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[Messypandas]

You people always confuse me..... Just a few posts ago - I had people jumping down my throat saying The Wire was about Baltimore. Now I got people saying it is "Not about Baltimore"

Which is it? Baltimore? American City? Drug War? Baltimore Drug war? Cops vs Robbers?

Forgive me i meant to say 'not just about Baltimore'. Although its clear you're trolling to the point of tedium, with purposefully obtuse responses to posters genuinely trying to give you clarity on this show. perhaps just accept thats its not for you. Or that it didn't deliver what you're expecting, or up to your high standards.

 

[madara]

Holy crap! I know the unwritten rule especially with the internet there always has to be some people that loathe and crap on brilliance but it's still so jarring when you see it.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Forgive me i meant to say 'not just about Baltimore'. Although its clear you're trolling to the point of tedium, with purposefully obtuse responses to posters genuinely trying to give you clarity on this show. perhaps just accept thats its not for you. Or that it didn't deliver what you're expecting, or up to your high standards.

He doesn't even have high standards. He just wants a simple black and white show of cops catching robbers, yet apparently doesn't like CSI or the other shows right up his alley. But then again he likes The Shield, which rocks.

tnsply100 have you seen Homicide? I have a feeling it's what you're looking for.

 

[tnsply100]

The fact that you could read that quote and repeat the same nonsense you've been saying for three days is stunning. Simon says it's not a cop show, and you say it's a cop v robbers show. Brilliant.

Of course a criminal investigation is at the heart (or spine) of every season, with the themes surrounding it. In S2 the dying industrial sector getting sucked into crime - from simple petty theft to a more serious investigation. In S3 the effect of reform - the meaningless "dope on the table" games and promises that can't be kept. In S4, the education system - overlooking kids as they're trained to take over the streets. And in S5 the media and its "coverage" of inner city crime.

No one has denied The Wire focuses on a criminal investigation each season. The question has been raised whether The Wire is a "cop show" or something else. Simon and every other person says it's not. You continue to focus on S1 when there are five damn seasons of the show. Every season has a deep focus on crime, not just S1. And as has been discussed, even S1 features a grander theme.

For everyone's benefit, I'm going to summarize the various threads of argument that have been carried on over the past several days.

1.) My original contention - The wire was initially conceived as a cops vs robbers show, but Simon changed his mind and made it about the rest of Baltimore as well. I based this on what was said in the IGN Interview and the original HBO pitch.
Result - I conceded that I was wrong here - one helpful poster found an interview that showed that Simon misled HBO during the initial pitch.

2.) Another contention from me - As a viewer, it was reasonable for me to keep expecting "cops vs robbers" as I eagerly awaited new Seasons. It was only after Season 3 that the show clearly revealed its grand ambitions to viewers (s2 to a lesser extent), and moved firmly out of "cops vs robbers" territory.
Result - ongoing. Nobody has come up with any concrete plot elements that show S1 as being anything more than a serialized police procedural.

3.) Contention from others in this thread - "The Wire is all about Baltimore".
Result - I'm going to claim victory here. At the very least, it is dishonest to claim that the show is "about Baltimore" when the vast majority (80%+) of the show focuses on criminals, cops or snitches. David Simon himself admits that the investigation is the "spine" of the show. It is dishonest because obviously the show has been far kinder to the cops then the school teachers, dock workers, etc - parading them around in each season.

Hopefully that is a fair summary.

 

[tnsply100]

He doesn't even have high standards. He just wants a simple black and white show of cops catching robbers, yet apparently doesn't like CSI or the other shows right up his alley. But then again he likes The Shield, which rocks.

tnsply100 have you seen Homicide? I have a feeling it's what you're looking for.

Mediocre - too much focus on personal lives of Detectives. Lacks the complexity of criminal investigation shown in S1 of the Wire (and even other crime shows like Wire in the Blood, Prime Suspect, Inspector Frost,etc).

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

I just gave you a perfectly valid example - Have the seasons span longer periods of time - have the cycle concerning the police force begin and end in Season 1 itself.
.

What cycle are you talking about? I have no clue how you would extend S1 to 5 years without taking out the only thing you seemed to enjoy about it(the in-depth look at the subject).

 

[tnsply100]

What cycle are you talking about? I have no clue how you would extend S1 to 5 years without taking out the only thing you seemed to enjoy about it(the in-depth look at the subject).

