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[Nealand Liquor]

I have no issues paying for Live, if I feel like I am getting value out of it. I think Sony has done well with PSN+. since you get some free stuff and access to beta's etc. I am sure if MS did that on a higher frequency, then the Live cost would see pretty reasonable.

I have both live and psn+ and I feel psn+ offers a much greater value. I care very, very little about live's chat features but I love games, so for me most of the time live feels like a gigantic waste.

However next gen I can see MS altering what is behind their paywall. There is simply too much competition on the market from every direction trying to get a piece of the livingroom media pie. Due to outside pressures from smartTV/blu-ray player, appleTV, Roku, ect, MS will have to place streaming services into the free membership side in order to remain competitive.

 

[yurinka]

It has nothing to do with Kotaku. Why there'd be much confidence in PS4 after PS3 and Vita launches, I have no idea. No matter how you look at it, Microsoft starts at a better position than Sony.

Even considering all the mistakes that Sony made, PS3 sold 70 millions after 5/6 years. With Vita, Sony learned from their mistakes from PS3 and PSP. With a pricecut announced for next year, its main issue is the 3rd party support.

It's pretty likely that if they learned from these mistakes for Vita, so they'll learn from them for PS4 too, like I assume that they'll learn something from Vita. So there won't be too high pricing, there won't be bizarre hardware too difficult and expensive to develop for, there will be crossgame chat etc. So if there is a parity on performance with 720 like PS3 and X360 had, it won't have the main issues that Vita and PS3 had, because at this point of the market the 3rd parties need multiplatform for home consoles.

For me it seems to be the more likely the case, and if this happens I'm pretty sure that PS4 will make a better job than PS3 during its first years. Specially if Live and PS+ work in the same way the next generation than in the current one. But I'm pretty sure that MS won't charge for online, Netflix, etc to compete.

 

[FStop7]

If Microsoft revived the Project Gotham name and released PGR5 as a 720 launch title my balls would explode. But I reeeaaallly doubt that will happen since Forza Horizon seems to be aimed at that niche. MS is too invested in the Forza brand to bring back PGR.

 

[yurinka]

It has nothing to do with Kotaku. Why there'd be much confidence in PS4 after PS3 and Vita launches, I have no idea. No matter how you look at it, Microsoft starts at a better position than Sony.

Even considering all the mistakes that Sony made, PS3 sold 70 millions after 5/6 years. Which is a good number when comparing it with almost all the consoles of gaming history. And still has a lot to do thanks to pricecuts, emerging markets, PS+, etc. With Vita, Sony learned from their mistakes made with PS3 and PSP. With a pricecut announced for next year, Vita's main issue now is the 3rd party support to start having good sales next year.

It's pretty likely that if they learned from these mistakes for Vita, so they'll learn from them for PS4 too, like I assume that they'll learn something from Vita too. So there won't be too high pricing, there won't be bizarre hardware too difficult and expensive to develop for, there will be crossgame chat etc. So if there is more ore less a parity on pricing and performance with 720 (as PS3 and X360 had) and will have the proper support from 3rd parties (multiplat is a must for them considering current budgets), so it won't have the main issues that Vita and PS3 had.

For me it seems to be the more likely the case, and if this happens I'm pretty sure that PS4 will make a better job than PS3 during its first years. Specially if Live and PS+ work in the same way the next generation than in the current one. But I'm pretty sure that MS won't charge for online, Netflix, etc to compete.

 

[mrklaw]

If Microsoft revived the Project Gotham name and released PGR5 as a 720 launch title my balls would explode. But I reeeaaallly doubt that will happen since Forza Horizon seems to be aimed at that niche. MS is too invested in the Forza brand to bring back PGR.

Sony doesn't have an arcade racer if motorstorm is dead. I'd love them to do a PGR game (obviously with a name change)

 

[i-Lo]

Sony doesn't have an arcade racer if motorstorm is dead. I'd love them to do a PGR game (obviously with a name change)

There's always Wipeout.

 

[Raide]

Sony doesn't have an arcade racer if motorstorm is dead. I'd love them to do a PGR game (obviously with a name change)

Metropolis Street Racer Returns!

 

[abadguy]

If Microsoft revived the Project Gotham name and released PGR5 as a 720 launch title my balls would explode. But I reeeaaallly doubt that will happen since Forza Horizon seems to be aimed at that niche. MS is too invested in the Forza brand to bring back PGR.

Only played the demo so far but Horizon felt a lot more like a PGR game than something out of the Forza series. They should just let Playground make the next PGR.

