That's crazy. It probably wasn't cheap for the new company (Ys Net, IIRC).
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Launching a Kickstarter campaign on an E3 press conference
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
That's crazy. It probably wasn't cheap for the new company (Ys Net, IIRC).
[/QUOTE]QUOTE=shinobi602;168208598]Just for those wondering about the 'budget':
THANK YOU! People don't realize that this is being used to gauge if people REALLY do want the game and its not just a vocal minority. I think this should be done a little more often with niche franchises to get our damn points across. Some people may find it scummy, I don't cause I'll finally be able to vote with my wallet and show that company I want it.
A Shenmue Kickstarter with no marketing was risky and I suspect that might be one of the reasons it has happened before.
Sony (like all other publishers) probably felt that Shenmue 3 would be quite a project for a very vocal fan base, but how large the fan base is? No one knows. It wasn't large enough to make the first two installments super hits.
This is definitely a win-win proposal. Sony announces it in E3 and it gets a huge push out of the gate (breaking the Internet, both NeoGAF and Kickstarter went down). 2 million is probably not enough to make the game, Sony is definitely chipping in. But if there is not enough interest in the fan base to put up 2 million then Sony can still get out with the proof that there is not enough interest.
It is at 1.1million currently. so Shenmue 3 will happen.
I don't mind if they do the same with Crash Bandicoot, Dark Cloud 3 or a new Wipeout.
Sony (like all other publishers) probably felt that Shenmue 3 would be quite a project for a very vocal fan base, but how large the fan base is? No one knows. It wasn't large enough to make the first two installments super hits.
This is definitely a win-win proposal. Sony announces it in E3 and it gets a huge push out of the gate (breaking the Internet, both NeoGAF and Kickstarter went down). 2 million is probably not enough to make the game, Sony is definitely chipping in. But if there is not enough interest in the fan base to put up 2 million then Sony can still get out with the proof that there is not enough interest.
It is at 1.1million currently. so Shenmue 3 will happen.
I don't mind if they do the same with Crash Bandicoot, Dark Cloud 3 or a new Wipeout.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
i see nothing wrong with
some people just like making a mountain from a molehill.
almost sounds like some people would rather not see the game made just cause they think it's unethical
not a fan of this franchise myself but at least it gives me a pleasant feeling that it's probably gonna be made for the fans of this series
some people just like making a mountain from a molehill.
almost sounds like some people would rather not see the game made just cause they think it's unethical
not a fan of this franchise myself but at least it gives me a pleasant feeling that it's probably gonna be made for the fans of this series
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Yep. Feels like the moment kickstarting games jumps the shark.
This whole having a company kickstart the remaining budget of a game doesn't sit well with me.
there's nothing that obligates them to share exactly what was the deal here
why is it PC/PS4, how much money is Sony putting on this, what's the split, what's it actually gonna cost, big big etc
what's happening right now is that if there is actually an exclusivity deal / money swapping hands BEFORE this was announced is that we're just minimizing risk for Sony by doing it for them and making them look like heroes without knowing what they actually did at all
this without mentioning what the success might mean for this type of stuff going forward
I get not caring, being ok with it, etc, but asking what's "sneaky" about it?
why is it PC/PS4, how much money is Sony putting on this, what's the split, what's it actually gonna cost, big big etc
what's happening right now is that if there is actually an exclusivity deal / money swapping hands BEFORE this was announced is that we're just minimizing risk for Sony by doing it for them and making them look like heroes without knowing what they actually did at all
this without mentioning what the success might mean for this type of stuff going forward
I get not caring, being ok with it, etc, but asking what's "sneaky" about it?
That's pretty arbitrary. Obviously, ShenMue 3 would have hit its funding goals, but in order to be a big enough Kickstarter story to be worth a stage only a game like ShenMue 3 could have been there.
I have no problem with this at all, and that goes for any show that wants to launch any kind of Kickstarter. Provided the Kickstarter is legit and not a scam.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
It most likely has a 2 million goal because some company is gauging interest, that wasent up for debate and doesnt really have to do with what I said.
