Or the Goddess Hylia was reincarnated once more. Or there were members of the royal family that - unbeknownst to others - survived the initial flood, stayed behind and had descendants of their own. Not only are there alternative explanations to go on here, there are easy ones.
So we got two different Kingdoms of Hyrule and two different princess Zelda in the same universe/area, cool... Yeah that doesn't make any sense.
I can see it now: two kingdoms fighting each other to decide who is the REAL Hyrule. Or better yet, maybe one will sue the other to get the legal rights of the two castles...
What's the theory: the sea drained to uncover Old Hyrule, leaving New Hyrule isolated in a very very very tall mountain and without water and the Master Sword freed itself from Ganondorf's head, or Old Hyrule emerged from the waters because reasons (Koroks and all)? Poor power of that Triforce if someone makes a wish to keep Hyrule whelm for good and then is easily undone without the same Triforce just planting some trees or by the power of evaporation... I hope Aonuma's team are thinking in something better than that...
Sorry for the ironic tone, is not malicious, but I don't see it.
Don't you guys get it? The Old Man isn't the King of Red Lions. 100 years. Link has been asleep for 100 years. Look how old that guy is he''s pretty old. And Link picked up hang-gliding pretty quickly.
The Old Man is obviously Old Link. You're playing a clone.
I'm with you on the old man being the hero of time (and eventually turning into a shade methinks)
Not nearly as familiar with the timeline as you guys but is there anything preventing the old man and zelda from plucking the hero who succeeded from his own timeline, putting him in stasis while they waited 100 years for "the right moment" to reclaim Hyrule and defeat the calamity, and having Old Man Link train him along the way? Maybe even the act of summing the hero of time who succeeded was what merged the timelines in the first place...
Welp, after reading that Kotaku article it seems my initial hunch was wrong after all and that the timeline placement for BotW really is most likely 100 years after OoT Link is defeated by Ganon in the "Decline of Hyrule" timeline. Which is good, as I was actually hoping that they'd dedicate a game to exploring the topic of the third split.
The second explanation, however, would require that Kokiri evolved into these new forms in a span of 100 years or less, as well that the Great Deku Tree survives the rampage of Ganon to help aid the Kokiri in this process.
Bear in mind that Wind Waker seems to only occur around a century after Ocarina of Time as well. There are numerous interviews where Aonuma specifically says that, and there's even a Twilight Princess interview where he mentions that TP is exactly 100 years after OoT and then says that the events of TWW are parallel to TP. So the kind of transformation that the Zora and Kokiri underwent as they turned into the Rito tribe and the Koroks is likely a sort of magical, sped-up evolutionary process.
This also would confirm that the same characters can exist in parallel universes, Chrono Cross style.
Actually...Aonuma has gone on record staying that towns themselves are spoilers and were one of the reasons he kept them out of the demo. Them being named after the Seven Sages would definitely place them in the Downfall timeline. I like this!
It would be extremely neat if this timeline proposed in the OP is true and this is an act of all the timelines meeting. It could even "fix" the timeline.
Oh fuck man, I haven't watched much of the footage. Seeing that floating object that is potentially Skyloft, and hearing people on reddit already coming up with reasonable ways to get there.....fuuuuuuuccccckkk maaaaaannnn this game could be GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.
So I scanned the thread and didn't see this mentioned, nor is it in the OP.
Hyrule castle from BotW appears to be the exact same as the one from Twilight Princess. Notice the way the top is shaped, none of the castles in the series look like it.
And yeah, the floating thing looks very similar to Skyloft, but I saw that was already discussed in this thread.
Edit: Actually I do think it's Skyloft. Someone said that it returns to the ground at the end of SS which made me think it wasn't. But then I remembered only the statue part of Skyloft fell. The rest would still be up in the sky.
I'm aware that it's ultimately for gameplay reasons, but OoT Link is pretty darn iconic in the grand scheme of things so I highly doubt they're suddenly willing to retcon him into being right-handed. If BotW's Link is the same Link, I think a proper in-universe explanation is due. Even something relatively small like "Oh well he has amnesia so this is how he fights now" I'd be willing to accept, as long as we get some sort of justification behind it.
True, the Hero of Time is a particularly iconic version of Link (almost definitely the best-known version of him). Honestly though, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch for them to say that he was ambidextrous or some vague excuse for changing which hand he holds the sword in (aside from the one already provided which was merely "this was done for gameplay reasons").
However if this new Link is the Hero of Time, the detail about Time's design that I'd be personally questioning about is his hairstyle. It's very superficial of me and a very minor detail that could probably be easily explained away, I know, but that was partially how I used to tell Time apart from the other Links.
Based on Aonuma's comments from the Kotaku article though, I'm still of the mind that this Link is probably the Hero of Time in the Downfall Timeline.
Actually...Aonuma has gone on record staying that towns themselves are spoilers and were one of the reasons he kept them out of the demo. Them being named after the Seven Sages would definitely place them in the Downfall timeline. I like this!
Okay, so after reading this Kotaku article from another thread (which just so happens to source this very thread several times, good job Feltrol), I'm beginning to try and piece together a timeline where the game takes place in the Fallen Hero timeline as RagnarokX has been suggesting.