No need to have the cycle take five years in terms of the police force - Just have an 1-2 year investigation that replaces a lot of the police force ranks with replacements similar to the people replaced.

Quite frankly coming up with how Simon could've enforced his Cyclical theme isn't my problem. That certainly doesn't permit him to create a show which is 80%+ percent cops, criminals, snitches - and then go on to act like he has painted a picture of the American city (which is the attitude some posters here seem to be carrying). It is perfectly clear that it is overwhelmingly focused on only one part of the city - cops and robbers.

And anyone jarred by focus on school teachers and kids was justifiably angry - "lured by the police investigation" like Simon's pitch states.

 

[Messypandas]

2.) Another contention from me - As a viewer, it was reasonable for me to keep expecting "cops vs robbers" as I eagerly awaited new Seasons. It was only after Season 3 that the show clearly revealed its grand ambitions to viewers (s2 to a lesser extent), and moved firmly out of "cops vs robbers" territory.
Result - ongoing. Nobody has come up with any concrete plot elements that show S1 as being anything more than a serialized police procedural.

Hopefully that is a fair summary.

This is like being pissey as to why not all Beatles albums sound like Sgt Peppers. I know its unusual for a show to shift its focus mid-series (thats the American term right)?). But thats why people responded to the Wire so positively. I don't think anyones going to argue with you that the procedural element was giving less airtime throughout the progressing seasons, but theres good reason for that. We knew what the wire tap was at this point, how a case was a built and how hard it was to push it into a courtroom unscathed. The Wire is unique because it creates a formula in the first season thats not the framework for progressing seasons. The unit is disbanded, members ascend the ranks, good characters die and they're a very few - ultimately-hollow - victories. Either accept that the wire is not going to pigeon-holed as a 'cops or robbers' shows or don't, it would be an insult to label it as such.

Your third point is irrelevant.

 

[RepairmanJack]

2.) Another contention from me - As a viewer, it was reasonable for me to keep expecting "cops vs robbers" as I eagerly awaited new Seasons. It was only after Season 3 that the show clearly revealed its grand ambitions to viewers (s2 to a lesser extent), and moved firmly out of "cops vs robbers" territory.
Result - ongoing. Nobody has come up with any concrete plot elements that show S1 as being anything more than a serialized police procedural.

It was the start of a grander scale. It was the tip of the iceberg that is the drug industry and its effects on a city. Could you effectively show the rest of the focus on the series without this first season?

If you wanted to make a show about the drug industry and its effects on a city what way would be better to introduce it than at the street level? The part that everyone can see(all be it in a small scale). The show started with the simplest aspect, then each season it got deeper and deeper. Without that first season it wouldn't work as well, but that doesn't mean that the first season isn't part of something much bigger. That was obvious and evident in all facets of the show.

 

[PhoenixDark]

For everyone's benefit, I'm going to summarize the various threads of argument that have been carried on over the past several days.

1.) My original contention - The wire was initially conceived as a cops vs robbers show, but Simon changed his mind and made it about the rest of Baltimore as well. I based this on what was said in the IGN Interview and the original HBO pitch.
Result - I conceded that I was wrong here - one helpful poster found an interview that showed that Simon misled HBO during the initial pitch.

2.) Another contention from me - As a viewer, it was reasonable for me to keep expecting "cops vs robbers" as I eagerly awaited new Seasons. It was only after Season 3 that the show clearly revealed its grand ambitions to viewers (s2 to a lesser extent), and moved firmly out of "cops vs robbers" territory.
Result - ongoing. Nobody has come up with any concrete plot elements that show S1 as being anything more than a serialized police procedural.

3.) Contention from others in this thread - "The Wire is all about Baltimore".
Result - I'm going to claim victory here. At the very least, it is dishonest to claim that the show is "about Baltimore" when the vast majority (80%+) of the show focuses on criminals, cops or snitches. David Simon himself admits that the investigation is the "spine" of the show. It is dishonest because obviously the show has been far kinder to the cops then the school teachers, dock workers, etc - parading them around in each season.

Hopefully that is a fair summary.

