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[mattiewheels]

After these past couple of days, to see some honest to god journalism about the industry is fantastic.

One of the telling parts in the piece of how desperate Dyack is in meetings, is how heavy-handed he is about Eternal Darkness as his calling card. Now that everyone who made that game is gone, can he still play that card?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The hype machine, such as it was, for X-Men Destiny seemed to push it as Mass Effect X-Men, which is honestly a cool concept that maybe someone who gave a damn should have tried to do.

 

[Chemo]

I'll tell you what went wrong with that X-Men game.

Silicon Knights made it.

Horrible developer. Started as the textbook definition of mediocre, and managed to hit a really nasty downhill slide where they have just gone from middling to bad to terrible to bottom-tier. I wish everyone who works/worked at Silicon Knights the best, but they've never made anything that was a classic, and their output has gotten worse and worse.

 

[Ridley327]

Does this mean we won't get too human 2 and 3? Aww, I want to know how the story ends. You wait nearly a decade for a game and then they don't bother finishing the story. It's advent rising all over again.

I think we've known that the trilogy wasn't going to happen when the sales came in.

But hey, at least Dyack can crow about the fastest downloaded demo record, or whatever it was that was supposed to impress people who weren't digging the game.

 

[Ravidrath]

The most horrible part is his wife being the HR person, holy shit that is shady.

I don't think this is the first company I've heard of with the wife as the HR person, but it's definitely the biggest.

And, yeah... with a boss as problematic as this, having their wife as the HR person effectively means that there's no one to go to when things inevitably go wrong.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Against.

Wait.

He said video game forums are hurting society?

 

[Minion101]

I always love to see inside info like this.

 

[IrishNinja]

yeah, wow - this is a good article, props to kotaku. really interesting/disheartening to see what became of a studio a lot of us used to love, but at least this fills in all the blanks.

The hype machine, such as it was, for X-Men Destiny seemed to push it as Mass Effect X-Men, which is honestly a cool concept that maybe someone who gave a damn should have tried to do.

considering how many games i bought that just recycled the x-men legends engine + a bit more fan service, yeah, id be day 1 for a competent take on this

 

[StuBurns]

Wait.

He said video game forums are hurting society?

Dyack is the worst kind of creator. He's wholly talentless, believes he's a genius, and puts the blame on everyone but himself for his failings.

Everyone was blamed for Too Human, EGM, Mark MacDonald specifically, NeoGAF, Epic, it's just endless bullshit to excuse the fact he was pumping cash into that garbage for a decade before it was stillborn. His attack on GAF was an embarrassment.

 

[Clay Davis]

I think we've known that the trilogy wasn't going to happen when the sales came in.

But hey, at least Dyack can crow about the fastest downloaded demo record, or whatever it was that was supposed to impress people who weren't digging the game.

It's sad really. The game had its fault, but I truly believe that with some help from Microsoft, the game could have been developed into a good Sci fi trilogy.

Arrogance appears to have played a major part in silicon knights downfall. Such a waste.

 

[Ravidrath]

Dyack is the worst kind of creator. He's wholly talentless, believes he's a genius, and puts the blame on everyone but himself for his failings.

Everyone was blamed for Too Human, EGM, Mark MacDonald specifically, NeoGAF, Epic, it's just endless bullshit to excuse the fact he was pumping cash into that garbage for a decade before it was stillborn. His attack on GAF was an embarrassment.

Haha, what did he blame Mark McDonald for?

 

[Ridley327]

It's sad really. The game had its fault, but I truly believe that with some help from Microsoft, the game could have been developed into a good Sci fi trilogy.

Arrogance appears to have played a major part in silicon knights downfall. Such a waste.

You know, I always felt bad for MS in the whole Epic vs. SK situation. They couldn't do anything publically, and yet who would you have sided with: the company that's constantly missing deadlines, or the guys you built your hardware around in the first place to deliver one of the biggest exclusives in their roster?

 

[StuBurns]

Haha, what did he blame Mark McDonald for?

The game was playable at an E3. That year EGM had decided they were going to 'review' the demos, instead of attempting to give objective commentary on the playable games, in an attempt to give people a more tactile impression of E3.

Because they weren't real reviews, they weren't assigned scores, they were assigned words, and 'Terrible' was the lowest score, and Mark gave Too Human a terrible. Dyack used this as a jumping off point for his critique on the structure of the media/publisher relationship, and specifically stated Mark's article about the demo had repercussions for the company.

