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(Lack of) General Consensus: Best JRPG battle system ever?

FFXII has to be up there for the extreme amount of control it gives you. I also like Persona 5 for its snappiness and style - knocking down a row of guys and finishing with an all-out attack is like popping bubble wrap. The positional aspects of Xenoblade Chronicles (as Shulk, at least) are also a lot of fun imo.
 
As far as more obscureish options go, Ar Tonelico 2 does a pretty stellar job breaking away from the standard flow of most JRPG battle systems in order to create something engaging and memorable. It's a shame the balance breaks down towards the endgame as your options simply become too powerful.

Radiant Historia is a great example of utilizing position and turn order manipulation in creative ways in an otherwise typical turn-based system.

My personal favorite though, even now, is Chrono Trigger. It's actually kind of insane when you analyze it and realize how simple its battle system is mechanically, being little more than a souped-up variation of FF4's ATB with rudimentary positioning mechanics. And yet Square managed to do so much with it. There are so many encounters that are uniquely designed and demand more nuanced approaches from the player other than "spam the Attack command." The simple positioning system and on-field battles means that even different encounters featuring the same monsters may need to be approached differently because of how enemies and your party are grouped together. Additionally, you aren't overwhelmed with a number of interconnected options and mechanics that need to be constantly parsed as battles continue along. Every character has an attack command, 8 techs of varying utility, and the ability to use items. Nothing more, nothing less. And perhaps best of all, battles move quickly, with very little downtime between actions.
 
Xenoblade Chronicles. I love the break/topple/daze system, glimpses into the future trying to prevent the outcome, and team attack mechanic
 
There is no general consensus on best battle system. There isn't even a general consensus on what a JRPG is.

Valkyrie Profile 2 is the best if people had taste and actually bought the damn game.
 
There is something excellent to be said about Chrono Trigger's focus on Scenario Variety and moves that you use consistently throughout the game rather than progressing ala Fire to Firaga (something that eventually was inherited by Xenoblade and likely its Sequel). Not only does it help the pacing along but it helps flesh out the ATB system in very explicit and consistent directions, far better than any Random encounter system could ever provide and culls the needless spells for greater focus.
 
Grandia series. Grandia II was astounding at the time, one of the reasons I got a Dreamcast. Grandia III had the same combat but more refined, but a mess of a story.

I enjoyed Child of Light more because it reminded me of Grandia's combat minus the positioning.

Second is Persona 5 because the style factor is so high.
 
Maligna said:
I can't remember the intricacies of it, but I know I liked Grandia 2's battle system the best.
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Good choice. Grandia 2 was the game that opened my eyes to JRPGs. I like that how you approached enemies on the screen before the battle mattered.

But for me it will be Skies of Arcadia. I liked all of the different colors/element alignments and how you (and enemies) could change them on the fly in battle. I also dug the ship battles. They took the normal turn based system and spiced it up with features specific to fighting with airships.

As for magic systems I've always liked the materia system from FF7. I used to like learning spells/skills from weapons FF9 style but after having re-played it recently it wasn't as good as I remembered it.
 
FFXII's Gambit System isn't really a battle system, IMO, it's a rudimentary scripting language for automating menu commands. The actual battle system in FFXII is a modified ATB, like every FF game.

For me Bravely Default is up there, the risk/reward aspect of the system adds a level of excitement and lets you burn through lesser battles in a satisfying way.

FFX is my favourite FF system; it's turn-based, allows for quick party member switches, and was utilised really well by the developers, who designed encounters and enemies that push the player to swap characters out and use spells and abilities cleverly.

Press Turn is my favourite non-FF JRPG system. Hitting weaknesses is satisfying, but there's always that anxiety that you haven't *quite* put together a solid party, and your enemies might poke your weakness and wreck you. The system is simple to grasp, fun to master, and marries perfectly with the different elements, skills and buffs available.
 
Waji said:
Wow... I mean, Ni no Kuni ? The PS3 game ? It is known for its terrible battles.
Well, that doesn't mean you can't like of course, but it really can't be one of the best systems. And that is, without talking about the AI.
Wen you see the second one you also understand they where wrong about giving orders while being in real time..
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Wow, opinions am I right? That's why I wrote: for me. Opinions are not facts.
 