2. There was nothing in the first two seasons that would suggest the show would become as simple as you wanted. Nothing. The theme in S2 was blatant, represented by Sobadka's character. You have yet to even respond to the theme of S1, which suggests you're simply trolling or oblivious

3. The Wire IS Baltimore. I don't think anyone is denying that except you. It's not New York, or LA - Simon has called it his love letter to his home city. The stories are based on real life Baltimore cops and criminals, many of the actors are from there, hell even the accents are heavily from Baltimore. Baltimore in many ways is the series' main character. I agree with you on Homicide, and it's an example of a show that doesn't really rely on much identity of the city - like Law & Order, which can and has been set in various cities. A good example might be The Departed or The Town, two crime films firmly rooted in a city's culture (Boston).

 

[RepairmanJack]

Mediocre - too much focus on personal lives of Detectives. Lacks the complexity of criminal investigation shown in S1 of the Wire (and even other crime shows like Wire in the Blood, Prime Suspect, Inspector Frost,etc).

Yet you somehow liked The Shield?? I honestly have no clue what you are looking for in a show. You want absolutely nothing but crime and crime being solved? Sounds boring as shit, and honestly I don't know if a show like that would ever last.

 

[Mistouze]

Rewatching season 1, still best tv series eveeeeerrrr!

Knowing what happens to the character in season 4 it's funny to see Presbo saying that "if those yo's had to deal with math or algebra the code wouldn't work".

 

[Mumei]

For everyone's benefit, I'm going to summarize the various threads of argument that have been carried on over the past several days.

1.) My original contention - The wire was initially conceived as a cops vs robbers show, but Simon changed his mind and made it about the rest of Baltimore as well. I based this on what was said in the IGN Interview and the original HBO pitch.
Result - I conceded that I was wrong here - one helpful poster found an interview that showed that Simon misled HBO during the initial pitch.

Correct. I'd argue that the IGN quote you provided said essentially the same thing in the portion you didn't bold, but perhaps wasn't as clear about that.

2.) Another contention from me - As a viewer, it was reasonable for me to keep expecting "cops vs robbers" as I eagerly awaited new Seasons. It was only after Season 3 that the show clearly revealed its grand ambitions to viewers (s2 to a lesser extent), and moved firmly out of "cops vs robbers" territory.
Result - ongoing. Nobody has come up with any concrete plot elements that show S1 as being anything more than a serialized police procedural.

It is possible that you could have expected it to continue the plot lines introduced in Season 1 immediately. I think that you did miss the point in season 1 that the show wasn't really about cops vs robbers; it was never that black and white. David Simon identifies Season 1 as being about "the dysfunction of the drug war and the general continuing theme of self-sustaining postmodern institutions devouring the individuals they are supposed to serve or who serve them." You can see this theme of institutions devouring the individuals they are supposed to serve or who serve them in both D'Angelo and McNulty; their experiences as essentially middle-management in their respective organizations parallel one another at times.

3.) Contention from others in this thread - "The Wire is all about Baltimore".
Result - I'm going to claim victory here. At the very least, it is dishonest to claim that the show is "about Baltimore" when the vast majority (80%+) of the show focuses on criminals, cops or snitches. David Simon himself admits that the investigation is the "spine" of the show. It is dishonest because obviously the show has been far kinder to the cops then the school teachers, dock workers, etc - parading them around in each season.

Hopefully that is a fair summary.

You're sort of missing the point. Each season of The Wire has some sort of investigation in it. It serves as the spine of the season. However, just because the spine of Season 1 is the investigation into Barksdale does not mean that the season is not actually about "the dysfunction of the drug war and the general continuing theme of self-sustaining postmodern institutions devouring the individuals they are supposed to serve or who serve them," a quote which I mentioned just above.

Similarly, just because the spine of Season 2 is the plot about Sobotka being investigated because of an argument with Valcheck over a church window and the investigation into the dead women in the shipping container that does not then mean that the point of season 2 was not actually "the death of work and the destruction of the American working class in the postindustrial era, for which we added the port of Baltimore."

Seasons 1 and 2 both address different problems. Season 3's investigation is about Stringer, but the point of season 3 was "the political process and the possibility of reform, for which we added the City Hall component." Season 3 addresses why the political system is unable to deal with the problems identified in Seasons 1 and 2. Season 4 is about "equal opportunity, for which we added the public-education system." It addresses how the school system fails kids, helping to create many of the problems seen in Season 1 and 2. And the final season is "about the media and our capacity to recognize and address our own realities, for which we will add the city’s daily newspaper and television components." It addresses why the media is unable to effectively cover the problems identified in the prior four seasons. Each of those seasons had their own investigations that served as the backdrop for these.

