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[BaronLundi]

No. I "get it". Its just that I don't give a crap about why black kids are turning to crime. I was interested in seeing cops go after criminals (a reason expectation given the name of the show and S1). If the show had been advertised like Boston Public, I would've known never to turn in. I'm simply not interested.

If I had a genuine interest in the ills of urban society, I'd watch real documentaries, not some fictionalized leftist propoganda from Simon.

Spoiler

So half of this thread is now dedicated to discussing this guy's terrible taste and lack of comprehension ?

 

[RepairmanJack]

Ordered the entire series on Amazon.it on monday, we'll see how it goes.
I've never heard a complaint on it, so i guess it's a guaranteed hit.

Apparently the only way to complain about this show is that it didn't hold your hand through it and explain step by step every action and the reason behind it.

Also stay far, far away from this thread. A ton of spoilers in here and you don't want the show spoiled for you.

 

[ACESandEIGHTS]

Yaknow that episode where McNulty has his kids tail a baddie through the market?

Wanna tell ya: I believe that's Lexington Market, home of Faidley's Seafood, and if you're in town and never been, it is the best place for a softshell sandwhich or a jumbo crabcake (the regular crabcakes are mediocre and to be avoided) and a National Bohemian. Plug over.

DAMN, I loved the Wire. Sopranos, schpromanos, I think The Wire proved how awesome a real-feeling, gritty crime drama could be, particularly with all sides covered (cops, criminals, civilians, politicians) and it very likely is the best show ever made.

 

[tnsply100]

Show me where Stringer approached Levy?

He sent the docs from his work with Clay Davis through a runner to Levy to "run another set of eyes over them".

Either way - this is getting sidetracked. You are trying to establish a pattern in which Levy gives unsolicited advice to drug dealers to invest money in development - and Marlo taking this advice (the goal being to come up with an explanation why Marlo was hobnobbing with devs).

It also showed bravery & trying to stand up for what he believed in, completely unlike the pistol-whipping(which is why equting the 2 incidents is foolish)

Yeah - heaven forbid he refuse to obey in a non-violent way (which, by the way, still would'nt demonstrate any remorse)

Seriously? Show me a list of incidents where a lack of remorse is shown?

What? This is a nonsensical request.
You and the other poster are claiming that Prez improved preSeason 4 - I asked you to list events that demonstrate his improvement (one way of improvement is to show remorse for acts). Now, you're asking ME instead to come up with events that demonstrate a 'lack of remorse' ?

You're defending a claim here - not me.

You think its unrealistic for a community leader to find a job within his community? Again they all worked/lived within that community, it would be unrealistic for them to randomly end up cast up & down B'more.

Proof that all five people mentioned lived in the same "community" (I assume you mean a very small portion of Baltimore of 'community') Furthermore, proof that all the people within that community would only look for jobs within that community (whatever that means).

You mean the unrelated deacon whose phone number she gave him? Did you even watch the show?

Yes I did - did you read the posts? The deacon's 'job search' is completely unrelated - makes if difference that she gave the deacon's number to Cutty. She still was not expecting Cutty to show up at the school.

Bunny didn't just happen to get a job in schools, he was asked to by the Deacon( almost as if he had some ties to the school)

And? What are the odds that this researcher comes to one particular Deacon in Baltimore? What are the odds that the Deacon recommends this job to Bunny? What are the odds that Colvin gets fired/leaves from his security job just in time to have this school meeting lined up?

 

[Mumei]

He went to Daniels to tell him that it was the same kid from what I recall. And couldn't "look at him" - from the kids own quote. You can interpret that whatever way you like. I certainly don't call not wanting to look at your victim remorse.

A simple "sorry" of course was out of the question....and no chance of him rescinding his (Daniels) invented fiction of the kid threatening him.

Well, to translate for you: He was unable to look at the kid because he felt a sense of remorse and even shame. That is what that scene was supposed to indicate for you.

Spoiler

So half of this thread is now dedicated to discussing this guy's terrible taste and lack of comprehension ?

Pfft.

Spoiler

More like four-fifths, at least.

 

[ultron87]

So the current sticking point in this thread is that a television show used a series of coincidences to generate plot? Just like every TV show (or movie or book) ever?

 

[Drewsky]

So the current sticking point in this thread is that a television show used a series of coincidences to generate plot? Just like every TV show (or movie or book) ever?

