Support NeoGAF

[PshycoNinja]

Seriously? Is all you do whine about this game? I've been lurking for a long time now and you're vehemently against this game. Guess what, so am I for the most part, and so are Kagari and other members. I don't see them making a concerted effort to bash the game like you do...they usually just let it go or give noncommittal remarks.

I get this is a public forum and all...but there are threads for different games and different interests. If you dislike this game so much just don't pay a lot of attention to it. It's as if you're only focusing on the negatives and not the positives about this game.

I probably won't be buying this game as it's a cluster of plot twists and plot holes that don't make sense, but I have to applaud SE for making this much progress in such a short development time. Sort of promising that they're doing this on short resources.

Hey look I have a fan. :]

That's okay. I don't mean to come across as that. I just have a lot of problems with this game and series. And I have literally been with this game from announcement to now. I was one of the first to play it. I was there when they announced the game. I was there for XIII and XIII-2.

I think I have the right to voice an opinion and counter the hyperbole that gets thrown around here.

Now when someone says "this is a screenshot" and it's concept art, I am going to call you out on it. When you complain about the JRPG genre and say no one changes their clothes throughout the game but say its okay for LR, I am going to call you out on it.

When you say Lightning Returns is going to sell more than XIII-2, be the best JRPG of all time and generalize that those who dislike Lightning are the vocal minority, I am going to roll my eyes and disagree with you.

Should I work on not trying to argue all the time? Yes, absolutely. I see that as a flaw in myself that I do in fact work on.

The funny thing is despite not liking the story or gameplay of XIII and not liking the world or story of XIII-2 there were some things I did like. I made an extra long post about what I liked about XIII and XIII-2 months ago.

I think me wanting LR to be better than what it is not a bad thing. When they announced the game was delayed I said, "good the game needed it". I am not, however, going to turn a blind eye to things they are doing wrong and fans posting incorrect facts to make the game look better. I am all about accuracy and hate when people manipulate facts and tell half truths to put their "most anticipated" game in a better light with everyone.

That's not what I am about.

So to your point, yes I have been a vocal person against this game. That doesn't mean I am not interested. I am a FINAL FANTASY fan and as such I am allowed to be horrified about what they do with the series. Like you said I am not the only one who does this so I don't really understand why you point me out as the sole representation of what is wrong with "haters".

Haha even the haters hate the haters.

Eh, you win some, you lose some. Everyone has different opinions at varying degrees. Just because two people share a similar opinion doesn't mean they agree with how each person exercises their opinion.

 

[PK Gaming]

The best FFXIII character makes a return

hint:

Spoiler

it's sazh

 

[djplaeskool]

No shame in admitting I really want this game.

 

[Sez]

The more of LR I see the more interested I am. I won't be buying it day one but I'll more than likely pick it up when it's much cheaper.

I will. After the big improvement they made with XIII-2 (which I enjoyed a lot, despite disliking Serah) I'm hyped for LR.

Spoiler

I'm also looking forward for a sexy Lightning costume.

 

[Midou]

Hey look I have a fan. :]

I find us in the FFXIII-hate krew at least make fairly solid constructive criticisms. There is no 'lol dis game suX LOL xD'.

 

[RangerBAD]

No shame in admitting I really want this game.

Ditto.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

As rushed as this is, the game doesn't look like shit in any way graphically. It's still one of the better looking JRPGs on PS360, rough edges and all. Stop exaggerating. there's more to quality than either shit or greatest ever.

True, I'm being harsh by saying they are "shit". I'm being harsh on SE in general because I've gotten tired of the bullshit hyperbole they spew out at every turn which they, of course, fail to come through on. And it's not their fault they can't come through on it: some of the claims/promises they make are out of anybodies reach. But the excuse "Well, it was just PR and marketing" doesn't cut it.

