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[IDKFA]

If they didn’t release their games on PC day and date. Also they shouldn’t release their exclusives on gamepass day and date or gamepass should have never been a thought either.

True.

I know a couple of people that never bothered buying an Xbox this gen because they can play the same games on their PCs.

 

[Three]

Anybody asking for fewer platforms outside of perhaps quality or budget reasons should sit down and think about what they're asking for. Why would you want this?

 

[ResilientBanana]

False. Xbox would be doing better if they didn’t have the dual console bullshit and had decent single player games. They should have followed in Sony’s footsteps and pushed the envelope but instead they keep fumbling.

 

[LakeOf9]

Yes, but then I wouldn't be playing their games much if at all, so I guess it's a delicate balance between doing the right thing for their console business, and doing the right thing for me specifically

 

[Aguero9320]

I don't know, you seemed to be having a field day laughing at the FTC for demanding exactly what you should have been happy about instead of supporting them.



Thankfully the CMA pushed that through anyway.

Haven't changed my opinion. It's nonsensical that the FTC even had an opinion on it, and the courts agreed which is why they lost that process so horrifically... Almost as nonsensical as you trawling through post histories trying to find an edge

And not that it matters, but I think you'll find that Microsoft did those deals, not the CMA. And this might be too nuanced a position for you to understand as a committed warrior, but I firmly believe that all producers should be willing put their product on all platforms, but if one (or more) isn't playing ball no one has the right to force another to do it. Needs to happen by people coming to their senses, which thankfully seems to be the case.

 

[Pop]

Day 1 exclusives on PC and Gamepass was the death of Xbox console.

But maybe that's what they were going for

 

[Aguero9320]

So you are saying that platform manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to own game studios?

Or that any studio they own should be forced by law to make games for the competition's platform so we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya together in peace and harmony?

The only people being forced to do anything are gamers, who have no choice but to spend hundreds of dollars/pounds/whatever on hardware if they want access to certain games.

I never said anything, any where about platform/game manufacturers being forced to do anything. They should come to their senses on their own.

 

[Bonfires Down]

I assume there’s no actual evidence of this? Because I disagree that releasing on PC has made a significant difference for their console business.

 

[Gp1]

Game as a service guys, forget the hardware.

Is MS making money with the Xbox hardware?

 

[systemr123]

Periodical reminder that Xbox's fall from grace began before their PC and gamepass strategy.

True, their PC and Gamepass strategy is only an accelerator to the fall from grace. It started way earlier than that.

 

[mayham2199]

I assume there’s no actual evidence of this? Because I disagree that releasing on PC has made a significant difference for their console business.

I think it's part of the reason. I also think the horrible job they've been doing since the Xbox one is finally catching up to them.

 

[Bonfires Down]

True.

I know a couple of people that never bothered buying an Xbox this gen because they can play the same games on their PCs.

If they were only using the Xbox to play a handful of exclusives then Microsoft would probably prefer they just buy the games on PC instead so they won’t have to take that $100+ loss on the hardware.

 

[SNG32]

Anybody asking for fewer platforms outside of perhaps quality or budget reasons should sit down and think about what they're asking for. Why would you want this?

I believe if you have a console first party games should be exclusive for a period of time then released on PC afterwards. I don’t think it should be a crazy long time for pc realease though like a year max and a minimum of three months. That’s if the timeframe can produce a good PC port.

 

[IDKFA]

If they were only using the Xbox to play a handful of exclusives then Microsoft would probably prefer they just buy the games on PC instead so they won’t have to take that $100+ loss on the hardware.

This is also true.

Microsoft are still making money, but not selling as many consoles and taking a loss on hardware.

 

[RickMasters]

Tactically speaking…… I think they should have just focused on Xbox. Especially with all the studios they own these days.


But as others have said here they are more focused on gamepass. With the Xbox, the PC, mobile and smart TVs playing these games in some form or another.


I don’t think that devalues Xbox, personally but I understand the advantage they would have had. I don’t think the current situation changes anything.