And that tnsply100 doesn't care about black people.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Well, to translate for you: He was unable to look at the kid because he felt a sense of remorse and even shame. That is what that scene was supposed to indicate for you.

We were supposed to understand that without him saying it? This show is horse shit!

And that tnsply100 doesn't care about black people.

Also it was absolutely stupid for Marlo to do anything with his money, BUT take care of pigeons and gamble.

 

[Kyoufu]

Yo, when you come at the king, you best not miss!

 

[tnsply100]

Well, to translate for you: He was unable to look at the kid because he felt a sense of remorse and even shame. That is what that scene was supposed to indicate for you.

Either that, or he didn't want to think about what he did. Just because a rapist doesn't want to look at his victim does NOT mean he is remorseful for his action.

You can try to spin 'not wanting to look at a kid' into 'he has become a better person', but I certainly don't buy it.

We were supposed to understand that without him saying it? This show is horse shit!

No - you were supposed to NOT jump to conclusions about what "not wanting to look at your victim" means.

 

[crimzonflame]

Either that, or he didn't want to think about what he did. Just because a rapist doesn't want to look at his victim does NOT mean he is remorseful for his action.

You can try to spin 'not wanting to look at a kid' into 'he has become a better person', but I certainly don't buy it.

How the hell do you watch TV? Seriously.

 

[Mumei]

We were supposed to understand that without him saying it? This show is horse shit!

Hah!

For a moment, before I looked at your name, I thought you were him responding.

Either that, or he didn't want to think about what he did. Just because a rapist doesn't want to look at his victim does NOT mean he is remorseful for his action.

You can try to spin 'not wanting to look at a kid' into 'he has become a better person', but I certainly don't buy it.

Yes, I know you had trouble deciphering the scene; that's why I translated it for you.

 

[tnsply100]

Hah!

Yes, I know you had trouble deciphering the scene; that's why I translated it for you.

Well? I'm still waiting. Where is the list of incidents that show that Prez had improved as a person before S4?

Or is the rest going to be more of playing "jump to conclusions" ....

"He DIDN'T punch Carver when he tried to tell Carver to do surveillance from the rooftops, and Carver made fun of him for trying to order Carver around. Clearly an improvement!!!".

 

[Imm0rt4l]

one of the biggest wtf moments for me was Rawls in the gay bar. It kinda came outta nowhere, and they never went anywhere with it.

 

[ACESandEIGHTS]

one of the biggest wtf moments for me was in the gay bar. It kinda came outta nowhere, and they never went anywhere with it.

Yeah, that was awesome. Never knew why they did it. Either it was political, to say "Hey, gay men are just like you and me!" or it was to make you look differently at him.

Which I did.

I am a bad person.

But seriously, if you add depth to a character, even in an inorganic way, that character becomes different, and whoever thunk that one up was pretty smart.

 

[tnsply100]

one of the biggest wtf moments for me was Rawls in the gay bar. It kinda came outta nowhere, and they never went anywhere with it.

I call that in "in-show troll". Reveal that somebody is gay for no freaking reason whatsoever other than to get the fans chattering, and don't do anything else with it. Law and Order did the exact same thing with

Spoiler

Serena Southerlyn in her last episode "Am I being fired because I'm lesbian"?

 

[afternoon delight]

So half of this thread is now dedicated to discussing this guy's terrible taste and lack of comprehension ?

Yes, its remaining parts.

Before we continue to respond, this is a poster who has said he doesn't give a fuck about Wallace's story, or D'Angelo's, and wanted a brand new wire-tap each season because ITS CALLED THE WIRE AMIRITE?

He also compared the fourth season to Boston Public. And he appreciates the structure of Law and Order Number 123415.

EDIT: Forgot that he also asked "Why does the Wire have to stay in Baltimore" which really, 100%, sums it all up.

 

[BaronLundi]

I call that in "in-show troll". Reveal that somebody is gay for no freaking reason whatsoever other than to get the fans chattering, and don't do anything else with it. Law and Order did the exact same thing with

Spoiler

Serena Southerlyn in her last episode "Am I being fired because I'm lesbian"?

Yeah, because one would need a (good) reason for a character to be gay, right ?

 

[q_q]

Jesus this troll is still going? Props tnsply. Goddamn. That's impressive.

 

[Mumei]

Well? I'm still waiting. Where is the list of incidents that show that Prez had improved as a person before S4?

