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[TsunamiOfSwagger]

https://twitter.com/KazHiraiCEO/status/710885259454377985

Gold.

 

[vcc]

I guess... I was kinda filling in the blanks with stuff being similar to MS' suggested approach. However, there's nothing about this that sounds 32X like so far at all. The 32X wasn't a more powerful Genesis. It was a basically a console that lived on top of a console, and had like 5 worthwhile games in its life.

So far no one is confirmed to be taking that approach just vague allusions to maybe. But the intrinsic business problem of convincing devs/publishers and convincing consumers is the insurmountable road block.

The console cycle is ~6-7 years because the devs/publishers business cycle and consumers desire to move is around there.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Maybe that is the reason PSVR is coming in october....

 

[Fushichou187]

If a more powerful iteration of the PS4 hits the market and you have games that are "only playable on PS4.5" then it seems at that point just call it a PS5 and have it fully backwards compatible. You'll at least avoid a nightmare scenario with uninformed consumers buying something that won't run on their machine at home.

I dont have to buy it.

I have control.

Also, this.

 

[Sanke__]

Nope. You have the USB ports and the HDMI ports and that is it. Nothing fast enough to handle the bandwidth requirements of a better GPU and CPU. Not like an old school consoles that had those "expansion ports". Thunderbolt has the bandwidth to handle it, but USB does not.

What about where the hard drive plugs in then having a hard drive through usb?

It would make it look like a Frankenstein console but could it work?

 

[jmdajr]

oh yeah?

 

[protomouse]

i feel like jeff rigby mentioned something about this at one point

I believe he was referring to 4K Blu-Ray, which I don't think will require a hardware update. It's a bit hard to decipher his posts sometimes.

Anyway, I fully support this move.

 

[Faustek]

i feel like jeff rigby mentioned something about this at one point

hmm, I'm not sure you remember right.
As I remember it it was how Sony was implementing, on software level, for PS3 to play 4k video and the PS4 had it in the hardware but it was not just the ability to play 4k video content but support for the codecs/drm that will follow.
Then again, I might remember wrong as well. Only thing I know is that it's really interesting to read hos threads.

 

[hodayathink]

Supposing Xbox One+ releases in 2017, why don't Sony wait for 2018 and release a more powerful PS5 to have the upperhand for another generation?

Let Microsoft deal with the problems of launching mid gen. Xbox One+ wouldn't have real next gen games made for it because that would piss OG XBO users off, and there wouldn't be enough XBO+s out there to justify games taking advantage of it's power.
Then, before XBO+ reaches a big enough userbase, Sony could release a more powerful PS5 which is backwards compatible with the PS4 just in time for the first next gen games.

It makes sense to me.

Look at what happened the last time Sony let Microsoft get a 1 year head start and Sony had far and away the best selling console on the market.

 

[texore]

I'd want one.

 

[EventHorizon]

This was obviously going to happen and I called it over 2 years ago. I'm taking my victory lap as well as saying that it is a smart move by both Sony and Microsoft to offer incremental upgrades.

Actually I have this crazy theory that MS will do just that. They'll come out with an improved SKU that has more hardware capabilities. Devs will be required to support both SKUs, but that shouldn't be hard since the new SKU will have a similar architecture just better specs. Games on the new SKU would be able to run at greater resolution and image quality, better FPS, and/or support VR.

It'll be just like PC development now except with only two configurations to target. In fact I expect Sony to do the same. I think the industry has now standardised on X86 design so all future releases will simply improve on that architecture. Backwards compatibility will be a given.

 

[Hurricane43]

Wow at so called gamers saying no.... This should be in the ready for this holiday for us gamers that want 4K gaming.. I work hard and will purchase hard to enjoy my down time.... Enough of the 1080P,we are in 2016...

If tt costs 500-600 to upgrade or whatever, at least we have a choice and would be day 1...

 

[LostDonkey]

The only word I have is "wow".

First Microsoft talk of incremental upgrades and now Sony apparently have.

If this is where consoles are headed I'm just gonna sell my Xbox and put the money towards upgrading my PC some more.

 

[The Elite]

If this is the future I think I'm done with multi console gaming. Maybe if Nintendo sticks to the usual gen stuff I will grab that.


If both Sony and MS go down this path there can only be one for me.

 

[ironcreed]

and here I just got a ps4 thinking I was ok on the console front for a few years. guess I shouldn't be surprised, gen is already running on fumes

I just sold my old one and upgraded to the all matte version. I plan to enjoy it for a few more years as well, just as I would if they were not doing this. Because they are not abandoning the system and the games will still be releasing for it. You do not have to buy the upgrade right away.