According to the Hyrule Historia (which we'll assume is accurate given that we're basing most of the timeline speculation off of its timeline explanation), in the Fallen Hero timeline, the Hero of Time fails in his final battle with Ganon and Ganon successfully gains access to the entire Triforce:
So, from this passage we can learn a few things. Namely, Princess Zelda is seemingly not killed by Ganon and she leads the Seven Sages to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm. This leads to a short-lived era of peace.
Eventually, greedy people who had heard legends of the Triforce seek it out, disappearing into the former Sacred Realm, which has been transformed into the Dark World from Ganondorf's interference. (His initial interference where he steals the Triforce of Power.) Soon enough the seal on the Realm is broken and evil power begins to escape. The current King of Hyrule orders the Seven Sages of that era to seal the Dark World as before. Many knights of Hyrule die protecting the Sages until they're able to complete the seal. This event eventually is known as the Imprisoning War and is mentioned in A Link to the Past.
Now, to me, for BotW to fit into this era, there has to be some stretching at one of the two points where Ganon is sealed into the Sacred Realm. We know he has to end up there for the events of A Link to the Past to occur. It's unlikely that the game occurs during the Imprisoning War as it's mentioned that the Sages of that era first attempted to find the Master Sword and a suitable hero to wield it:
Thus, we have to stretch the original time Ganon is sealed away, which occurs directly after the events of OoT.
Here's my take on how that would work: Ganon defeats Link and gains access to the Triforce, becoming a violent force. He rampages across Hyrule, seemingly appearing "suddenly" to the people of Hyrule. They only knew of the evils of Ganondorf, so to them, Ganon is a new and frightening force.
Zelda and the other Sages somehow survive this rampage and band together to seal Ganon at Hyrule Castle
(it's actually Ganon Castle at this point but..)
. The Hero of Time is taken to the Shrine of Resurrection where he sleeps for 100 years. (Or he's resurrected 100 years later...)
At this point, the Sages are either required to stay and keep the seal on the castle or they die. Same with Princess Zelda.
100 years later, Ganon, now known as Calamity Ganon by the people of Hyrule for his devastation on Hyrule, has grown in power and the seal on Hyrule Castle is waning. Link hears a mysterious voice and awakens from his slumber.
Now, if this is the case, then we know that in the game we'll have to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm (for the events of the timeline to occur). Hyrule Historia explicity states that Princess Zelda leads the Sages in this effort, but it's possible that they're different versions of Princess Zelda (though if you have the same Hero of Time, you might as well have the same Princess Zelda) and the Sages.
There are a couple problems with this theory:
The Old Man refers to the place where Calamity Ganon is trapped as Hyrule Castle, but in the Fallen Hero timeline, the castle was destroyed and replaced with Ganon's Castle.
It takes quite a bit of stretching to match the pages of Hyrule Historia. I suppose this could be chalked up to "legends" and so on, but it's still quite a bit of a stretch to make it work.
The Koroks. I've stated before that I believe their evolution is spurred on only because of the great flood in the Wind Waker timeline. Two possible explanations are that they're just a cool cameo or that they evolved in this timeline as well. The second explanation, however, would require that Kokiri evolved into these new forms in a span of 100 years or less, as well that the Great Deku Tree survives the rampage of Ganon to help aid the Kokiri in this process.
The Guardians. And Sheikah technology. Less of a problem and more of a we have no idea about them.
And honestly, there's probably a few more there too, but I was just doing my best to try and make it a possible explanation for it.
Aonuma stresses a link to Ocarina of Time (though the Sheikah symbol appears elsewhere too) and that link has been asleep for 100 years for whatever reason. This theory would explain that.
So yeah, if this Link is the Hero of Time, this game's Zelda is probably the same one from OoT as well.
As for the Koroks, I maintain that that's actually a really easy thing to explain away. After all, we already know going into the game now that this Hyrule is post-apocalyptic, due to Calamity Ganon laying the land to ruin 100 years prior. It's not a stretch to imagine that the Great Deku Tree might have urged the Kokiri to change into the Koroks (it's probably easier for them to "evolve" than most other species) in order to start bringing the green back into the land after Ganon was sealed away.
The biggest plot hole or issue that I'd see personally is your point on Ganon's Castle versus Hyrule Castle, though I do think that one could potentially be answered away if this theory proves to be correct.
I think there is some convergence as shown also in the murals of Twilight Princess HD.
But, what if this game, even having the convergence, takes the Wind Waker lore as a main plot. In WW it is said that Ganon reappears and destroys everything, and the hero never comes and then the gods transform hyrule in the great sea.
What if the link we play here is the hero that didnt appear back then. Its not that he didnt appear, but he was defeated by ganon and put to rest. The sheikah sent the guardians but they also failed or simply malfunctioned. In WW we don't fight Ganon -just a puppet-, we fight Ganondorf. And now, after the flood is gone, Ganon reappeared and the old hero that was resting was awakened.
The old man then would be the king of hyrule, again guiding us.
Ganon's Tower is a structure that's a part of Hyrule the same as everything else. It was not destroyed by the flood.
The burden of proof is on you to substantiate the (completely baseless) claim that Hyrule's buildings were outright destroyed by the flood, and as far as we know they weren't since Ganon's Tower itself seemed to be perfectly fine. Wishing for Hyrule to be "washed away" does not necessarily imply literal, complete obliteration.
Or the Goddess Hylia was reincarnated once more. Or there were members of the royal family that - unbeknownst to others - survived the initial flood, stayed behind and had descendants of their own. Not only are there alternative explanations to go on here, there are easy ones.
