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[mintylurb]

Hard to say other than I know my TV isnt adjusted for any extra edge enhancement like a lot of people tend to do, I have my TV's sharpness setting at -10 (which was the resulted setting after calibration) and all edge enhancement related settings are disabled.

Yup, I also have all edge enhancement settings disabled as well. Oh well. As I said, it's still a pretty good game but just isn't worth $60..

 

[Loudninja]

Holy shit....demo is awesome....stayed away from bioshock talk, and didnt have a 360.....but DAYMMmm this shit was scary as hell.....came home all faded, waiting to play with all the talk about "game of the year this, and that," one of the few games that made my hairs stand up....playing with jvc nd 595's made it fuking scary....

day fuking 1.

Yeah I have to get it now, much better than I thought it would be

 

[2real4tv]

The results are clearly visible for any person who owns a CRT.

I have both ps3 and x360-currently broken and the only difference DMC4 I noticed was in the cutscences, I thought the ps3 version looked better. However Bioshock is a different story the Blur is killing the detail in the IQ. It almost looks like its outputting in SD.

 

[StuBurns]

And I'm saying there is either a crisp image or not. Bioshock can be blurrier than Uncharted, or Uncharted can be sharper than Bioshock. Bioshock can't only be blurrier or sharper than Bioshock. Uncharted is very sharp and is just as sharp as Bioshock 360. A game is either crisp or not crisp - if a game on one platform is just as crisp/crisper as on the other platform, then the former platform has the ability to produce that crisp image. Therefore the issue isn't hardware based - if it's anywhere, it is developer based.

There is no difference in the physicial output of the consoles.

Using exclusives makes ZERO sense. Do you not understand that?

We are talking about how sharp an image is in COMPARISON to other platform. You need to be able to compare the same game.

Maybe it's not the PS3, but with every single multiplatform game I've experienced this generation, this phenomena occurs.

So you're suggesting, either I'm lying, which is fair you don't know that I'm not, I'm not but if you think I would, you wouldn't believe my claim I'm not. Or that every developer has for some reason made the same mistake in every game. Which is totally impossible.

So we're back to the hardware. Maybe it's not the output, because you're right, the BluRay and HD vids play in pristine clarity. So maybe it's something else, the GPU, anything inside the machine that deals with the game and not the video playback.

You're claim that this isn't true, that they're all identical, it's bollocks. You must have serious eye problems.

 

[imperium]

My first impression after playing the demo was that it looked blurry and soft. I then forced 720p only and it looks a lot better IMO. Very little difference from what I remember the 360 version looking like. I had no complaints about the frame rate.

looks like a pretty competent port to me. Not prefect and probably not better than the 360 version but it's good. What more do some of you guys want?

 

[chubigans]

My first impression after playing the demo was that it looked blurry and soft. I then forced 720p only and it looks a lot better IMO.

I also just tried that and turned off the Horiz HOV lock off, and it's an amazing difference.

If they can patch the game to fix the blurry 1080i, I won't cancel my preorder.

 

[deepbrown]

I guess you're right. It is a shame though, I wish the board could discuss things like this without it falling into fanboy talk. And from what I've seen, mostly it starts with people saying to drop the conversation because of fanboys, not fanboys themselves.

I'm interested in this kind of thing. For example, I'm intrigued now. Is it the PS3 that is less crisp or is just a giant coincidence with unrelated developers? BluRays are very sharp, so is it the GPU or something? It being developers seems unlikely, but it's possible, and if it's the case why? Is Sony not supporting developers correctly? It's interesting don't you think?

There are sharp(er) games on the PS3. It's nothing to do with output or GPU. We've already explained both DMC4 and Bioshock - blur to enhance AA. And you probably don't calibrate your TV properly - because the 360 prefers a harsher/more contrasted look on default. It could be that the RSX can do more realistic lighting, but I doubt that's the difference in multiplatform games.

 

[StuBurns]

There are sharp(er) games on the PS3. It's nothing to do with output or GPU. We've already explained both DMC4 and Bioshock - blur to enhance AA. And you probably don't calibrate your TV properly - because the 360 prefers a harsher/more contrasted look on default. It could be that the RSX can do more realistic lighting, but I doubt that's the difference in multiplatform games.

Name a single game that is sharper on PS3 then 360 (must be multiplatform of course), and provide screenshots. Direct-feed, showing some sort of HUD detail that shows the platform. And provide links to an official source so I know they aren't fixed.

I bet you can't find a single example.

 

[deepbrown]

Using exclusives makes ZERO sense. Do you not understand that?