 

[Canis lupus]

If Microsoft revived the Project Gotham name and released PGR5 as a 720 launch title my balls would explode. But I reeeaaallly doubt that will happen since Forza Horizon seems to be aimed at that niche. MS is too invested in the Forza brand to bring back PGR.

I won't mind FM5 at launch!

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Can't wait for my XBox 720/Set Top box/Coffee Maker/Toaster Oven

No grille no sale.

 

[snowdog1971]

Uh oh. I love my PS3 and its exclusives are some of the best looking console games on the market, but it's no secret that I get pretty much all multiplats on the 360. If Durango is more powerful at a base level than Orbis then Sony is in REAL trouble.

Not in real trouble at all mate. If the 720 is more powerful it'll be more expensive and Sony have stronger first party IPs to shift consoles. You may find Microsoft in more trouble tbh.

And talk of the 720 being anywhere near capable of producing visuals on a par with the second most powerful PC is nonsense unless you want a console the size of a house that's going to have a fan with the decibel level of a small jet that's going to cost a fortune.

You never get a console anywhere near as powerful as a mid-range PC, let alone a top-range one. Never have done, never will do.

 

[QaaQer]

I would rather call that "motherkrunkers that had some business sense knocked into them after the colossal money pit that was the original Xbox". In other words, motherkrunkers who have learned how to keep the operation going, which is of long term benefit both to their business partners and to people who enjoy their products, since they're less likely to close the shop due to financial difficulties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya8-ZKcOhiY

 

[QaaQer]

If both came out at the same time and were equivalent in power, I'd have no hesitation in choosing the playstation. Both will have the same quality third party games and both are likely to have similar third party media services like Netflix, Hulu etc. but playstation doesnt hide things behind a paywall and seems more willing to invest in a range of first party games that interest me
.

What would you choose if say, the ps4 was slated for 6 months after 720? or (god forbid) 12 months after?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Not in real trouble at all mate. If the 720 is more powerful it'll be more expensive and Sony have stronger first party IPs to shift consoles. You may find Microsoft in more trouble tbh.

And talk of the 720 being anywhere near capable of producing visuals on a par with the second most powerful PC is nonsense unless you want a console the size of a house that's going to have a fan with the decibel level of a small jet that's going to cost a fortune.

You never get a console anywhere near as powerful as a mid-range PC, let alone a top-range one. Never have done, never will do.

Except one company makes tens of billions a year from their OS/Office factory line. The other company has serious financial issues. MS can afford to undercut the price a whole lot more than Sony can.

 

[lexi]

I think what is MEANT by the stupid '2nd most powerful PC' is the 7870 / 670.

The 690 is just 2x 680's on the one PCB, same with the 7990 being 2x 7890's on the one PCB.

 

[cartman414]

I don't know why people are expecting anything over quad cpu cores. Especially multithreaded.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I want an uncharted like experience from microsoft set in the crimson skies universe with the hero from high road.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Not in real trouble at all mate. If the 720 is more powerful it'll be more expensive and Sony have stronger first party IPs to shift consoles. You may find Microsoft in more trouble tbh.

Microsoft can afford to a hit for couple of years in order to remain price competitive should Sony sell a weaker, cheaper console. We've also seen that they're putting something like 300 million to fund core development. They definitely seem like they're in the stronger position moving into next gen.

 

[yurinka]

What would you choose if say, the ps4 was slated for 6 months after 720? or (god forbid) 12 months after?

1st party games. And maybe free online

 

[King of Cups]

All I know is that I'll probably just upgrade my computer around the time these next consoles come out, then wait around a bit to see what shakes out as far as exclusives and any issues.

Launch lineup would have to be pretty killer for me to sign up day one.

 

[ikioi]

year. We've also heard that Durango is roughly as graphically capable as the second-most powerful PC on the market today, which, yes

What a load of crap.

Honestly anyone who believes that is completely ignorant and removed from reality.

I'd love to know how Sony and Microsoft are going to cram anything close to say an AMD 7970 or Nvidia 680GTX into a console. These sorts of GPUs do not achieve yet anywhere near the yields to mass manufacturer on a console scale, they will both happily chew 200w of power on their own, and the manufacturing costs of such a complex and large die and memory would be prohibitive, and then you'd have to cool it. Sure you could cut down and customize the GPU to reduce power, increase efficency and reduce cost. But it would still be expensive, run hot, and chew power.

I doubt very very much the next Playstation and Xbox will have GPUs that even surpasses Nvidia 560TI or AMD 7750 GPU. Even those GPUs would be difficult to manufactuer, power, sell at a consumer friendly price point, and cool within a console.

Roughly as capable as the second most powerful PC on the market, such dumb ass comments really make me laugh.