They're extremely small. Hylia is a single Skyward Sword reference and anything related to a divine figure of that nature could surface literally ANYWHERE in the timeline. There's no hard-set rule preventing namedrops and symbols of Hylia from reappearing very late in the timeline, and Nintendo certainly wouldn't limit themselves in such a capacity when it comes to lore-building. The Koroks on the other hand are very specific characters whose race had a very specific evolution period, not to mention the very specific implication that at least the plateau was once under an "ancient sea" (and given that the plateau was said to be the origin place for Hyrule, it's hardly comparable to SS's Lanayru province which was only established to have previously been a sea because of the Timeshift gameplay). The reference to Wind Waker is extremely precise and not just a reference to vague mythological elements of the series unlike the case with SS and OoT.
As far as I'm aware, there isn't a single Ocarina of Time reference beyond the Temple of Time.
There's nothing that even tangentially ties this part into Ocarina of Time's narrative. You're just assuming that it refers to the hypothetical "Link failed" split, not that I would personally have an issue with that (I actually quite like your idea) but it doesn't change the fact that there's no absolute conflict with the post-WW theory either. Moreover, the Link in this game is right-handed.
I do agree with you in regards to the whole "convergence" idea; it does sound a bit silly and nonsensical for what Nintendo's trying to go for here so I think we can safely throw that one out, although it's not impossible.
You said that we see the structures are fine after the flood. We only see one structure for a second after the flood. I was only pointing out that what you said was wrong. The wish specified for Hyrule to be washed away, though.
See. You have to make up some insanely convoluted ideas to make this happen after Spirit Tracks. You think it's less crazy that a second Hyrule royal family sprouted up out of nowhere and now there are two Hyrules coexisting?
Hylia isn't the only Skyward Sword reference. All of the technology is. The Sheikah Slate calls itself a Sheikah Stone on its screen, and Sheikah Stones only appeared in Skyward Sword, OoT3D, and MM3D. They allowed Link to watch hint videos.
You can't eat your cake and have it, too. You want to dismiss references to specific characters, but Koroks are suddenly immune to the idea that Nintendo doesn't care about that kind of stuff. Again, the Great Deku Tree says "Once upon a time, long ago, the Koroks took on human forms, but when they came to live on the sea, they took these shapes." This does not say that the great sea caused them to become Koroks, it says that they took on the form of Koroks when they came to live on the sea. They are magical forest spirits that can change their form to suit their needs. And if this game is as I believe it to be then this game takes place at roughly a parallel time to Wind Waker, so it makes sense that they would be Koroks since the same amount of time passed between OoT and WW as passed between OoT and BotW. That also explains the Old Man looking like King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule.
I have no idea what you're on about with the ancient sea in Skyward Sword. The timeshift stones allowed Link to visit the past when the sea still existed. The sea existed in the past regardless of timeshift usage and it would still have ancient salt deposits from its time as a sea.
The Temple of Time is a big connection to OoT, as is the general layout of the world. The temple does not look like it's been damaged for possibly thousands of years and been underwater. We also already know a Hero that failed. For this to be after WW would mean this is another Hero who failed. It would be much simpler to just use the one we already have, especially when that story is dying to be told. Koroks and ancient seas don't conflict with that at all and it requires a lot less convolutedness. Aonuma has said that they do not choose handedness based on story concerns but purely on gameplay concerns.
There's another too - pretty much every standard enemy shown in the demo, aside from those new golem creatures, seemed to be in Wind Waker too, like Bokoblins as the main (and red) enemy grunts, and the jelly enemies are called Chu Chu, rather than the TP variation. They also match Skyward Sword's so far though.
Maybe this game's scale is actually closer to Zelda II's? The central plateau might be meant to match the entire classic Hyrule area (it's described as the birth place of the kingdom and seems to have geographic components to match most of Hyrule's classic locations), while the modern Hyrule Kingdom proper would be elsewhere, corresponding to its location in Spirits Tracks, like how the overworld of Zelda 1 is a tiny part of Zelda 2's map.
Hey, that's a pretty good find right there. That could be the case.
Okay, so after reading this Kotaku article from another thread (which just so happens to source this very thread several times, good job Feltrol), I'm beginning to try and piece together a timeline where the game takes place in the Fallen Hero timeline as RagnarokX has been suggesting.
According to the Hyrule Historia (which we'll assume is accurate given that we're basing most of the timeline speculation off of its timeline explanation), in the Fallen Hero timeline, the Hero of Time fails in his final battle with Ganon and Ganon successfully gains access to the entire Triforce:
So, from this passage we can learn a few things. Namely, Princess Zelda is seemingly not killed by Ganon and she leads the Seven Sages to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm. This leads to a short-lived era of peace.
Eventually, greedy people who had heard legends of the Triforce seek it out, disappearing into the former Sacred Realm, which has been transformed into the Dark World from Ganondorf's interference. (His initial interference where he steals the Triforce of Power.) Soon enough the seal on the Realm is broken and evil power begins to escape. The current King of Hyrule orders the Seven Sages of that era to seal the Dark World as before. Many knights of Hyrule die protecting the Sages until they're able to complete the seal. This event eventually is known as the Imprisoning War and is mentioned in A Link to the Past.
