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Link To The Past: Turok (PC) and UE3 engine.

My PC died and I need to take it for repairs. Damn, I wanted to play more Turok. I picked it up for 20 bucks at CircuitCity along with Rainbow Six Vegas, but so far, I'm playing more Turok. I wish I can still continue playing.

I love the out door environments and the natural surroundings. I'm tired of your typical space station/battlefield scenarios. Love the dinosaurs. The shooting isn't revolutionary, but it was solid fun. I love how the T.Rex is fast enough to chase you down if you let up for a second, but you can out run him if you don't look back. A very nice balance of speed on a massive creature who's speed is still being debated.

I have to wonder, who decided to release the demo based on the crappy cave section? I played it on the PS3 myself, and was unimpressed. Why not just do the first level? Imagine how bad Crysis would be if Crytek released a demo based on the level where you're floating inside the alien ship (UGH). The cave is no where near as bad, but definitely wasn't a shining example of the game.

UE3... can I ask what people were smoking when they did the graphics for the humans? Why is there a completely unrealistic glow around the people? The rim lighting is incredibly unrealistic and yet it only happens to the humans. The dinosaurs a lit nicely, though. Are those flashback with Kane recorded video footage? The lighting looks even worse and more pixelated like a low res movie instead of in-game models.

Hey Bish, I know you worked on the game. Care to give me a small forum interview? I just want to ask you some questions for fun. I'm sure others would find it enlightening as well. I'm curious about some of the more odd gameplay decisions and other weirdness I've noticed so far. It's not everyday I get to ask a developer what were they thinking.

How does the PC version look compared to the consoles? I'm running it on an 8800 GS at 720p. The frame rate is very satisfactory, but I didn't check the numbers.

Man, there are lots of Dromaesaurs on Turok. What are they, Achillobator? Too big to be a Deinonychus, too small to be Utahraptor. Then again, I think it's a bit too small for Achillobator as well. One of them spits poison? What the hell?

What the hell are the small blue dromaeosaurs? Troodons? The large eyes suggest Troodon, but the round head doesn't fit.

Slade knows what a Dilophosaurus is!? He doesn't look like the kind of guy who could identify one. Hell, I saw another site with screens of the Dilophosaur with a stupid caption claiming it's a made up dinosaur. Slade is smarter than he looks!

Ok, what were you guys thinking when you created the T.rex battle? Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun. It was exciting, but the way you "beat" the Rex left me speechless. At first, I couldn't beat the T.rex. I was completely out of ammo and had nothing but my knife left. Out of frustration, I went up and knife the bastard. You guys were expecting us to think: "Gee, a couple hundred thousand rounds of blazing photons couldn't take down a 6 ton animal, I'll bet walking right up to him with a knife that's smaller than its teeth outta do the trick." Naturally, it did the trick. It was a big WTF for me.

Oh yeah, did anyone at any point during the development phase ask this: "Why can't I kill most people with a single shot, but my knife/bow can cut through their high tech armor in a flash?" The only explanation I could think of is that all the weapons are electric based, and the suits are made of rubber.

Lurkers... what are they? Pretosuchus? Postosuchus? I know they're obviously exaggerated, but their running animation is very cool. Hard for me to imagine a sprawling animal to run like that.

Are some of the enemy appearances scripted? I could have sworn I searched the battered base (or whatever) pretty thoroughly, but I still got jumped by the dromaeosaurs.

I wasn't able to put the meat fountain thing to good use. Is it because I suck, or am I not far enough? Usually, I just end up wait for the dromaeosaur to bump into the soliders.

I hope the folks that got laid off decide to ban together and create another dinosaur based game. We could always use another sequel to Operation Genesis (or a spiritual sequel). I really liked Turok, and wish we could have gotten more.
 
Cow Mengde said:
I hope the folks that got laid off decide to ban together and create another dinosaur based game. We could always use another sequel to Operation Genesis (or a spiritual sequel). I really liked Turok, and wish we could have gotten more.

madness.gif


Ironic typo, all things considered.
 

gdt

Member
Just abbreviate Link to the Past.

I thought this thread was about A Link To The Past (Zelda) running on UE3.

grumble grumble
 

Xabora

Junior Member
Cow Mengde said:
UE3... can I ask what people were smoking when they did the graphics for the humans? Why is there a completely unrealistic glow around the people? The rim lighting is incredibly unrealistic and yet it only happens to the humans. The dinosaurs a lit nicely, though. Are those flashback with Kane recorded video footage? The lighting looks even worse and more pixelated like a low res movie instead of in-game models.
Under the engine thats called Emissive. (With Full Bright Texture effects on a shader)
Now ingame that normally happens when the lighting on a texture becomes rather bright and a bloom effect is rendered, it looks blocky in small numbers but in areas with a good bit; it can look rather good.
 

Darkpen

Banned
wait, is this the same person who always does "Link to the Past" for lttp threads, or is this someone else?