We are talking about how sharp an image is in COMPARISON to other platform. You need to be able to compare the same game.

Maybe it's not the PS3, but with every single multiplatform game I've experienced this generation, this phenomena occurs.

So you're suggesting, either I'm lying, which is fair you don't know that I'm not, I'm not but if you think I would, you wouldn't believe my claim I'm not. Or that every developer has for some reason made the same mistake in every game. Which is totally impossible.

So we're back to the hardware. Maybe it's not the output, because you're right, the BluRay and HD vids play in pristine clarity. So maybe it's something else, the GPU, anything inside the machine that deals with the game and not the video playback.

You're claim that this isn't true, that they're all identical, it's bollocks. You must have serious eye problems.

No. The game does not have to be the same. Red is Red no matter what game it's in. How Red is that colour in that game? Crispness is Crisp no matter what game it's in. You can check the resolution of a game by counting the pixels, you can see how sharp a game is by looking at it. It's not an output problem. End of. And if you are experiencing it in every multiplatform game - it's very simple. You have not calibrated your TV seperately for each console. The PS3 outputs a lighter image (less contrast) at default. Turn on RGB Full (if it's supported) and up the contrast. I also suggest you down the contrast for your 360 because it can have a tendency to look over-sharp. This was the decision of both Sony and Microsoft how they wanted the console to look on default. I tend to disagree with them both.

 

[deepbrown]

Name a single game that is sharper on PS3 then 360 (must be multiplatform of course), and provide screenshots. Direct-feed, showing some sort of HUD detail that shows the platform. And provide links to an official source so I know they aren't fixed.

I bet you can't find a single example.

If I had the time to do so, could trust internet images, and could find HD ones of comparble places in the game, I would. Seriosuly in most cases you are not talking about crispness, you're talking about sharpness (can be changed on TV) and contrast (can be changed on TV). Nothing to do with graphics or hardware - that is unless the multiplatform game is of a lower resolution on the PS3 - which is the case with GTA4.

 

[Gattsu25]

Name a single game that is sharper on PS3 then 360 (must be multiplatform of course), and provide screenshots. Direct-feed, showing some sort of HUD detail that shows the platform. And provide links to an official source so I know they aren't fixed.

I bet you can't find a single example.

This reminds me of a debate I had when I was in elementary school. Someone was arguing that the Game Gear was able to provide better colors than the Lynx. I requested that the person stand on their left leg while holding the lynx up to their right eye while i held the Game Gear up to his left eye and stood on m right leg. I then demanded that he also provide a nationally published newspaper article to support his claim as well as a written and signed reference, from someone trusted in the gaming industry, as to the breadth of videogame understanding of the author. He then needed to provide undoctored photographic evidence to support his claims with the two handhelds in a variety of lighting conditions and with the camera at a variety of angles.

Or maybe not, because I realized that I was a bit of a dick, and despite feeling that the debate warranted such actions, it really meant fuck all in the long run and no one would care enough to actually go through the effort to try to convince a knuckle-headed idiot that they could be wrong.

 

[Kagari]

The demo was from an old build... right?

 

[StuBurns]

This reminds me of a debate I had when I was in elementary school. Someone was arguing that the Game Gear was able to provide better colors than the Lynx. I requested that the person stand on their left leg while holding the lynx up to their right eye while i held the Game Gear up to his left eye and stood on m right leg. I then demanded that he also provide a nationally published newspaper article to support his claim as well as a written and signed reference, from someone trusted in the gaming industry, as to the breadth of videogame understanding of the author. He then needed to provide undoctored photographic evidence to support his claims with the two handhelds in a variety of lighting conditions and with the camera at a variety of angles.

Or maybe not, because I realized that I was a bit of a dick, and despite feeling that the debate warranted such actions, it really meant fuck all in the long run and no one would care enough to actually go through the effort to try to convince a knuckle-headed idiot that they could be wrong.

Maybe it is being a dick, but isn't it the basis of all arguments? Evidence. If you say something that is in contradiction to what has already been shown in this thread, then you should provide evidence that you're correct. Beyond just claiming it.

Nothing is harder to bare then a good example.
DMC4 and BioShock, are good examples. And he just lied around it, I said DMC4 looked sharper, he said it didn't, then after screenshots he changed his opinion, then argued it's not noticeable when in motion. It is, that's how I noticed it, I don't spend much time pressing the still button on my tv.

 

[deepbrown]

Maybe it is being a dick, but isn't it the basis of all arguments? Evidence. If you say something that is in contradiction to what has already been shown in this thread, then you should provide evidence that you're correct. Beyond just claiming it.