There will always bee an Xbox because there will always need to a box under the TV. Every windows PC owner is Potentially a gamepass subscriber. The phones, TVs are just devices you might also have it installed on as opposed to buying multiple consoles or computers. I’m able to play games in more rooms in my house than I ever have before. I think a few years from now the benefits to the end consumer will be more obvious…. And they will be in the position of being the one of the two most powerful companies in the tech space with a shit token of studios and IPs. There does come a point where consoles are as niche as graphics cards in a few years. And MS will be in a very strong position when that happen. It’s about the account and the sub for these companies. MS knows this. Sony are starting to KNOW it. Next few years will be interesting indeed. But anybody who thinks Xbox is throwing in the towel is going to be disappointed. I’m pretty sure of that.

 

[nial]

Where did this "hurr durr exclusives are bad these companies are stupid for making me buy these machines to play said exclusives ugh ugh" narrative come from? It's starting to feel like brainwashing.

 

[Three]

Haven't changed my opinion. It's nonsensical that the FTC even had an opinion on it, and the courts agreed which is why they lost that process so horrifically... Almost as nonsensical as you trawling through post histories trying to find an edge

Why was it nonsensical? They had the exact same logic as you "Being forced to buy specific hardware to play any game is stupid" and they defended that position for the consumer. Yet there you were laughing.

And not that it matters, but I think you'll find that Microsoft did those deals, not the CMA.

If your own warrior sensibilities say so I guess it must be true, but no they did those deals because both the CMA and FTC sought to block the deal based on COD being foreclosed on other platforms. MS offered 3 years. The CMA and FTC sought to block the deal based on the importance of COD remaining multiplatform and MS fought tooth and nail suggesting COD is not essential content so that they can make it exclusive to their platforms. Even you agreed at the time they should make it exclusive:

With the rumours of COD taking a break this year, I think PlayStation might have already served it's last tour.

I can't believe we are having the 'Starfield won't be exclusive' experience all over again

I'd expect TV apps and a streaming "stick" to be announced this year, ready to bring COD into every living room via Gamepass.

This really is deja vu of the worst kind. Substitute "they'll make everything else exclusive but Starfield and Elder Scrolls will still come to PlayStation, they won't leave that money on the table" with "they'll make everything else exclusive but Call of Duty will still come to PlayStation, they won't leave that money on the table".

The biggest incentives to buy Bethesda were Elder Scrolls and Starfield. The biggest reason for this deal is Call of Duty - the entire MS leadership should be fired if they even consider doing anything but making future CODs exclusive to their platform (and I mean Gamepass, not Xbox, as Gamepass is now the Microsoft gaming platform in essence.)

I can't wait for your suggestion of MS leadership being fired since they made COD multiplatform. Oh wait, you've changed your tune. why weren't you singing "MS shouldn't and doesn't want it exclusive" before the deal was blocked? Why were you not showing your displeasure that some might be forced to buy hardware and instead egging it on?

 

[eNT1TY]

...if they were named Sony.

 

[cireza]

If they didn’t release their games on PC day and date. Also they shouldn’t release their exclusives on gamepass day and date or gamepass should have never been a thought either.

Bu bu but they would lose that PC money and that Game Pass money don't you think ??!!?

 

[Topher]

I’d rather be fake.

Fake this guy would rather be you

 

[FoxMcChief]

I believe if you have a console first party games should be exclusive for a period of time then released on PC afterwards. I don’t think it should be a crazy long time for pc realease though like a year max and a minimum of three months. That’s if the timeframe can produce a good PC port.

Nah. I’d rather MS stay pro-consumer and release their products on PC, Console and the Cloud all at once. Get the games in as many Xbox ecosystem hands as possible.

 

[NickFire]

In the abstract they would sell more consoles without PC day / date. But would they have been able to justify the last two acquisitions without PC being day / date? And how many more consoles would they really have sold without the last two acquisitions? At a minimum, they did get a lot of hype from the games they acquired.

I really don't think PC is their issue. IMO, their issue is 10+ years of failure to create needle moving games. The last two acquisitions just delayed this conversation from early 2021 until early 2024.

 

[Aguero9320]

I can't wait for your suggestion of MS leadership being fired since they made COD multiplatform. Oh wait, you've changed your tune. why weren't you singing "MS shouldn't and doesn't want it exclusive" before the deal was blocked? Why were you not showing your displeasure that a some might be forced to buy hardware and instead egging it on?