Now, to me, for BotW to fit into this era, there has to be some stretching at one of the two points where Ganon is sealed into the Sacred Realm. We know he has to end up there for the events of A Link to the Past to occur. It's unlikely that the game occurs during the Imprisoning War as it's mentioned that the Sages of that era first attempted to find the Master Sword and a suitable hero to wield it:
Thus, we have to stretch the original time Ganon is sealed away, which occurs directly after the events of OoT.
Here's my take on how that would work: Ganon defeats Link and gains access to the Triforce, becoming a violent force. He rampages across Hyrule, seemingly appearing "suddenly" to the people of Hyrule. They only knew of the evils of Ganondorf, so to them, Ganon is a new and frightening force.
Zelda and the other Sages somehow survive this rampage and band together to seal Ganon at Hyrule Castle
(it's actually Ganon Castle at this point but..)
. The Hero of Time is taken to the Shrine of Resurrection where he sleeps for 100 years. (Or he's resurrected 100 years later...)
At this point, the Sages are either required to stay and keep the seal on the castle or they die. Same with Princess Zelda.
100 years later, Ganon, now known as Calamity Ganon by the people of Hyrule for his devastation on Hyrule, has grown in power and the seal on Hyrule Castle is waning. Link hears a mysterious voice and awakens from his slumber.
Now, if this is the case, then we know that in the game we'll have to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm (for the events of the timeline to occur). Hyrule Historia explicity states that Princess Zelda leads the Sages in this effort, but it's possible that they're different versions of Princess Zelda (though if you have the same Hero of Time, you might as well have the same Princess Zelda) and the Sages.
There are a couple problems with this theory:
The Old Man refers to the place where Calamity Ganon is trapped as Hyrule Castle, but in the Fallen Hero timeline, the castle was destroyed and replaced with Ganon's Castle.
It takes quite a bit of stretching to match the pages of Hyrule Historia. I suppose this could be chalked up to "legends" and so on, but it's still quite a bit of a stretch to make it work.
The Koroks. I've stated before that I believe their evolution is spurred on only because of the great flood in the Wind Waker timeline. Two possible explanations are that they're just a cool cameo or that they evolved in this timeline as well. The second explanation, however, would require that Kokiri evolved into these new forms in a span of 100 years or less, as well that the Great Deku Tree survives the rampage of Ganon to help aid the Kokiri in this process.
The Guardians. And Sheikah technology. Less of a problem and more of a we have no idea about them.
And honestly, there's probably a few more there too, but I was just doing my best to try and make it a possible explanation for it.
Aonuma stresses a link to Ocarina of Time (though the Sheikah symbol appears elsewhere too) and that link has been asleep for 100 years for whatever reason. This theory would explain that.
That Kotaku quote is interesting. Aonuma seems to be basically saying "100 years after OoT". That puts it in the 100 years after OoT club with Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild all take place at the same time in their respective timelines. This is probably why they put Koroks in the game and possibly this timeline's version of King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule.
That's basically my idea of what happened. This game is a stretching of the part where Zelda and the Sages sealed Ganon following his acquisition of the triforce. It's okay because it doesn't necessarily contradict what we already know, it just adds detail. Zelda and the Sages still seal Ganon, but it takes 100 years to accomplish and the Hero of Time is revived and helps out.
Details like Ganon's Castle aren't a big deal. We don't the details of when Ganon built the castle or when the Hero of Time got defeated. Hyrule Castle still stood in the child era even after Ganon acquired the triforce of power. Perhaps Link was defeated in the child era. Perhaps it's just an it's a legend thing. They've been consistent with what Hyrule Castle looks like since TP, but TP's castle looks nothing like OoT's castle and the castle wasn't destroyed in TP's timeline so there was no reason to rebuild it.
If Twilight Princess takes place 100 years after OoT, why is the Temple of Time completely outside of Hyrule Castle and waaay more ruined than this one? Why doesn't the Temple of Time exist at all in Wind Waker?
Wind Waker followup has too many problems to be realistic. I don't see how Fallen Hero isn't the most obvious fit since, you know, the game is about a Fallen Hero.
At a group Q&A with reporters on Sunday, Zelda producer Eiji Aonuma was asked where the game fit into the franchise timeline. Aonuma said he didn’t want to say much about the story at the moment but said he’d stare a hint. He noted that that the t-shirt he was wearing showed the symbol for the Sheikah stones and that it was the same one from The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time. (In Breath of the Wild, the reawakened Link uses a high-tech item called the “Sheikah slate”. Aonuma also reminded people that, at the start of this game, Link is told he’s been asleep for 100 years. “He teased: “You can decide what this means.”
So basically, when asked where in the timeline BotW takes place, he made a reference to OoT and then pointed out that Link has been asleep for 100 years.
Fallen Hero timeline is the only branch without a game set 100 years after OoT and the only branch with an established reason for Link to be asleep in medical pod.
All the timelines colliding sounds amazing. Playing with space and time... I can't wrap my head around it. Sheikahs must have advanced so much... hence the technology.
Final Solution in timelines: there's a brand new, fourth timeline called the Unfortunate Child Murder Timeline where the Hero of Time gets killed by Ganondorf at the bridge, Ganondorf takes the three whatevers of unlocking, and gets premature access to the entire Triforce.
I mentioned it in another thread while being silly but if I'm taking shots in the dark with little basis, I think a faint possibility is that this game is a new branch where the hero never awakens after pulling the master sword. I mean if he could stay in stasis and have different clothes after 7 years I dont see why he couldnt stay in stasis for 100 years and wake up with nothing.