I'd go so far to say that if you owned a 2-3 year old PC with something like a modern i5 and i7 and a 480GTX/5790 GPU, you've already got a PC that from a raw power pespective would thrash the next Xbox and Playstation. Where the consoles will come out and push harder is in efficiency, developers will be able to tap the consoles power a lot more then PC hardware is ever tapped. But still only a fool would believe the next Playstation and Xbox will come anywhere near the graphical quality capable on even a mid range modern i5/i7 PC with a mid range GPU like a 660Ti or 7850.

As for them being able to compete with my i7 3930k and dual 680GTX PC, no freaking way

 

[michaelius]

Which is the second most powerful PC on the market today?

It's that model which will convieniently show Kotaku was right when next gen consoles release

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

This really just boils down to Microsoft being more open about their plans to publishers. They're always a fairly leaky ship.

Sony on the other hand seems to be a lot more secretive with their plans. We really didn't know anything concrete about the Vita until it was announced. I expect the same will hold true for the PS4. I just hope that Sony announces their plans publicly fairly soon, so they can start communicating better with publishers.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

So if we're talking AMD, something in the 7800 series would be second best no?

 

[Kintaro]

Once again, these websites forget to ask the most important question: price.. The price of these consoles and if games may see.a.bump in price. This is what matters.

 

[Router]

Once again, these websites forget to ask the most important question: price.. The price of these consoles and if games may see.a.bump in price. This is what matters.

Its doubtful that developers would know the pricing strategy yet.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Once again, these websites forget to ask the most important question: price.. The price of these consoles and if games may see.a.bump in price. This is what matters.

MS will probably offer it for $199 with a 2 year contract no matter what the up front cost is. We're through the looking glass here people. .

 

[Router]

Wait, really?

Thats what I understood. I understand one of the Turn10 devs said it might be later than that in the Horizon thread though. So we'll see.

 

[AstroNut325]

Once again, these websites forget to ask the most important question: price.. The price of these consoles and if games may see.a.bump in price. This is what matters.

To me... unless the systems are priced over $799 it won't matter at all.

 

[QaaQer]

MS will probably offer it for $199 with a 2 year contract no matter what the up front cost is. We're through the looking glass here people. .

Sony has to be pretty worried about that possibility. People love dem subsidized hardware purchases. I wonder if it will be like with phones, where you get a $650 piece of hardware for $199?

 

[OccamsBlender]

I wonder if either console maker will get their head out of their arse when it comes to online store interfaces?

I know, I ask too much.

My real reason for zero confidence in Sony though...Last Guardian. WHERE IS IT?!

 

[Router]

I wonder if either console maker will get their head out of their arse when it comes to online store interfaces?

I know, I ask too much.

No doubt it will be a big focus next gen. Actually, I hope they let you pre-download so your game just unlocks on launch day rather than waiting to download.

 

[FStop7]

Sony doesn't have an arcade racer if motorstorm is dead. I'd love them to do a PGR game (obviously with a name change)

Not before Tourist Trophy 2!

Come on, Polyphony. Do that shit.

Only played the demo so far but Horizon felt a lot more like a PGR game than something out of the Forza series. They should just let Playground make the next PGR.

I'm a bit of a racing game nut, I finished most of Horizon. I liked it a lot better than Forza 4 because it was fun where Forza 4 was kind of dry. But it's all out in the open world of 'Colorado' and lacks the awesome cityscapes of PGR.

 

[GopherD]

What a load of crap.

Honestly anyone who believes that is completely ignorant and removed from reality.

I'd love to know how Sony and Microsoft are going to cram anything close to say an AMD 7970 or Nvidia 680GTX into a console. These sorts of GPUs do not achieve yet anywhere near the yields to mass manufacturer on a console scale, they will both happily chew 200w of power on their own, and the manufacturing costs of such a complex and large die and memory would be prohibitive, and then you'd have to cool it. Sure you could cut down and customize the GPU to reduce power, increase efficency and reduce cost. But it would still be expensive, run hot, and chew power.

I doubt very very much the next Playstation and Xbox will have GPUs that even surpasses Nvidia 560TI or AMD 7750 GPU. Even those GPUs would be difficult to manufactuer, power, sell at a consumer friendly price point, and cool within a console.

Roughly as capable as the second most powerful PC on the market, such dumb ass comments really make me laugh.

I'd go so far to say that if you owned a 2-3 year old PC with something like a modern i5 and i7 and a 480GTX/5790 GPU, you've already got a PC that from a raw power pespective would thrash the next Xbox and Playstation. Where the consoles will come out and push harder is in efficiency, developers will be able to tap the consoles power a lot more then PC hardware is ever tapped. But still only a fool would believe the next Playstation and Xbox will come anywhere near the graphical quality capable on even a mid range modern i5/i7 PC with a mid range GPU like a 660Ti or 7850.