Again, you're missing that opinions don't have to be black and white. I don't like exclusives (or console wars), my post history (which you seem worryingly familiar with) is consistent on that. But in a landscape where the "competition" is leveraging exclusives hard I didn't expect Microsoft to be bold enough to take a lead on doing it differently. I also don't think it's guaranteed to be a good decision, and there's a fair chance the leadership ultimately will be fired for making it if it doesn't pan out.

None of which changes my personal opinion, as someone who isn't a leader in Sony, Microsoft or Nintendo, that exclusives are bad for the consumer and championing them so you can feel better about whichever side you picked is ridiculous.

You do you though - you can be happy with the two options available to you: 1) missing out on games you would like to play or 2) paying hundreds for ANOTHER console that you didn't actually want. Personally, I'm going to half heartedly oppose that kind of nonsense.

That's my last post on this btw. Hate when I get sucked into this kind of bullshit.

 

[Topher]

In the abstract they would sell more consoles without PC day / date. But would they have been able to justify the last two acquisitions without PC being day / date? And how many more consoles would they really have sold without the last two acquisitions? At a minimum, they did get a lot of hype from the games they acquired.

I really don't think PC is their issue. IMO, their issue is 10+ years of failure to create needle moving games. The last two acquisitions just delayed this conversation from early 2021 until early 2024.

Yeah, pretty much. Play Anywhere and Game Pass were attempts to salvage Xbox from irrelevancy and in some ways they succeeded as they kept Xbox in the conversation. As you said, they certainly didn't have the games so Phil Spencer turned lemons in lemonade the best he could. The acquisitions, so far, have produced very little unfortunately and so the annual lamentation of the state of Xbox continues.

 

[SNG32]

In the abstract they would sell more consoles without PC day / date. But would they have been able to justify the last two acquisitions without PC being day / date? And how many more consoles would they really have sold without the last two acquisitions? At a minimum, they did get a lot of hype from the games they acquired.

I really don't think PC is their issue. IMO, their issue is 10+ years of failure to create needle moving games. The last two acquisitions just delayed this conversation from early 2021 until early 2024.

I agree that PC allowed them to overestimate in them getting those acquisitions but because they are focusing on the game pass service I truly believe they will stay making mediocre games. Call of duty is already digressing after activitsion acquisition and I don’t expect it to get any better.

 

[RoboFu]

play anywhere is the most pro gamer/consumer thing going right now and everyone should be screaming for Sony and 3rd parties to follow suit.

 

[StueyDuck]

If they didn’t release their games on PC day and date. Also they shouldn’t release their exclusives on gamepass day and date or gamepass should have never been a thought either.

the biggest issue would be that they "lost" (these consoles still sell a shit ton, even for Xbox) the generation that tied people into online accounts, while 360 and PS3 online accounts did lock some users in, it was the PS4 XBone gen that locked you in for good and made losing/abandoning that account a financial waste, following much what happened in the mobile market like with Apple and the IStore.

I'd be willing to bet those who cannot afford all the consoles most likely got the one they already have a backwards library for as well as whatever other purchases they may have made.

 

[Del_X]

Yeah but I like playing them on PC, so...

 

[GHG]

Consumers arguing for worse things for themselves will never stop being fascinating.

Considering your activity in the DRM threads of late this is deeply ironic.

Considering you typically side with the corporations that says to me these things are not in fact better for the consumer. Neither their PC initiative nor gamepass (or both of them combined) have resulted in better products for consumers. Hence people are voting with their wallets.

Where did this "hurr durr exclusives are bad these companies are stupid for making me buy these machines to play said exclusives ugh ugh" narrative come from? It's starting to feel like brainwashing.

Phil Spencer.

 

[Sinfulgore]

Microsoft doesn't care about the "console space". All they care about is making money and giving players the most options will bring in the most money. I feel like too many people on Neogaf are still following the old logic of selling the most hardware or games is best but gaming has changed. You can release a successful free-to-play game and bring in way more profit than a first-party game that sells 20+ million copies.

