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Let's talk about Grand Strategy.

This was my first thought. I remember when Koei made strategy games. Before Dynasty Warriors.
Now that I'm done playing J.B. Harold Murder Club, Koei games are looking mighty fine a choice. My gut's urging me to play Nobunaga's Ambition II, the installment where generals are introduced. But I should thinker with the 1986 enhanced version of the original (also localized) just so I can get used to how base Nobunaga plays.
 

Shengar

Member
Would Koei games like Nobunaga's Amibiton, Sangokushi, and Gemfire count here? They pioneered grand strategy mechanics well before anyone, in addition to increasing the scale of strategy games relative to all but the most complex mainframe games.

I don't know if you can call Koei's strategy games (ah, how I missed them) as grand strategy because they mostly turn based, focused on the military aspect and historical personalities. The latter though what makes me really missed Koei's RotK. Perhaps that's what also makes CKII the most popular grand strategy game (not the historical part of course, but the personality).
 
In the 4X space we have Gal Civ 3 coming soonish anyway.

I love 4X games, but ever since I started playing Paradox's games, they have been unfufilling in their political systems. I want to start out as a One Planet Minor Republic and end up an Autocratic Human Empire with aliens on the rimward fringes.
at least in my dream game.
 

zer0das

Banned
200 hours into EU4 and I have no real idea how the trade system works. I just ignore it (which is easy, because I never really play as OPM lol).

Edit: LMAO and OF COURSE the post above me describes the trade system in detail. Of course.

Personally I feel like getting a some what reasonable grasp of concepts in things without worrying about the details helps a lot. The trade system in particular, there's a lot of little things that make the system complex (like the HRE minors tend to suck a really disproportionate amount of trade their way relative to how much you'd expect, due to the inland trade bonus, so its hard to actually control HRE nodes without conquering a lot). But you just have to get the rough idea to benefit from trade without having to worry about every last detail. Although knowing Frankfurt can give you like thousands of gold in treaties is a useful side effect of knowing the above haha.

The TLDR is the end nodes Venice, Sevilla, and the English Channel are godly, conquer their trade centers and steer trade their way if you can, and have a ton of light ships. And abuse trade companies in Africa/Asia.
 
I've been playing these series since EU2. Paradox about three or so years ago really turned the corner on the polish they put into this series and it is now not unsurprisingly one of the most popular exclusive series on the PC. Paradox Development Studios has done a tremendous job at cultivating a ever growing fanbase for their games and finding a business model that lets their games really evolve and improve post-release.

I want to throw some weight behind Victoria 2-once you understand how to manipulate industrialization and population, the game is a real gem and really does a bang up job of letting games turn into the kind of dickwaggling contest between major powers that 19th century geopolitics actually was. Sound awesome? It is!

I find that EU4 is the best game in the series mechanically, but is somewhat thematically weaker. It is awesome for megalomaniacal types looking to really paint maps using clever play and demonstrating mastery of the game's mechanics (which change constantly via patches) in order to bypass the "restrictor plates" that the game has in place to control player expansion. However, the period is somewhat dry thematically so the kind of emergent narrative that makes this series so strong feels muted in comparison with other games in the series.

Great stuff though. I want to give a shoutout to EU:Rome, that game is far better w/ the expansion and mods than people give it credit for and serves as a perfect complement to Total War's EB1/EB2 mods.
 

coastel

Member
Massive fan of hoi2 really have put loads of hours into it. Need to play a lot of the others you have listed but my laptop would not run them how I would want. Building a PC this year coming mainly for games like this.
 

Kabouter

Member
Anyone else have a favorite country to play as? I've probably played (to completion) at least 3 or 4 Byzantium games in EU4. I've never actually done it, but its always my goal to try to recreate the Roman Empire. One day... I will.

Ethiopia, seriously.

eu4_map_eth_1687_11_05nph3.png

TDM to go into meltdown over horrific borders

I find that EU4 is the best game in the series mechanically, but is somewhat thematically weaker. It is awesome for megalomaniacal types looking to really paint maps using clever play and demonstrating mastery of the game's mechanics (which change constantly via patches) in order to bypass the "restrictor plates" that the game has in place to control player expansion. However, the period is somewhat dry thematically so the kind of emergent narrative that makes this series so strong feels muted in comparison with other games in the series.

Great stuff though. I want to give a shoutout to EU:Rome, that game is far better w/ the expansion and mods than people give it credit for and serves as a perfect complement to Total War's EB1/EB2 mods.

EU4's gameplay fits the period at least. Megalomania was pretty much what defined many of the most famous leaders of Europe's great powers in that period :p
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Byzantium is very interesting country to play with in both EU IV and CK II (even more interesting if you start as a doux or count).
 