Speaking of marketing, the screenshots we have been getting aren't helping LR's case. Some screenshots are perfectly fine. Others make me think that the marketing team was hung over when they decided to show off an area that was clearly not ready to be shown off. Some textures clearly have some bells and whistles put on them, others clearly were just slapped on to fill empty space. I understand this game doesn't have the budget of XIII, but then again most games don't and saying "but it's being rushed and under budgeted" isn't winning any sympathy points from me. The screenshots are making the game look bad half the time. Now, maybe it's because the game really does look bad. Or, giving LR the benefit of the doubt, the marketing team just sucks. Either way, it's not my job to be impressed.

 

[Goli]

I find us in the FFXIII-hate krew at least make fairly solid constructive criticisms. There is no 'lol dis game suX LOL xD'.

Still don't get why you all must enter every thread to say the same things to get the same people to answer the same things all the time.

 

[Toth]

That's not a screenshot. That's concept art.

Also that's not one of the "screenshots" in the article.



Really bro? Really? Are you seriously comparing 500 years to 60 hours? Are you seriously comparing one game not changing attire to multiple games not changing attire?

Okay. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page.

Umm, most RPG quests take place over weeks, months, and even years. Did you really think I meant a literal 60 hours...? Zidane and Tidus never changed their clothes either!

 

[akaoni]

I find us in the FFXIII-hate krew at least make fairly solid constructive criticisms. There is no 'lol dis game suX LOL xD'.

I see.

Well I'll just drive-by post and be on my way.

FFXIII and all games within its umbrella suck, and nothing you say will ever make it not true.

Cheers!

I'll never forget this one.

 

[Ark]

-snip-
So to your point, yes I have been a vocal person against this game. That doesn't mean I am not interested. I am a FINAL FANTASY fan and as such I am allowed to be horrified about what they do with the series. Like you said I am not the only one who does this so I don't really understand why you point me out as the sole representation of what is wrong with "haters".

Because you post the most about it and are the most obnoxious and condescending when doing so. It's very easy to not argue. It's called: not making that post.

Stop trying to justify yourself, are you actually reading what you type? We know you don't like the game; you don't need to remind us of that. Let us make our own decisions about the game.

Oh, and just because you played a demo at E3 and are a '[caps]Final Fantasy[/caps] fan' doesn't give you the 'right' to put down the game in every thread it appears in on GAF and make posts like this.

I will. After the big improvement they made with XIII-2 (which I enjoyed a lot, despite disliking Serah) I'm hyped for LR.

Spoiler

I'm also looking forward for a sexy Lightning costume.

I still haven't played XIII-2. But I've got half a year until LR comes out

 

[Ganon Dragmire]

SE needs to release videos showing more of the mechanics of the game like how quests work, time management, the abilities, customization etc. and not just HUD less trailers so we can have more to discus and speculate.

 

[Shinta]

I'll never forget this one.

One out of hundreds really.

If people focused on real criticism instead of trolling and pictures of Toriyama with a rose, I'd be ecstatic. But to pretend there's no trolling is ridiculous. All one has to do is look at any FF thread to see otherwise.

 

[Meccanical]

I'll never forget this one.

It was a joke, sheesh.

>_>

 

[Shosai]

LTTP here, but is this series any good? I have never played a FF game, so I have no idea what it's about or anything. Is the story good? Gameplay? Would I have to play XIII and XIII-2 to play this one?

It depends on what you look for in an RPG. If it's world exploration and customization over presentation and battle mechanics, then take a pass.

The battle mechanics are super-tight and streamlined, the art looks amazing even though it doesn't really do much with it's world assets, and the story falls on it's face out of the gate and never really goes anywhere. But on it's own, it's a great game. It might actually be better to play XIII before any other Final Fantasy game, as the actual RPG mechanics are a regression from the previous titles. It's like a first franchise installment with the visual polish of a next-gen sequel

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

Really bro? Really? Are you seriously comparing 500 years to 60 hours? Are you seriously comparing one game not changing attire to multiple games not changing attire?

Okay. Just wanted to make sure we are on the same page.

Ninja, are you going to start complaining about how characters don't use the bathroom? Because complaining about how a character doesn't change clothing is about as silly.