Or is the rest going to be more of playing "jump to conclusions" ....

"He DIDN'T punch Carver when he tried to tell Carver to do surveillance from the rooftops, and Carver made fun of him for trying to order Carver around. Clearly an improvement!!!".

No, you're supposed to observe the behavior of the actor and non-verbal cues in order to understand internal changes. The Wire has very little expository dialogue; it expects you to figure these things out on your own.

So in that sense, seeing an improvement in Prez is not about looking for a list of incidents that show that he's improved. You need to look at the whole of his behavior and the way he approached his life and his career. He is a very different person in Season 1 compared to Season 2, and you observe this change by noting the differences in how he approaches his job, his relationships with his co-workers, his obvious pride in the work that he does, etc. He's gone from a useless hump who lost his temper and ended up blinding a kid to a good detective. I know you think that going from useless hump to where he is in Season 2 (for instance, see the conversations he has with Valchek early in Season 2) is not indicative of a change for the better, but I assure you, that is what you were supposed to gather from that evidence.

Incidentally, Cerebral Assassin was not requesting that you provide him with a list of incidents. He was repeating the question incredulously, confused that you would be asking such a nonsensical question. I'm also confused by that, for the record.

Edit: Perhaps I was wrong about Cerebral Assassin. Well even if he's not confused by your nonsensical question, I sure am.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

He sent the docs from his work with Clay Davis through a runner to Levy to "run another set of eyes over them".

Either way - this is getting sidetracked. You are trying to establish a pattern in which Levy gives unsolicited advice to drug dealers to invest money in development - and Marlo taking this advice (the goal being to come up with an explanation why Marlo was hobnobbing with devs).

Where did those docs come from?
Levy is part of the Game(like Clay Davis & the Developers), Marlo has taken advice in the past(Prop Joe) Levy has given advice in the past(to Stringer/Avon) In Levy's eyes Marlo replaces Stringer/Avon, how blinkered do you have to be to not see the logical explaination behind Marlo meeting people to look into investing his money.

Yeah - heaven forbid he refuse to obey in a non-violent way (which, by the way, still would'nt demonstrate any remorse)

I never said it was a sign of remorse, just that comparing it to the whipping is a useless comparison.

What? This is a nonsensical request.
You and the other poster are claiming that Prez improved preSeason 4 - I asked you to list events that demonstrate his improvement (one way of improvement is to show remorse for acts). Now, you're asking ME instead to come up with events that demonstrate a 'lack of remorse' ?

You're defending a claim here - not me.

You said he had shown no difference in his behaviour pre-S4, defend that claim.(you already mentioned the meeting with the whipped boy, to me in that scene Prez is clearly remorseful), also his conversation with Valchek about how he wanted to work good cases clearly shows a change in Prez(his personality does change between S1 & S3, if not it should be easy to show him reacting to thing in the same way)

Proof that all five people mentioned lived in the same "community" (I assume you mean a very small portion of Baltimore of 'community') Furthermore, proof that all the people within that community would only look for jobs within that community (whatever that means).

Read my post properly I said Lived/WORKED not just lived.

Yes I did - did you read the posts? The deacon's 'job search' is completely unrelated - makes if difference that she gave the deacon's number to Cutty. She still was not expecting Cutty to show up at the school.

Fuck off, you claimed that the Deacon magically contacted Cuttys , this is factually incorrect, pretending you meant something else is pretty sad:

"He magically gets contacted by the Deacon who just happens to find a job at school that will have Prez (a cop who went after him) and his wife/gf."

And? What are the odds that this researcher comes to one particular Deacon in Baltimore? What are the odds that the Deacon recommends this job to Bunny? What are the odds that Colvin gets fired/leaves from his security job just in time to have this school meeting lined up?

Why would a researcher talk to a community leader in a drug addled community?

Incidentally, Cerebral Assassin was not requesting that you provide him with a list of incidents. He was repeating the question incredulously, confused that you would be asking such a nonsensical question. I'm also confused by that, for the record.

Ahh, I wanted to see if he could work that one out.

 

[dave is ok]

Before we continue to respond, this is a poster who has said he doesn't give a fuck about Wallace's story, or D'Angelo's, and wanted a brand new wire-tap each season because ITS CALLED THE WIRE AMIRITE?.

My favorite part of this complaint is the fact that there was a different wiretap every season.