InsaneZero
Member
Yeah, that was a bad example. The one important thing that I just wanted to highlight is the likelihood of the project not ending well, and how publishers can push the damage to the community while still gaining something from it.
A better example would be if The Last Guardian had been introduced as a Kickstarter way back in its PS3 debut.
same.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I think a lot of people are aware of this practice, but maybe not the specifics. They just don't like it.
Personally I don't care.
Although I think it is silly.
I also lean more towards this just being a PR stunt rather than anything else. They can claim they raised 2m in kickstarter over x days. Really irrelevant. They claim it won't be made if it doesn't reach their goal, but everyone involved already knows it will.
KevMan1815
Member
I'm okay with how it was shown at the conference. I don't think this is exactly setting up a situation where E3 conferences will become pitches to sell Kickstarter projects. I do think it was a little odd to have the game introduced this way though. I can't see many projects outside of Shenmue getting away with it at least.
qa_engineer
Member
I'm reading posts about marketing moves leaving a sour taste in peoples mouths. Are you kidding me? This whole event is a marketing move. Everything you're seeing is one giant fucking marketing move to sell you consoles, games, third part peripherals, services, and brands.
Le_Samourai
Banned
This, and no way 2/4 million are enough, so maybe Sony is involve.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Well sure, on E3. We're talking about kickstarter though.
I think it is obvious they are involved. Reveal on their stage. Game is coming to ps4 but not xb1/wiiu.
DannyDanger
Member
Are ppl really complaining about this?
I genuinely cannot believe it
I genuinely cannot believe it
It's really weird, if you think about it. The KS page mentions "modern platforms (PC and PS4)". But it runs on UE4, and there are other platforms which are supported by Epic. Take Iga's project: it was PC/XONE/PS4 out of the box, and stretch goals added platforms which weren't even supported officially by Epic/UE4 (Wii U and Vita). In Shenmue's case, there's not even a discussion on why at least the Xbox One isn't being considered (you'd think a FAQ of any sorts - that's in name only, of course - would mention it).
TheSpoiler
Member
Still not a good example. TLG was game developed in house with development issues, and effectively a brand new IP from a well known developer who recently dropped some HD collections of said games.
This is some guy on the outside with a niche title, who had to get the rights from Sega and then shop this shit to investors.
Shenmue is its own event. You might compare it to Bloodstained, actually, since that one had a secret investor.
I'm not sure I really understand this. People keep talking about how companies using Kickstarter to gauge interest is a bad thing, but I still don't understand why that is exactly.
Can someone help me understand what the negative results of this might be? I mean, we're getting games that otherwise wouldn't get produced, and the people who back on Kickstarter are still getting their copy, most likely at a much cheaper cost than buying retail. Where's the downside?
Which part of this are you taking issue with? If it released tomorrow you'd still have to pay for it, most likely for about twice the cost of getting a copy for backing on Kickstarter.
qa_engineer
Member
Most likely the fact that the kickstarter doesn't list their platform of choice. I'd start there.
I can see why this could not sit well with people, but to me if it's either something like this where they need to clear a goal to get a company backing by showing there is enough demand to actually make the game and allowing the fans to put their money with their mouth is or not getting the game at all I'd much rather go this route.
I mean with this route if they stop making the game we can sue them MWA HA HA HA (it's really in kickstarters terms, they have to provide a finish product they can be sued) I'd imagine capcom would have been less likely to cancel mega man legends 3 due to a grudge if they would have had to give back millions of dollars to do so
Despite my own statements being similar to yours I will raise the question... Are we?
Is this really a case where this game wouldn't be produced without kickstarter?
2 million is a pitiful amount to cover a game like this, if you are just worried about interest in the game you could always open a sign up sheet saying if we reach X amount of promises to buy in the future we will fund it, or just take the risk with a well balanced budget knowing that as long as this game looks decent the fanbase should buy it up.
