MistakenMobius
Member
Could all those people be the next generation of Neo-Con like the Trotskist of the 70's turned out?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Left Outside the Social-Justice Movement's Small Tent (The Atlantic)
- Thread starter Piecake
- Start date
- Status
Some young people today have an extreme intolerance to discomfort of any kind and instead of understanding this may at times be unreasonable and making an effort to overcome it, they try to force the rest of the world into their comfort zone. It's really a selfcentered and not sustainable attitude that can only exist in bubbles.
Same goes with some of their opinions, which they hold as untouchable dogmas to the point they complete dismiss any possible debate and instead combat any opposing ideas with censorship, screams and insulting labels.
I wonder what will happen when they fully become functioning adults and have to deal on their own with the variety, complexity and rudeness of real life or start acquiring positions of power.
As an old leftist it's sad to see the young supposed left use the same tactics of censorship, lies, false outrage and silencing the authoritarian right-wing dictatorships thrived in not long ago, something these young generations haven't experienced. I guess it's all part of the cycle and, sadly, it wouldn't surprise me to see history repeat itself soon.
Same goes with some of their opinions, which they hold as untouchable dogmas to the point they complete dismiss any possible debate and instead combat any opposing ideas with censorship, screams and insulting labels.
I wonder what will happen when they fully become functioning adults and have to deal on their own with the variety, complexity and rudeness of real life or start acquiring positions of power.
As an old leftist it's sad to see the young supposed left use the same tactics of censorship, lies, false outrage and silencing the authoritarian right-wing dictatorships thrived in not long ago, something these young generations haven't experienced. I guess it's all part of the cycle and, sadly, it wouldn't surprise me to see history repeat itself soon.
jackissocool
Member
How much are people who make these complaints actually involved I real life activism? I suppose if you spend your time tweeting for a better world this is the shit you might see (though I rarely do). But in my actual real world activism I've only ever met one person who even approached the "tumblr sjw" stereotype, and she just had silly opinions and a weird fixation on tiny specific language - no outrageous screaming or being "shrill" (which is always targeted at women btw).
No, for the most part the groups I've been involved in always try as hard as possible to be welcoming and thrive on open debate with people who disagree. And yes, I was on a college campus. The shit discussed in articles like this is wildly overblown outrage used to discredit the left.
No, for the most part the groups I've been involved in always try as hard as possible to be welcoming and thrive on open debate with people who disagree. And yes, I was on a college campus. The shit discussed in articles like this is wildly overblown outrage used to discredit the left.
This is a huge part of it. Everyone someone on the left protests or criticizes or disagrees, it's greeted by cries of "free speech! Censorship!"
Mostmanlyman
Member
I agreed
This is kinda his point. If the statement after "but" is about the concern that important values, like free-thinking and skepticism, are being thrown under the bus in the name of another cause, then—leaving aside whether the concern is warranted or not—I don't see this cannot be a valid point.
It's basically the difference between a the-end-justifies-the-means on the one hand and a value-based position that does not want to compromise on certain basic values on the other hand. Taking the latter stance does not mean that the part before the "but" was just throat clearing.
MisterR
Member
Why in the world is it your business what his personal preference is for names?
I threw his "civil-libertarian" self directly into the bushes.
Plenty of people have issues and tell progressives they need to better focus their battles and messaging. But they have somehow done it without threatening to be alienated by the movement, or without saying they need to temper or blunt their message to be nicer to the mainstream.
I think this all depends on where you are and where you live. It's not the same kind of crowd everywhere. It takes more than one hand to count the "stereotyped" SJWs out of all the people I know. Nice people, but misguided. More harm than help. I don't think it's entirely fair to dismiss this like it's overblown outrage meant to discredit the left. Just a dose of reality that the entirety of the "left" may not all be on the same page.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
I think this every time someone says trigger warning.
This is how I feel.
Vicetrailia
Member
I don't see any of this being unique to the young generations talked about here. This is basically what fox news is.
freeofgreed
Member
Because we're in a fucking thread on a message board? If he doesn't want people to ask him why he doesn't like black names, maybe he shouldn't have posted it?
MisterR
Member
You talked about how weird it was that he didn't like certain names and then threw in a nice non-sequitur of your own with your snarky comment about everyone should just conform and be named Adam. You were actually looking for any kind of conversation or enlightenment. You had already made your judgment.
I asked a question because it seems weird to dislike "black names."
You're getting really sensitive about this. Are you having a bad day?
It wasn't a non-sequitur. It was a sarcastic remark directly related to the point.
Thank you for not answering my question.
