it's just a token slap on the wrist) is done. The fines for these kinds of practices should be enormous.
Hopefully they go after shills like fankieonPC next (also paid to say positive shit about games in the past and paid to hide bugs AND to not tell his audience about it)
Compared to what it says on their website, this 16kUSD is already enormous. Payola has a limit of 10k USD as far as I can tell.
slavesnyder
Member
He meant influenza.
Dyslexic.
Crayon
Member
And really it's in all our best interests to resist pointing fingers for a number of reasons. Foremost is that you don't want to slide into a witch hunt. It can seem confounding but the answer is at least elegant: When the content of the post stinks, it stinks. And when a poster makes only stinky posts, they stink. Paid or not, they act the same way and they drag down conversation the same way so they should be treated the same way. The reason after all that it's nigh impossible to tell a shill from a zealous enthusiast is that they both walk and quack like a duck. The question of them getting paid is trivial in the end.
That said, in the big picture, I find that the tone and attitude of some communities have been affected over the years by the intermingling of influencers and for that I am resentful.
I agree.
It certainly doesn't help that whenever this is discussed that we have people trying to show everyone how clever they are by pointing out that they knew this all along for years but because it was so mega obvious to them that everyone should be aware of this and leaks that prove this and settlements that prove this are all for naught because you have to be a silly person to not know that everyone is a shill.
As if the argument that that something has been done once before somehow makes it okay for all eternity because some similar situation from 2004 is found.
Crayon
Member
That's right because a penny less would cut my profit entirely given my 2 cents of overhead for material furnished. I will meditate on this failure.
Good. This story stunk to high heaven when it was first announced and it's good to see that the FTC continued to investigate. Hopefully, they spend some more time looking into the ethical breaches within emerging media.
For those ragging on mainly Microsoft, this was a joint Machinima/Microsoft campaign. Both companies deserve equal scorn. Also, I want to know names. Who were the youtubers?
Edit: The FTC response is available here: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/150902machinima-cmpt.pdf (PDF)
They name names.
For those ragging on mainly Microsoft, this was a joint Machinima/Microsoft campaign. Both companies deserve equal scorn. Also, I want to know names. Who were the youtubers?
Edit: The FTC response is available here: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/150902machinima-cmpt.pdf (PDF)
They name names.
slavesnyder
Member
Problem is that you will never identify a good astroturfer.
And you will never tell a bad one from an overenthusiastic fanboy.
Exception: the guy making a thread about "stop being harsh about console XY" using his PR-mail-account or something.
In the end a mod renamed the thread "why it's not clever to make threads with PR-mail adresses".
One of my all-time favorites.
And you will never tell a bad one from an overenthusiastic fanboy.
Exception: the guy making a thread about "stop being harsh about console XY" using his PR-mail-account or something.
In the end a mod renamed the thread "why it's not clever to make threads with PR-mail adresses".
One of my all-time favorites.
The FTC's detailed response to Machinima is from today: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/150902machinima-cmpt.pdf (PDF)
maquiladora
Member
Forgot all about this.
Mine was the Macklemore thread.
Doesn't matter when it happened. Machinima got caught and are paying for it now.
This guy was paid $30,000: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheSyndicateProject/videos
From: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/150902machinima-cmpt.pdf (PDF)
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I'd lick an xbox one for $50. Get at me microsoft. We in this.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
What went down with Machinima is really, really worrying if you think about it. We should all hope this kind if shit never becomes more than isolated cases.
NoFaceNico
Member
I'm a regular reader of Polygon but their headline on this story is just plain wrong.
That is not true, a complaint was filed by the FTC today but guilt is determined later by an administrative law judge which has not happened yet.
Reading the first sentence of the FTC complaint would have told them that:
I agree the allegations seem to indicate that they'll be found guilty as sin but that hasn't happened yet and they still have the opportunity to settle the complaint before it even gets to the judge. But saying they are guilty is not accurate.
That is not true, a complaint was filed by the FTC today but guilt is determined later by an administrative law judge which has not happened yet.
Reading the first sentence of the FTC complaint would have told them that:
COMPLAINT
The Federal Trade Commission, having reason to believe that Machinima, Inc., a corporation (“Respondent”, has violated provisions of the Federal Trade Commission Act, and it appearing to the Commission that this proceeding is in the public interest, alleges:
I agree the allegations seem to indicate that they'll be found guilty as sin but that hasn't happened yet and they still have the opportunity to settle the complaint before it even gets to the judge. But saying they are guilty is not accurate.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Who cares? Were any of the people being accused even women? Don't understand why there's so much uproar.
Alebrije
Member
Well , MS will always need help about the "cloud" stuff , you should call them
-Pyromaniac-
Member
It's a lame tactic for sure but most of the blame lies on those who accepted.
Crayon
Member
Yeah that's garbage but it's been employed over the millenia because 1000 to 1 people will be more attracted to an argument delivered with authority, popularity or finality than one standing on it's actual merit of logical soundness.
Consider those fanboys who seem to work around the clock policing certain threads, making sure to "correct" points of view or realign narratives. Or those that damage control by mocking legitimate criticisms... Those posts are more often that not only ostensibly aimed at discussion participants and truly constructed for the unseen readers lurking in the present and googling in the future. If this wasn't true, platform arguments would go to pm much more often than they do. Most of us know to some degree or another that we are in some sense putting on a show for the wider lurking world, and some will act increasingly obtuse and disingenuous so as to put on the show they want.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
It's all gross.
Nah, son. Each party shares equal blame. Even the one holding the pursestrings.
machemachete
Banned
Most youtubers and gaming personas are paid to recomend products and gain most of their money of it.
But they can said whatever they want in their videos without having to be controlled by a entity who monitor their communications and their private deals.
Thats not freedom.
But they can said whatever they want in their videos without having to be controlled by a entity who monitor their communications and their private deals.
Thats not freedom.
But if they walk and quack like a duck... that means they float like one. And wood also floats. So that means they're made out of wood!
Crayon
Member
It is.
It's the freedom for consumers to make well informed decisions.
You are valuing the importance of an advertiser's ability to be disingenuous to consumers over the value of a consumer's ability to make a well informed decision.
Seeing someone use a product, love a product, and recommend a product gives the impression that a unbiased/nonpartial entity enjoyed the product. To find out that person was paid to sell the product to you without informing you that it was an advertisement will cause you to make a poorly informed decision. That's not freedom for customers to make well informed purchasing decisions.
Frankly, I find myself siding on behalf of customers over scrupleless shitbags...so I'm on the customers' side in this scenario.
I see you
Crayon
Member
I understand your flagrant bias towards consumers, because you are one. I'm in the same boat. This is why corporate ballwasher individuals are so disturbing. They seem like traitors or rogue cannibals. Monstrous, in a way.
Yeah. Honestly, cannibals might be a bit too strong. Maybe someone who only likes to eat the skin, y'know? A more acceptable or wholesome semi-cannibal.
There are only three words that I can use to describe such people: ugh
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
I wish EA and Squenix paid me for pimping Alice: Madness Returns and Nier at every possible occasion
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