 

[M1chl]

Nah, Direct X and all that.

 

[Ozriel]

Considering your activity in the DRM threads of late this is deeply ironic.

I was as clear as glass. Capcom fucked up and should be held responsible. People going over to harass Enigma makes no sense.

I can’t be held responsible for your failure to comprehend what I posted there.

Considering you typically side with the corporations that says to me these things are not in fact better for the consumer. Neither their PC initiative nor gamepass (or both of them combined) have resulted in better products for consumers. Hence people are voting with their wallets.

Another weird take
Quality of XGS games is not impacted in any way by releasing on PC.
Releasing games on PC gives consumers an option on where to buy their games, allows crossbuy via Play Anywhere and allows people to play their games without buying an Xbox. It is objectively a consumer positive decision to put their games on PC day 1.

And yes, people who buy their games on Steam are happily voting with their wallets.

Hope this helps.

 

[Barakov]

If they didn’t release their games on PC day and date. Also they shouldn’t release their exclusives on gamepass day and date or gamepass should have never been a thought either.

Ehhhh...maybe. It would give people a reason to own a Xbox, though. It seems like for a lot of people not much reason to have a Xbox if you have a gaming capable PC that can play those games.

 

[bitbydeath]

play anywhere is the most pro gamer/consumer thing going right now and everyone should be screaming for Sony and 3rd parties to follow suit.

Where was this attitude when Sega went the “play anywhere” route?

 

[Ultra Donny]

Would it cover the loss from not releasing them on PC? I don't have the numbers but I think it's a well considered choice from Microsoft.

 

[GHG]

I was as clear as glass. Capcom fucked up and should be held responsible. People going over to harass Enigma makes no sense.

I can’t be held responsible for your failure to comprehend what I posted there.

No it was pretty clear. No surprises you side with the company that creates the shitty DRM.

Another weird take
Quality of XGS games is not impacted in any way by releasing on PC.
Releasing games on PC gives consumers an option on where to buy their games, allows crossbuy via Play Anywhere and allows people to play their games without buying an Xbox. It is objectively a consumer positive decision to put their games on PC day 1.

And yes, people who buy their games on Steam are happily voting with their wallets.

Hope this helps.

Yeh the latest Forza Motorsport is a piece of shit, especially on PC, so people are in fact voting with their wallets. And in the cases like Starfield where they feel like they've been duped then people are leaving reviews as they deem appropriate.

Releasing games on PC and dumping them on gamepass day one has not resulted in an improvement in the quality of their output and games. So all in all, people who are on the sidelines (especially from a console perspective) witness all of this taking place and it gives them even less of a reason to invest in an ecosystem that doesn't enforce high standards upon itself (and quite clearly doesn't know how). Like I said, people are indeed voting with their wallets.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Calling Microsoft’s manipulations pro-consumer will always be funny to me.

 

[GHG]

Calling Microsoft’s manipulations pro-consumer will always be funny to me.

Personally I'm not seeing how their games being on PC day one is beneficial when, with the exception of Hifi Rush, all of their recent ones have released in such a state that I don't want to buy them (or even bother to purchase a gamepass sub to play them).

Maybe that in itself is the pro-consumer aspect in all of this? Nothing is worth buying or playing so you get to save both time and money.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Yeh the latest Forza Motorsport is a piece of shit, especially on PC, so people are in fact voting with their wallets. And in the cases like Starfield where they feel like they've been duped then people are leaving reviews as they deem appropriate.

Releasing games on PC and dumping them on gamepass day one has not resulted in an improvement in the quality of their output and games. So all in all, people who are on the sidelines (especially from a console perspective) witness all of this taking place and it gives them even less of a reason to invest in an ecosystem that doesn't enforce high standards upon itself (and quite clearly doesn't know how). Like I said, people are indeed voting with their wallets.

For me Forza's biggest issue feels like they set out first and foremost to intentionally make the game a grind and fun was an afterthought because this is truly my least liked/played Forza ever

Starfield is a decent game it just fell flat (with me at least) on expectations and people like myself were too harsh on it because of what I had hoped it would be, even though I knew it was coming in hot.