They're not related, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Aonuma talks about creating the Guardians in an interview. They're based on Octoroks, with a sci-fi twist.
Don't you guys get it? The Old Man isn't the King of Red Lions. 100 years. Link has been asleep for 100 years. Look how old that guy is he''s pretty old. And Link picked up hang-gliding pretty quickly.
The Old Man is obviously Old Link. You're playing a clone.
Here's the Old Man's full description in the demo of the Calamity Ganon, and what happened to Hyrule:
I assume you have caught full sight of that atrocity swarming around the castle. That...is the Calamity Ganon. It brought ruin and corruption upon the kingdom of Hyrule 100 years ago. It appeared suddenly...destroying everything in its path. Leaving countless innocents in its wake. Over the last century, the kingdom's purest symbol, Hyrule Castle, has been able to contain that evil. But just barely. There it festers, building its strength for the moment it will unleash its blight upon the land once again. It would appear that moment is fast approaching...
He mentions that the event happened 100 years ago. If people are going by Ocarina of Time as the start of this time frame, that would completely rule this game out of the Child timeline as such an event definitely does not occur. In the Adult timeline, Ganon does indeed bring "ruin and corruption" to the world, but for seven years, which doesn't fit the time frame for this event. An instance where he appears suddenly and attempts to bring destruction (The Great Flood) is depicted at the start of The Wind Waker, though IMO it's not the same event as this one as the world is very clearly not underwater. It's also possible that this occurred in the Fallen Hero timeline too for obvious reasons, but again the exact details don't quite fit.
Personally, I think this is an entirely new, previously unheard of event that is much later in the timeline than anything we've seen before. Everyone's focusing on the eye symbol on Aonuma's shirt, whereas I'm more drawn to the futuristic/sci-fi motif drawn around it. We've seen the eye before, but never this particular design. It's never been seen in Hyrule until this point. It's worth noting that the elderly monks in the shrines feature the old pupil-less design, not the new one that can be found everywhere else. Does the addition of a pupil represent enlightenment? We know that the Sheikah have the ability to manipulate time, so I suppose a converged timeline isn't entirely out of the question.
Something that I think that is also worth analysing is that the game makes a point of dehumanising the villain. Referring to "it" as "the Calamity Ganon". It also appears as some kind of demonic spirit, rather than the physical man/beast forms that we're used to. This suggests Ganon is beyond a corporeal form. The Old Man also mentions how the Calamity Ganon appeared very suddenly, and seemed only interested in destruction (rather than power). The only other time Ganon is portrayed this way is during the Great Flood.
Once again I think we can rule out the Child timeline. Ganondorf is killed in Twilight Princess, and is stripped of the Triforce of Power. He has no power and is deader than dead. The reincarnated Ganon from Four Swords Adventures (if this even counts) never wielded the Triforce, and was pretty easily defeated because of it. He's safely sealed in the Four Sword, and it's very, very unlikely that it will reappear as a plot device in this game.
In the Adult timeline, Ganondorf is turned to stone. It's uncertain whether he actually died or not (since he's still talking and able to hold up his swords after being stabbed in the head) so he might still wield some kind of power. What happens to the Triforce is not clear though, since it's never brought up in this timeline again. It's possible that at a much later time, someone (possibly the Link in this game) removed the Master Sword from the stone Ganondorf, releasing Ganon's evil which manifested itself as a demon.
In the Fallen Hero timeline, Ganon is in possession of the Triforce and is able to stave off death repeatedly. It's possible again that his evil manifested itself as the Calamity Ganon, whether through some kind of botched resurrection, or again from not having truly been killed or sealed away.
If Twilight Princess takes place 100 years after OoT, why is the Temple of Time completely outside of Hyrule Castle and waaay more ruined than this one?
That's true, but the map is large enough to include a "new Hyrule" (the new continent) and an ancient Hyrule (the flooded land) where the game could start
But again, every theory has its faults and the Fallen Hero is one of the most solid.
I do not think there's a convergence at all tbh. I mean if we're going to use references as evidence for this, there's a lot more weight carried by games like Triforce Heroes and Spirit Tracks that have references to the entire series in them as well. That isn't to say it's without merit, but rather you shouldn't look to it as something to suggest the timelines are converging.
I know a bit about the Zelda timeline myself, and I've more or less done this off and on for years, but...here's what I get from what we know about Breath of the Wild.
The Master Sword's location - The only eras this could possibly take place in according to the Master Sword is sometime after Skyward Sword (but before Ocarina of Time and possibly even The Minish Cap), after A Link to the Past, or after Twilight Princess (and by proxy, after Four Swords Adventure).
Koroks - This suggests some continuity with the Adult Timeline aka the Wind Waker timeline, however keep in mind that when Link and Tetra found a new land the Koroks were never seen again. Also, the Temple of Time AND the Master Sword as well as Hyrule itself is not in ruins, but rather it's buried deep under the sea never to be seen again. Ganon is also under the sea in the Wind Waker sealed by the Master Sword, with Malladus taking his place as the new Demon King as we see in Spirit Tracks.
The Goddess Hylia - The only known point that we know of that people actively have knowledge of the Goddess Hylia was in the Skyward Sword era. However it's possible in a time unaffected by a large excess of evil to be able to keep a tradition such as Hylia alive, and neither the Downfall or the Adult Timeline really provide an oppurtunity for that to happen. Hell, in the Adult Timeline, the people of the Earth forgot the Triforce even existed!