And Sazh has a good outfit. Be happy. Fang has a good outfit. Be happy. Poor Lightning doesn't have a single decent looking outfit besides the military-esque outfit.

 

[PshycoNinja]

LTTP here, but is this series any good? I have never played a FF game, so I have no idea what it's about or anything. Is the story good? Gameplay? Would I have to play XIII and XIII-2 to play this one?

Just go ahead and play it to form your opinion.

You already, probably know my opinion but don't let that stop you. I don't think people should scapegoat off of each others opinion. Go in with your own expectations and come back and tell us all what you think.

Ninja, are you going to start complaining about how characters don't use the bathroom? Because complaining about how a character doesn't change clothing is about as silly.

And Sazh has a good outfit. Be happy. Fang has a good outfit. Be happy. Poor Lightning doesn't have a single decent looking outfit besides the military-esque outfit.

I am not.... complaining.

Is anyone reading what I am responding to? My point was that 3 games with same attire != 1 game with the same attire. That's all I said.

Umm, most RPG quests take place over weeks, months, and even years. Did you really think I meant a literal 60 hours...? Zidane and Tidus never changed their clothes either!

All I am trying to say Toth, is that when developers develop a new game with the same characters I expect them to redesign them a bit so they can show a clear change in character from game to game. Keeping the same clothes on Sahz, Vanille and Fang in every single XIII game while redesigning other characters doesn't make much sense...

 

[Valnen]

I just hope they give the XIII saga a satisfying close. I actually enjoyed both first games, and I'm hoping the ending to this one is happy. Because

Spoiler

FFXIII-2 depressed the hell out of me

.

 

[Kagari]

LTTP here, but is this series any good? I have never played a FF game, so I have no idea what it's about or anything. Is the story good? Gameplay? Would I have to play XIII and XIII-2 to play this one?

Start with the PS1 or PS2 era FFs instead.

 

[wmlk]

LTTP here, but is this series any good? I have never played a FF game, so I have no idea what it's about or anything. Is the story good? Gameplay? Would I have to play XIII and XIII-2 to play this one?

Start with the PS1 or PS2 era FFs instead.

I say start with Final Fantasy X.
People like the battle system for that game, and I think it represents a mix of old and new as Square was at the peak of their power at that time while focusing on the modern cinematic approach.

 

[akaoni]

It was a joke, sheesh.

>_>

Did you just happen to reading the thread at this very moment or is there really some kind of groupie thing you guys have going? Be honest.

I know it was a joke, but some believe you got away with murder, Riposte for e.g.

Perfo should have went with the strategy of making crude drive-by posts (maybe boast that he is in fact making a drive-by post while he is at, since that seems cool too).

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

SE needs to release videos showing more of the mechanics of the game like how quests work, time management, the abilities, customization etc. and not just HUD less trailers so we can have more to discus and speculate.

I really wish they would. Right now I focus on the graphics because that's all they've given me (which, given the short dev time and more open world, has of course not been favorable for LR). They've done jack and shit to explain how this game really works.

For all my negativity, I honestly do come into these threads hoping to be impressed. The concepts and ideas (gameplay and otherwise... though the execution of everything has been lacking in my opinion) of the entire Lightning Saga are, at the very least, interesting. But instead of exploring these interesting concepts... we get a "cinematic" trailer that only tell us a tiny bit more than we knew before about the story with tidbits of gameplay. I'm still looking forward to these "complex AI routines". I'm still looking forward to the "special" missions that involve stealth elements. I'm still hoping to see some of those damn dungeons they keep talking about. I keep waiting for them to explain, clearly and concisely, how the timer system works. But no, we keep being told the same info over and over again in slightly different ways.

 

[Meccanical]

Did you just happen to reading the thread at this very moment or is there really some kind of groupie thing you guys have going? Be honest.

It was pure coincidence I promise.

I've been trying to avoid this thread and clicked on it by accident.

 

[MagiusNecros]

It was pure coincidence I promise.

I've been trying to avoid this thread and clicked on it by accident.

Like Lightning it seems we can't fight fate.