As for them being able to compete with my i7 3930k and dual 680GTX PC, no freaking way

you are going to be quite surprised very soon.

 

[Elios83]

Sony has to be pretty worried about that possibility. People love dem subsidized hardware purchases. I wonder if it will be like with phones, where you get a $650 piece of hardware for $199?

Yeah consoles being sold like phones with subscriptions to services will definetly happen and be common during next gen.
Also I don't know why Sony should be worried about, Yoshida said they're considering it as well. A 2-3 years subscription to something like a next gen version of Playstation Plus would result in getting a lot of free games, exclusive network features and a huge discount on the hardware. It would be a great deal.
If anything Nintendo should be mostly concerned considering that they don't have services to use as a selling point and there is a possibility that through these deals consoles which are much more powerful than WiiU will end up being sold at similar prices.

 

[Elios83]

What a load of crap.

Honestly anyone who believes that is completely ignorant and removed from reality.

I'd love to know how Sony and Microsoft are going to cram anything close to say an AMD 7970 or Nvidia 680GTX into a console. These sorts of GPUs do not achieve yet anywhere near the yields to mass manufacturer on a console scale, they will both happily chew 200w of power on their own, and the manufacturing costs of such a complex and large die and memory would be prohibitive, and then you'd have to cool it. Sure you could cut down and customize the GPU to reduce power, increase efficency and reduce cost. But it would still be expensive, run hot, and chew power.

I doubt very very much the next Playstation and Xbox will have GPUs that even surpasses Nvidia 560TI or AMD 7750 GPU. Even those GPUs would be difficult to manufactuer, power, sell at a consumer friendly price point, and cool within a console.

Roughly as capable as the second most powerful PC on the market, such dumb ass comments really make me laugh.

I'd go so far to say that if you owned a 2-3 year old PC with something like a modern i5 and i7 and a 480GTX/5790 GPU, you've already got a PC that from a raw power pespective would thrash the next Xbox and Playstation. Where the consoles will come out and push harder is in efficiency, developers will be able to tap the consoles power a lot more then PC hardware is ever tapped. But still only a fool would believe the next Playstation and Xbox will come anywhere near the graphical quality capable on even a mid range modern i5/i7 PC with a mid range GPU like a 660Ti or 7850.

As for them being able to compete with my i7 3930k and dual 680GTX PC, no freaking way

As soon as the next gen consoles are released, hardware requirements for similar looking PC games will become so high that you'll need a new PC even if your current hardware is actually more powerful than what the next gen consoles will be. God bless PC code?

 

[lexi]

you are going to be quite surprised very soon.

He's right though.... I mean this is not a slight against the next gen consoles, what they're already doing with ancient hardware is super impressive.

I think everybody wins if these consoles are even half as powerful as they're hyped up to be, but it will take some voodoo magic to run them.

 

[Exentryk]

Wasn't Kotaku a banned source?

 

[ikioi]

you are going to be quite surprised very soon.

Why do you say that?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I shouldn't have to pay Microsoft to use my own Internet to play online. Verizon already gets my money for that.

Then don't. Vote with your wallet, not with your keyboard. And if you are already voting with your wallet then you have nothing to complain about. MS will continue to charge for online. Sony will charge for online gaming again before MS offers it for free.

 

[Router]

But still only a fool would believe the next Playstation and Xbox will come anywhere near the graphical quality capable on even a mid range modern i5/i7 PC with a mid range GPU like a 660Ti or 7850.

Debatable.

but like you said, their real power comes from the fact they are a closed system so its about getting more and more efficient as the console ages.

 

[Corky]

Then don't. Vote with your wallet.

I agree, not buying their next console or supporting the ridiculous practice of having to pay to be able to play online or use other basic functionality.

 

[gatti-man]

What a load of crap.

Honestly anyone who believes that is completely ignorant and removed from reality.

I'd love to know how Sony and Microsoft are going to cram anything close to say an AMD 7970 or Nvidia 680GTX into a console. These sorts of GPUs do not achieve yet anywhere near the yields to mass manufacturer on a console scale, they will both happily chew 200w of power on their own, and the manufacturing costs of such a complex and large die and memory would be prohibitive, and then you'd have to cool it. Sure you could cut down and customize the GPU to reduce power, increase efficency and reduce cost. But it would still be expensive, run hot, and chew power.