Soooo, got a steam popup saying the Way of Life expansion for CK II is now live. Can someone more knowledgeable than myself explain why I should be excited over the focus stuff and whether it's worth getting this?
 

Mr E.

Member
Would a crappy laptop (3 years old nothing special) be able to run these type of games ? I'm think hearts of iron in particular.
 
Man, I love these games so much in concept, but I'm so bad at them. Like, I don't even mean "the game is too hard to figure out", because I end up figuring out how the games work (specifically CK2 and EU4) but even though I know how the game is played I get too impatient and want the cool stuff to happen so I declare war on somebody and get my ass handed to me, or I'll go on a conquering spree and then my ruler will die and the heir gets fucked by a succession war almost immediately...I just resign myself to not ever getting one of these super empires that I always see here and on /r/paradoxplaza.
 
Man, I love these games so much in concept, but I'm so bad at them. Like, I don't even mean "the game is too hard to figure out", because I end up figuring out how the games work (specifically CK2 and EU4) but even though I know how the game is played I get too impatient and want the cool stuff to happen so I declare war on somebody and get my ass handed to me, or I'll go on a conquering spree and then my ruler will die and the heir gets fucked by a succession war almost immediately...I just resign myself to not ever getting one of these super empires that I always see here and on /r/paradoxplaza.

There are speed settings if you want to Get Shit Done™. Just don't play any sort of ironman mode if you do, because the constant saving slows things down a lot.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I have high hopes for HoI4. I could never get into HoI3, but I absolutely adored Darkest Hour, I put maybe 500 hours into that game for $15 lol. Paradox is getting better and better at accessibility, so hopefully HoI 4 is a monster.

I also really want EU4: Rome.

I wouldn't mind a Vicky 3 as well. I could not grasph Vicky 2 despite two separate attempts, so I'd like to see what a modern paradox take on it would be, since the idea of that game is pretty cool.
 

Smo21

Member
Crusader Kings II is on sale on steam. I'm in Canada so price may be different.
Base game is $10.99, full collection is $43.74.

Been waiting for a sale on this game, definitely biting. Is the Full collection worth it or should i just stick with the base game?
 
It takes a certain kind of person to like these games. Personally I'm waiting for new HoI (and Victoria). Haven't played the current ones and I'm kinda "scared" after the more "friendly" CK2/EU4 to try them out.

If you are intrested in the game, wait for the main game to be on sale and see if you like it. Even if you don't buy the DLC, those patches have a lot of free features and your game isn't exactly "barebones" without those. (Like the overhaul of the game map in 1.8)
Also there is a demo but I have no idea if they have changed it with the patches.

Be warned though, these games are serious timesinks.

fbagsw.png


And I'm still not exactly "amazing" in it. EU4 is much easier to get in than CK2 like people said. But it's still a rather complex game, not to mention that some achievements are insane!


You get to do fun stuff like this:
Yes they are easier countries, don't judge :(

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/35224754533616110/E6B1BE795281504427357B5766A6C8D5720147F6/

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/35223487257008486/C6098F4514BE2477B518E82DFFEB7EDA8DEF0FF0/
Yes, that is Holy French Empire.
 
I don't know if you can call Koei's strategy games (ah, how I missed them) as grand strategy because they mostly turn based, focused on the military aspect and historical personalities.
Hmm, even something like Nobunaga has you taking command of not just the military, but your feudal provinces in terms of economy and civics. You first select which daimyo to play as, then you build up your infrastructure before digging into diplomacy and, if so desired, hex-based wargaming. I'm also not sure why Nobunaga or Sangokushi being historical disqualifies either of them, let alone the other such games Koei's made. Whether or not the Paradox games are more complex than even the most recent Koei titles, both companies make grand strategy as far as definitions go.

For comparison, look at Uncharted Waters II, which is much closer to what people call a CRPG. You don't command a whole nation (aka a Japanese feudal province or a Chinese kingdom), but rather one individual who can amass influence and experience over a lifetime.
 
I absolutely love CK2 though I haven't been playing it much recently.

I haven't been able to get into EUIV at all. Maybe the abstractness of the countries or the luck based events hurt it for me.

I know one thing for sure is that if you fail in CK2 it can be hilarious and you can plot your way back up into a dukedom/kingdom/etc whereas everytime I play EUIV it feels like I mess up once and I just end up in something of a death spiral or stagnation that I can't get out of.

And even if I'm not dead I can't do much for a long time whereas with CK2 I can at least look at other rulers and plot as to ways into worming my way back into power.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
I like CK2 the most out of all those listed, although it's a very different game from the others.

The role-playing elements make it more of a dynastic simulator than a grand strategy game, although its gameplay represents the middle ages much better than any other game.
 

zer0das

Banned
Ethiopia, seriously.