Landscape - While barren, there is defiinately signs of a previous ancient civilization that was highly technologically advanced. Even more-so than the ancient civilization the Robots were from in Skyward Sword. No game to date has displayed this level of technology, which suggests that this game MUST take place in a timeline where propsperity was strong enough to flourish AND allow the Temple of Time, the Master Sword, and Ganon to still exist at the same time. There is only one timeline for that...
The Child Timeline.
Now, this wouldn't be placed in no ordinary position, but let's look at it his way.
The Wind Waker was supposed to take place near 1000 years after Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess is more along the lines of 100 years, and Four Swords Adventure probably takes place after another 100 years as well. And then you have the Downfall Timeline, which by and large between their games is likely at least 100 or a couple hundred years. So what would happen in the Child Timeline, if left alone by evil forces for nearly a millennium? Ganon was sealed inside the Four Sword itself, leaving the kingdom available to be at peace for a fairly long time. Kokiri stilled evolved into Koroks (like they did in Wind Waker), however instead of a new culture created by the sea, it was instead a culture based on technology.
Without Ganon, technology flourished. Hell, we already seen a bit of this in Twilight Princess itself, which had a pretty good era of peace in between it and Ocarina of Time.
My theory is this, more or less: Breath of the Wild is to the Child Timeline what the original Legend of Zelda was to the Downfall Timeline and what The Wind Waker was to the Adult Timeline. All three games take place in post-apocalyptic worlds of sorts, but due to different circumstances (LoZ: Terrorized by Ganon for centuries. BotW: Great civilization fallen by Calamity Ganon. TWW: Hyrule flooded to destroy Ganon.) yielding different results. All three games are fairly open-ended as well, allowing you to pretty much explore the world as you please even though it takes a little bit before you get to do that in Wind Waker.
I really like this theory. I also do not think it's a coincidence that they chose TP to remaster, keep hinting to replay TP to notice little things, and made the wolf available as an optional sidekick with the amiibo. I am definitely leaning towards the TP timeline as well.
My second choice would be the downfall timeline and this is the story where it says 'The Decline of Hyrule and the Last Hero'. The old guy you meet specifically says the phrase 'Decline of Hyrule', no?
Rather than the Great Sea, could the ancient sea referred to by the rock salt be the Lanayru Sea? Although it didn't look like Link was in a desert area when he got the rock salt.
maybe this game will deal with the potential failings of all the other links from all the other games. there's a timeline split for failing in oot but not for any other game. maybe that gets dealt with in this game, hence it likely being in the fallen hero timeline yet having stuff from other timelines like wind waker. maybe hero of time link will be tasked to succeed where the other links failed. perhaps the timeline nuttiness in this game can be explained because every other link from all the games failed creating an infinite number of timeline splits which causes everything to go kind of crazy.
There's not much reason to continue our discussion since I've pretty much abandoned the post-TWW interpretation at this point, but I'd like to mention that I'm not dismissing references to anything at all. I'm saying that Hylia is a sort of general divine figure that's been present since the beginning of Zelda's continuity and is thus capable of popping up anywhere in the timeline; after all there's a huge time frame after SS that includes TMC, FS and OoT itself in which we don't see any signs of the Goddess Hylia at all, although it's still plausible that she would resurface afterwards since she represents this sort of abstract figure of worship. Koroks are specific characters we meet whose evolution would have to happen at a specific point, namely post-OoT, so their placement simply isn't as flexible as that of a mythological figure who has existed since the beginning of the overall narrative.
That puts it in the 100 years after OoT club with Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, and Breath of the Wild all take place at the same time in their respective timelines. This is probably why they put Koroks in the game and possibly this timeline's version of King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule.
So for example, Link goes straight to Hyrule Castle to attack Ganon. He is not strong enough to do so, and we get a cutscene showing Link being killed, and dragged away by a female Sheikah.
Then like the intro to the game, Link is shown waking up, and the whole thing starts again, until Link decides to go to Ganon, prepared.
Bear in mind that Wind Waker seems to only occur around a century after Ocarina of Time as well. There are numerous interviews where Aonuma specifically says that, and there's even a Twilight Princess interview where he mentions that TP is exactly 100 years after OoT and then says that the events of TWW are parallel to TP. So the kind of transformation that the Zora and Kokiri underwent as they turned into the Rito tribe and the Koroks is likely a sort of magical, sped-up evolutionary process.
See, I didn't actually know that Aonuma had said this, but then, well, that completely throws out my counterargument that the Kokiri would need more than 100 years to evolve into Koroks. Of course, if we're going by the Fallen Hero timeline, then there'd be no flood to motivate them, but with Ganon rampaging Hyrule, well, that'd be reason enough probably to evolve. Perhaps in this timeline, they evolve in order to bring green back to the lands.
As for the Koroks, I maintain that that's actually a really easy thing to explain away. After all, we already know going into the game now that this Hyrule is post-apocalyptic, due to Calamity Ganon laying the land to ruin 100 years prior. It's not a stretch to imagine that the Great Deku Tree might have urged the Kokiri to change into the Koroks (it's probably easier for them to "evolve" than most other species) in order to start bringing the green back into the land after Ganon was sealed away.
The biggest plot hole or issue that I'd see personally is your point on Ganon's Castle versus Hyrule Castle, though I do think that one could potentially be answered away if this theory proves to be correct.