Cow Mengde said:
Ok, what were you guys thinking when you created the T.rex battle? Don't get me wrong, I had a lot of fun. It was exciting, but the way you "beat" the Rex left me speechless. At first, I couldn't beat the T.rex. I was completely out of ammo and had nothing but my knife left. Out of frustration, I went up and knife the bastard. You guys were expecting us to think: "Gee, a couple hundred thousand rounds of blazing photons couldn't take down a 6 ton animal, I'll bet walking right up to him with a knife that's smaller than its teeth outta do the trick." Naturally, it did the trick. It was a big WTF for me.
:lol :lol

wow? That's seriously how you beat it? Jeez.
 
Cow Mengde said:
Slade knows what a Dilophosaurus is!? He doesn't look like the kind of guy who could identify one. Hell, I saw another site with screens of the Dilophosaur with a stupid caption claiming it's a made up dinosaur. Slade is smarter than he looks!

The Dilophosaurus was in Jurassic Park, who doesn't know what one is? I'm sure that in the bald space marine future JP is still regarded as land mark moment in human history and is shown on TV every Christmas.
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Cow Mengde said:
I hope the folks that got laid off decide to ban together and create another dinosaur based game. We could always use another sequel to Operation Genesis (or a spiritual sequel). I really liked Turok, and wish we could have gotten more.

sorry about what happened to Propaganda Games but I want David Dienstbier "the father of turok games" ( he works at Secret Level studio IIRC ) to make new Turok game , or new game with killing dinosaurs n stuff .
 

Tron 2.0

Member
Sorry, is the thread title a joke or not?

And the new Turok game was dumb fun. And, yes, UE3 has always rendered humans with a soft-focus glow.
 

Aaron

Member
Darkpen said:
wow? That's seriously how you beat it? Jeez.
I shot twelve rockets directly into it's eye without causing a scratch, but the guy's fist smashes it no problem. Borders on the surreal.
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Xabora said:
Under the engine thats called Emissive. (With Full Bright Texture effects on a shader)
Now ingame that normally happens when the lighting on a texture becomes rather bright and a bloom effect is rendered, it looks blocky in small numbers but in areas with a good bit; it can look rather good.

Is that the same thing as Phong shading?
 

Apocryphon

Member
Videogame. Videogame. Videogame.

It doesn't have to be realistic...

Anyway, they're space dinosaurs, not earth dinosaurs! Accelerated evolution, different atmospheric conditions etc... blah blah blah... no wonder they aren't quite the same species that existed on Earth 65 million years ago :lol
 
Tron 2.0 said:
Sorry, is the thread title a joke or not?

And the new Turok game was dumb fun. And, yes, UE3 has always rendered humans with a soft-focus glow.
Lttp = Late to the party & Link to the past.

It's a joke \(^_^)/
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
The PC version is garbage next to the console versions (particularly the 360 version). I believe it was ported by a different company and it shows. First and foremost, the loading. The console versions used data streaming in order to eliminate mid-level loading screens. Once a new game had loaded, the game would play from beginning to end without any load screens (outside of the short screens that appear when you die). The PC version divided up the game into individual segments with load screens between them.

Furthermore, the lighting is very different and much uglier across the board and some of the post processing disappears at various points.

Considering its UE3 roots, it's surprising that the PC version would be inferior, but that's how it ended up.
 
dark10x said:
The PC version is garbage next to the console versions (particularly the 360 version). I believe it was ported by a different company and it shows. First and foremost, the loading. The console versions used data streaming in order to eliminate mid-level loading screens. Once a new game had loaded, the game would play from beginning to end without any load screens (outside of the short screens that appear when you die). The PC version divided up the game into individual segments with load screens between them.

Furthermore, the lighting is very different and much uglier across the board and some of the post processing disappears at various points.

Considering its UE3 roots, it's surprising that the PC version would be inferior, but that's how it ended up.

Thanks. I was curious how it stacks up visually. I'm surprised it's that bad. I only played the dark cave level demo on PS3, so it was kinda hard to compare you know.

Sorry, is the thread title a joke or not?

The title is a joke of course. I did it on purpose. If you think about it, it still kinda fits, though.

Anyway, I'm going to send a PM to bish in a few minutes. I'll post his answers here when I get them. I'll probably take some time to think up more interesting/better questions than just pure dino curiosity.
 

bengraven

Member
Cow Mengde said:
We could always use another sequel to Operation Genesis (or a spiritual sequel).

YES.

Seriously, yes.

Do I have to make an official JP: OG Appreciation Thread for this game to get a sequel?

(is that all it takes?)
 
Aaron said:
I shot twelve rockets directly into it's eye without causing a scratch, but the guy's fist smashes it no problem. Borders on the surreal.

I know. I was tossing grenades, firing rockets, shooting it in the mouth until I'm all out of ammo. When you're nearly out, he automatically pulls out the knife. I thought it was a glitch. Seriously, that knife is maybe 6 inches long. A T.rex has teeth up to 12 inches long.

bengraven said:
YES.

Seriously, yes.

Do I have to make an official JP: OG Appreciation Thread for this game to get a sequel?

(is that all it takes?)

Do I have to make an official JP: OG Appreciation Thread for this game to get a sequel?