Somehow it's okay for the other poster to make judgments about people's names, but not for me to ask questions and have concerns with his dislike.
Weird. Thanks for your censorship.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
And he says all that while disparaging intersectionality, which is all about that.
So excuse me if it does sound like throat clearing to me. Or more worried about the self and people like him more than really helping others.
You know how much shit women of color have given me in the past because of my antiquated views then? A lot. And I consider myself a feminist today because I listened to what they said, and I changed my views, and I challenge other men who have similar views to the ones I had.
Because the ones I had were actively harmful. And the women had all the reason to be pissed off. Methodology be damned.
There are a lot of names I don't like. Actually, I'm not a huge fan of really generic common names like Adam or Jack either. The thread was specifically asking about black names though.
MaddenNFL64
Member
10 years ago, I thought I was a hardcore lefty, coming of age in Hawaii. Still a liberal, but all this new thought police shit never passed muster with me. Hope the new generation figures it out.
Agent Gibbs
Member
its borderline hilarious but mainly infuriatingly sad
about two weekends ago I was at a protest in Leeds, UK about the conservative cuts, and whilst it was mainly what I'd consider a 'normal' left wing protester, there was a great deal of students there with megaphones shouting about civil disobedience, with all sorts of placards with tumblr like quotes, who certainly fell into 'this' SJW described, they were a toxic element, and strangely they all were filled with glee, like it was some sort of game to them to be shockingly facistly left wing
Spot on
Cybrwzrd
Banned
I'm an leftist as well, but come on, "censorship, lies, false outrage and silencing" are tools of all authoritarian groups, not just right wing ones. Every communist country did it as well, and millions died because of it during their drive for ideological purity.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
How is culture appropriation trivial?
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
My business partner (giant liberal and Sanders Supporter) calls these people the Regressive Left.
They are basically and extremist offshoot of the legitimate Social Justice Movement that believes that Freedom of Speech should only exist if you follow their rules for it. They are those that fight for censorship so they cannot be "offended". So, to them, their right to not be offended trumps your right to free speech.
Couple of other Regressive Left "features"
-If the regressive left had their way it would be against the law to have what they deem "Incorrect Opinions".
-They fight to remove injustice by silencing everyone but themselves.
-They call for racial segregation (basically the removal of whites from certain places)
-They are the ones who perverted the idea of Trigger Warnings and have turned it into "Im offended you must stop talking (or doing thing)".
- They believe only white people can be racist
- They attach onto stuff like BLM and slowly pervert the groups original goals into their own (these are the people who end up in the news doing all the extremist shit that makes some Social Justice Movements look bad to the general population).
- I doesn't matter what your political affiliation, if you don't follow their exact guidelines they will cast you OUT and belittle you. They are quick to turn on the hate speech to the extremes seen in the OP.
What the Regressive Left isn't:
- an accurate description of legit Social Justice Movement Supporters.
- a Majority (the regressive left is a vocal minority of people who support Social Justice)
Basically the Regressive left is like a Liberal Tea Party but with members of all races that have extreme senses of entitlement. They are also generally disenfranchised Millennials with guilt and persecution complexes.
They are basically and extremist offshoot of the legitimate Social Justice Movement that believes that Freedom of Speech should only exist if you follow their rules for it. They are those that fight for censorship so they cannot be "offended". So, to them, their right to not be offended trumps your right to free speech.
Couple of other Regressive Left "features"
-If the regressive left had their way it would be against the law to have what they deem "Incorrect Opinions".
-They fight to remove injustice by silencing everyone but themselves.
-They call for racial segregation (basically the removal of whites from certain places)
-They are the ones who perverted the idea of Trigger Warnings and have turned it into "Im offended you must stop talking (or doing thing)".
- They believe only white people can be racist
- They attach onto stuff like BLM and slowly pervert the groups original goals into their own (these are the people who end up in the news doing all the extremist shit that makes some Social Justice Movements look bad to the general population).
- I doesn't matter what your political affiliation, if you don't follow their exact guidelines they will cast you OUT and belittle you. They are quick to turn on the hate speech to the extremes seen in the OP.
What the Regressive Left isn't:
- an accurate description of legit Social Justice Movement Supporters.