 

[PBalfredo]

I'd bet money that the only reason they weren't cancelled is because Activison's deal with Marvel is similar to Sony's movie deal with Marvel, where they have to use the property X times every Y years or they will loose the license. So Activision couldn't cancel SK's game without risk loosing the deal with Marvel, which is why they forced SK to push out the game by releasing the trailer. In any other situation I can't see Activision putting up with a situation that bad without pulling the plug. I wonder if SK banked on this to get their extensions?

 

[Ridley327]

The game was playable at an E3. That year EGM had decided they were going to 'review' the demos, instead of attempting to give objective commentary on the playable games, in an attempt to give people a more tactile impression of E3.

Because they weren't real reviews, they weren't assigned scores, they were assigned words, and 'Terrible' was the lowest score, and Mark gave Too Human a terrible. Dyack used this as a jumping off point for his critique on the structure of the media/publisher relationship, and specifically stated Mark's article about the demo had repercussions for the company.

Wasn't that the crazy plan where nobody would be allowed to preview the game until after it hit store shelves? I can't remember all the details of Dyack's plan, due to it making me a bit stupid after reading it.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I will confidently say that Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen is a great game, and definitely what I would consider a classic. I thought Silicon Knights were truly a fantastic developer with a signature style of content.

When Eternal Darkness with Nintendo as producer came to fruition. I just could not believe at what a fantastic prospect this union could be.

Eternal Darkness was released, and i came away a bit disappointed but still felt it was a quality product.

Fast forward to Too Human and X-Men Destiny and all the side court drama and canceled projects. What is going on here? Is Dennis Dyack really this proverbial cancer that kills everything he touches?

 

[Parallax Scroll]

Not quite as depressing as what happened to the first studio that was created from the initial culling at Retro.


This was done by Top Heavy Studios, which was founded by Retro's original founder, Jeff Spanenberg. It was their first and only game.

The game was also recalled after they found out one of the girls was underage.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Wasn't that the crazy plan where nobody would be allowed to preview the game until after it hit store shelves? I can't remember all the details of Dyack's plan, due to it making me a bit stupid after reading it.

He had a chart wherein a game would be announced, nothing would be shown until it was finished, then it would be released six months after being finished with those six months being used for previews and marketing.

Basically he wanted to kill the industry.

 

[KingFire]

Also interesting:

Dyack holds three degrees: two in Computer Science and one in Physical Education. It's the latter qualification that shines through, according to former employees. "He runs his company like a high school gym class or football team," one said. "He sets examples of those who offend him. He is incapable of celebrating others' successes. He is irrationally competitive to a fault; for example, he has to sue Epic Games and gloat about it online . [In his mind] you're either for him, or against him."

Sounds familiar....

 

[Nome]

He had a chart wherein a game would be announced, nothing would be shown until it was finished, then it would be released six months after being finished with those six months being used for previews and marketing.

Basically he wanted to kill the industry.

That's entirely understandable, TBH. I've often felt the same way. It's so rare you're ever able to show off a finished product, and gamers are incredibly quick to judge.

 

[Jarmel]

I'll tell you what went wrong with that X-Men game.

Silicon Knights made it.

Horrible developer. Started as the textbook definition of mediocre, and managed to hit a really nasty downhill slide where they have just gone from middling to bad to terrible to bottom-tier. I wish everyone who works/worked at Silicon Knights the best, but they've never made anything that was a classic, and their output has gotten worse and worse.

Come the fuck on. That's not true. Let's not do revisionist history and exclude Eternal Darkness.

 

[StuBurns]

He had a chart wherein a game would be announced, nothing would be shown until it was finished, then it would be released six months after being finished with those six months being used for previews and marketing.

Basically he wanted to kill the industry.

Indeed. There is some value to the idea of all media and impressions released from games being from gold code, but the concept of the way he wanted to get to that point was unrealistic. It's true the media have, over recent years, taken to being more critical of demos, and maybe that's more questionable, as they're often smoke and mirrors, or very rough, and how they might all end in the same place, but the way they get there is different, and the media should be tolerant of that.

People could argue that the press are at fault, they shouldn't be critical of demos, but even if they're not, the public will be. The industry is slowly righting this themselves though, games while still not announced post-submission, are generally announced much closer to release. We will see that trend continue next-generation, hopefully.

The obvious downside however, is demos make games better. Impressions help the developers get feedback at a stage in development where the feedback can be valuable. I believe at the time this all happened, Shane from EGM gave the example of Zelda TP for Wii, Nintendo brought it to E3, convinced the controls were great, but people hated them, so Nintendo changed them.