 

[The Artisan]

The article states its now so common knowledge around devs at this point thay people are just walking around GDC talking about it.

So if accurate then yeah, its not so much a secret anymore

i don't like this, man. i don't fucking like this.

 

[Croatoan]

If a more powerful iteration of the PS4 hits the market and you have games that are "only playable on PS4.5" then it seems at that point just call it a PS5 and have it fully backwards compatible. You'll at least avoid a nightmare scenario with uninformed consumers buying something that won't run on their machine at home.




Also, this.

There is absolutely no reason for "Only Playable on PS4.5" unless the dev hates money. Those that upgrade will be niche.

Wow at so called gamers saying no.... This should be in the ready for this holiday for us gamers that want 4K gaming.. I work hard and will purchase hard to enjoy my down time.... Enough of the 1080P,we are in 2016...

If tt costs 500-600 to upgrade or whatever, at least we have a choice and would be day 1...

I bet my PS4.6 has 10% more Flops than what you paid for!

 

[thuway]

If this is true, this isn't some myopic nitwitted decision that only Sony decided on. Publishers need to be on board for this to make a lick of sense. Higher resolutions, better framerates, and "modest" performance boosts sound good on paper. The real question I have is, will Sony alienate the PS4 altogether? Or will they begin treating their consoles as a multi-tiered platform with targeted specs/resolutions/framerates?

Also GAF is an emotional roller coaster today. O_O Jeeze.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Consoles are going the way of PCs as predicted. The obly differientiator is going to be software and ecosystem eventually

And shit with cross compatible online beig considered?

I wonder if we are seeing industry slowly abandoning exclusive hardware altogether at some point

 

[Auto-Reply]

"Let me pitch you this... horse armor... but for hardware!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfESWR7gBs

 

[Tarin02543]

I want VR but I do not want to buy a new PC

This might be for me

 

[Mr. RHC]

The world is ever changing.

V has come to.

 

[Romir]

I was already planning on buying the inevitable new PS4 model that supports HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 for BluRay UHD. All the better if they can put a faster 16nm APU in it instead of only modifying the old one. Everything running at least 1080p is extremely important for me as I have a dedicated room with projectors.

4k gaming doesn't have to only mean an ironclad 3840x2160 internal resolution. We could see games rendered with only the full vertical resolution .An example being 2560x2160. That saves the rendering of 2.8m pixels yet is still a 2.7x jump in pixels over 1080p. That seems somewhat attainable compared to the full 4x jump. Or we could see titles going "half-way" with 2560x1440p for a 1.8x jump. That is certainly possible for AAA titles with a new 16nm APU.

Another thing to keep in mind is that in general, people aren't going to get the full benefit of the UHD resolution without giant TVs and close viewing distances anyway. That's why they HDR was added to the specs. Testing indicated it made a bigger improvement to the picture. AMD is adding support for HDR to future gpus so it should also appear in this new model as a new feature games could support.

 

[Pop]

4K setup would cost quite a bit. I don't think Sony would chase the 1% market.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Supposing Xbox One+ releases in 2017, why don't Sony wait for 2018 and release a more powerful PS5 to have the upperhand for another generation?

Let Microsoft deal with the problems of launching mid gen. Xbox One+ wouldn't have real next gen games made for it because that would piss OG XBO users off, and there wouldn't be enough XBO+s out there to justify games taking advantage of it's power.
Then, before XBO+ reaches a big enough userbase, Sony could release a more powerful PS5 which is backwards compatible with the PS4 just in time for the first next gen games.

It makes sense to me.

I think you are underestimating the leap in power a new console could provide with a release of say holiday 2017. With the advancement of 14nm, I would predict we could easilly see consoles in the 4 - 5 teraflop range. Significantly better than what we have now. Also PC multiplats are already taking advantage of much more powerful hardware.

Of course as you say, they could both start playing a cat and mouse game. Who knows!

why would sony be worried? nobody flocked to xbox just because it was more powerful.

That's a really poor analogy. The original Xbox brute forced it's way into the industry at a time where Sony were at the height of it's power. It was never going to simply overtake the market. Only 2 years ago, Xbox was joint market leader. A new console from them now that's much better than a PS4 is a whole different argument. Also see above.

Even if MS launches a new Xbox more powerful than PS4, I don't see PS4 sales slowing down. It's too late, Sony has the momentum, everyone is on PS4, all your friends are on PS4, you're not gonna switch for just extra power.