- a Majority (the regressive left is a vocal minority of people who support Social Justice)
Basically the Regressive left is like a Liberal Tea Party but with members of all races that have extreme senses of entitlement. They are also generally disenfranchised Millennials with guilt and persecution complexes.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Like a lot of the examples in this thread: it's trivial because it doesn't happen to them on the regular. It's not immediately impacting them.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
The person quoted in the article claimed appropriation is completely trivial. Like, universally. While true that a lot of people are getting over zealous with calling something appropriation, or don't exactly handle it in the right way, appropriation is a very real, and very observable thing. For a person who is said to be black to completely dismiss culture appropriation shows a lack of understanding history and social dynamics.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah that sort of colors my impression of things. Unavoidably. I still think the whole "censorship" thing is terribly overblown for multiple reasons, including the fact that people being "censored" very rarely, if ever, lack a major platform elsewhere to speak just fine, and that the issue is more about which environments provide platforms for certain viewpoints
I've honestly never met this kind of person before. But I'm sure it will be the popular caricature of the left in the months, and years to come. Much like how all feminists got labeled as "man-haters".
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
Excellently well put. That guy and I are practically eye-to-eye on this. The problem w/ a lot of SJWs is that you're either all-or-nothing with them (which isn't realistic), and some of them are pretty hypocritical and selective in which causes they stand for more than others. I understand everyone has their biases, but I'm talking about things where, for example, if certain black people go against the grain (Killer Mike supporting Bernie Sanders for example), they are automatically called "coon", "house nigger", "uncle tom" etc. Or as that OJ series recently pointed out, look at the treatment Chris Darden received from a lot of so-called progressives at the time of the trial. Imho, that isn't truly being progressive; it's effectively a form of extreme peer pressure and bullying, where if a person doesn't agree with your points of view and doesn't fall in line with your assumed thinking, you lambast them and tear away their credibility.
There was a thread on GAF a while ago that was frankly startling, involving the #OscarsSoWhite thing. Something to do with Asian people in that regard. Anyway, I remember seeing a lot of posters essentially saying something to the effect of "fuck you. You're not there when we need you, so fuck you." and there were a LOT of people agreeing with this thinking. I'm sure a lot of those posters would also consider themselves progressive. Well, in my book, they just wear the label and aren't really about the cause, b/c it doesn't include devolving into a petty little angst-ridden teenager, especially over something that serious. People were treating this like it was team sports, grossly generalizing the "other", and just seeming very spiteful. Yet I bet you 9/10 of them would identify as liberal, Democrat, and progressive.
I'm not saying this to try and make Republicans look better by comparison, as they have their own problems and are generally worst off (collectively) when it comes to image. However, I feel the gulf between liberal progressives and the bad side of Republicans isn't as big as the former pretend it to be. And I think knowing that fact is part of the reason the former are so aggressive towards the latter. I'm not saying all SJ progressives are like this; however a large chunk are and it's somewhat hard to avoid them. And they are the ones that leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who otherwise support those causes, who as a result would otherwise just try to do right and stand up for members of those afflicted groups while not identifying w/ the term "SJW" at all.
People such as myself.
There was a thread on GAF a while ago that was frankly startling, involving the #OscarsSoWhite thing. Something to do with Asian people in that regard. Anyway, I remember seeing a lot of posters essentially saying something to the effect of "fuck you. You're not there when we need you, so fuck you." and there were a LOT of people agreeing with this thinking. I'm sure a lot of those posters would also consider themselves progressive. Well, in my book, they just wear the label and aren't really about the cause, b/c it doesn't include devolving into a petty little angst-ridden teenager, especially over something that serious. People were treating this like it was team sports, grossly generalizing the "other", and just seeming very spiteful. Yet I bet you 9/10 of them would identify as liberal, Democrat, and progressive.
I'm not saying this to try and make Republicans look better by comparison, as they have their own problems and are generally worst off (collectively) when it comes to image. However, I feel the gulf between liberal progressives and the bad side of Republicans isn't as big as the former pretend it to be. And I think knowing that fact is part of the reason the former are so aggressive towards the latter. I'm not saying all SJ progressives are like this; however a large chunk are and it's somewhat hard to avoid them. And they are the ones that leave a bad taste in the mouths of those who otherwise support those causes, who as a result would otherwise just try to do right and stand up for members of those afflicted groups while not identifying w/ the term "SJW" at all.
People such as myself.
You get around much? If it's a thing, there are definitely plenty of examples out there. The Regressive Left is very real.
God Dayumm
Banned
Problematic article. Not because it is wrong but because the introspection doesn't let me enjoy the popcorn. Remember when atheists were the ultimate annoying group on the internet? Now they are clowned in their own liberal circles, Richard Dawkins is a joke, and so will happen to everyone else as long as they keep biting each other's tail. And that is entertaining.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
These people have ruined something used for people who suffer from PTSD like rap victims and veterans. Absolutely sickening.