Gamepass is fine but releasing on PC day and date has hurt console sales but then again deep down MS don't care if you play on Xbox or PC

 

[GHG]

For me Forza's biggest issue feels like they set out first and foremost to intentionally make the game a grind and fun was an afterthought because this is truly my least liked/played Forza ever

Starfield is a decent game it just fell flat (with me at least) on expectations and people like myself were too harsh on it because of what I had hoped it would be, even though I knew it was coming in hot.

Gamepass is fine but releasing on PC day and date has hurt console sales but then again deep down MS don't care if you play on Xbox or PC

Lately it feels like not only do they not care about whether people play on PC or Xbox, but they also don't care about the state in which they are releasing their games.

They should start caring a lot more, about everything. This current degree of apathy is not going to end well for anyone.

 

[I_D]

It's important to remember that Microsoft doesn't really care where the money comes from, as long as the money comes in.
If all of their games suddenly sold majority-PC instead of console, there's absolutely no doubt that they'd drop Xbox without a second thought.
If all of their games suddenly sold majority-console instead of PC, they'd drop PC support.
Or if their games stopped profiting at all, they'd instantly drop that entire concept and move on to something else.

This means that any sort of talk about 'quality' is missing the point. Microsoft only needs just enough quality to make people buy the game. Any more than that is a waste of resources.
(Note: Most companies act this way, so I'm not bashing Microsoft, or anybody else. It's just business.)


Yes, Microsoft would unquestionably sell more consoles if they never released games on PCs.
But the sale of consoles would - almost certainly - not offset the sale of PC games.
Thus, they release on multiple platforms, as is the case for most companies.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Lately it feels like not only do they not care about whether people play on PC or Xbox, but they also don't care about the state in which they are releasing their games.

They should start caring a lot more, about everything.

That is becoming a very concerning trend of shipping unfinished games

 

[GHG]

That is becoming a very concerning trend of shipping unfinished games

It's important to state they are not alone in this, particularly on the PC side of things. But if there's any company who shouldn't have any excuses when it comes to this it's them.

 

[bender]

Would it cover the loss from not releasing them on PC? I don't have the numbers but I think it's a well considered choice from Microsoft.

Microsoft does and they haven't walked back the decision so...

 

[iHaunter]

Less choice where to play... Less value in Gamepass...

Then the GP numbers drop too. GP PC is probably what's holding them up at this point.

 

[Beechos]

If ms did this all for the gamers shit and gamepass stuff when xbox one Iaunched i have no doubt they'd be neck and neck with sony right now. Most people have already chosen their ecosystems at this point.

 

[ReBurn]

How so? They would make more money in software sales, they would sell more hardware plus releasing on pc at a later date the get pc sales and double dippers if the game is a success.

Games should only be on gamepass if they have maximized in profitability. Software sales physical and digital should be a priority.

Also Starfield could have been pirated day one on pc. This is one of the reasons for a later date release on pc.

I don't think they would make more money in software sales. I think PC-first gamers would just forego the purchase of Microsoft's first party games if they had to buy an Xbox console to play them.

 

[Three]

You do you though - you can be happy with the two options available to you: 1) missing out on games you would like to play or 2) paying hundreds for ANOTHER console that you didn't actually want. Personally, I'm going to half heartedly oppose that kind of nonsense.

That's my last post on this btw. Hate when I get sucked into this kind of bullshit.

You seem to be confused. I'm not advocating for exclusives or that kind of nonsense. I'm questioning why you were so giddy at the idea of MS making COD exclusive "like Starfield & Elder Scrolls" and not supportive of those fighting for your rights so that, in your own words, people aren't "forced to buy hardware to play a game".

You championing "bold" MS, suggesting regulators had nothing to do with keeping CoD multiplatform and it was MS' doing while previously crying tears of joy suggesting that they would be stupid if they do anything but make them exclusive like the other games clues me in as to why though.

 

[RoboFu]

Where was this attitude when Sega went the “play anywhere” route?

I didn’t even know they did?
They let you purchase once and play across all platforms? When was that?


I don’t think some of know exactly what play anywhere is. If you are against you are quite frankly … dumb.

 

[ClosBSAS]

lmao, not at all. pc brings them tons of money, specially steam.