S1: Pagers and payphones
S2: Sobotka cellphone
S3: Cheese and Stringer cellphone
etc.

 

[Messypandas]

Tnsreply or whatever the fuck you're called. I'm quite impressed at your near line for line recollection of a series you seemingly find no value in post-season 1. Thats some serious impressive feat.

 

[tnsply100]

Where did those docs come from?

Stringer and Clay Davis' work together.

Levy is part of the Game(like Clay Davis & the Developers), Marlo has taken advice in the past(Prop Joe) Levy has given advice in the past(to Stringer/Avon) In Levy's eyes Marlo replaces Stringer/Avon, how blinkered do you have to be to not see the logical explaination behind Marlo meeting people to look into investing his money.

I'm not being blinkered here, its you inventing reasons for Marlo to hobnob with developers. Levy has been laundering money for Marlo all through Season 5. There is absolutely no reason for him to suddenly start hobnob with developers in suits. It was simply unnecessary - Marlo's investments and life are ALREADY set.

I never said it was a sign of remorse, just that comparing it to the whipping is a useless comparison.

I'm comparing it to show that Prez has an uncontrolled temper as of the beginning of S1. Getting your temper under control is one possible step toward turning into a better person.

You said he had shown no difference in his behaviour pre-S4, defend that claim.

I said I see no evidence of his improvement - I don't need to defend anything. You're the one making a positive claim here - not me.

also his conversation with Valchek about how he wanted to work good cases clearly shows a change in Prez(his personality does change between S1 & S3, if not it should be easy to show him reacting to thing in the same way)

Figuring out that he enjoyed working on certain cases is "becoming a better person"?

Read my post properly I said Lived/WORKED not just lived.

Then, provide evidence that Cutty(through the Deacon), Cutty's gf, Colvin, Prez only looked for job opportunities only in one small "community" of Baltimore. Furthermore, provide evidence that Bubbles also roamed in that precise small "community".

Fuck off, you claimed that the Deacon magically contacted Cuttys , this is factually incorrect, pretending you meant something else is pretty sad:

"He magically gets contacted by the Deacon who just happens to find a job at school that will have Prez (a cop who went after him) and his wife/gf."

Are you trying to be dense on purpose? I said it was irrelevant to this argument if that particular detail was factually incorrect - we are debating probabilities here. It does NOT matter if I was wrong about Cutty's wife and the Deacon being related.

It is STILL incredibly unlikely that Deacon finds Cutty a job working in a school, and furthermore the exact same school where he'll run into his girlfriend, and a cop who was wiretapping his crew.

Why would a researcher talk to a community leader in a drug addled community?

How many "drug addled communities" are there in Baltimore? How many deacons do they have? Let me guess, the researcher also "lived/worked" in the same "community" ?

Incidentally, Cerebral Assassin was not requesting that you provide him with a list of incidents. He was repeating the question incredulously, confused that you would be asking such a nonsensical question. I'm also confused by that, for the record.

Edit: Perhaps I was wrong about Cerebral Assassin. Well even if he's not confused by your nonsensical question, I sure am.

What the hell? You people claim that Prez has repeatedly shown remorse on "more than one occasion" see below. I'm told its "obvious" and "clear" multiple times.

& as for showing no remorse, he clearly did(on more than one occasion).

I simply ask you to make a list of such occasions. And, this is viewed as an "nonsensical request" worthy of mockery????

 

[afternoon delight]

Tnsreply or whatever the fuck you're called. I'm quite impressed at your near line for line recollection of a series you seemingly find no value in post-season 1. Thats some serious impressive feat.

This is child's play to Lost threads. This is civil discourse compared to the erigru posts of fame. Once we start analyzing clothing as hints towards interior motivation we'll be there.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Marlo doesn't start hanging with developers because he's interested in business like Stringer. He does it so he can make his money work for him; he can launder all the money he wants but ultimately the best way to handle it is to invest in a business and keep the feds off his back. It's the same real estate hustle Stringer attempted to reform himself with in S3. The only difference is by the time Marlo gets there, the project is basically shovel ready whereas Stringer was dicked around for more than a year.

Each of your complaints is basically you demanding the show be simple and hold your hand. When multiple Simon quotes prove otherwise, you focus on a line or two. I really don't see any logic in your arguments.