This would be effectively starting a new generation though, with much better hardware. The consumer options once again reset. also see above!

 

[wonderful103]

Consoles are going the way of PCs as predicted. The obly differientiator is going to be software and ecosystem eventually

And the fact that console gaming costs you more, and it's not modular, and you're paying for services, and you're locked to only one ecosystem. But yeah.

 

[dh4niel]

I guess 4K sounds better than 60fps. Even though it isn't.

 

[Crayon]

So far no one is confirmed to be taking that approach just vague allusions to maybe. But the intrinsic business problem of convincing devs/publishers and convincing consumers is the insurmountable road block.

The console cycle is ~6-7 years because the devs/publishers business cycle and consumers desire to move is around there.

This. Playing the same games in 4k seems like an incremental upgrade for many people.

If there is enough people clamoring for 4k games then sure, release this. But as some point there need to be a cutoff. A true ps5 with games not possible on ps4.

I guess if true ps5 is farther away than we have been assuming, then 4.5 could come out in two years.

 

[Gurrry]

It'll have as much support as the New 3ds is getting exclusive games. It won't. Unless it really is as simple as devs pushing a button to make their existing 900p30 games play in 4k60.

dont forget about all those wii motion + games too.

and that was an even smaller incremental upgrade than what sony is asking

i wont even be buying a 4k tv until cable companies start actually broadcasting channels in 4k

 

[Markoman]

The console business doesn't work this way. Mid gen power upgrades are ignored by publishers because the publishers/devs don't have a great incentive to target it. The install base is too small. A lack of support means consumers don't want it. As hardware is not the ends, it's a means to an end for most console consumers.

It's a catch 22.

Generation shifts work because the platform holder shoves all the devs to the next platform. Saying old one is done, game sales have dropped to almost zero. Make games for the new one.

Without that shove and the consumers actually moving over the product is just a different and often more expensive SKU which everyone ignores. From the NEW 3DS to PSP+ to DSi to Gameboy color to TG duo etc... It's never worked out.

Also making a game and having it scale for 2 different targets takes work.

Once again vcc, I totally agree with you on this topic.
I somehow get the feeling that this whole recent upgrade talk is nothing but a nice little game of poker. Both MS and Sony are looking at possibilities how to handle console business in the future. Like I've said before, if MS announces a XboxOne.5, Sony will follow: this is the last step of transforming consoles into affordable PCs.

Edit: makes all complete sense now - MS and Sony are going back to the old-school 5 year cycles with PC-oriented hardware upgrades and architecture - we definetely won't see another Cell CPU.

 

[vcc]

Except the same publishers do fine with PCs (certain WB games excluded) somehow and have done that for many years. It didn't work before because freaking console architecture kept changing. With x86 and same APIs/OS, it's a lot more simple.

Even on PC's many fall flat and some stay away because doing it right requires a lot more effort than most consoles. It seems about half of PC ports have issues.

x86 isn't magic, to get things to run well on a variety of hardware takes work. Blizzard does it well but many don't.

The way it works on iOS/android is they aim low. I don't think that'd be acceptable or fulfill the reason why some folks want this. Even on iOS/android the supported phones each require attention.

 

[FinalStageBoss]

Wow at so called gamers saying no.... This should be in the ready for this holiday for us gamers that want 4K gaming.. I work hard and will purchase hard to enjoy my down time.... Enough of the 1080P,we are in 2016...

If tt costs 500-600 to upgrade or whatever, at least we have a choice and would be day 1...

4k gaming will cost you a lot more than 500.

 

[link1201]

I want to believe.

 

[Pound_lb003]

Man, I hate this Sony.

Can we stop fragmenting PS4 game development?

First party studios will have to focus between PS4, PS4.5 and VR? Time for bed, Sony.

 

[DrROBschiz]

And the fact that console gaming costs you more, and it's not modular, and you're paying for services, and you're locked to only one ecosystem. But yeah.

Actually its more like a merger honestly

 

[cr_blah_blah]

I feel like the console gamer motto should be "I want everything better. I want nothing to change."

 

[Dennis]

Amazing news if true.

Could be a good VR jump-on point for a lot of people.

 

[Bluenoser]

I wonder if the extra horsepower will help run current games better, if the resolution stays at 1080p (I don't have a 4k TV).

But I don't understand why this move is necessary unless they feel threatened by MS potentially one-upping them.

Oh and the success will probably be heavily dependent on whether it's an upgrade or a new SKU. As long as they don't segregate the userbase.

