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[LordPhoque]

Every game by Matsuno. Also Mother 3.

 

[btrboyev]

Panzer Dragoon Saga had some good writing and a really nice plot.

 

[Sir Garbageman]

FFXII, Vagrant Story, and FF Tactics.

 

[Cep]

Well, I don't think anyone is going to compare JRPGs to novels, but you're really overgeneralizing.

True, but he is sort of right.

Most games have weak/bad writing. Period.

Out of the small pool that actually has ANY merit, most of them are child-level (your Marios and what-not) stuff.

Of those that actually have complexity to them, you find your CRPGs of old and to a limited extent, stuff by the following Companies/individuals:

-2k(Bioshock, to an extent)
-Matsuno/A.O. Smith (Their Ivalice stuff, sometimes hard to know who to credit)
-SMT (ESPECIALLY Nocturne)
-Bioware(only gets credit 'cuz everything else is crap),
-Obsidian(If only they knew how to program...)
-Itoi ('Nuff said)
-Amy Henning(Uncharted is mostly movie-level writing (still good), but her LoK stuff is good)
-CD Projekt (Only the Witcher and it had a terrible translation, but there was something there)
-Oh, and Deus Ex

Draw your own conclusions, but it is obvious what I am implying.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Vagrant Story

OH YES MATSUNOOOOOOOOOO!....


Also Final Fantasy Tactics(especially the PSP version with its better translation), and Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne.

As it's been mention FFXII falls into the current gaming trap of people confusing good dialogue and VA for a good plot which FFXII, unfortunately, didn't have.

 

[Patryn]

Suikoden 2 - A tale of two warring countries full of political intrigue and war. It eventually splits into a story of its two leaders: you (the main character) and your best friend (the new king of the other country). It verges into a story about war and the different means it can be absolved - whether through violence (through representation of Luca Blight) or a more peaceful and intelligent course (Jowy's occupation of Greenhill). Although the translation isn't the greatest, it still manages shines through all of that and imo, is up to par with any Matsuno game's writing. Its sequel is no slouch either.

Suikoden 3 - Most rpg plots tell the story through one groups eyes. Suikoden 3 tells the story through four: the Zexans who live to the west, the Grasslanders who are war with the Zexans to the East, the neutral party who's journey somehow gets intertwined with the two other groups, and a final party - the villain. You can choose between three characters, the fourth is unlocked after you get all characters and beat the game. Each character has 3 chapters which serve as a prologue before the 4th chapter, when the story truly begins. This allows to show the conflict from a completely different perspective. Early in the game, Chris, the main character of the Zexen side ends up killing the best friend of the Hugo (main character of the Grasslander side). The Zexens raided a Grasslander town where the a portion of the main characters are and burned the town to the ground.

When you play as Hugo during this section of the game, it's easy to sympathize for his friend. They killed their people, burned their village down, and were causing frenzy after signing a supposed truce. So his friend was angry and tried to swipe down Chris, and failing.

Whereas, on Chris' side of the conflict you are shown a child mad rushing her with no parly. He just wants blood lust, so she defends herself.

The player is given reason to sympathize for both sides, and the story does this pretty damn well for the most part, and keeps things more human and less black and white/good and evil. That said this type of story-telling can also be seen as a curse, as it forces you to revisit certain areas multiple times with different characters to see different outcomes to the same situation, but the game does this well enough on its own to the point where it's not annoying.

It's one of the few rpgs or games period that I have played that actually took one central conflict and gave it different viewpoints. It gave each character their own role in the story, and showed the war has no good or evil. It's just people fighting for what they believe in.

Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne - This is a story about the end of the world. The world ends about 30 minutes into the game. From there, you are turned into a demon and given a free-forming role as you see fit. It is a game of warring philosophies: communism, democracy, individualism. No affiliation is right or wrong. It's a very subdued game with a fantastic translation and excellent writing. It barely has any cutscenes, but it makes up for that in its excellent writing, symbolism, and various uses of multiples themes. In other words, unlike other jrpgs or rpgs period, it does not in any way hold your hand.

Suikoden and SMT series and its spin offs are where I go for when I want a jrpg with an intelligent or at least semi-intelligent plot, characterizations, and script writing. That, and Matusno games.

Am I the only person who never sympathized with Chris, ever? She was invading the Grasslanders lands. She was a knight wearing full armor, facing a kid wearing flimsy clothes.