 

[tnsply100]

No, you're supposed to observe the behavior of the actor and non-verbal cues in order to understand internal changes. The Wire has very little expository dialogue; it expects you to figure these things out on your own.

So in that sense, seeing an improvement in Prez is not about looking for a list of incidents that show that he's improved. You need to look at the whole of his behavior and the way he approached his life and his career. He is a very different person in Season 1 compared to Season 2, and you observe this change by noting the differences in how he approaches his job, his relationships with his co-workers, his obvious pride in the work that he does, etc. He's gone from a useless hump who lost his temper and ended up blinding a kid to a good detective. I know you think that going from useless hump to where he is in Season 2 (for instance, see the conversations he has with Valchek early in Season 2) is not indicative of a change for the better, but I assure you, that is what you were supposed to gather from that evidence.
.

In other words

1.) He didn't repeat his violent actions (except Valchek who doesn't count because he deserved it anyway)
2.) He figured out he liked working wiretap cases and had some skill there.

is intended by David Simon to show me that "Prez has become a better person."
You're right - this is completely over my head. Apologies for being dense.

 

[MMaRsu]

In other words

1.) He didn't repeat his violent actions (except Valchek who doesn't count because he deserved it anyway)
2.) He figured out he liked working wiretap cases and had some skill there.

is intended by David Simon to show me that "Prez has become a better person."
You're right - this is completely over my head. Apologies for being dense.

Well you are dense and the show does go over your head. It's obvious going from your posts.

 

[Messypandas]

In other words

1.) He didn't repeat his violent actions (except Valchek who doesn't count because he deserved it anyway)
2.) He figured out he liked working wiretap cases and had some skill there.

is intended by David Simon to show me that "Prez has become a better person."
You're right - this is completely over my head. Apologies for being dense.

You're forgiven. What do you expect? What, in your mind would signify an improvement in the character? Handing out flowers? Weeping over the kid he blinded? Sending him chocolates and a sorry note? Get a fucking grip man

 

[tnsply100]

Each of your complaints is basically you demanding the show be simple and hold your hand. When multiple Simon quotes prove otherwise, you focus on a line or two. I really don't see any logic in your arguments.

Either that, or I'm not as willing to take leaps of faith that you people are, and am being justifiably cynical in suspecting that having the character magically hobnobbing with developers is a hackjob way of trying to draw a parallel with Stringer where NONE existed.

As I said, writing a plot is like writing a mathematical proof - skip a step, and your proof is worthless.

 

[RepairmanJack]

Apologies for being dense.

Apology accepted.

/thread

 

[BorkBork]

In other words

1.) He didn't repeat his violent actions (except Valchek who doesn't count because he deserved it anyway)
2.) He figured out he liked working wiretap cases and had some skill there.

is intended by David Simon to show me that "Prez has become a better person."
You're right - this is completely over my head. Apologies for being dense.

Yup. Noticeable self-improvement from an insecure douchebag that pistol whipped a kid to prove himself to the others on the team. Pretty easy stuff to pick up, but don't beat yourself up too badly about it though.

 

[tnsply100]

You're forgiven. What do you expect? What, in your mind would signify an improvement in the character? Handing out flowers? Weeping over the kid he blinded? Sending him chocolates and a sorry note? Get a fucking grip man

Saying "sorry" when he saw him?
Admitting to another character that he wished he hadn't done it? (not because he got in trouble, but because he felt bad for the kid)
Rescinding his claim that the kid was threatening him?
Not losing control and refusing Valchek in a non-violent way?
A similar scene with another kid where he handles the situation much better? (Hey, if Simon wants to show improvement, it is not unreasonable for me to ask him to spend a scene showing it... would've helped with the "he can work as a teacher" bullshit that got shoved down our throat too)

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Saying "sorry" when he saw him?
Admitting to another character that he wished he hadn't done it? (not because he got in trouble, but because he felt bad for the kid)
Rescinding his claim that the kid was threatening him?
Not losing control and refusing Valchek in a non-violent way?

lol http://feelangry.ytmnd.com/

What level of school have you completed? And where are you from anyway? You're a strange duck.

 

[Mumei]

In other words

1.) He didn't repeat his violent actions (except Valchek who doesn't count because he deserved it anyway)
2.) He figured out he liked working wiretap cases and had some skill there.

is intended by David Simon to show me that "Prez has become a better person."
You're right - this is completely over my head. Apologies for being dense.