We know the problem with the evidence in the thread. There is blur applied to create fake AA. We know the case with GTA4, it's a lower resolution. We know there are sharp(er) games on the PS3. Conclusion? The problem is software/developer based, or different TV callibration per console, and not hardware output.

I want you to stop worrying about hardware output. I want you to look for the different software reasons for each game.

 

[StuBurns]

We know the problem with the evidence in the thread. There is blur applied to create fake AA. We know the case with GTA4, it's a lower resolution. We know there are sharp(er) games on the PS3. Conclusion? The problem is software/developer based, or different TV callibration per console, and not hardware output.

I want you to stop worrying about hardware output. I want you to look for the different software reasons for each game.

I just find it hard to believe that in every case it is the developer.
Does that not seem a stretch? Isn't it much simpler for it to be the hardware?

 

[chubigans]

Name a single game that is sharper on PS3 then 360 (must be multiplatform of course), and provide screenshots. Direct-feed, showing some sort of HUD detail that shows the platform. And provide links to an official source so I know they aren't fixed.

I bet you can't find a single example.

Here we are...some screens from Overlord, on the 360 and PS3.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/overlord/images.html

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/...convert&om_clk=gsimage&tag=images;header;more

I'm sure I'll find more in a bit.

 

[2real4tv]

Maybe it is being a dick, but isn't it the basis of all arguments? Evidence. If you say something that is in contradiction to what has already been shown in this thread, then you should provide evidence that you're correct. Beyond just claiming it.

Nothing is harder to bare then a good example.
DMC4 and BioShock, are good examples. And he just lied around it, I said DMC4 looked sharper, he said it didn't, then after screenshots he changed his opinion, then argued it's not noticeable when in motion. It is, that's how I noticed it, I don't spend much time pressing the still button on my tv.

The difference in DMC4 is so negligible I don' know why you mention it, that is one of the better multiplatform games.

 

[CoG]

Pardon? I don't think the 360 outputs a sharper image generally. That is made up nonsense. I wonder. Have you played Uncharted, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet and Clank, GT5P, WipEout HD... I could go on.

The 360 does output a sharper image. It's an attribute of the ATI hardware. It has nothing to do with PS3 games looking "blurry" it's just the "ATI look". I've had both brands of card in my PC and the 360 definitely has that ATI look and the PS3 has the Nvidia look. That's how people like Quaz can look at one frame and tell what console it's from, the AA algorithm, etc.

I find the 360 to look overly harsh myself, but that's probably because I've been using Nvidia cards since the Geforce2.

 

[deepbrown]

I just find it hard to believe that in every case it is the developer.
Does that not seem a stretch? Isn't it much simpler for it to be the hardware?

There are hardware differences which means it's not simple to port from the 360/PC to the PS3 - meaning you could have differences. You might find a "crisp" difference here - I don't think there is on rule.

Oh...here's an idea. I could post images of Burnout. The difference? PS3 was the lead platform. This might be the answer you're looking for.

 

[deepbrown]

The 360 does output a sharper image. It's an attribute of the ATI hardware. It has nothing to do with PS3 games looking "blurry" it's just the "ATI look". I've had both brands of card in my PC and the 360 definitely has that ATI look and the PS3 has the Nvidia look. That's how people like Quaz can look at one frame and tell what console it's from, the AA algorithm, etc.

I find the 360 to look overly harsh myself, but that's probably because I've been using Nvidia cards since the Geforce2.

Higher contrast.

 

[StuBurns]

There are hardware differences which means it's not simple to port from the 360/PC to the PS3 - meaning you could have differences. You might find a "crisp" difference here - I don't think there is.

Oh...here's an idea. I could post images of Burnout. The difference? PS3 was the lead platform. This might be the answer you're looking for.

Burnout still doesn't look sharper to me. Yes it's the better version, it's smoother, some textures are nicer. But the same thing applies, it still looks sharper. Find pics and see for yourself.

 

[ScissorHands]

So I just played the demo again, and with the expection of the horrible textures on the big daddy, everything else looks like the 360 version.

 

[JB1981]

Here we are...some screens from Overlord, on the 360 and PS3.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/overlord/images.html

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/...convert&om_clk=gsimage&tag=images;header;more

I'm sure I'll find more in a bit.

:lol
somehow I don't think that's the kind of cripsness/sharpness/better IQ he was talking about

 

[StuBurns]

:lol
somehow I don't think that's the kind of cripsness/sharpness/better IQ he was talking about

Indeed.

 

[dejay]

:lol
somehow I don't think that's the kind of cripsness/sharpness/better IQ he was talking about

The jaggies - they cut!