She was a bitch, and I hated her the entire game.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

FFIX
I remember Vivi trying to make sense of his existence was pretty well done, but maybe my young age and the good music hid the bad writing

FFXII
Anything that wasn't HEY I AM BASCH VAN ROTHESBURG, I AM BASCH wasn't really that bad. Everything Balthier said was gold

 

[Calcaneus]

I think a lot more JRPGs than we are mentioning have moments of good writing, but very few of them can piece it all together into a coherent whole. Like FF VIII, since its on our minds at the moment, has quite a few scenes where I go "that was pretty well done". But when I think of the plot as a whole, it just doesn't mesh together quite right. I think if the writers would just try and keep it relatively small scale, instead of always trying to give us another "universe at stake" plot, we would be a lot more satisfied.

 

[BlueScrote]

The best part of LO by far were the memories. I really wish they had emphasized the aspects of the immortals more than they did. Instead, they let the main story to devolve into pretty standard JRPG cliche.

 

[Cep]

Vagrant Story

OH YES MATSUNOOOOOOOOOO!....


Also Final Fantasy Tactics(especially the PSP version with its better translation), and Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne.

Translation may be better, but Reed went where Smith never did: Ye Older English Lande

Frustrating to say the least, so much so that at times I almost feel like saying that the original was better. Almost.

Final Fantasy XII has good dialogue writing.

But the actual script and character writing are flawed as fuck.

Also, why do people keep saying Mother 3? It has a fun story, but it's not all that. It's pretty standard jrpg fare for the most part.

Is this a result of having played less than 5 jrpgs on all Nintendo systems ever?

Good to see that someone is not blind.

FF12 has the world and ideas and complexity thought of by Matsuno, penned by Watanabe and Translated by A.O. Smith.

Pretty apparent as the World/Lore is fantastic(Matsuno), the script/Bestiary/language impressive(Smith), and dialogue/character/story depth non-existent(Watanabe).

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I really don't think GAF is capable of having this discussion. Protip: if you're operating from the position that Dragon Age has a better story than Tales of Papsmear, you're already off the rails.

 

[LordPhoque]

Where is that Bioware game chart.

The fact that it's always similar doesn't mean it's bad. ME2 has fantastic writing (dialogues, plot, twists)

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Good to see that someone is not blind.

FF12 has the world and ideas and complexity thought of by Matsuno, penned by Watanabe and Translated by A.O. Smith.

Pretty apparent as the World/Lore is fantastic(Matsuno), the script/Bestiary/language impressive(Smith), and dialogue/character/story depth non-existent(Watanabe).

This.

This is Matusno's older games like Tactics Ogre, Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story are more successful. They're more low key, less bombastic. Funnily, when he writes a really BIG game, he ends up going nuts and the writing isn't nearly up to par.

And, again, that the story was never finished.

 

[Cep]

I really don't think GAF is capable of having this discussion. Protip: if you're operating from the position that Dragon Age has a better story than Tales of Papsmear, you're already off the rails.

The entire time through DA:O I kept on being impressed by how well some of the companions were written and dreaded ever leaving camp because I would have to face the sub-FFX plot.

 

[jjasper]

There is a plot twist in ME2? Could have fooled me. Love the game but it is pretty straight forward.

 

[Red Blaster]

ME2 has fantastic writing (dialogues, plot, twists)

Nope.

 

[Cep]

Every character in ME2 has daddy issues.

Every twist in convenient.

The final boss is fucking stupid.

So no. Bioware can make an interesting character, but they can't write their way out of a paper bag. Because the writing is better than jrpgs doesn't make it actually good.

The writing is flawed, typical black and white/good and evil that Bioware adores ever so much.

I'm not saying ME2 has bad writing, but the writing is underdeveloped, flawed, and canned. Suffice to say, it's decent.

Agreed, but ME2 brought us Mordin(he, Garrus and Tali are the only ones that seemed to have received love from the writers), I have a very hard time remembering when last anyone fielded anything as impressive as him (Allister being the the only possible exception).

I really want to make a thread where I make fun of wrpg story conventions and its supporters who think that most wrpgs are ever so much a cut above jrpgs in terms of writing (in fact, they are, but not by much).

:lol :lol :lol :lol

DO IT! It will fucking be EPIC!

 

[Patryn]

The fact that it's always similar doesn't mean it's bad. ME2 has fantastic writing (dialogues, plot, twists)

ME2 has one of the worst plots I've ever seen. It contributes nearly nothing to the main ME narrative, and I'm almost positive that when ME3 comes out a lot of people will be questioning what the point of ME2 was.

Gameplay kicks ass, though.

 

[Revolution number one]

SMT 3 and the mario rpgs are pretty good

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

Mother 3. I don't know how much of it was down to the brilliant fan translation, but it was probably the best written JRPG i've ever played.