 

[PshycoNinja]

It was pure coincidence I promise.

I've been trying to avoid this thread and clicked on it by accident.

Like a moth to the flame. Lol.

 

[kevm3]

The lighting is so flat.

 

[Kagari]

How about this. If you don't like the game or don't plan on playing... why enter these threads? I dislike the XIII saga too but I'll play LR for review and be done with it. It's okay to be critical, but it's another to continue stirring up threads on the game for no reason. It's just really tiring.

 

[Meccanical]

Like Lightning it seems we can't fight fate.

Like a moth to the flame. Lol.

Yeah.

(._. )

I haven't even watched the trailer though, and I won't because I really don't want to.

 

[Shinta]

I say start with Final Fantasy X.
People like the battle system for that game, and I think it represents a mix of old and new as Square was at the peak of their power at that time while focusing on the modern cinematic approach.

Yeah, I'd agree with that. But since the HD release is coming out any minute, might as well start with XIII. XII HD will be fun as well if they ever make it, or I'd recommend just getting the PS2 version. X, XII and XIII will all be more welcoming to new, modern players in my opinion. The PS1 games are old, and slow. I love them, but I wouldn't recommend starting with it. Even Chrono Trigger feels more modern and timeless to me.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

The lighting is so flat.

Seems like upgrading to D wasn't enough!

*ba-dum-tish*

How about this. If you don't like the game or don't plan on playing... why enter these threads? I dislike the XIII saga too but I'll play LR for review and be done with it. It's okay to be critical, but it's another to continue stirring up threads on the game for no reason. It's just really tiring.

I'm interested in the game, and I'll buy it (cheap). Actually seems like it could be the best of the Lightning Saga (although we know it will have awful writing)

 

[Linkup]

The lighting system is a mess and makes the graphics look like a mess. I thought it would start looking more consistent by now.

 

[Kagari]

The lighting system is a mess and makes the graphics look like a mess. I thought it would start looking more consistent by now.

They can only work with the budget they have.

Seems like upgrading to D wasn't enough!

*ba-dum-tish*



I'm interested in the game, and I'll buy it (cheap). Actually seems lie it could be the best of the Lightning Saga (although we know it will have awful writing)

No doubt. Their reluctance to find a better writer is most unfortunate.

 

[Ganon Dragmire]

Keeping the same clothes on Sahz, Vanille and Fang in every single XIII game while redesigning other characters doesn't make much sense...

I agree. Snow has a look reflecting his current life and so should the others.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

They can only work with the budget they have.

And the engine they have.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

How about this. If you don't like the game or don't plan on playing... why enter these threads? I dislike the XIII saga too but I'll play LR for review and be done with it. It's okay to be critical, but it's another to continue stirring up threads on the game for no reason. It's just really tiring.

Wouldn't be here if I wasn't at least planning to get the game. But you're right, there is no need for me to state the same criticism in each thread.

 

[kayos90]

Seems like this game will have more amount of CG scenes but they will be shorter. At least... that's my guess.

 

[Kagari]

Wouldn't be here if I wasn't at least planning to get the game. But you're right, there is no need for me to state the same criticism in each thread.

Your criticisms are fine. I was more referring to the ones who come in these threads and argue for the sake of arguing, drive-by troll, etc.

 

[MagiusNecros]

How about this. If you don't like the game or don't plan on playing... why enter these threads? I dislike the XIII saga too but I'll play LR for review and be done with it. It's okay to be critical, but it's another to continue stirring up threads on the game for no reason. It's just really tiring.

Once I get a deconfirmation for GILGAMESH I'll leave in peace. And I'll have to get the game if he is confirmed. Not the GILGAMESH FAN KING for nothing.

For Excalibur!

 

[MechaX]

How about this. If you don't like the game or don't plan on playing... why enter these threads? I dislike the XIII saga too but I'll play LR for review and be done with it. It's okay to be critical, but it's another to continue stirring up threads on the game for no reason. It's just really tiring.