 

[hitmon]

I'll tell you what went wrong with that X-Men game.

Silicon Knights made it.

Horrible developer. Started as the textbook definition of mediocre, and managed to hit a really nasty downhill slide where they have just gone from middling to bad to terrible to bottom-tier. I wish everyone who works/worked at Silicon Knights the best, but they've never made anything that was a classic, and their output has gotten worse and worse.

This..As soon as I found out they were making the game, I knew it was going to be bad.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

Come the fuck on. That's not true. Let's not do revisionist history and exclude Eternal Darkness.

It's revisionist to sing ED's praises when it was a huge pile of shit to begin with. What a fiercely ugly little game it was.
I'm glad SK is essentially dead. They couldn't make a nice looking 3D model if their lives depended upon it.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Come the fuck on. That's not true. Let's not do revisionist history and exclude Eternal Darkness.

Didn't they also have their hands in the development of Blood Omen?

Damned classic goodness right there...

 

[NullPointer]

This small, but vocal misconception needs to stop.

Under a giant pile of smoldering mediocre and a litany of bad decisions, the game still had its moments, and unique ones at that. Things like dashing between hordes of enemies in combos while 50 feet above the ground, or a berzerkers psychotic speed-dash attack combos when maxed, and following those moves off with a room clearing finisher. That and outside of the too numerous and mindless cyberspace areas, there was some honest replayability. One idea out of a hundred were good, but there was just enough of a kernel of goodness to keep the flame of that game alive, for those who saw it.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

What a fantastic article. That is the type of content I want to read.

 

[Cymbal Head]

He sounds like the idiot boss I had right out of College. I'd bring him some cost projections or financial whatever and he'd spend 20 minutes complaining about the font and telling me the red title was 'the wrong red'. He wouldn't spend a minute reviewing the content before getting a phone call from his masseus and telling me to 'fix the fucking font!' before excusing me.

The title was yellow fwiw.

It's anecdotes like this that make me feel that my dreams of one day being a competent administrator are achievable. Or unachievable. Not sure which.

 

[mattiewheels]

Haha, what did he blame Mark McDonald for?

You should really look up the 1up Yours podcast where they interviewed Denis about his complaints, it truly is the Plan 9 From Outer Space of games media. It's so painful to consume, but so satisfying. Denis rails against everything but himself basically, how E3 being cancelled was a great thing because of it being unfair, how places like Neogaf are reprehensible for taking him to task...it's pretty entertaining. The sad part is that he hasn't peaked from that moment. It was all downhill from there.

 

[Shiggy]

That's only one piece of the mess called The Ritualist, which was cancelled by Sega/THQ. Their art department was pretty good, how sad that it never materialized into the games.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Interesting?

 

[JaseC]

This reminds me of those "close friends/confidential sources" quotes from gossip mags. It does sound about right though.

It's a reference to Dyack's ultimatum regarding Too Human.

 

[Terrell]

Well... Time for Nintendo to shop around for people to make Eternal Darkness 2. No sense in waiting for the Silicon Knights ship to finish sinking to do it.

 

[Cheerilee]

First, I'm not at all supportive of credit fuckery - credits are important to workers. Because of behavior like this in Hollywood, there are now credit guidelines written into union contracts. It's not just about having the personal satisfaction of getting your name in a shipped product, it's about there being an accurate record of who actually worked on what.

I think if you worked on the game for three months or more, you should get a full credit. Bringing work politics, hurt feelings, etc. into it is extremely unprofessional and petty, and this almost always originates from the upper levels of the company. Basically, the threat of losing a credit is just another way for bad managers to pressure and control their employees instead of actually managing them effectively.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4678341&postcount=42

LOL you're an awesome fact finder... Keep doing your credit searches - a wealth of knowledge there.

Credits in a Dyack game are a joke.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Well... Time for Nintendo to shop around for people to make Eternal Darkness 2. No sense in waiting for the Silicon Knights ship to finish sinking to do it.

You know who might be an interesting choice for a new Eternal Darkness?

Vigil.

 

[Ridley327]

You know who might be an interesting choice for a new Eternal Darkness?

Vigil.

"Thanks for helping us finish our game, Denis. Now, we're going to totally take over yours!"

This is assuming, of course, that Vigil lives long enough to do such a thing.

 

[GCX]

Next Level Games bettet not think about cutting ties with Nintendo.

 

[Shiggy]

Next Level Games bettet not think about breaking ties with Nintendo.