I just noticed a lot of the games with terrible stories have the some of the best combat systems ever, see:

- Tales of Graces f
- Final Fantasy XIII
- Star Ocean 4
 
I don't know if it's the best, I'd have to think for a while on that, but the first game that came to mind was Resonance of Fate for cool stylish action.
 
Although I wouldn't say it's the best, I will say that Blue Dragon's combat is highly underrated. Between the battle chaining and combining, the charge moves affecting time bar placement, the really fun class system, and generally interesting encounter design, combat is great in Blue Dragon (as long as you play on Hard mode).
 
Paper Mario TTYD.

Audience system? Rad. Badges? Rad. Partner mechanic? Rad. Stylish chaining? Rad. Star Specials? Rad. Bingo system? Rad.

Everything about the battle system looks, feels and flows so well and it's never frustrating. It's just constant fun.
 
Manzoon said:
Grandia series. Grandia II was astounding at the time, one of the reasons I got a Dreamcast. Grandia III had the same combat but more refined, but a mess of a story.

I enjoyed Child of Light more because it reminded me of Grandia's combat minus the positioning.

Second is Persona 5 because the style factor is so high.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with Grandia II and Persona 5.
 
For me I think it's hard to pick a consensus "best" because there tends to be different genres of RPG combat.

For something like pacing and visual fluidity, I'd go with something like FF X-2 and Suikoden II/V. For pure visual appeal, I'm also still quite fond of Suikoden II/V but also the original Tales of Destiny and its almost-Pocket-Street Fighter-esque presentation.

But for tangible feedback, that sort click-click-click of FF X's Quick Hit, Quick, Quick Hit, the smoothness of switching character party members, and the satisfying *snap crackle pop* of breaking an enemy's shell, zapping a robot, and smacking an flyer with a blitzball -- FFX has very satisfying feedback for having turn-based menus.

For something like tactics, Grandia or Vagrant Story, whereas FF XII really excels at broader battlefield strategy and management.

I think I prefer different ones for different styles of RPGs, depending a lot on their stories, story pacing, the pacing and depth character leveling or progression, and even what role gameplay plays in the story -- are you on an adventure, is it a thriller or a mystery, a political epic, or does it have the urgency of saving the world? XII's strategy, for example, fits the vast journeys across large spans of land, for example, as does its slower strategy management fit its political story. In contrast, the fast pacing of Suikoden II fits its large cast (making it easier to use 6 characters or try-out dozens of characters), or the smooth speed of X or fits pacing of that story and the urgency of its main antagonist.
 
Turn Based:

SMT Press Turn System

(Biased opinion) Valkyrie Profile (the first one)

Action

Star Ocean 4 - the last Hope / Tales of series with CC system (Graces F and Destiny Remake)
 
The Last Story combat system quite revolutionary and innovative too

Its look like action combat,but the controll actually arent really like one.No button mashing and revolves at how player move the character around.The combat can be tactically driven and also revolves at taking advantages of terrrain like destroying pillar or such.Soo much potential there.

Its like giving a fast,action feels of character controll without need to button mashing hacking weapon around while giving player sense of being tacticall like turn based has.

Sad no sequel yet.

I read interview Sakaguchi mentioned that he hoping the system will be 'new' modern jrpg combat blueprint for other devs
He kind of hoping more people will adopt or take inspiration from this as how turn based combat become pinnacle of jrpg

Sad no sign that it will happened soon or ever
 
warheat said:
No depth beyond unveiling weaknesses? You can't be serious.
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I didn't say 'no depth' first of all. Second, were you even going to present a counter argument to anything I wrote?

I do enjoy the press turn system and Nocturne became 70 of my favorite hours spent with a videogame a few years ago on PSN. I still recognized flaws it held and put forth an argument against it being the best in the genre though.
 
For Turn Based (in no particular order):
Bravely Default
Radiant Historia
Disgaea

For real-time:
Tales (especially Graces f)
The World Ends With You
 
As much as I enjoyed Persona 5, was the battle system really something special? It was just an evolution of Persona 4.

It's the same rock-paper-scissors that it has always been. Guns didn't add anything interesting. The extra elements of nuke and psi are just... extra; not additional complexity. The negotiation stuff was boring at best (As it was in past games too).