In this sense, The Wire was about Baltimore; over the course of five seasons it covered the city, with later seasons being informed by earlier seasons and informing your understanding of earlier seasons. It's a multi-layered series.

 

[Mr. Sam]

It took me an entire year, but I just finished watching all five series of this show. I've finally earned the keys to this thread. As you'd expect, I have a new favourite television show.

I've gotta say, despite being light on McNulty and being after String was killed and Barksdale put away, Series 4 was my favourite. Pryzbylewski, I think, is the character that demonstrates the most growth throughout the series. And the "kids" - introduced in Series 4 - are some of the most (if not, the most) compelling characters in the series. Michael and Duquan, particularly, were excellent.

 

[afternoon delight]

Hating on The Wire

 

[benjipwns]

Why would you compare The Wire to Boston Public?

Why would you compare ANYTHING to Boston Public?

That show didn't even start grounded in reality and went off the rails before it got out of its first season.

To think The Wire turned into it...or that season four was in any way comparable to that trainwreck even in theme. Just because you set something in a school doesn't make it the same. The Wire Season Four != Boy Meets World.

 

[Mr. Sam]

Also, did anyone have any reservations about Michael becoming "the new Omar"?

 

[Mistouze]

Also, did anyone have any reservations about Michael becoming "the new Omar"?

Well I didn't see him becoming a drug kingpin, made sense with the rest of his story arc to me.

Pryzbylewski, I think, is the character that demonstrates the most growth throughout the series.

Prezbo AND Carver. Rewatching season 1 as previously said and he's faaaaar from his season 5 self.

 

[tnsply100]

Also, did anyone have any reservations about Michael becoming "the new Omar"?

Yup. Let's go from "betrayed by the Marlo crew" to "rob drug dealers with a shotgun, and shoot people in the leg". Heaven knows there is nothing else he could've done in the whole damn city aside from robbing drug dealers... writers had done nothing to lay the foundation for him turning into the new Omar (someone who rips and runs)

Same with Marlo - no foundation for him turning into a businessman. Why he isn't spending his millions gambling, taking care of pigeons, is beyond me. But no... we obviously needed to have a parallel with another 'businessman' and then make grandiose claims about him "getting everything the former businessman wanted!! how ironically brilliant!!".

Sigh.

Heh... I wish I'd saved my rant about the complete nonsense that we saw in Season 5 (I had a post on another forum titled "Writers shine shit and call it Season 5").

It was clear that the writers lost all sense of plot, and went overboard trying to beat the "its all a cycle" horse theme into the ground. So much for "fuck the average viewer" who needs everything explained to him...

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Same with Marlo - no foundation for him turning into a businessman. Why he isn't spending his millions gambling, taking care of pigeons, is beyond me. But no... we obviously needed to have a parallel with another 'businessman' and then make grandiose claims about him "getting everything the former businessman wanted!! how ironically brilliant!!".

Uh... what? That didn't happen... Dude, I wasn't giving you much credibility before, but you've gone into negative territory now.

 

[tnsply100]

Uh... what? That didn't happen... Dude, I wasn't giving you much credibility before, but you've gone into negative territory now.

? I'm confused. You're claiming Marlo didn't try to become a businessman?

 

[afternoon delight]

Also, did anyone have any reservations about Michael becoming "the new Omar"?

No. Seems like a likely path that formed Omar: reacting to the environment after learning a few things.

Edit:

? I'm confused. You're claiming Marlo didn't try to become a businessman?

I'm confused - did you not see him leave a business meeting, with no care in the world, and immediately end up on a corner? And did you not hear him say the exact same thing to Prop Joe before he did the deed?

Do you understand anything in subtext, whatsoever? Or are you one of those people who needed a voiceover from Marlo saying "This is me. This is where I truly am."

 

[RepairmanJack]

Uh... what? That didn't happen... Dude, I wasn't giving you much credibility before, but you've gone into negative territory now.

Yeah I agree. Marlo came out of the meeting and beat the crap out of someone, I took that as showing he could not get out of his old habits. That he was trying to force himself out of the streets but it wouldn't happen. I think it made perfect sense for the character at that point.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

? I'm confused. You're claiming Marlo didn't try to become a businessman?

Yes, I am claiming that. Prop Joe tried to turn him into one, and Marlo pretty much refused, showing a) when he was in jail that all he cared about was the relevance of his name in the street and b) when he beat that dude up that all he cared about was getting his corners.