I don't have a reasonable explanation for Hyrule Castle, however. In the future of OoT and thus the Fallen Hero Timeline, Hyrule Castle is gone. It doesn't exist. In it's place is Ganon's Castle, which does not look like the castle we see in game. (I suppose you could chalk it up to game design decisions but still....)
EDIT: Although, we have always assumed that the Fallen Hero timeline occurs after Link fails in the future... it's possible that he was defeated prior to Hyrule Castle being destroyed and before Ganon's Castle was built, though that would not explain why he ages to seemingly "adult" age and stops.
He mentions that the event happened 100 years ago. If people are going by Ocarina of Time as the start of this time frame, that would completely rule this game out of the Child timeline as such an event definitely does not occur. In the Adult timeline, Ganon does indeed bring "ruin and corruption" to the world, but for seven years, which doesn't fit the time frame for this event. An instance where he appears suddenly and attempts to bring destruction (The Great Flood) is depicted at the start of The Wind Waker, though IMO it's not the same event as this one as the world is very clearly not underwater. It's also possible that this occurred in the Fallen Hero timeline too for obvious reasons, but again the exact details don't quite fit.
I agree that if we're trying to place this game within 100 years of OoT that the child timeline is out of the question. You'd have to stretch to make it into the Adult timeline. You'd have to explain where Link went since previously we knew that he simply disappears from this timeline. Additionally, if it's in this timeline, then most assuredly we know how the encounter has to end. All of Hyrule is flooded.
If we're going with the assumption that it's within 100 years of post-OoT, then I feel like the Fallen Hero timeline makes the most sense. Explains why Link's been asleep for 100 years. The "sudden appearance" of Ganon refers to him in his actual Ganon form, not Ganondorf after he gains the power of the Triforce. Possibly the power from the Triforce corrupts him into this ephemeral form.
Then again, it could just be a new timeline or Aonuma is just being coy and the game takes completely separate of OoT.
What if, like what happened with the third split in Ocarina, Breath of the Wild starts a new path in the timeline with one of the other links failing, and being put into stasis to recover?
i think it's the fallen hero timeline. OOT link is killed and the sheikah go through a process to try to resurrect him. then we would have all three timelines and what unfolded after 100 years.
What if, like what happened with the third split in Ocarina, Breath of the Wild starts a new path in the timeline with one of the other links failing, and being put into stasis to recover?
Honestly, no reason this can't be the Fallen Hero line already. We don't know what actually happens to Link in this version of OoT - whether he's killed, greatly injured, etc.
My problem with the game taking place 100 years after OOT in the fallen hero timeline is that... aren't Ganon's whereabouts from the end of OOT to ALttP completely accounted for? The story is that after Link perished Ganon gained the entire Triforce, there was the Imprisoning War, and Ganon was sealed away inside the Dark World where he remained until ALttP. Where could BotW fit in?
My problem with the game taking place 100 years after OOT in the fallen hero timeline is that... aren't Ganon's whereabouts from the end of OOT to ALttP completely accounted for? The story is that after Link perished Ganon gained the entire Triforce, there was the Imprisoning War, and Ganon was sealed away inside the Dark World where he remained until ALttP. Where could BotW fit in?
Okay, so after reading this Kotaku article from another thread (which just so happens to source this very thread several times, good job Feltrol), I'm beginning to try and piece together a timeline where the game takes place in the Fallen Hero timeline as RagnarokX has been suggesting.
According to the Hyrule Historia (which we'll assume is accurate given that we're basing most of the timeline speculation off of its timeline explanation), in the Fallen Hero timeline, the Hero of Time fails in his final battle with Ganon and Ganon successfully gains access to the entire Triforce:
"At last, Ganondorf found himself in the possession of the Triforce of Wisdom that dwelt within Princess Zelda, and the Triforce of Courage that dwelt in Link. [...] The Seven Sages of Hyrule, led by Princess Zelda, sealed Ganon and the Triforce in the Sacred Realm as a final resort."
So, from this passage we can learn a few things. Namely, Princess Zelda is seemingly not killed by Ganon and she leads the Seven Sages to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm. This leads to a short-lived era of peace.
Eventually, greedy people who had heard legends of the Triforce seek it out, disappearing into the former Sacred Realm, which has been transformed into the Dark World from Ganondorf's interference. (His initial interference where he steals the Triforce of Power.) Soon enough the seal on the Realm is broken and evil power begins to escape. The current King of Hyrule orders the Seven Sages of that era to seal the Dark World as before. Many knights of Hyrule die protecting the Sages until they're able to complete the seal. This event eventually is known as the Imprisoning War and is mentioned in A Link to the Past.
Now, to me, for BotW to fit into this era, there has to be some stretching at one of the two points where Ganon is sealed into the Sacred Realm. We know he has to end up there for the events of A Link to the Past to occur. It's unlikely that the game occurs during the Imprisoning War as it's mentioned that the Sages of that era first attempted to find the Master Sword and a suitable hero to wield it:
"The Sages first had to search for the existence of the Master Sword and a hero to use it. However, the situation was urgent, and Ganon's malice was enclosing on the royal palace."
Thus, we have to stretch the original time Ganon is sealed away, which occurs directly after the events of OoT.
Here's my take on how that would work: Ganon defeats Link and gains access to the Triforce, becoming a violent force. He rampages across Hyrule, seemingly appearing "suddenly" to the people of Hyrule. They only knew of the evils of Ganondorf, so to them, Ganon is a new and frightening force.