Go ahead man! Do it!!! This game needs more love!
 

Xabora

Junior Member
TheExodu5 said:
Is that the same thing as Phong shading?
No, emessive is just a frame buffer effect.

Phong is a diffuse lighting technique on some polygons. (Its heavily used in Team Fortress 2)
_SHADING.GIF
 
I hope every lttp thread becomes a link to the past just to annoy certain users.

Internet is serious business.

I have to wonder, who decided to release the demo based on the crappy cave section? I played it on the PS3 myself, and was unimpressed.

Another case of a bad demo. I rented the game and while I didn't really enjoy it, the demo was way below what it could have been. Kind of like the Simpson's game and their demo. A boss fight? Really? You couldn't have put in something better? :lol
 
dark10x said:
The PC version is garbage next to the console versions (particularly the 360 version). I believe it was ported by a different company and it shows. First and foremost, the loading. The console versions used data streaming in order to eliminate mid-level loading screens. Once a new game had loaded, the game would play from beginning to end without any load screens (outside of the short screens that appear when you die). The PC version divided up the game into individual segments with load screens between them.

Furthermore, the lighting is very different and much uglier across the board and some of the post processing disappears at various points.

Considering its UE3 roots, it's surprising that the PC version would be inferior, but that's how it ended up.

Wow Dark, that bad huh? ...Thanks for your details though as I too was always curious about rebuying this on PC (sold of my 360 and turok awhile ago). Too bad it sounds like it turned out like poo

Maybe I'll just buy the PS3 version down the road ....wish they'd add Trophies or at least rumble though =/
 
Cow Mengde said:
Anyway, I'm going to send a PM to bish in a few minutes. I'll post his answers here when I get them. I'll probably take some time to think up more interesting/better questions than just pure dino curiosity.

Any update?
 

Davey Cakes

Member
I've never been big on lttp threads. It's annoying when it seems like every month someone new is "late to the party" with Twilight Princess or something.
 

SovanJedi

provides useful feedback
Wow, and I thought I was obsessed with dinosaurs.

I wouldn't get caught up with the creative licensing on the dinosaurs or you'd probably have blown a fuse after several decades of shows and games trying to convince young kids that Dimetrodon was a real dinosaur. The Tyrannosaurus is also way bigger than a real life one would've been too.

I always thought there could be some good bossfights involving herbivorous dinosaurs, like maybe being caught up between a pair of Alpha male Ankylosaurs fighting it out and smashing trees down and you have to dodge around them to continue on.
 
Yay, bish replied!

Thanks for answering the questions, man!

Here's the small informal interview I did over PM. I hope you guys enjoy.

1. Any chance you can tell me what was your involvement with Turok?

creature AI design, difficulty tuning, and a whack of other stuff

2. Who's bright idea was it to release a demo based on the dark cave level? I know some people complained about it being too dark, but I had no problem. Still, it was not the best choice for a demo IMO. Aren't you guys allowed to decided on what to show off?

yep, agreed. We wanted to show off the luring mechanic at the part of the game where you first get the shotgun flare, but in hindsight we should have started the player outside in the sunlight for the demo. Live and learn :)

3. Did anyone during development ever thought it was weird how you can take out some vicious creatures/armored human with a single knife/arrow while the gun take several shots to kill?

it's more about selling the primal nature of Turok's weapons, ie. the bow/arrow and knife. Gotta keep in mind balancing issues as well, plus it's really satisfying to pin a guy to a wall with an arrow or stab a raptor in the head with blood gushing everywhere.

4. Most of your dinosaurs are based on real creatures, but did you guys research the dinosaurs before putting them into the game? You guys have an accurately sized Dilophosaurus, but your dromaeosaurs are a little off. Too big to be a Deinonychus, too small to be Achillobator/Utahraptor.

tons of research went into the production, but what might look good in RL doesn't necessarily translate or fit into what's required for good gameplay design.

5. The Lurker: What are they? They look like Triassic basal archosaurs of some sort. I know they're exaggerated, but did you guys have an animal in mind when you designed it?

cross between an alligator, shark, raptor and guided missile. That was the concept description and that's what we came up with. That creature combined with the moving grass made for some of the scarier feedback we received on the game.

6. The T.rex battle was great, but it was also weird. I'm guessing the guy who programmed it must be laughing his ass off at us cowards who were too afraid to go up and knife it. Did anyone ever think people would get stuck in that fight due to the logic defying victory condition?

it makes perfect sense, considering you can knife every other dinosaur in the game. Why not the T-Rex?

7. Did you guys have an idea for a dinosaur game and thought it would be good to attach the Turok name to it, or were you guys handed the task of making a new Turok game?

directive came from Disney

8. What are the odds of the former staff getting together to form their own team to make more dinosaur based games (that's just me dreaming)?

not good at this point, us core folks are scattered across different companies now. Shame, T2 was shaping up to be some badass shit. Such is life.

Dammit! Looks like the economy made the dinosaurs go extinct a second time.

Thanks again for answering my questions!
 
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