I also really enjoyed the writing in Persona 4. It's good writing that didn't need $5 words to leave me entertained.

 

[Ganondorfo]

What was that jrpg again, where your father is your enemy? Damn I forgot the name, it was on ps1, you began on a castle.

 

[jjasper]

ME2 has one of the worst plots I've ever seen. It contributes nearly nothing to the main ME narrative, and I'm almost positive that when ME3 comes out a lot of people will be questioning what the point of ME2 was.

Gameplay kicks ass, though.

If you have the same crew I think I can see the point of the plot, but if they ditch the crew and give you new people then 90% of ME2's plot is pointless.

 

[Agate]

STAR OCEAN 4

Spoiler

lol

Seriously:

FFVI
Chrono Trigger
Persona 4 - Great interpretation of a Japanese Highschool cast + murder mystery
Xenogears - Philosophical
Breath of Fire (

Spoiler

you fight God, making you question if you did was right or wrong for the world

)
Valkyria Chronicles - Light heartwarming story
Earthbound (never got to play Mother 3) - Very light and very heartwarming story.

:lol @ SO4

But I second Breath of Fire, primarily 3..great plot, story progression and character development..in the end, it makes you question a good lot as the main..antagonist is far from the general omg-evildarklord type of person.

Suikoden also had a great story to it, it was rich with detail imo, and 2 was pretty much the pinnacle of it all, though for me 3 and 5 were great in terms of that to.

Xenogears was excellent as well, its twists and turns and philosophical backdrop left you either bewildered or wanting more (aka mindf... lol).

 

[Syril]

What was that jrpg again, where your father is your enemy? Damn I forgot the name, it was on ps1, you began on a castle.

Suikoden?

 

[LordPhoque]

There is a plot twist in ME2? Could have fooled me. Love the game but it is pretty straight forward.

Spoiler

Protheans being Collectors ?
Human Reaper ? (reminded me of Hyperion, TechnoCenter elements building their own god)
Huge Geth revelations through Legion too

Still less than in ME1 but still.

 

[EviLore]

*enters thread*

 

[EviLore]

*leaves thread*

 

[Patryn]

What was that jrpg again, where your father is your enemy? Damn I forgot the name, it was on ps1, you began on a castle.

Final Fantasy X?

 

[ULTROS!]

Suikoden 2 was the first RPG to make me cry. ;_;

Suikoden 2 = Love

 

[Yaweee]

... and there goes another thread lost to WRPG vs. JRPG bickering. Thanks a lot, assholes.

I really want to make a thread where I make fun of wrpg story conventions and its supporters who think that most wrpgs are ever so much a cut above jrpgs in terms of writing (in fact, they are, but not by much).

There's a problem in just how few WRPGs there are, or at least those that are widely known/played. I suspect the thread would end up slamming two or three developers and not much else.

 

[jjasper]

Spoiler

Protheans being Collectors ?
Human Reaper ? (reminded me of Hyperion, TechnoCenter elements building their own god)
Huge Geth revelations through Legion too

Still less than in ME1 but still.

I would consider the first one minor that has no effect on the story. The second one wasn't really a twist but more a resolution to the main question of the game. The last one though could have a huge impact on the series.

But anyway on to the main topic. One problem nowadays is that even if there is a decent story to a jRPG the voice acting is usually so ridiculously bad that i just ignore all the conversations

 

[LordPhoque]

What was the point in Shepard even dying? It seemed to be an arbitrary plot "twist" for tweens and just an elaborate excuse to customize your character's face.

Basically, like the rest of the game, it's another elaborate ruse that looks cool, but adds nothing to the whole.

Which is Bioware in general. They will make a world full of backstory, but a plot with the depth of Super Mario RPG.

Yeah, I know those apples are delicious.

I agree when you say that the background is more interesting than the plot itself. But the plot is still good in ME1 & 2. It's classic, sometimes convenient, but still good. Dialogues are generally extremely well written, especially the ones with Legion and Thane.

 

[Patryn]

There's a problem in just how few WRPGs there are, or at least those that are widely known/played. I suspect the thread would end up slamming two or three developers and not much else.

Bioware and Bethesda. Obsidian would get a lot of love, though.

I agree when you say that the background is more interesting than the plot itself. But the plot is still good in ME1 & 2. It's classic, sometimes convenient, but still good. Dialogues are generally extremely well written, especially the ones with Legion and Thane.

I really don't understand how someone could think the plot in ME2 is in any way good. It's just horrible.