Zelda and the other Sages somehow survive this rampage and band together to seal Ganon at Hyrule Castle
(it's actually Ganon Castle at this point but..)
. The Hero of Time is taken to the Shrine of Resurrection where he sleeps for 100 years. (Or he's resurrected 100 years later...)
At this point, the Sages are either required to stay and keep the seal on the castle or they die. Same with Princess Zelda.
100 years later, Ganon, now known as Calamity Ganon by the people of Hyrule for his devastation on Hyrule, has grown in power and the seal on Hyrule Castle is waning. Link hears a mysterious voice and awakens from his slumber.
Now, if this is the case, then we know that in the game we'll have to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm (for the events of the timeline to occur). Hyrule Historia explicity states that Princess Zelda leads the Sages in this effort, but it's possible that they're different versions of Princess Zelda (though if you have the same Hero of Time, you might as well have the same Princess Zelda) and the Sages.
There are a couple problems with this theory:
The Old Man refers to the place where Calamity Ganon is trapped as Hyrule Castle, but in the Fallen Hero timeline, the castle was destroyed and replaced with Ganon's Castle.
It takes quite a bit of stretching to match the pages of Hyrule Historia. I suppose this could be chalked up to "legends" and so on, but it's still quite a bit of a stretch to make it work.
The Guardians. And Sheikah technology. Less of a problem and more of a we have no idea about them.
And honestly, there's probably a few more there too, but I was just doing my best to try and make it a possible explanation for it.
Aonuma stresses a link to Ocarina of Time (though the Sheikah symbol appears elsewhere too) and that link has been asleep for 100 years for whatever reason. This theory would explain that.
Couldn't it be the OoT Link in the WW timeline? Saved the day, fell under a sleeping spell, hyrule under water. Korok seeds got planted and sucked the water. Years pass, landscape changes, Link wakes up.
They're not related, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Aonuma talks about creating the Guardians in an interview. They're based on Octoroks, with a sci-fi twist.
There's nothing saying they're not related. The Guardians in SS are robots created to test Link in the Silent Realm. The Guardians in BotW are robots created to protect Hyrule and test Link in the shrines. Most likely both created by the sheikah and both serve similar purposes.
Right, didn't think about that :/ But still, what about the rock salt?
That's true, but the map is large enough to include a "new Hyrule" (the new continent) and an ancient Hyrule (the flooded land) where the game could start
But again, every theory has its faults and the Fallen Hero is one of the most solid.
Rather than the Great Sea, could the ancient sea referred to by the rock salt be the Lanayru Sea? Although it didn't look like Link was in a desert area when he got the rock salt.
My problem with the game taking place 100 years after OOT in the fallen hero timeline is that... aren't Ganon's whereabouts from the end of OOT to ALttP completely accounted for? The story is that after Link perished Ganon gained the entire Triforce, there was the Imprisoning War, and Ganon was sealed away inside the Dark World where he remained until ALttP. Where could BotW fit in?
The account of the events that happened between OoT and ALttP are vague enough that they could add new details without contradicting what they said before.
The current story is that after Link was defeated, Zelda and the sages sealed Ganon and the triforce away in the Sacred Realm as a last ditch effort. Centuries passed and Ganon's army started spilling out from the Sacred Realm. The knights and sages of that time fought The Imprisoning War to seal the Sacred Realm a second time. No Hero was found who could take up the Master Sword at that time.
So all BotW would do is add the detail that the first sealing of Ganon following Link's defeat in OoT took 100 years to accomplish and they were aided by a resurrected Hero of Time.
That's assuming that in the Fallen Hero timeline, that Link fails at the pinnacle moment of fighting Ganon atop Ganon's Castle. That's never explicitly said, so it's possible he fails before the destruction of Hyrule Castle.
Of course, then that doesn't explain why Link is aged to "adult" and then stopped at that point for 100 years if he's defeated as a child.
Couldn't it be the OoT Link in the WW timeline? Saved the day, fell under a sleeping spell, hyrule under water. Korok seeds got planted and sucked the water. Years pass, landscape changes, Link wakes up.
Unlikely. The WW timeline is without a hero for all those years seemingly because that Link returns to his timeline. Beyond that, Link's only been asleep for 100 years. That would put him smack-dab in the middle of WW when he wakes up. It doesn't work for the Hero of Time to fall asleep for 100 years in the WW timeline.
my guess it's that a world so big needs lot of stuff ,so they just picked from every past zelda game and put everything in it as a giant mish-mash...they will have plenty of time before a new zelda anniversary happens and they need to find an explanation
It's a new timeline offshoot from OoT, where Link doesn't wake up after being sealed in the sacred realm after 7 years, but instead wakes up after 100 years.
It's a new timeline offshoot from OoT, where Link doesn't wake up after being sealed in the sacred realm after 7 years, but instead wakes up after 100 years.
So why does Link age to being an adult for around 7 years and then stops for the next 93? Why does he move from where the Temple of Time to the resurrection place?
They're not related, so I wouldn't read too much into that. Aonuma talks about creating the Guardians in an interview. They're based on Octoroks, with a sci-fi twist.
I kind of want a Zelda that focuses on the Octoroks. They are a staple Zelda enemy appearing in almost every title (TP ruined the perfect attendance award they were given in WW) in different forms. Moblins and co have always been linked to Ganon but Octoroks have always been their own thing.