He's a thug, and he doesn't want Swiss bank accounts and shit.

 

[tnsply100]

I'm confused - did you not see him leave a business meeting, with no care in the world, and immediately end up on a corner? And did you not hear him say the exact same thing to Prop Joe before he did the deed?

Do you understand anything in subtext, whatsoever? Or are you one of those people who needed a voiceover from Marlo saying "This is me. This is where I truly am."

Simon has said that he intended the scene to be 'ambiguous' - several people read that trip as Marlo just 'stepping outside to check whether he still has it'.

In either case, it is completely irrelevant. Why did Marlo even try to get into the meeting with Levy in the first place? He had shown zero aspirations toward turning into a businessman.

 

[tnsply100]

Yes, I am claiming that. Prop Joe tried to turn him into one, and Marlo pretty much refused, showing a) when he was in jail that all he cared about was the relevance of his name in the street and b) when he beat that dude up that all he cared about was getting his corners.

He's a thug, and he doesn't want Swiss bank accounts and shit.

Then you're dead wrong - read his talk with Slim Charles. He says he's going to be a businessman. And then of course, he goes to the meeting to try and get into business with Levy's help. Explain why he attended the meeting and why was he meeting with developers?

There was no foundation for him even trying to be a businessman - and read the above post - the final Marlo scene was ambiguous. It was not intended by Simon to clearly mean he is getting out of business.

Yeah I agree. Marlo came out of the meeting and beat the crap out of someone, I took that as showing he could not get out of his old habits.

Read David Simon's own comments about the scene.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Simon has said that he intended the scene to be 'ambiguous' - several people read that trip as Marlo just 'stepping outside to check whether he still has it'.

In either case, it is completely irrelevant. Why did Marlo even try to get into the meeting with Levy in the first place? He had shown zero aspirations toward turning into a businessman.

What else was he going to do? It's the natural step. He was always looking to move up: take over a corner, take over a neighborhood, take over a city... what comes next? Sitting back and letting the money come to you. So he went for it. But he didn't like it -- he found out that he just likes taking corners and, like I said, being a thug.

 

[tnsply100]

What else was he going to do? It's the natural step.

Hah.. "Natural Step" ... Bullcrap. He even says himself "can't wrap my head around it either" to Slim Charles. It was anything but natural.

He could've done anything under the world with his millions - gamble, take care of pigeons, improve his golf game, spend it on rims..... I don't care.

The fact of the matter is the writers had laid no foundation for him even trying to hobnob with developers... they set it up just to draw a parallel with Stringer. It was pathetic.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Then you're dead wrong - read his talk with Slim Charles. He says he's going to be a businessman. And then of course, he goes to the meeting to try and get into business with Levy's help. Explain why he attended the meeting and why was he meeting with developers?

There was no foundation for him even trying to be a businessman - and read the above post - the final Marlo scene was ambiguous. It was not intended by Simon to clearly mean he is getting out of business.

He had been forced out of the game, therefore needed a legitimate money source. Just as Levy was doing for Stringer(& Avon) he set up the meets for Marlo. It is perfectly clear that at the meeting Marlo has no interest in it & then leaves (contrast that to Stringer who desperately wants to be in that world but isn't respected in it)

 

[RepairmanJack]

He had been forced out of the game, therefore needed a legitimate money source. Just as Levy was doing for Stringer(& Avon) he set up the meets for Marlo. It is perfectly clear that at the meeting Marlo has no interest in it & then leaves (contrast that to Stringer who desperately wants to be in that world but isn't respected in it)

Exactly this. Also in Simons comments, that tnsply is referring to,he stated this was his intent. That Marlo was forced from his power and was given this business aspect and he wanted no part in it. That is the point.

 

[tnsply100]

He had been forced out of the game, therefore needed a legitimate money source. Just as Levy was doing for Stringer(& Avon) he set up the meets for Marlo. It is perfectly clear that at the meeting Marlo has no interest in it & then leaves (contrast that to Stringer who desperately wants to be in that world but isn't respected in it)

Why does he need a legitimate money source? Even if he did.. why does he turn to business with developers? Why doesn't he play with stocks or any other investments? Why doesn't he try at winning with gambling? He has millions already and is making interest on that through banks.

If you're trying to tell me that any guy with millions who cannot deal drugs in Baltimore MUST logically start hobnobbing with developers, I simply don't believe you.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

You can't call this shit a war


Why not?