 

[Xyphie]

Here we are...some screens from Overlord, on the 360 and PS3.

Is your idea of "sharper" lack of AA?

 

[chubigans]

:lol
somehow I don't think that's the kind of cripsness/sharpness/better IQ he was talking about

I realize that, it's just hard as hell to find a game not lacking AA from a port. :lol

 

[WickedLaharl]

Spoiler

goddamn the denial itt is downright sad.

 

[deepbrown]

Spoiler

goddamn the denial itt is downright sad.

I don't believe there's been any denial of Bioshock PS3's blurriness for over half a page.

 

[shpankey]

sorry, i own both systems and generally download demos of both versions, and no, it's not bollocks. It's something that can't be questioned by anyone who has seen both versions of the game running on the same tv, the difference is impossible to miss.

you're right. all i have now is a ps3 (gave up on 360 after 3 consecutive failures) and it was one of the first things i noticed. immediately. i love my ps3 though, so i don't know why anyone even bothers denying it. it's not like it's THAT big of a deal. i enjoy the games on it just as much. but it IS there.

 

[deepbrown]

you're right. all i have now is a ps3 (gave up on 360 after 3 consecutive failures) and it was one of the first things i noticed. immediately. i love my ps3 though, so i don't know why anyone even bothers denying it. it's not like it's THAT big of a deal. i enjoy the games on it just as much. but it IS there.

He was talking about DMC4.

 

[shpankey]

i noticed it with NHL 08 too.

 

[McLovin]

... I hate how threads like this always boil down to OMG it was better on the 360 or omg the PS3 can do it better... honestly its not that important. Its a port.. a PORT. If you don't have a 360 or good PC then get it.. its not like blurry ground textures makes the game unplayable.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

... I hate how threads like this always boil down to OMG it was better on the 360 or omg the PS3 can do it better... honestly its not that important. Its a port.. a PORT. If you don't have a 360 or good PC then get it.. its not like blurry ground textures makes the game unplayable.

This is always what I try to convey. It doesn't make the game less playable or enjoyable.

 

[jax (old)]

I finished this on xbox360 ages ago.

Only thing I want to say here is:






fuck this stupid graphics debate. It belongs in its own thread.

+

BUY THIS MOTHERFUCKING AAA+ GAME.

 

[StuBurns]

This is always what I try to convey. It doesn't make the game less playable or enjoyable.

But no one is claiming it does are they?

I said that the fact that it appears somewhat 'drier' on the PS3, and the drippy wet looking textures are important in conveying the tone as it did in the original. But the difference certainly isn't enough to make a difference.

But what is wrong with the discussion itself? I don't understand that idea of 'it makes no difference, so don't discuss it', it's as bad as not discussing something because it's theoretical, or sophomoric.

It's not being picky, if it isn't vastly changing your opinion. The discussion itself isn't detrimental in anyway I can see.

 

[MMaRsu]

Jesus I came into this thread expecting people talking about how they loved the demo instead I walk in on system/graphics warz.

Take that shit to gamefaqs :\

 

[Freedom = $1.05]

My friend lent me his copy for the 360 last year and loved it. If the game is 95% of the 360 version was then I'll still get it. Might wait for a price drop, though. $60 is too much to ask for a +1 year old game.

 

[Raistlin]

Indeed I have, I own them all except R&C, however, those are all exclusive, so you can't compare them with a 360 version.

Every time a multiplatform game comes out we go thru this, and every time I see this comparison pics, and every time the 360 version looks crisper.

If the game is running at the same res, has the same effects, same texture res, etc ... it will not look 'crisper' on the 360.


What you may however be seeing, is that the 360 does not have a standard output curve for for contrast, color saturation, etc. By default, they are jacked pretty high. That is something that can be calibrated on your TV however.

Sir, how can you possibly directly compare the two systems retrospective 'crispness' if they both aren't outputting the same game? It's a relative comparison.

All the multiplaftform games I've played are 'crisper' on 360 then PS3. DMC4, GTA4, COD4, Skate, Assassin's Creed, and a few others I'm missing. It could be a big coincidence, it could be just the nature of the video output of the PS3. I don't know, but that's been my experience with the consoles so far. And BioShock goes no way to disprove it.

I'm guessing it is all coincidence. The reasons for the above games is not due to the nature of the output.

DMC4 uses temporal motion blur (on purpose) on the PS3 version

GTA4 is running at a lower res

COD4 has lower res textures

Not sure about Sake and Assassin's Creed, but you get the picture.