And you say a cheaper cost than buying at retail, but again is it?
a $60 physical PC version isn't cheaper than retail, it's the same price, and with preorder bonuses of GCU unlocked it's more. and while the ps4 version is $29, well have they strictly said this was going to be a full blown release? What if it's merely a $20 digital title with a modest budget? I mean Plat-games Legend of Korra game was quite often called a full fledged game by the creators and then released as a $15 downloadable title.
I mean obviously this will get funded, and given the creators it should turn out fine, but I mean for the purposes of making games that wouldn't other wise be made. well the games that will make massive budgets like this will always be the ones with famous creators that people trust to back, you know the exact same people that companies would trust to back to make new games. While I share the same idea that if the game wouldn't be made without this that this isn't a bad thing, at the same time not only could it easily be seen as a grey path, it could also easily be abused by companies as it gives them a chance to get people with a lot of money a chance to spend $300+ on a game that without a path like this they would have just bought at a normal price or maybe bought a collectors version. I mean with the bloodstained kickstarter you saw people pledging thousands to get their own weapons or animals in the game, which is a cool thing if the money isn't a big deal, but wouldn't be remotely possible with a traditional release.
anyways I rambled a bit so hopefully things are clear enough >.>
For Shenmue it's fine. That game was NEVER going to get traditional funding. The internet loves to get nostalgic about games no one cared about but there's a reason there wasn't another one for over a decade. No publisher was ever going to risk it. At least this way it also gives the game a bigger platform to get noticed as opposed to just throwing it up on KS and hoping reddit/NeoGAF can spread the word.
now if next year Sony is up there pushing a kickstarter for a new Killzone then it's time to start worrying.
now if next year Sony is up there pushing a kickstarter for a new Killzone then it's time to start worrying.
IrishNinja
Member
TALK TO EM FAM
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
This is precisely what the discussion needs... lets turn it into a console piss war.
Well, that escalated fast.jpeg.
I'm tkaing issue with the idea of using E3 as a platform to get other people to fund development for games on your own system. E3 is for showing off what is coming. What is already funded and being developed its not for announcing a game so many people want only to tell them they have to fund it. If Sony wanted to have Shenmue 3 in their E3 conference they shouldve have funded the development their damn selves. Using E3 as a platform to promote kickstarters is a new low for the industry. I am disgusted.
If we're imagining this is a game on the scope of the originals, and with more modern visuals, the cost of development will probably be ten times, twenty times more than the KS goal -- maybe more. $20 million sounds modest for this. Which calls into question lots of things in my mind.
Do you've no pity ? That dev waited 14 years, ofc he would put his pride away and make that sort of deal after so long. 14 years, 14 YEARS MAN!!
I would've agreed with you if it was Mass Effect 4 but not on this one.
Yeah, this is literally the only valid way to vote with your wallet. It directly assigns a dollar value to how much you value a game. I personally think it's a great idea.
qa_engineer
Member
This is precisely what the discussion needs... lets turn it into a console piss war.
Well, that escalated fast.jpeg.
Just stating my opinion just like you. I've yet to see one argument as to why using a kickstarter to gauge interest in a series that was once though dead is a bad thing.
InsaneZero
Member
Bloodstained is actually something that I appreciate simply because the publisher was not in focus for most of the Kickstarter duration.
In essence though, I think it just really boils down to me not liking how publishers can push part of their duties as a publisher to me while getting full credit for doing a job that they haven't really started on yet. Maybe that's just me being strange.
people would be OK with valve having a HL3 kickstarter with the amount of money they make?
if that is true then GAF has lost it
It was a pretty weird thing, for sure. And it's not like Shenmue wasn't going to get funded or given a spotlight by the internet otherwise. I think it's cool that the game is getting made (coming from someone that's never played them, but constantly hears about it. Thanks internet), and I'm sure by the time I wake up in the morning the game will be far and away from its goal mark.
I don't know. Sony didn't have much for this year and since the announcement of the console, the company has kind of made it it's policy to please their fans in anyway possible, even if it doesn't benefit them financially.
I don't know. Sony didn't have much for this year and since the announcement of the console, the company has kind of made it it's policy to please their fans in anyway possible, even if it doesn't benefit them financially.