TDM to go into meltdown over horrific borders



EU4's gameplay fits the period at least. Megalomania was pretty much what defined many of the most famous leaders of Europe's great powers in that period :p

That looks a lot like my AoW Ethiopia run, except I took over more of Poland/Lithuania and less of Russia. You even stopped mid-Africa and at Kilwa like I did. Eerie. (I'm ignoring overseas/Britain :p).
 

The Llama

Member
After playing a few central European games in EU4, I've become addicted to vassals. I just get a bunch and then don't even bother building up my own armies, I attack places and let them do everything.
 

KorrZ

Member
X5ttaci.png


This is definitely the thread for me. I have every new game that I could ever want to play on PS4, PC, whatever. Yet I still find myself spending entire weekends binge playing EU4. It is truly one of the most fun games I have ever played.

I've always been a huge fan of history and games like EU4, CK2, Total War have always captured that interest better than any other games out there.
 
Yep, it's a pretty great deal. I just grabbed the Old Gods and Legacy of Rome DLC along with a couple of the song packs for less than a fiver.

I've got my fingers crossed that Charlemagne pops up in a flash sale over Christmas
 
Literally the only 3 things that are stopping me from putting a truly horrifying number of hours into CKII and EU4 are:

-No inter-religious marriage for my Jewish Ethiopian (Axum, technically) dynasty
-No special traits for said country after I bootstrap it up to EU4 time period
-Weird EU4 tech system (tied to westernization? Wut?)

If they ever fix that (or I find a mod that does same), I'm terrified of what will happen to my life.
 

Striek

Member
I'm only 10 minutes into the tutorial of CK2 and already my mind is like "gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah". Infromation overload.
 

Renekton

Member
Is Grand Strategy = 4x?

I got Sins of Solar Empire and Endless Space off Steam sales long ago, and they quickly overwhelmed my tiny brain.
 

zoku88

Member
Is Grand Strategy = 4x?

I got Sins of Solar Empire and Endless Space off Steam sales long ago, and they quickly overwhelmed my tiny brain.

No. Grand Strategy games are closer to wargames. Maybe like... wargame style but also focusing on diplomacy, economy and other aspects of countries.. I guess...
 
Is Grand Strategy = 4x?

I got Sins of Solar Empire and Endless Space off Steam sales long ago, and they quickly overwhelmed my tiny brain.

.... literally in the OP dude :p

No, 4X games are not similar. You could make a case for Sins ("real time 4x") being somewhat closer, but it's still a very different type of game.
 

Kabouter

Member
That looks a lot like my AoW Ethiopia run, except I took over more of Poland/Lithuania and less of Russia. You even stopped mid-Africa and at Kilwa like I did. Eerie. (I'm ignoring overseas/Britain :p).

I got a PU with England at one point (well, I did have to fight Portugal and their Castilian ally over it, but yeah :p), so that's why I have the British isles. I need to expand basically everywhere though, I'm not even halfway to having 1001 provinces.
 
As a member of a Native American tribe I find the EU series a bit distasteful, but the German royalty in my bloodline is keen on trying CK2. However, I'm not sure I really have the time to spare towards building an empire.

I miss the Romance of the Three Kingdoms games. The last one I played was on the PS2, and Koei seems to just not care about their grand strategy roots anymore.
 
As a member of a Native American tribe I find the EU series a bit distasteful, but the German royalty in my bloodline is keen on trying CK2. However, I'm not sure I really have the time to spare towards building an empire.

I got a thread locked on the paradox forums once because after a Paradox employee said "we will not simulate genocide in our games" (referencing Hearts of Iron 3), I asked why there was an "attack natives" button in EU3 / 4.
 

Xando

Member
Started playing Victoria 2(bought the collection) yesterday. It's quite easy to get into if you played EU4 and HOI3 imo.

Playing as prussia kinda sucks though. Can't attack russia/france because they're allys and prussia is too weak for a 2 front war.
 
I usually get an alliance with either France or Russia as first priority to beat up up Austria and grab the sphere of influence. Defeating France as Prussia is a tough fight, but certainly not impossible if you beeline some mil techs. The Prussian army is really good. You mainly just want Russia on side for that war to keep them off your back, not actually to help with the fighting.

If you can get soldiers to all of the sectors around an enemy, then defeat them in battle, they instantly get destroyed instead of retreating. Encirclement is a viable strategy for battle, then. Make sure you mobilize all your reserves quicksmart and get them into large fighting units tho.

If you want a real challenge as Prussia, you can try to form "Great Germany" by sphering Austria before you form Germany. If they are in your sphere, they get folded into Germany just like all the other Germanic minors. The trick is you've got to beat them down out of Great Power status. Usually by occupying the whole nation until their factories all go bankrupt and they fall out of the great power game. Gotta act fast before they bounce back though, so everything else has to be in position!
 