 

[jono51]

Not buying it. I think this is just chinese whispers of people mishearing that Sony will be releasing a "4K output" patch for the PS4. This has long been rumoured for anyone who has been following the patent and technology trail. Things have been set in motion as early as 2010 when plans were drawn up for the GTK PS3 web browser update for a 4k update and it seems like its finally upon us. Sony are always ahead of the game on things like this so there will be a HDMI port firmware update later this year that enables the 4K.

 

[Zedox]

So Zedox, here we meet again
Like I've said in the Xbox Upgrade thread...Sony will react.
Here we are, I'm still very surprised by the news and we can't even say for sure who started this (maybe MS got some info beforehand and started the whole upgrade talk).

To push VR this makes absolutely sense, because the PS4 can't handle
AAA games @ 2X1080p + >60FPS

As a PS4 owner I stand by my point, the console upgrade idea made the Xbox even less attractive to me and now the PS4X follows the same path. I have built a new PC some days ago and I can see myself not owning consoles in the future now.

Hello my friend.
I don't think it matters (and I'm sure you agree) about who started the talk. Like others have stated (I think I did here...I can't remember) but it absolutely makes sense for VR. I believe I said MS would make a dual GPU, 4k capable machine (Pro device) and have a regular (single gpu) non 4k device (but probably 1080p) regular device. It would follow suit with their Surface, and Surface Pro stuff. These things will be expensive and target different users.

Yea, I can see why going PC gaming would make sense with this. I just like it because it still gives you the choice of when to upgrade your hardware (if they did yearly or whatever). Most games will still be playable on the older hardware (at least for a couple years) so there's no reason to be mad. If it's 6 years down the road and you haven't upgraded...then bleh. I think MS is in a better position PC wise (unless PS does do a UWP version of the PS platform and have an ecosystem on PC...which I would be all for) because they can get their exclusives sold on both platforms whereas Sony doesn't have that currently.

Granted most of what I said is speculation. But as you already know, I wasn't surprised by this news one bit. I figured this would happen (and as you said you did say before). You know I just find this thread hilarious. Good times. Like I said before...E3 will be interesting.

 

[Symphonia]

They better off a free or reduced upgrade to current PS4 owners, or I can see Sony losing a LOT of customers.

 

[Ooccoo]

I think this will seal the fate of console gaming.

If you need to upgrade, it's no better than an expensive PC.

 

[dalin80]

Worst possible idea since the Xbone reveal?... why yes, yes it would be.

 

[thuway]

Also everyone in here dreaming about a 4K 60 FPS future need to get their heads checked. 4K 30 FPS is a possibility with huge sacrifices even on PCs that are far more powerful than PS4.

The "cooler" news is that 14 nm and HBM memory are going to become a reality in these consoles. Hardware should see a modest boost in performance.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Lmao

 

[The God]

Man, I hate this Sony.

Can we stop fragmenting PS4 game development?

First party studios will have to focus between PS4, PS4.5 and VR? Time for bed, Sony.

I didn't even think about this.

 

[Stike]

Do you really have an attachment to your current console? They are just x86 pcs. If you have back compat and don't lose saves why do you care about your console.

This isn't the old days. These boxes aren't special anymore.

You get shipped a new one with a return box for the old. If you fail to return it within a timely manner they either charge your card or brick the new box.

Great, so you are okay with your abandoned copy of P.T. getting deleted?
Brick the new box? You mean they could just disable the device you *purchased* games on?

Yeah, a great future - if you like owning only what companies like you to own and don't care if you lose what you paid for whenever you stop paying.

 

[Peterpan]

I think technology is moving too fast, before we got consoles that could last years because when they came out they outpaced PC hardware, now for consoles to outpace PC hardware, they going to cost a fortune. I think this is needed for that exact reason. Consoles are outdated faster than ever if we get a 300$ console every two or three years, then people can choose when to upgrade I think it can work. I am still unsettled about it, because this is not what I'm used to. Been a specific way for many years, so I'm still not sure if this is the right way from a person who has been mainly a console gamer my whole life.

 

[wonderful103]

They better off a free or reduced upgrade to current PS4 owners, or I can see Sony losing a LOT of customers.

No. This is just replacing the model that's on store shelves. Nobody (Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo) is losing customers by replacing stock.

 

[M.D]

Have we seen any advancements from AMD suggesting there's an APU that exists today (or will in the near future) that would be powerful enough to play games at 4K and fit in a console sized box?

^

Would like an answer to this