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[KageMaru]

I gues that's fair enough, although you bought those digital titles with your eyes open and the possibility they'd be stuck on your console - not literally, not unless you also have a Wii U

Does anyone here know if different levels of PSN/XBL titles are allowed different levels of hardware access? Eg does an XBLA/PSn title need to stick with higher level drivers?

Oh I know and agree I accepted any risk when I purchased the content. However again, I don't really care about BC. =P

I do think some consumers would be a bit more hesitant to purchase digital content next generation if they lose everything from this Gen.

Keep reading that thread, there were denials from EA Canada devs later on about direct GPU calls being passable and confirmed in a Eurogamer article.

Microsoft published the Trials HD games so it's possible RedLynx was given a 1st party exception though. Or it may be a recent policy change, but it was certainly a no go a couple years back.

You're mistaken. Yes, there were tweets from 3 years ago but just because some thing are forced through the API, that doesn't mean everything is. You don't know what changes have been made since those tweets. The API at a time was more restrictive [than the 360] on the PS3 in the beginning. Updates such as PSGL opened the hardware up. It seems like you're hanging on that article while ignoring posts such as the one below:

You use some form of API regardless of the console. Whether it's DirectX, libGCM or whatever else. On consoles these APIs are super thin and penalties are close to none (and you learn where they are not minuscule). There's no "coding to the metal" anymore, it's pretty much a myth. You'd have to build some reasonable layer on top of the "metal" anyways so instead of reinventing the wheel (and making many, many mistakes) you use the API provided. The only thing common between DirectX on Xbox 360 and PC is the look and feel of the API, but the core principals are different. There's no DXGI driver below because you don't need any abstraction for various hardware. There's no dynamic linking to the DLL - it's a static lib AFAIK and since you use WPO unneeded parts are stripped and stuff gets inlined nicely where possible. With PGO you get even more improvements. Your friend probably saw an API and assumed it's the same stack Windows has. It isn't.

There are plenty of games that use low level coding when coding for the vmx units as it's the best way to gain performance. However no matter what platform you're developing for, you'll have various levels of access to the hardware depending on what you're coding for.

 

[mrklaw]

I really think MS is going to do better than they did this gen, they have the very successful xbox live, they have a huge first party now, most of whom are making new ips, kinect 2 for for casuals and kids, and set top and other media features. The competition is not going to be as tough, the wii u will not be as successful as the wii, and Sony probably will not be going super power with their next console, the way they are bleeding money they can't afford the make a console that they don't instantly make a profit from.

They risk lack of focus. IMO at the start of a gen you push tech and core games because your machine is expensive. The people that bought kinect and a 360 a year or two back aren't in the market for something new yet. So I don't think they need to ship with kinect 2, it'd be addressing a market that isn't buying the console at launch and increasing the cost of goods.

If they want more focus on media, at this stage I almost think they need much more integration - eg searching across all installed media services like TVii should, or google TV. I'd like someone to move away from this discrete app-app-app mode of operation to a more content led way of ineracting. (That goes for all players, not just MS)

I'm not sure I want a windows 8 PC in my living room, I want a console, a CE device with quick access to what I want to do. I suppose with metro and tiles etc MS wants to bring those two things closer together, but lets see what MS can do to persuade me

 

[bigtroyjon]

If they want more focus on media, at this stage I almost think they need much more integration - eg searching across all installed media services like TVii should, or google TV. I'd like someone to move away from this discrete app-app-app mode of operation to a more content led way of ineracting. (That goes for all players, not just MS)

Bing search on the 360 already does this.

 

[Ranger X]

We'll be lucky if the next Xbox comes out in 2013 at all, seriously.

 

[Reiko]

We'll be lucky if the next Xbox comes out in 2013 at all, seriously.

Lucky is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Router]

We'll be lucky if the next Xbox comes out in 2013 at all, seriously.

Why?

 

[MrCookiepants]

Nah, microsoft will own europe this upcoming generation. I strongly believe a lot of europe has been disapointed with PS3 games and online. This will be xbox's 3rd console in europe and I think their brand will be of similar popularity as playstation was during the PS2 era.

lmfao!

 

[seattle6418]

People here are so dramatic its kind of funny. Like one move would kill the other just like that. I think it would be great if p2p mp was free and the paid service offered dedicated servers. That would be awesome.

 

[Reuenthal]

So to better understand let's translate power levels to Drangonball

It terms of power it seems it would probably be

Saiyan arc

Wii U- Yamcha
Xbox 720- Goku
PS4- Vegeta

 

[Biggzy]

Lucky is a bit of a stretch.