This is very similar to what I see on my set. My question is, how do you guys get such great pics of your tv screens? I have a pretty good digital camera and a great tv, I want some tips for taking good off-screen photos.

One of the most important things is to have a steady surface to set the camera on ... preferably a stand.

For most cameras, any shaking is going to cause blurring, and even if its subtle, its pretty much the kiss of death for TV pics.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

But no one is claiming it does are they?

I said that the fact that it appears somewhat 'drier' on the PS3, and the drippy wet looking textures are important in conveying the tone as it did in the original. But the difference certainly isn't enough to make a difference.

But what is wrong with the discussion itself? I don't understand that idea of 'it makes no difference, so don't discuss it', it's as bad as not discussing something because it's theoretical, or sophomoric.

It's not being picky, if it isn't vastly changing your opinion. The discussion itself isn't detrimental in anyway I can see.

I'm over it. It gets on my nerves when it comes up though. You have valid points, no doubt.

 

[btkadams]

just played the demo, loved it! im definitely picking this up. when is it out again?

 

[LiquidMetal14]

just played the demo, loved it! im definitely picking this up. when is it out again?

21st ship date. Don't know if it's street dated. Also reading this thread is giving me the urge to play this more. A little over 2 weeks left

 

[btkadams]

21st ship date. Don't know if it's street dated. Also reading this thread is giving me the urge to play this more. A little over 2 weeks left

ya im really not phased by all the bitching about how it looks. i dont care about the 360 version ill never get to play it. all i care about is that the ps3 version looks good and from what i played in the demo it looks great. so it comes out the week of littlebigplanet? wooo good gaming week

 

[Raistlin]

Well I just got done comparing 360 / PS3 versions, I made sure my TV was set identical between the two and both consoles are using HDMI, I adjusted the brightness on each version for best results using Bioshocks built in adjustment.

Unfortuantely my camera doesnt capture gamma / color correctly vs. what it looks like in person but you can still get an idea of the sharpness differances.

I was kinda surprised how much crisper 360's looks, especially when you first get out of the water and walk up the stairs, the bricks really look like they're wet on 360's while on PS3 it makes it look like my TV is a bit out of focus, anyhow here's what I got:

360:

PS3 (keep in mind I had the camera zoomed in on these shots)

TV is a 50" Pioneer Kuro Plasma.

Out of curiosity, is your TV 1080p? And if so, are you using the PS3 to upscale, your TV?


I'm just wondering, because it doesn't appear as blurry on my TV (though I don't have a 360 here to directly compare).

 

[DevilWillcry]

Wow I see this thread is a cluster fuck. I thought it was a nice port. Probably going to pick it up. I thought it looked the same as the 360 version, but then I was playing in 720P, you know, the native resolution of like every next-gen game. Yeah, I think people are blowing the comparisons up because this game was one of the 360's sacred cows and now it's a multiplatform game that looks the same on PS3. Well things get ported folks, end of story. I have one less reason to look at buying a 360 and I'm grateful for the PS3 port, I'm glad it turned out as well as it did.

 

[Synless]

21st ship date. Don't know if it's street dated. Also reading this thread is giving me the urge to play this more. A little over 2 weeks left

Did you check your PSN mailbox today liquid?

 

[Loudninja]

The hacking mini game is hard, I just pay the damn things off.

 

[Calcaneus]

Played the demo earier today, and it was pretty amazing. I was always interested in Bioshock, I was extremely close to getting a 360 for it and Halo 3, but things got in the way.

Anyways, it looked good to me, there were some wierd spots but it seems like they fixed it up for the final version. All the arguing in this thread though, it seems less about comparing details to figure out which would be the "optimal" version, but the usual console wars with screenshot comparisons of totally unrelated games.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Did you check your PSN mailbox today liquid?

No, gonna be on within a half hour though. What you got? PM me here for now if you want.

And ditto Calcaneus

 

[WickedLaharl]

Wow I see this thread is a cluster fuck. I thought it was a nice port. Probably going to pick it up. I thought it looked the same as the 360 version, but then I was playing in 720P, you know, the native resolution of like every next-gen game. Yeah, I think people are blowing the comparisons up because this game was one of the 360's sacred cows and now it's a multiplatform game that looks the same on PS3. Well things get ported folks, end of story. I have one less reason to look at buying a 360 and I'm grateful for the PS3 port, I'm glad it turned out as well as it did.

are you blind, ignorant, or in denial?

it doesn't look the same as the 360 version. period. however you can choose to believe that 360 owners are upset that the ps3 is getting a port of a game that they played well over a year ago if that makes this inferior port easier to swallow.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20081004#1223141168

blown out of proportion my ass.