Yes.

Glad that is settled. <3

 

[RepairmanJack]

Saying "sorry" when he saw him?
Admitting to another character that he wished he hadn't done it? (not because he got in trouble, but because he felt bad for the kid)
Rescinding his claim that the kid was threatening him?
Not losing control and refusing Valchek in a non-violent way?
A similar scene with another kid where he handles the situation much better? (Hey, if Simon wants to show improvement, it is not unreasonable for me to ask him to spend a scene showing it... would've helped with the "he can work as a teacher" bullshit that got shoved down our throat too)

This is just sad. So basically you wanted just some cookie cutter show, that has to over imply that he felt remorse. Really? Go watch some other show that has to show a flashback from 10 minutes earlier in the episode because their viewer base can't remember that far back. It seems like that is what you are looking for in a TV show.

 

[tnsply100]

What level of school have you completed? And where are you from anyway? You're a strange duck.

My schooling/age should be irrelevant, and so should where I am from.

That said, I'm currently in the USA, and I finished my Masters a few years ago.

 

[dave is ok]

Saying "sorry" when he saw him?
Admitting to another character that he wished he hadn't done it? (not because he got in trouble, but because he felt bad for the kid)
Rescinding his claim that the kid was threatening him?
Not losing control and refusing Valchek in a non-violent way?
A similar scene with another kid where he handles the situation much better? (Hey, if Simon wants to show improvement, it is not unreasonable for me to ask him to spend a scene showing it... would've helped with the "he can work as a teacher" bullshit that got shoved down our throat too)

Wasteful exposition like this is why The Wire is a better show than the procedural shows you prefer.

Why say it with an entire scene when you can say it with a look?

 

[Messypandas]

Saying "sorry" when he saw him?
Admitting to another character that he wished he hadn't done it? (not because he got in trouble, but because he felt bad for the kid)
Rescinding his claim that the kid was threatening him?
Not losing control and refusing Valchek in a non-violent way?
A similar scene with another kid where he handles the situation much better? (Hey, if Simon wants to show improvement, it is not unreasonable for me to ask him to spend a scene showing it... would've helped with the "he can work as a teacher" bullshit that got shoved down our throat too)

Presbo was a backseat character until season 4, he was one of the only main crew where we never saw any of his home or social life. The improvement was shown since he didn't unload on his car and smack random hoppers anymore. When someone stops taking drugs do you want them to say aloud 'i don't take drugs anymore' or can rely on the fact that since we don't see scenes of them not taking drugs then we can trust they've stopped?

I don't understand how somehow can need more declarative dialogue from a show like the Wire. The beauty of it was that it didn't spell out what the viewer could already comprehend.

 

[BorkBork]

THIS MAKES ME FEEL ANGRY!

The TV tropes form.

 

[tnsply100]

I don't understand how somehow can need more declarative dialogue from a show like the Wire. The beauty of it was that it didn't spell out what the viewer could already comprehend.

The problem is two independent people can "comprehend" mutually exclusive things. At the end of Season 3, if some kid had started getting in Prez's face and pissed him off, I certainly wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if he had taken out another eye". And absent hindsight of S4 and S5, everyone here would be defending the brilliant writing of David Simon by saying "Of course, he was going to snap sooner or later.. he's always been mercurial... remember Valchek?!"

This is a problem with "art" in general - writer writes "gol_" and assumes everyone will read "gold", and engages in grandiose claims about how "I don't hold the readers hand... I don't need so spell everything out"..... Until some perfectly reasonable poor guy reads "golf".

If you are a writer and two reasonable readers come to mutually exclusive conclusions about important plot points, you have failed.

 

[BorkBork]

The problem is two independent people can "comprehend" mutually exclusive things.

This is a problem with "art" in general - writer writes "gol_" and assumes everyone will read "gold", and engages in grandiose claims about how "I don't hold the viewers hand... I don't need so spell everything out"..... Until some perfectly reasonable poor guy reads "golf".

If you are a writer and two reasonable readers come to mutually exclusive conclusions about important plot points, you have failed.

On the other hand, if most of the people who watch the show come to similar conclusions as the creator, then I think the writer has done a pretty good job, especially when delving into a complex world with some depth and subtlety. This seems to be the case here, as a vast majority of people who have seen the show are utterly baffled over your complaints. Most of the people who have responded to you, a group of very different individuals who come from different backgrounds and perspectives, contend that you are not a reasonable reader.