The Elite
BOSS
Well said. The concern is with a loud minority who think their disruptive style is having a positive influence when all they are in danger of doing is fragmenting a majority who may have similar goals even if their methods are not the same. They're very insular and self-validating as a culture, hence the tent metaphor.
The majority is level headed when it comes to dealing with social justice issues, it's just that these days the loud minority now has a larger soap box to stand on.
I do agree with their stance that we need to be proactive but their nature of ostracizing anyone who doesn't agree with their methods is destructive and creates a fractured base from which to create positive change.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
"SJWs are bad because reasons! and I don't have a solid gasp on what censorship is" is always the impression I get out of this. The kid is in high school and he overblows Social Justice causes just as bad as a Gamergater (which considering he thinks Sommers is an ideal feminist...)
No they haven't. Idiots who made fun of the concept ruined it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm pretty damn active on "social justice twitter" or whatever and pretty much the only "trigger warnings" I see tend to be for mentions of abuse or stuff involving food (which makes sense for people with eating disorders). We can sling anecdotes all day
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
There are a ton of these people on this very forum.
As a former muslim from a muslim country, I've found that these conversations come up quite often when I try to be critical of the religion's values. The right wing are bigoted towards muslims, so the position of some leftists is that they must be against anything the right is for, thus criticism of islam must be avoided lest one gets lumped in with the right wing. This gets a bit cognitively dissonant when the problematic views islam/certain islamic countries have towards LGBT people, women, apostates (affected me personally) and more come into the conversation. In the western world islam is oppressed, but where I used to live islam is the oppressor in many cases, so this difference in perspective causes issues. And people from the western world without my perspective can be quite dismissive of my views because of all this.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
They are not fascist. Fascism has nothing to do with them. They are leftist authoritarians. Imagine the policies of modern North Korea or China during the Cultural Revolution. Authoritarian leftists are the ones who desire those methods to control the public discourse. They are not as extreme as those groups, seeing as they lack power, but if they had the power to do it, they would gleefully purge/reeducate anyone on the right.
They desire to limit speech to only things that they find acceptable. The fact that debates on whether it is acceptable for white people to have dreadlocks speaks volumes on this groups desire for authoritarian power.
j_k_redtail
Member
This is a beautiful quote.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I genuinely don't think I've ever seen a "leftist" of any stripe defend the values of Islam and the way it treats women and LGBTQ people as "acceptable" (although of course I'm open to being proven wrong). What I do see is people who reject using those issues as a prop for xenophobia, jingoism, and warmongering. "Islam treats women poorly and that needs to change" and "but we shouldn't be turning all refugees away at the border" are not two dissonant positions
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
I fall into the same age group as these guys but the concept itself is extremely stupid and kind of a cop-out. It's essentially another way to avoid being reminded of harsh truths if they disturb your comfort level.
I remember having the need to post a couple of photos of lynched people in a thread and got some "trigger warnings bruh" responses. Just a bunch of noise. I don't exist to placate your desires; if you weren't delusional in the first place I'd of no need to post such material to wake you out of your bubble.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
No.
Gotdatmoney
Member
This specific point is something that I see tossed around that I think people actually ignore what the left is sayimg about this. We had a thread on gaf about Australian Aboriginee people having their own computer lab on a university campus and people who agreed with it were being accused of "calling for segregation.
When I read posts like yours that reduce issues to points like this it reminds me why I find people calling out the regressive left hypocritical. This spelcific point alone is such a misconstruction of the actual point many people were making.
It reads exactly like the dismissive shit people are calling out.
I dont believe in regressive left, I believe there are people mature enough to have a conversation and people that simply cant and its independent of age or liberal vs conservative sway.
I agree with you, and for the most part you are correct, but my personal interactions with people have given me a few examples to the contrary.
teruterubozu
Member
Got triggered, brah?
Croatoan
They/Them A-10 Warthog
If there is a valid reason for having "safe spaces" other than someones skin color (or culture) then I am all for it. If you want to segregate just because of race then that is racism.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Political extremes of all kinds have been given massively heightened visibility by the internet age. It's a simple matter for a fringe group to gather together their supporters from around the world and online flash mob targets to make themselves look like a vast army.
What this situation requires more than ever is an understanding of vocal minorities and a renewed focus on watching what people do rather than listening only to what they claim. Still, the media and technology of the day make it difficult to navigate this shit.
What this situation requires more than ever is an understanding of vocal minorities and a renewed focus on watching what people do rather than listening only to what they claim. Still, the media and technology of the day make it difficult to navigate this shit.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'm not sure I understand. His twitter post caused three people to have traumatic breakdowns or is he relaying a story about what happened one time through twitter?
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Thank you for that well thought out response.
- Status