The only things I thought were an actual improvement were that some status effects could allow for extra damage when used with some attacks and that you could swap out characters.

At the end of the day, often the only interesting fights are when you encounter an enemy for the first time, or when you fight a boss. Other than that, once you know the weaknesses, there always a rote path of least resistance to follow. It's more about MP management than anything often.

I like Persona 5, and the battle system isn't bad. But the best? I really don't see why.

Now, to the OP...

I think Baten Kaitos is actually a very interesting answer. I loved it back in the day, but I do wonder if it would actually hold up.

Does Valkyria Chronicles count? It's not a traditional system, but it's great.

Mister Wolf said:
Xenoblade Chronicles. I love the break/topple/daze system, glimpses into the future trying to prevent the outcome, and team attack mechanic
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Generally I agree with you with some caveats. The system only gets good when you have more actions than you have time. Early on, it's a snooze, but once you get a bunch of attack options, Monado powers, and positioning to worry about, it feels great to execute a large fight well. However it can be EXTREMELY frustrating when your AI companions fail to properly follow up on something you've set up. I also pretty distinctly dislike playing as anyone but Shulk.
 
Tales of Graces F, Ys: Oath in Felghana (although I might prefer the Memories of Celceta system if the game wasn't so easy) and Kingdom Hearts 2 FM are my favourite real-time systems.

Turn-based is almost impossible to pare down. Grandia 3, Shadow Hearts: Covenant, Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door, Valkyria Chronicles 3, Mana Khemia 2, Skies of Arcadia, SMT4 ...

I... I could keep going, but yeah :P God damn do I love turn-based RPGs.
 
BRocknRolla said:
As much as I enjoyed Persona 5, was the battle system really something special? It was just an evolution of Persona 4.

It's the same rock-paper-scissors that it has always been. Guns didn't add anything interesting. The extra elements of nuke and psi are just... extra; not additional complexity. The negotiation stuff was boring at best (As it was in past games too).

The only things I thought were an actual improvement were that some status effects could allow for extra damage when used with some attacks and that you could swap out characters.

At the end of the day, often the only interesting fights are when you encounter an enemy for the first time, or when you fight a boss. Other than that, once you know the weaknesses, there always a rote path of least resistance to follow. It's more about MP management than anything often.

I like Persona 5, and the battle system isn't bad. But the best? I really don't see why.

Now, to the OP...

I think Baeten Kaitos is actually a very interesting answer. I loved it have in the day, but I do wonder if it would actually hold up.

Does Valkyria Chronicles count? It's not a traditional system, but it's great.
Click to expand...

You're right. I think P5's combat is still quite enjoyable, and it being a turn-based JRPG on console in 2017 gets extra thumbs up just for sticking to the roots compared to other series who jumped to action bandwagon. But that said, I don't think P5 did enough to set it apart from its predecessor. It's got more options in combat sure, but it's mostly very familiar and decent. Nothing truly mind blowing or amazing like others are clamoring for it here IMO.

Baten Kaitos Origins's combat was quite unique however and definitely deserves mentions. I'm still wanting a sequel to it instead of more Xenoblade and their crappy MMO combat.
 
I'll have to go with Mario and Luigi (Specifically superstar saga. I just enjoy how active the battles are and that proper timing skills is required along side strategy.
 
I still have Chrono Trigger ATB2 as my favorite. Simple, elegant, reasonable amount of party combo tweaking, using timing and positioning to engage you
 
Etrian Odyssey is my favourite by a long way. Status effects apply to bosses, party synergy allows for endless variety and exploits with a bit of planning, and standard encounters are actually dangerous. The whole 'bind' mechanics work across all allies and enemies and interact with various skills that you can make whole party builds around it.

The gambits of FFXII are fantastic, but I also love that FFX allows you to swap in reserves and doesn't punish you with a lost turn for it. Probably the only JRPG with a total party twice the size of what you can field in a battle, where I kept everyone at roughly the same level as it made more sense than just building a core team.
 
BRocknRolla said:
As much as I enjoyed Persona 5, was the battle system really something special? It was just an evolution of Persona 4.

It's the same rock-paper-scissors that it has always been. Guns didn't add anything interesting. The extra elements of nuke and psi are just... extra; not additional complexity. The negotiation stuff was boring at best (As it was in past games too).