I doubt very very much the next Playstation and Xbox will have GPUs that even surpasses Nvidia 560TI or AMD 7750 GPU. Even those GPUs would be difficult to manufactuer, power, sell at a consumer friendly price point, and cool within a console.

Roughly as capable as the second most powerful PC on the market, such dumb ass comments really make me laugh.

I'd go so far to say that if you owned a 2-3 year old PC with something like a modern i5 and i7 and a 480GTX/5790 GPU, you've already got a PC that from a raw power pespective would thrash the next Xbox and Playstation. Where the consoles will come out and push harder is in efficiency, developers will be able to tap the consoles power a lot more then PC hardware is ever tapped. But still only a fool would believe the next Playstation and Xbox will come anywhere near the graphical quality capable on even a mid range modern i5/i7 PC with a mid range GPU like a 660Ti or 7850.

As for them being able to compete with my i7 3930k and dual 680GTX PC, no freaking way

So I'm guessing you didn't have a top of the line gaming rig in 2005 when the 360 hit because I did and the visuals of the 360 were very close to if not on par with and in some cases superior to what my PC was doing at the time.

Your mid range claim is completely false.

 

[gaming_noob]

you are going to be quite surprised very soon.

You said something was going to happen very soon, back on Dec 2. Do you work in the industry?

 

[i-Lo]

What a load of crap.

Honestly anyone who believes that is completely ignorant and removed from reality.

I'd love to know how Sony and Microsoft are going to cram anything close to say an AMD 7970 or Nvidia 680GTX into a console. These sorts of GPUs do not achieve yet anywhere near the yields to mass manufacturer on a console scale, they will both happily chew 200w of power on their own, and the manufacturing costs of such a complex and large die and memory would be prohibitive, and then you'd have to cool it. Sure you could cut down and customize the GPU to reduce power, increase efficency and reduce cost. But it would still be expensive, run hot, and chew power.

I doubt very very much the next Playstation and Xbox will have GPUs that even surpasses Nvidia 560TI or AMD 7750 GPU. Even those GPUs would be difficult to manufactuer, power, sell at a consumer friendly price point, and cool within a console.

Roughly as capable as the second most powerful PC on the market, such dumb ass comments really make me laugh.

I'd go so far to say that if you owned a 2-3 year old PC with something like a modern i5 and i7 and a 480GTX/5790 GPU, you've already got a PC that from a raw power pespective would thrash the next Xbox and Playstation. Where the consoles will come out and push harder is in efficiency, developers will be able to tap the consoles power a lot more then PC hardware is ever tapped. But still only a fool would believe the next Playstation and Xbox will come anywhere near the graphical quality capable on even a mid range modern i5/i7 PC with a mid range GPU like a 660Ti or 7850.

As for them being able to compete with my i7 3930k and dual 680GTX PC, no freaking way

Then given those graphics can manage between 30-40fps during a current gen game like BF3 what you're saying is that we will not see a generational shift beyond something like BF3 on high settings at 1080p if we are very lucky because an AMD 7750 can just about hold 30fps on BF at around 800p. OMG WE BE DOOMED!

 

[onQ123]

you are going to be quite surprised very soon.

It's like these people think that the PC games always looked better than PS3 / Xbox 360 games from the start.


as if Crysis was running on your everyday PC when the Xbox 360 came out in 2005.



I bet Xbox Next & PS4 games look better than the best looking PC game right now on a pretty good PC.

 

[quest]

So I'm guessing you didn't have a top of the line gaming rig in 2005 when the 360 hit because I did and the visuals of the 360 were very close to if not on par with and in some cases superior to what my PC was doing at the time.

Your mid range claim is completely false.

Big difference is the 360 GPU was a head of its time. It was unified shaders which added a ton of efficiency over a lot of at the time computer GPUs. This time around they will be based on the current computer GPUs. They are not going to compete on die size and TDP of a flag ship GPU. They did not last time either they did it by doing it smarter.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I agree, not buying their next console or supporting the ridiculous practice of having to pay to be able to play online or use other basic functionality.

That is the only way companies learn. If sales go down.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Will be interesting to see how powerful these systems turn out to be. I expect slow cpus sloooow ram but a very decent gpu. Coding to the metal will yield great results.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

If Microsoft revived the Project Gotham name and released PGR5 as a 720 launch title my balls would explode. But I reeeaaallly doubt that will happen since Forza Horizon seems to be aimed at that niche. MS is too invested in the Forza brand to bring back PGR.

I don't think that PGR is dead, just a couple of years ago they were looking for a studio that would continue the franchise. Horizon is quite a different game, and then there was that Zune HD PGR title as well. However, I have no idea whether it could return in time for the launch of the next console.