A bit? It's pretty much nailed on for 2013. The only reason for the next Xbox missing 2013 is if Microsoft has difficulties manufacturing the console.

 

[Zaventem]

People here are so dramatic its kind of funny. Like one move would kill the other just like that. I think it would be great if p2p mp was free and the paid service offered dedicated servers. That would be awesome.

but then we wouldn't have console wars and those are exciting as fuck.

 

[Reiko]

A bit? It's pretty much nailed on for 2013. The only reason for the next Xbox missing 2013 is if Microsoft has difficulties manufacturing the console.

That's what I meant. I worded it wrong.

 

[Biggzy]

That's what I meant. I worded it wrong.

I know what you meant. I am just emphasising it for the few people who still doubt that the next Xbox is coming out next year.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

So to better understand let's translate power levels to Drangonball

It terms of power it seems it would probably be

Saiyan arc

Wii U- Yamcha
Xbox 720- Goku
PS4- Vegeta

by the hopes and dreams of MS fan boys sure

 

[Übermatik]

If you aren't interested in any of the sony or ms exclusives (which is the true differentiating factor) like the overwhelming majority here this should be a very easy decision.

Yeah I'm not. I enjoy Halo and I like the Killzone games, but it's not enough to sway me I don't think. Unless a game comes out that makes me think 'wow, I really want to play that'. We'll see.

 

[nelsonroyale]

A bit? It's pretty much nailed on for 2013. The only reason for the next Xbox missing 2013 is if Microsoft has difficulties manufacturing the console.

Well, it wouldn't be wrong for them to want to make extra sure that their consoles don't have any crippling faults or issues, considering the debacle with 360 RRoD this gen.

 

[Reiko]

by the hopes and dreams of MS fan boys sure

Vegeta beat Goku twice.

 

[DragonSworne]

So to better understand let's translate power levels to Drangonball

It terms of power it seems it would probably be

Saiyan arc

Wii U- Gohan
Xbox 720- Goku
PS4- Vegeta

Wii U is architecturally closer to PS4 and Xbox 720 than human vs saiyan. So I think this is a better comparison.

 

[Reiko]

Wii U is architecturally closer to PS4 and Xbox 720 than human vs saiyan. So I think this is a better comparison.

Namek Gohan is a better reference. Saiyan Saga Gohan was weaksauce.

 

[gaming_noob]

by the hopes and dreams of MS fan boys sure

Well done Dr. Obvious. Which fanboy group would prefer their console of choice to be weaker than the competition?

 

[gofreak]

People here are so dramatic its kind of funny. Like one move would kill the other just like that. I think it would be great if p2p mp was free and the paid service offered dedicated servers. That would be awesome.

Hyperbole will get ever more concentrated over the next year.

Anyone who was around through the first couple of years of this gen should be more easily able to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[cws]

Wii U is architecturally closer to PS4 and Xbox 720 than human vs saiyan. So I think this is a better comparison.

WiiU - so much potential. Gohan fits well, especially when we see game that really pushes the system like the next 3D Mario title.

 

[Reiko]

WiiU - so much potential. Gohan fits well, especially when we see game that really pushes the system like the next 3D Mario title.

So Mystic Gohan at the end of Wii U's cycle?

 

[Chuck Norris]

WiiU is closer to Raditz

 

[Barack Lesnar]

WiiU - so much potential. Gohan fits well, especially when we see game that really pushes the system like the next 3D Mario title.

Since we know the specs being so low I'd say the potential isn't there so Piccolo might be a better comparison. Although there was that one story arc where he became super Piccolo (3D Mario?) and held his own vs. Cell, but eventually lost.

 

[kingkaiser]

Wii U is architecturally closer to PS4 and Xbox 720 than human vs saiyan. So I think this is a better comparison.

Yeah, but measured by the performance of the Operating System this

would be the best comparison of a Dragon Ball character to the WiiU.

 

[Dr. Feel Good]

I didn't watch Dragonball as a kid, can someone put that in terms of Pokemon?

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Want to bet your account on it?

can't say i'm surprised for a reply like this from you. you don't even need to stay on top of sales figures, but just go into a pal charts thread and see how ps3 and 360 games are doing across all europe.

 

[milsorgen]

So to better understand let's translate power levels to Drangonball

It terms of power it seems it would probably be

Saiyan arc

Wii U- Yamcha
Xbox 720- Goku
PS4- Vegeta

Wii U would be more akin to Piccolo. With the 3DS being Yamcha and the Vita being Tien.

