tnsply100 said:
I won't address Carver, but I see nothing in the show that makes me think Prez became a better person (until close of S3). I don't see any indication of sincere remorse for blinding the kid, and its perfectly obvious that his temper is uncontrolled (he punched Valchek.. I know he deserved it.. but still).
Please provide a list of items that Prez does until Season 3's close that indicates his character has improved. (and no, becoming useful to the investigation and taking advice from Freamon on cop issues does not count(.
You need to rewatch the series, then. Compare Prez at the beginning of Season 1 to even the start of Season 2, and he's not the same person he was.
What are the chances of five people independently picking a number from 1-200 and coming up with the same one? (the odds here are worse then the above situation.. but lets stick with this as a reasonable simulation).
Picking numbers at random and coming up with the same number is not equivalent to what happened here.
Prez became a teacher at a Baltimore public school. Unless you can think of a reason why it is unreasonable for him to have become a public teacher - and you haven't; your objection amounts to little more than a whine that you don't understand. I don't recall how Cutty ended up at the school or when Prez investigated him; Cutty was just getting out of prison after a fourteen year prison sentence. For an black ex-felon to move back into a poor black neighborhood is not exactly shocking or surprising. And Cutty wasn't married; his ex-girlfriend had become a school teacher in the fourteen years they'd been separated. She was the teacher there before Cutty was released; it wasn't some sudden transfer. She was teaching there before Prez began teaching; she helped him out early on. Judging from that, it's possible that Cutty was simply moving back into the area he lived before he went to prison and his ex-girlfriend was teaching in that area because, you know, she lived there. So nothing objectionable about those two.
Colvin was introduced by the Deacon to the academic who was trying to look at repeat violent offenders; Colvin convinced him that they'd need to look at younger kids to effect any change. According to the Wiki, Colvin actually suggests Tilghman MS, though I don't recall if that is accurate.
And Bubbles is something of a vagrant, so the show can have him move from place to place and not have it be unrealistic.
A few perfectly reasonable occurences, a few possibly convenient coincidences, and nothing that couldn't happen in reality. What is your objection?
I know what you said - my intention was to make it clear that nothing I say here (right or wrong) should cause any mental burden to you. If it does, I suggest just ignoring me. When people say "its hard to think of X", I tend to think there is some harm/strain. This is just a meaningless conversation with a potential forum troll.
Are you identifying me as a forum troll?
Really?
I stopped addressing this line of argument because it would involve repetition that would only go nowhere. Themes need to be completely ignored when trying to classify a show - only plot elements should be considered. I could just as easily pick one or more Law and order/Homicide/etc episodes and point out the very theme you've described. I deal with concrete plot - and as far as plot is concerned, I saw a wiretap case with incompetent bosses, snitches, smart criminals, and deep plot complexity - I call that a police procedural. Showing that a police case failed to make any real dent in the drug business is NOT beyond the scope of police procedurals - several Law and Order episodes do this.
If we keep obfuscating the discussion by bringing in talk of themes - we'll get nowhere.
There's nothing obfuscating about talk about themes. The theme is the unifying subject of the story; if you don't understand and cannot correctly identify the themes in a story, you don't have a complete understanding of that story.
I think we need to differentiate between an episodic police procedural like Law & Order and a serialized series like The Wire. In L&O, they are usually taking a case from real life and fictionalizing it. They usually have scenes where the characters (who have developed pre-defined roles; you know that Character A will be arguing one position, Character B will argue another, etc.) will have expository dialogue explaining the issue and the arguments. But there is nothing that unifies that entire series, no larger message intended for the audience. L&O is about idealized detectives in an idealized system that usually works. There's nothing beyond that. There isn't really a theme beyond "we're trying to imitate a case from real life."
While some plot elements exist in both, The Wire is about something larger than the individual plot points. The serialized nature of the series allows the show to build on itself, so that it becomes more than the sum of its parts. In Season 1, for instance, there are individual plot lines that could generally be seen in Law & Order. The elements about bosses being generally corrupt is a stretch; in the Law & Order series, institutions, the people they served and are served by are generally shown to be benign, even inherently good, even though there are occasionally episodes with exceptions. Even those episodes portray those as being the exception to the rule. And Law & Order does not have deep plot complexity. And Law & Order does not portray getting a wire as being a particularly difficult task. But let's agree that your claim that smart criminals and showing how a police investigation failed to dent the drug trade are elements that could be found in Law & Order. However, The Wire's first season is also about something larger - the way that postmodern institutions devour those they are supposed to serve or who serve them. It's the way that the war on drugs ends up victimizing those it is supposed to be benefiting, how the system punishes those who try to do the right thing (even for the wrong reasons), and how institutions seem to take on a life of their own. These are elements that are built up over the course of the season and aren't generally portrayed in normal police procedurals.
Even when they occasionally appear in L&O, they are shown as anomalies. L&O portrays a system that works and is self-correcting; The Wire portrays a system that is broken and beyond fixing.
And really, I have to ask again: Where you
really trying to call me a troll?