 

[Messypandas]

The problem is two independent people can "comprehend" mutually exclusive things.

This is a problem with "art" in general - writer writes "gol_" and assumes everyone will read "gold", and engages in grandiose claims about how "I don't hold the viewers hand... I don't need so spell everything out"..... Until some perfectly reasonable poor guy reads "golf".

If you are a writer and two reasonable readers come to mutually exclusive conclusions about important plot points, you have failed.

Except what we're actually seeing is about 99% consensus on the actual course of events and somebody being prickly on points which don't coalesce with his preformed-ideas of a valid narrative. Lemme guess, you're an aspiring writer ready to show David Simon how its done?

 

[Battersea Power Station]

If you are a writer and two reasonable readers come to mutually exclusive conclusions about important plot points, you have failed.

Holy shit.

 

[RepairmanJack]

If you are a writer and two reasonable readers come to mutually exclusive conclusions about important plot points, you have failed.

Man I wish I had some gifs on hand. Or at least there were smileys. This genuinely made me laugh out loud. I thank you tnsply, I really do. Wow.

 

[tnsply100]

On the other hand, if most of the people who watch the show come to similar conclusions as the creator, then I think the writer has done a pretty good job, especially when delving into a complex world with some depth and subtlety. This seems to be the case here, as a vast majority of people who have seen the show are utterly baffled over your complaints. Most of the people who have responded to you, a group of very different individuals who come from different backgrounds and perspectives, contend that you are not a reasonable reader.

Because I suspect there is a heavy dose of hindsight coloring everyone's judgment? (see my updated post to which you responded)

If you had made a poll here after S3 claiming "Is prez teacher material?" - you'd have gotten quite a few arguments. Its only after seeing S4 and S5 that people are claiming "Of course, look at his body language, pride in job, looks, interests, approach to life... blah blah " - clearly he has been improving throughout the show since the first eye incident.

As I said - if Prez had taken out another eye in Season 3, these same people would be saying "of course Prez has always been mercurial.. remember Valchek?.. Its totally in character for him" !!

 

[Orenhy]

Shiiiiiieeeeett

 

[Veelk]

You know, of all the arguing that has gone on here about Marlo going into developments, I'm amazed that no one said the most obvious reason why Marlo went into it.

Because he's fucking Marlo!

Why was he in the game in the first place? Because he fucking loved it. The money, the power, it's all things he appreciated, but what really got him off was being better than others. He liked working his way up the ladder. He liked to work the game, kill off oppenents, and just simply work to be the best there is. Honestly, I'm not sure he would have been happy if he had been allowed to keep his position at the top. There'd be nothing else for him to do. He'd have 'beat' the game. What he loved was playing it.

Gambling? Living off his money? Feeding his fucking pigeons?

These are more logical conclusions for the character who lived to oppress and dominate over people? Give me a break. Business was the closest replica to the game that he had available to him. But it's not the same, which is why he looked so longingly at the corner once he took it. That was his place, and he had nothing left. He couldn't be happy doing anything else.

 

[MMaRsu]

The problem is two independent people can "comprehend" mutually exclusive things. At the end of Season 3, if some kid had started getting in Prez's face and pissed him off, I certainly wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if he had taken out another eye". And absent hindsight of S4 and S5, everyone here would be defending the brilliant writing of David Simon by saying "Of course, he was going to snap sooner or later.. he's always been mercurial... remember Valchek?!"

This is a problem with "art" in general - writer writes "gol_" and assumes everyone will read "gold", and engages in grandiose claims about how "I don't hold the readers hand... I don't need so spell everything out"..... Until some perfectly reasonable poor guy reads "golf".

If you are a writer and two reasonable readers come to mutually exclusive conclusions about important plot points, you have failed.

In this case you seem to be the only one not comprehending shit. I haven't heard or read this much stupidity in a Wire topic ever.

 

[Dyno]

Look at me, I'm an attention whore.

You have fucked up this thread with your shit.

This was a great thread full of nostalgia, scenes, and quotes. Then you came along and started to write a fucking novel defending your hair-brained ideas and it turned into shit. This thread was about The Wire, remember? Now it's your soapbox and guess what, it sucks.

You are the internet version of a blabber-mouth and a buffoon. You should really learn to shut your mouth.