 

[TehOh]

Two pages and only one mention of Valkyria Chronicles?

I am disappointed.

Also up at the top - Mother 2/3, Persona 4

 

[LordPhoque]

I really don't understand how someone could think the plot in ME2 is in any way good. It's just horrible.

Yeah that must be why there's a story discussion thread with a shitload of replies in it.

 

[Cep]

Bioware and Bethesda. Obsidian would get a lot of love, though.



I really don't understand how someone could think the plot in ME2 is in any way good. It's just horrible.

And they would be wrong about Bethesda.

They can build a world, make it feel alive.

But their writing barely makes the cut.

 

[Agate]

Suikoden 2 was the first RPG to make me cry. ;_;

Suikoden 2 = Love

Only games that tugged at me like that was probably Suikoden (1 & 2), BoF 3, and Xenogears..thats about it lol.

oh, and Valkyria Chronicles ftw! still need to finish that sucker up once my friend returns the darn thing lol.

 

[Cep]

Yeah that must be why there's a story discussion thread with a shitload of replies in it.

He is in there, and so am I.

Quite a bit of bitching about how bad some of us think it is.

 

[Ganondorfo]

Final Fantasy X?

Ah no it was suikoden 1, damn that game was full of plottwists, maybe the most plottwists ever in a rpg *thinks of xenogears* I am sorry, didnt think about xenogears lol or tales of symphonia lol.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yeah that must be why there's a story discussion thread with a shitload of replies in it.

That thread is just us mostly talking about cool dialogue that references the first game, what characters we like, or how stupidly Shepard's resurrection is handled.

 

[Cep]

That thread is just us mostly talking about cool dialogue that references the first game, what characters we like, or how stupidly Shepard's resurrection is handled.

Or how epically bad the final boss is.

Spoiler

Soooo bad

 

[LordPhoque]

He is in there, and so am I.

Quite a bit of bitching about how bad some of us think it is.

Might be a keyword here.

And the last boss was awesome. Best last boss in recent memory with Dead Space. Come on did you prefer Saren aka "stalker geth with 3 health bar" ?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yeah that must be why there's a story discussion thread with a shitload of replies in it.

There are entire forums on the internet dedicated to talking about Twilight's story. Just sayin'.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Although this is probably a troll and i might get banned, I must say that The Elder Scrolls : daggerfall (And to a lesser extent, Morrowind) has some of the best flashes of writing genius in any game I've everhad the pleasure of reading. Few other games have the ability to weave together stories of collosal godlike figures, unimaginable past worlds, and hidden societies strictly through stories passed from citizens you happen to ask or books dropped and lost in dungeons and libraries (Or the occasional ghost enemy you charm and then talk to).

Only once you started reading do you recognize how small a role in the Elder Scrolls world you really play, 'Hero'.

 

[LordPhoque]

There are entire forums on the internet dedicated to talking about Twilight's story. Just sayin'.

Yeah but I don't think that games with terrible plots have their own story discussion thread here in the gaming section of neogaf. If the consensus about the plot was so obvious it wouldn't be discussed at all.

 

[Speevy]

Although this is probably a troll and i might get banned, I must say that The Elder Scrolls : daggerfall (And to a lesser extent, Morrowind) has some of the best flashes of writing genius in any game I've everhad the pleasure of reading. Few other games have the ability to weave together stories of collosal godlike figures, unimaginable past worlds, and hidden societies strictly through stories passed from citizens you happen to ask or books dropped and lost in dungeons and libraries (Or the occasional ghost enemy you charm and then talk to).

Only once you started reading do you recognize how small a role in the Elder Scrolls world you really play, 'Hero'.

This is what I've always thought. Certain games would benefit so much from NO voice acting in the story.

What's the point if it takes away from the number of quest lines you can create?

What would you rather do, play a quest or listen to someone talk?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yeah but I don't think that games with terrible plots have their own story discussion thread here in the gaming section of neogaf. If the consensus about the plot was so obvious it wouldn't be discussed at all.

Some people have guilty pleasures and will debate story quality with those who think the story is bad, thus leading to thread dedicated to people talking about it.

Sometimes a new game comes out and people just wanna talk about it.

 

[Cep]

Some people have guilty pleasured and will debate quality thus leading to thread dedicated to people talking about it.

Yeah, we all have guilty pleasures.

For the longest time I actually liked some of the works by Goodkind/Jordan.

I am not proud of this, especially the former.

I also like tales of... skits, but I make no excuses for that.

 

[milkyjay20]

bioware sucks

 

[Speevy]

bioware sucks

Princess Peach sucks.