The only things I thought were an actual improvement were that some status effects could allow for extra damage when used with some attacks and that you could swap out characters.

At the end of the day, often the only interesting fights are when you encounter an enemy for the first time, or when you fight a boss. Other than that, once you know the weaknesses, there always a rote path of least resistance to follow. It's more about MP management than anything often.

I like Persona 5, and the battle system isn't bad. But the best? I really don't see why.
Click to expand...

The status effects are quite useful in the game. Confuse can drop items/money and Brainwash can make a demon join you without having to choose dialogue options.

PSY and Nuke add more options than just being a new element, since they are boosted by status effects.

Managing your resourced should be counted. The game gives you two limited resources: bullets and MP and you have to maximise them (until you get some Confidant perks at least). Batton Pass is a really nice addition to divide MP cost between party members and in Hard mode you'd need to use it since a lot of mobs don't die with the Weakness -> Batton Pass combo.

And the battles being short after a while is a plus for me IMO. In this kind of games you fight a lot. So having normal battles being much faster once you know how the enemy works is great. It's something that doesn't happen in a lot of game, and even less in JRPGs.

I love how in Horizon fights against machines become much easier and faster after a while because you find the strategy that works best for you. This game does something similar despite having a more restrictive battle system and I loved every second of it.

That's my take. As a whole P5 is the most satisfying battle system I've experienced. Maybe not the best in term of raw mechanics, but when you take the whole picture into account, it's unmatched.
 
Grandia 2 DC.

116.jpg


grandia2_5.jpg


Grandia 3 PS2.

grandia-iii-20060210075400608-000.jpg


grandia-iii-burn.jpg


grandi13.jpg
 
Grandia 3 could have been so much better if there were skills, ways to play with the turn gauge
and if the best characters didn't leave at the beginning
.

labx said:
Wow, opinions am I right? That's why I wrote: for me. Opinions are not facts.
Click to expand...
I know that's not the point. I would have prefered if you told us what part exactly you thought were good, you know...
 
Idk.

Some systems I've really liked:

Chrono Trigger: very nice character synergy and I thought the character growth pacing was good.

Etrian Odyssey (I played IV): great class system with great ability variety and viability coupled with tightly tuned battles that push you to make good use of your set-up.

Press turn (SMTIII, IV, IVA): These games really push strength/weaknesses, status effects, instant death, etc. rewarding good team building and usage. The system also generalizes better to bosses, has greater risks with its miss/reflect/guard/absorb penalties than its Persona descendant. Throw in demon conversation, which adds tension and lost turns into the game as well as potential rewards and you get a very engaging system.

Persona system (P3-5): I think it has obvious weaknesses compared to press turn, but it also has its own strengths.

It generalizes poorly to bosses, who often have no weaknesses and can't be knocked down. The knock-down system is exciting and gives you a goal to build towards and changes what you do with different enemies, rewarding varied ability use to match weaknesses. It also trivializes ambush encounters rapidly when you've figured out the weaknesses of an area's monsters though. Still you have characters with idiosyncratic, strong best use cases; you have strong status/buff/death spells; strong weaknesses/strengths, all of which promote using a range of abilities to satisfying effect.

In most ways, P5 is the best version with baton pass giving non-MC characters a much appreciated utility boost, the ability to swap party members (coupled with exp share), and demon conversations throwing a risk/reward wrench in the battle flow. P5 ambush and money shake down are too OP, however, and P4 has a better approach to initial encounter premises, making non-ambush, non-surprise the norm.

I will repeat that building towards all enemies down is very nice especially when it involves multiple characters playing to multiple strengths. I love that synergy with huge pay-off.

Bump combat (Ys I&II): Ys I in particular really impressed me with its boss design when I played it recently, but the games really make you focus on movement and only movement to great effect, imo.
 
Gonna float Tales of Graces as the best real-time system, and Radiant Historia for turn-based.

Edit: ah, and how could I forget TWEWY
 
Some of my favorites from top of my head

Kingdom Hearts 2FM
Star Ocean 3
Resonance of Fate
Valkyrie Profile 2 Silmeria
Grandia
Tales of Graces F
Tales of Destiny Directors Cut
Final Fantasy X-2
Lightning Returns FFXIII
TWEWY
 
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