 

[dragonelite]

So Mystic Gohan at the end of Wii U's cycle?

Nah more like Tien.

 

[Represent.]

Vegeta beat Goku twice.

Majin Vegeta and....? He got smacked the first time lol

 

[gaming_noob]

Nextbox is 2013 LA Dodgers
PS4 is 2013 Miami Marlins

 

[Mrbob]

Why is it more desirable for your digital purchases to be BC than your physical discs? Surely digital is primarily a different delivery mechanism bringing convenient access.

If its not BC on 720/PS4 then I'd guess that would apply to all games? And like physical, digital will still work on your current console.

If MS stay with IBM for the CPU they might be able to pull off BC, but if they go AMD then it might not be doable. Sony is much less likely if they don't have cell and switch from nvidia to AMD for the GPU

The GPU switch shouldn't be that hard to overcome, but yeah, Cell could be a problem. Wonder if Sony will sell a BC box that attaches to your PS4.

 

[Derrick01]

Nextbox is 2013 LA Dodgers
PS4 is 2013 Miami Marlins

Are you trying to say the next xbox will be overpriced and overrated?

 

[Reiko]

Majin Vegeta and....? He got smacked the first time lol

When he turned Great Ape.

 

[Jadedx]

Nextbox is 2013 LA Dodgers
PS4 is 2013 Miami Marlins

NextBox is the 2012 Miami Heat
Ps3 is the 2013 LA Lakers

 

[1-D_FTW]

Are you trying to say the next xbox will be overpriced and overrated?

They're both baseball teams. Maybe he's saying consoles really are dead and nobody is going to care about either one.

 

[Represent.]

When he turned Great Ape.

fine. he didnt really win as Majin vegeta though. that was a cheap blow, he cheated. Goku could've gone SSJ3 too.

 

[Gorillaz]

NextBox is the 2012 Miami Heat
Ps3 is the 2013 LA Lakers

So basically nextbox will choke for the majority of its lifetime and barely win against a rookie console while ps3 is lost trying to find out who will continue its legacy.

 

[TouchMyBox]

So next-gen is the same as current gen except Microsoft and Nintendo swapped release dates.

 

[Jadedx]

So basically nextbox will choke for the majority of its lifetime and barely win against a rookie console while ps3 is lost trying to find out who will continue its legacy.

A win is a win is a win.

 

[Donnie]

Eight times 360? 1.7tflop (just below HD8750 level) GPU, 4GB RAM for games (2GB more for OS?) and 8 core 1.6ghz Jaguar CPU. Sounds like what we've heard for a while, overall could certainly be considered 8x 360 (CPU not quite there but the GPU is more than enough to make up the difference).

But roughly as capable as the second most powerful PC on the market?, not technically, far far from it. They could say that if you produce an exclusive game that plays perfectly to the strengths of the console it can output something comparable to that and they'd very probably be right, but its not something you'll see in the average PS4/Xbox3 game.

 

[seattle6418]

Maybe our current market isnt ready to utilize crazy 4-5 TFLOPS tech just now. Maybe we cant have (other than GT) games taking 3-4 years to come out. I believe 2-3 TFLOPS will be enough because devs need to learn what to do with so much power. It always takes time.

 

[i-Lo]

Maybe our current market isnt ready to utilize crazy 4-5 TFLOPS tech just now. Maybe we cant have (other than GT) games taking 3-4 years to come out. I believe 2-3 TFLOPS will be enough because devs need to learn what to do with so much power. It always takes time.

Then at least let's hope we'll get to over 2.0 tf because the oldest ps4 rumour puts its output at 1.8 tf (which I hope is outdated and in need of rectification). As for xbox 3 I've no idea.

 

[Persona86]

Nextbox is 2013 LA Dodgers
PS4 is 2013 Miami Marlins

Somebody please translate this to British English.

 

[MikeE21286]

Somebody please translate this to British English.

Xbox trying to be the most expensive.

PlayStation trying to learn the hard lessons from trying to be the most expensive

 

[Der Flatulator]

Are we still trusting that old document that leaked regarding the '720'?

Either way - Power is good. I like power.

 

[El_Chino]

Somebody please translate this to British English.

Xbox 720 is Liverpool

PS4 is Nottingham Forest

 

[Captain Tuttle]

But what will the games cost? $60? $70? $80?

 

[VariantX]

But what will the games cost? $60? $70? $80?

If we go back to $80 games again, I'm bowing out on consoles for a good while until half the library ends up in the bargain bin.