It certainly would be something for a FFXIII related topic to go beyond Groundhog Day in a sense. But the problem is that constructive criticism on this subject always, always gets swept up in this "fuck the haters" mentality in response, leading to the same course every FFXIII thread does.

 

[Meccanical]

No doubt. Their reluctance to find a better writer is most unfortunate.

People will buy and defend it anyway, why bother?

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

They have no incentive to improve.

 

[Jarlaxle]

XIII-2 wasn't poorly received... lots of reviewers even claimed it to be better than XIII. And it sold well.

I liked XIII-2 quite a bit more than XIII myself.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Once I get a deconfirmation for GILGAMESH I'll leave in peace. And I'll have to get the game if he is confirmed. Not the GILGAMESH FAN KING for nothing.

For Excalibur!

Forget LR and play XIV.

 

[ThinFinn]

Have always felt excited for this game, but as others like Schala have mentioned, the constant negative bickering between both camps, have made it a chore to browse FFXIII related threads in general.

The same posters have always made it a point to reiterated their views, and with each thread, become increasingly tired of justifying their opinions, leading to snarky posts instead of constructive discussion. A pity, really.

With that said, this trailer looks much better than previous ones, no?

Trilled to see how LR will warp up the trilogy.

Spoiler

Indeed, I'm genuinely interested in the story.

 

[Kagari]

It certainly would be something for a FFXIII related topic to go beyond Groundhog Day in a sense. But the problem is that constructive criticism on this subject always, always gets swept up in this "fuck the haters" mentality in response, leading to the same course every FFXIII thread does.

Yeah, that sort of mentality is a problem as well.

 

[Nesotenso]

What happened to versus ? Is that still on ?

edit : ok see that it is XV now

 

[Meccanical]

What happened to versus ? Is that still on ?

Versus is FFXV now bro.

Made a new game just like that.

 

[CrimsonCrescendo]

What happened to versus ? Is that still on ?

Became XV and had a huge E3 showing.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Forget LR and play XIV.

GILGAMESH ain't out yet. I have no incentive to play yet.

Spoiler

And it's an MMO. I'll likely not touch it

 

[Dark Schala]

from http://www.finalfantasy.net/

The Heartstealer outfit — a light and agile costume well suited to mobile attacks and evasion. Combine this garb with abilities involving movement for rapid and exciting action! Attacking motions will change depending on the weapon used. Armed with a rapier, Lightning attacks like a fast-moving fencer, with powerful thrusting strikes.

Thank you.

Actually, I think that's kind of a neat spin on the "costumes in video games" aspect. At least if every single costume has a different animation and speed associated with it so they're not all the same (so even the fast costumes have various speeds/equips), it might be worth doing the quests to look for 'em.

Really too bad the demo at GC is the same as the one at E3, because I would have liked to have seen other costume / weapon animations in relation to skill timing and attack chaining.

----

Truly, if you feel like antagonizing people and posturing, do it somewhere else like the community thread or make your own thread about the FF13 trilogy to state your position in the OP and let discussion happen from there (and bump it whenever new LR info comes out and you'd like to revive the argument since it happens per update), because I'd much rather focus on the new media the thread's subject is about as opposed to reading the same criticisms and defences I have for the past half-annum or so.

And in return, it would likely be best for people who do like the game and are looking forward to the game to just try not to either a: get baited by people who are clearly trolling them, or b: just stop thinking that every instance of actual constructive criticism is grounds for dubbing someone a "hater", when they're really expressing their genuine dislike or doubt about a gameplay/graphical area in question. It's something I didn't like last year, and it's not something I like now.

I don't lose my cool that often because it's better to keep level-headed/agree to disagree while still making your point as constructively and even-headed as possible, but this behaviour is truly something that has needed to be addressed for a while.

 

[Toth]

People will buy and defend it anyway, why bother?

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

They have no incentive to improve.

Have FFXIII supporters really praised Toriyama/ Watanabe's writing though? I think most people agree he isn't the greatest dialogue writer and is a victim of the tell-not-show writing philosophy.