They tried...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdfc8c_catalyst_videogames

 

[Lupin the Third]

They tried...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdfc8c_catalyst_videogames

That background music HAS to be a placeholder. Most clichéd choice of music possible. I think Unseen 64 calling it a "pitch" is a pretty safe guess.

 

[Jake Tower]

Haha, what did he blame Mark McDonald for?

EGM Live* 3/12/2007 Dyack vs. Mark MacDonald

 

[Lachie007]

I thought Nintendo trademarked it (Eternal Darkness) again in 2011. Might be wrong but how could do this if they don't own the IP. Didn't dyack say Nintendo were still a 'silent' partner regarding a sequel?

And in the wikipedia (i know) page for Nintendo Eternal Darkness is listed as a Nintendo franchise.

 

[border]

Bookmarked -- will have to read the full article.

I liked Too Human a lot too, though the lack of content (only 4 dungeons?) made it hard to recommend to anybody.

 

[sphinx]

I thought Nintendo trademarked it (Eternal Darkness) again in 2011. Might be wrong but how could do this if they don't own the IP. Didn't dyack say Nintendo were still a 'silent' partner regarding a sequel?

And in the wikipedia (i know) page for Nintendo Eternal Darkness is listed as a Nintendo franchise.

the way I understand it, when SD says they are doing an ED game demo, I think they are doing a game that is supposed to fit the eternal darkness franchise. Then they go to nintendo and show it to them. If nintendo says "sorry, it isn't very good", they keep showing it to other publishers and if anyone is interested then both dev and publisher go to nintendo and as for permission to green light further development. If nintendo says no, then SK changes the IP to anything else.

does that make sense? I have no idea if that's how it is but I'd think so.

 

[TemplaerDude]

but, Too Human was awesome >_>

I liked Too Human, I enjoyed my time with it, but it's not a good game.

 

[element]

I remember going to GAF meetup at Jillian's one year and Denis showed up. We started talking about unions or guilds (like SAG). I am personally all for a game union or guild for a couple reasons, one being standardized crediting across all games. (I've worked at places where if you aren't a staff member on the day of the credits doc being reviewed, you aren't in the game.) Denis just looked at me as if I was insane. How no studio should adhere to such rules and how it has ruined Hollywood. It got his blood boiling.

After years of stories, it all becomes a lot more clear how petty the whole thing is.

As for the ED2. This is a company working on blind pride. No matter the facts presented in front of them, they are right. Even if Nintendo owned the IP, this is the type of company that believes they own it anyway.

 

[frankie_baby]

I remember going to GAF meetup at Jillian's one year and Denis showed up. We started talking about unions or guilds (like SAG). I am personally all for a game union or guild for a couple reasons, one being standardized crediting across all games. (I've worked at places where if you aren't a staff member on the day of the credits doc being reviewed, you aren't in the game.) Denis just looked at me as if I was insane. How no studio should adhere to such rules and how it has ruined Hollywood. It got his blood boiling.

After years of stories, it all becomes a lot more clear how petty the whole thing is.

As for the ED2. This is a company working on blind pride. No matter the facts presented in front of them, they are right. Even if Nintendo owned the IP, this is the type of company that believes they own it anyway.

If SK still actually had any money and staff left I could actually see them trying to develop and release ED2 not a spiritual successor but a real sequel, without Nintendo's say so, dyack would then probably meet with a gunpei yokoi style accident

 

[Waaghals]

Seems to me we can thank Nintendo for the quality of their previous output.
They often take a active role in development.

Seems that SK went downhill once Denis Dyack actually started calling the shots.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

Fascinating stuff!
Read the Kotaku article, and read through the entire thread, including listening to the 100 minute EGM podcast from 2007.

I gotta say, after listening to the podcast it's much harder for me to paint the simple picture of Denis Dyack as the bad guy. Clearly the man has many good ideas and deep insights both about making a game and about the industry in general.

On the other hand the Kotaku article makes it very clear that his social and communication skills aren't at the level you'd want for somebody in his position, who needs to cultivate healthy working relationships, both inside and outside the company, in order to build something that lives up to his vision.

I wonder if he ever considered getting help running the company from someone who could complement him in this regard. Something like Dyack being the 'Director' of SK and having another CO act as 'Producer'.

Sounds like the company could have accomplished some great things had they been able to establish such a structure, instead of being the dictatorship that they were..

 

[stephentotilo]

Thanks for all the kind words you folks have written about Andrew's piece. He worked his ass off on it, and I was proud to publish it.

 

[Plywood]

Dyack should be unbanned so he can defend himself.