Because Wars end.

 

[Dabanton]

What the hell is going on in here?

 

[afternoon delight]

The Wire has found it's erigru, evidently.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

Why does he need a legitimate money source? Even if he did.. why does he turn to business with developers? Why doesn't he play with stocks or any other investments? Why doesn't he try at winning with gambling? He has millions already and is making interest on that through banks.

If you're trying to tell me that any guy with millions who cannot deal drugs in Baltimore MUST logically start hobnobbing with developers, I simply don't believe you.

I would assume tax laws, & don't forget that he would need to lauder the money he receives from selling the contact to the collective. Also who said anything about must? His money launderer was dead, his only contact outside the game is Levy. What else is Levy going to advise? There were plenty of scenes that showed property developers making money in B'more, there was still plenty to be made, its fairly logical.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Why does he need a legitimate money source? Even if he did.. why does he turn to business with developers? Why doesn't he play with stocks or any other investments? Why doesn't he try at winning with gambling? He has millions already and is making interest on that through banks.

If you're trying to tell me that any guy with millions who cannot deal drugs in Baltimore MUST logically start hobnobbing with developers, I simply don't believe you.

When you've spent your whole life looking over your shoulder and wondering when someone's going to kick in your door while you're sleeping, don't you think that every kingpin is looking for a way to get some peace? They all get tired of living the life. Because they get tired, they either: get killed by making a misstep; get caught by being lazy or careless; or try to move up in the world so they don't have to worry as much. It's only after Marlo tried it that he realized it wasn't for him.

 

[theignoramus]

the way that scene plays out, it's clear that Levy, not Marlo, took the initiative in setting that meeting up. Why does Marlo accept business advice from the lawyer who kept out him out of prison, the lawyer who happens to be an insider among the Baltimore elite? gee, that's a question to ponder.
Look, this is absurd. Your arguments are reductive and pedantic, your points insignificant. You have nothing to say beyond trivial nitpicks that dont even stand up to a bit of scrutiny.

 

[tnsply100]

I would assume tax laws, & don't forget that he would need to lauder the money he receives from selling the contact to the collective. Also who said anything about must? His money launderer was dead, his only contact outside the game is Levy. What else is Levy going to advise? There were plenty of scenes that showed property developers making money in B'more, there was still plenty to be made, its fairly logical.

Prop Joe never laundered money for Marlo - ever. He pointed him to offshore accounts that could not be touched - that's not laundering.

Right... Marlo suddenly starts worrying about tax laws. Don't buy it. There was no need to hobnob with developers before (its not like 'drug dealer' shielded him from having to worry about tax laws before). And, there is no need to worry about now that he is NOT dealing drugs.

There is no need for advice from Levy because Marlo has no need for advice. He can take his cash from underneath the mattresses and his offshore accounts and start gambling them away from day one.

There is no logical jump between "can't deal drugs" to "must hobnob with developers" - regardless of what type of roundabout 'assumptions' you try to make.

When you've spent your whole life looking over your shoulder and wondering when someone's going to kick in your door while you're sleeping, don't you think that every kingpin is looking for a way to get some peace? They all get tired of living the life. Because they get tired, they either: get killed by making a misstep; get caught by being lazy or careless; or try to move up in the world so they don't have to worry as much. It's only after Marlo tried it that he realized it wasn't for him.

He can get plenty of peace by gambling, taking care of pigeons, and anything else under the sun. - Even him "thinking about peace" would need some real foundation that the show never laid down.

But trying to show that suddenly wakes up and says "turn businessman and hobnob with developers" for peace makes no sense.

Writing a plot is a lot like writing a mathematical proof. You go from step A to B to C and so on, where every step logically leads to the next.

What you have here is a jump from A to C (otherwise known as a plothole) - and you and the other posters trying to concoct a possible step B that was never in the source material of the show.

The same crap occurred with Prez... a fuck up of a cop who kills an officer, blinds a kid because he looked at him the wrong way, and is mentally unstable suddenly turns into "bright eyed teacher caring all about kids futures". And this was done of course because one of the writers went from cop to teacher.

 

[dave is ok]

Prop Joe never laundered money for Marlo - ever. He pointed him to offshore accounts that could not be touched - that's not laundering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xb0t78FAo0

At least watch the show before discussing it

 

[tnsply100]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xb0t78FAo0

At least watch the show before discussing it

Can't watch the scene now - will be happy to address it in a few hours. If you describe the contents of the vid, I'd be able to respond faster.