MrCunningham
Member
Yooka-Laylee was the fastest gaming related kickstarter to hit one million, and it did that in under 10 hours. Shenmue 3 cracked that record in... less than an hour? Shenmue 3 went beyond breaking game-related records to just breaking records in general. I'm sure it is not the fastest to reach one million overall, but it is up there. Possibly even in the top 5.
I don't think that type of word of mouth could be achieved through just a twitter post. Word of mouth would have obviously still spread fast, but not on this level of magnitude.
Well Sony does love to make themselves look like the hero at E3, as evidence in E3 2013 where they promoted a non feature as the greatest thing ever. With The Last Guardian, FF7 remake and this, they were clearly aiming to up that ante.
Do you see the problem here?
The platforms have (seemingly) already been decided, despite the game not existing. In any form. At all.
If you're looking to gauge interest, how have the platforms already been decided? That's why there are questions.
PsychoSoldier
Banned
There was a very high chance that no one, including Sony, would be able to justify the budget for the full game to the money men at their companies, so what they did was give the crowdfunding a huge huge huge amount of exposure to help gauge interest.
Seems like a win/win for everyone.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
In 10 years E3 will be a telethon.
We've had things called preorders to gauge public interest for decades, and you can preorder digital titles as well. Why do we need to have people spend more than the game costs to gauge interest? Want to gauge interest then say if you preorder you get the game early or you get DLC bonuses. Having hardcore fans donate thousands for a game that is really being backed by a major publisher/platform is simply exploiting hardcore fans. Bad precedent.
Every major franchise that has been absent for a decade or more you could drain the bank accounts of gamers with. Give us $10K to show us how much you really want this game.
We've had things called preorders to gauge public interest for decades, and you can preorder digital titles as well. Why do we need to have people spend more than the game costs to gauge interest? Want to gauge interest then say if you preorder you get the game early or you get DLC bonuses. Having hardcore fans donate thousands for a game that is really being backed by a major publisher/platform is simply exploiting hardcore fans. Bad precedent.
Every major franchise that has been absent for a decade or more you could drain the bank accounts of gamers with. Give us $10K to show us how much you really want this game.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
I'm a little confused in regards to the development of Shenmue 3?
Isn't $2 million low for such a game, or is it very much like the Bloodstained kickstarter?
Reach a certain goal and the remaining will be funded by its publisher?
In this case, who is the publisher, Sony, Sega? I mean, the details are quite limited.
Isn't $2 million low for such a game, or is it very much like the Bloodstained kickstarter?
Reach a certain goal and the remaining will be funded by its publisher?
In this case, who is the publisher, Sony, Sega? I mean, the details are quite limited.
Okay, so I think your issue is that you don't like Sony earning good publicity for a project they aren't actually investing money in? I guess I can understand that. It also seems like maybe you're not a fan of crowdfunding in general (correct me if I'm wrong).
How would you feel if you found out that Sony had already struck a deal to drop a ton more money on the project if they hit the Kickstarter goal, as many people here are theorising? Would that make you feel any better about the arrangement?
It does not sit well with me too because it's like announcing the imaginary Half Life 3 kickstarter on Microsoft Xbox conference and says "COMING FIRST ON MICROSOFT PLATFORM WINDOW 12" or something and make it seems like they are affiliated with the game somehow when that might not even be true.A very clever marketing stunt but still sneaky.
There would be a ton of hats, but it would have a few mil funded with backlash. I'm agreeing it doesn't make sense for them to do.
I have no horse in this race and I think that's known
but if Sony really were going about this in a community first way and trying to earn their praise, I see no reason why not to be more transparent about what's going on here or how involved they truly are.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
I don't think it's too dodgy given this kickstarter would've been successfully funded regardless and the Sony connection gave them another big surprise alongside FF7/The Last Guardian to throw in, but there's no way a conference-announced kickstarter would've worked without a massive backlash with any other game.
Even a crowdfunded Half-Life 3 would have people demanding to know why Gabe couldn't finance it himself.
Even a crowdfunded Half-Life 3 would have people demanding to know why Gabe couldn't finance it himself.