Kabouter

Member
Started playing Victoria 2(bought the collection) yesterday. It's quite easy to get into if you played EU4 and HOI3 imo.

Playing as prussia kinda sucks though. Can't attack russia/france because they're allys and prussia is too weak for a 2 front war.

Attack others to gain strength? Like Austria. I mean, Prussia went to war with Austria before dealing with France, so...
 
I would just love to get into these kinds of games...I just never can squeeze in enough gaming minutes with work, a wife, and two kids to get through a stinking tutorial. So...it's another round of Domination in CoD for me...

Jesus wept.
 

Soph

Member
Finally a thread about Grand Strategy on GAF! I always wanted to start one myself but couldn't be bothered making a great OT.

Like others I've played hundreds of hours of EUIV and CKII and the achievement hunting sometimes becomes a ridiculous obsession for me. Currently going for Dracula's revenge, I almost had it until Hungary fell into a PU under Spain which held Lika, the last province I needed. I declared since it said Austria would help me but the joined in on the defense instead. My poor 30k Romanian soldiers were no match for the 200k of Spain Hungary and Austria together, peace deal gave all my cores away + all of the hungarian lands, trashed my whole country, of course Otto's saw my weakness and declared, then Lithuania and Poland declared. I'm a 4 province minor with Epirus as a vassal again in 1700. Guess I'll have to start over =(. Haha, god I love and hate this game at the same time.. but it's so insanely addicting!

For people who need help with CKII, Arumba has a great LP where you "learn the game together" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAvJJuv1hvM Even I learned some things form him on the CK2 front within this tutorial.
 

Keasar

Member
Maybe I should give Europa Universalis IV another chance. I've always wanted to try and play one but never succeeded, just being presented with all the windows, variables, information and so forth is extremely daunting. I look at it, go "bluh" and then its back to playing Titanfall with my head down in defeat. :(
 

Enco

Member
I love roleplaying in CK2.

I'm not interested in taking over the world or anything. I just enjoy picking a character and pretending to be them for a while.

It's fun playing as an asshole one day and kind leader another.
 

Shengar

Member
I usually get an alliance with either France or Russia as first priority to beat up up Austria and grab the sphere of influence. Defeating France as Prussia is a tough fight, but certainly not impossible if you beeline some mil techs. The Prussian army is really good. You mainly just want Russia on side for that war to keep them off your back, not actually to help with the fighting.

If you can get soldiers to all of the sectors around an enemy, then defeat them in battle, they instantly get destroyed instead of retreating. Encirclement is a viable strategy for battle, then. Make sure you mobilize all your reserves quicksmart and get them into large fighting units tho.

If you want a real challenge as Prussia, you can try to form "Great Germany" by sphering Austria before you form Germany. If they are in your sphere, they get folded into Germany just like all the other Germanic minors. The trick is you've got to beat them down out of Great Power status. Usually by occupying the whole nation until their factories all go bankrupt and they fall out of the great power game. Gotta act fast before they bounce back though, so everything else has to be in position!

As Prussia fanboy, this sounds really cool.
 

AtmaVegeta

Neo Member
I'm a huge fan of Grand Strategy games lately (got into them end of EU3). Like others have said I learned from let's plays of Arumba and Quill.

EU4 is my favorite followed by Victoria 2. I never really got into CK2 (and haven't really tried HOI3, waiting for 4). I'm over 1000 hours on EU4 now just doing different Achievements. After playing this brand, coming from Civ style games, I definitely like grand strategy more (Civ Beyond Earth was such a letdown).
 
I'm a huge fan of Grand Strategy games lately (got into them end of EU3). Like others have said I learned from let's plays of Arumba and Quill.

EU4 is my favorite followed by Victoria 2. I never really got into CK2 (and haven't really tried HOI3, waiting for 4). I'm over 1000 hours on EU4 now just doing different Achievements. After playing this brand, coming from Civ style games, I definitely like grand strategy more (Civ Beyond Earth was such a letdown).

If you want to do world conquests as Albania I'd get in before HoI4 makes it likely impossoble.
 

KorrZ

Member
I'm a huge fan of Grand Strategy games lately (got into them end of EU3). Like others have said I learned from let's plays of Arumba and Quill.

EU4 is my favorite followed by Victoria 2. I never really got into CK2 (and haven't really tried HOI3, waiting for 4). I'm over 1000 hours on EU4 now just doing different Achievements. After playing this brand, coming from Civ style games, I definitely like grand strategy more (Civ Beyond Earth was such a letdown).

I have to agree there. EU4 is the first of the series that I've played and it's incredibly hard to go back to Civilization.
 
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