 

[RepairmanJack]

He can get plenty of peace by gambling, taking care of pigeons

Why do you just keep repeating these things? It just makes you seem more like a troll. You have put it in almost all of your posts referring to Marlo and it really doesn't make sense. Gambling and pigeons is his major interests? Is that seriously how you understood the character?

 

[dave is ok]

Can't watch the scene now - will be happy to address it in a few hours.

It's an offshore account, but it's clearly money laundering - he does it through a church

 

[tnsply100]

Why do you just keep repeating these things? It just makes you seem more like a troll. You have put it in almost all of your posts referring to Marlo and it really doesn't make sense. Gambling and pigeons is his major interests? Is that seriously how you understood the character?

It should be obvious that you can substitute 'anything and everything under the sun' there. Marlo can spend his time doing anything except drugs.

 

[RepairmanJack]

It should be obvious that you can substitute 'anything and everything under the sun' there. Marlo can spend his time doing anything except drugs.

You said "Gambling and taking care of pigeons" about four or five times. Seems.....stupid.

 

[tnsply100]

It's an offshore account, but it's clearly money laundering - he does it through a church

Now you're going to argue about the meaning of 'money laundering'? Read my quote.

Prop Joe never laundered money for Marlo - ever. He pointed him to offshore accounts that could not be touched - that's not laundering.

I don't care if you call that 'money laundering'. The fact of the matter is Prop Joe's death was in no way, shape, or form justification for Marlo trying to hobnob with the developers (which is what I was trying to counter from the other poster).

 

[tnsply100]

You said "Gambling and taking care of pigeons" about four or five times. Seems.....stupid.

What was stupid was Marlo and his crew receiving a pitiful amount of screentime (incomparison to Barksdales) because the show had to waste time on these other irrelevant (or so I claim) plotlines. But.. not going to start that again..

 

[dave is ok]

Now you're going to argue about the meaning of 'money laundering'? Read my quote

Your quote was that Prop Joe NEVER laundered money for Marlo, the scene I linked clearly shows him doing just that. He even says 'This guy is one of three people I visit who clean my money'.

 

[theignoramus]

The same crap occurred with Prez... a fuck up of a cop who kills an officer, blinds a kid because he looked at him the wrong way, and is mentally unstable suddenly turns into "bright eyed teacher caring all about kids futures". And this was done of course because one of the writers went from cop to teacher.

this isnt even an argument. All you are saying is " I dont accept the legitimacy of the turn of events in that character's arc, therefore it's crap"

 

[YoungHav]

This deserves a new thread: A conservative watches the Wire

lmao.

Finally, The Wire has never been about "cops vs robbers" which is a rapper simplistic way of looking at it. Simon has said his intention was for each season to have a theme, whether it was reform, schools, media, etc.

:-( why did you have to throw in rapper? lol

No. I "get it". Its just that I don't give a crap about why black kids are turning to crime.

What the hell? I'm suddenly a conservative now - just because I find that Simon's show tries to lean too far to the left? Wow.

what is left leaning? This is what goes on objectively you troll. I hope your white guilt gives you hemorrhoids.

 

[PhoenixDark]

this isnt even an argument. All you are saying is " I dont accept the legitimacy of the turn of events in that character's arc, therefore it's crap"

It's closed minded, simple stuff. Prez becoming a security guard for instance would make little to no sense. Prez trying to reform himself and becoming a teacher, and beginning to despise the police "game"? It makes enough sense. A show doesn't have to hold the viewer's hand, as Simon would say. It doesn't have to have one 30sec scene where Prez says "you know, one day I'd like to be a teacher."

Same thing with the Marlo incident. Because Marlo's two recreational, physical actions were caring for pigeons and gambling, they completely describe his character? Good luck passing a literature class with that type of mindset. Simon has called Marlo a mixture of Stringer and Avon; he's the ultimate gangster in some ways.

Marlo becoming a "businessman" has little to do with some willingness to move from the game, like Stringer. He moves into that avenue so he can actually spend his money and make it work for him. He's the most cautious (non-Greek) criminal in the series. Compare that to Stringer, who seemed like he truly wanted to leave the game but simply wasn't smart enough to play the new one. Marlo was too deeply rooted in the streets to fully commit to the real estate/business scam.