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Looks like Bioshock demo is out on PSN EU
- Thread starter Lord Error
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Synless
Member
I fucking told you guys that the textures sucked ass in this port, and the exact example I used was pixalated textures and big daddy being a prime example. This is a horrible shitty demo. I really hope it is an old build because the game looking and playing like it does a whole year later is ridiculous.
Automatisch
Member
Umm, it's probably just a mishap. Everything else looks fine, and that Big Daddy texture is really the only super-bad one.Synless said:
They weren't commenting on the framerate. You said "textures sucked ass in this port", I'm just saying, that's hardly a fair comment, I would say at least 95% of the texture and model work are the same.Synless said:
And the downed Big Daddy is the same model, there are different Big Daddy 'models', but that's the same one.
And the framerate is comparable on my machine, I've had no sound or graphical bugs either, as many people have. So I don't know how bad this things are for some people. But I'm sure 2K would have been aware of issues like that yeah. They just haven't addressed them yet.
Automatisch
Member
Yeah, and I think the 360 version had a few areas like that when I played through it.dhelfric said:
Synless
Member
I think of it this way, if it has studdering in this area of the game what about the more intensive areas later on? I mean there really is no excuse....NONE for a year old port to have framerate issues at all. I don't care if there minimal or not. I have this game for the PC, and wanted to buy this for the ps3. Seeing as they are charging full price for the game and it having a few issues it's not cool, I can't see how people couldn't be mad about it. Little issues or not it could be better and you all know it.dhelfric said:
nelsonroyale
Member
dynamitejim said:
that is terrible...
Is the bottom the 360 version or the PC? Because it looks much nicer on my laptop than that
We have Mr.yoda's comparison again.
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20081004#1223141168
Looks like lower texture quality for PS3 version again,360 version is much sharper.
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20081004#1223141168
Looks like lower texture quality for PS3 version again,360 version is much sharper.
You said it,Synless said:
"I mean there really is no excuse....NONE for a year old port to have framerate issues at all."
The original lead SKU, the 360 version, also had some framerate issues, so you want the PS3 version to be superior.
Burnout is better on PS3, and DMC is better on 360. Neither count.
That is a good point, it could be pretty brutal when you get to Arcadia. But in 2K's defense, UE3 on PS3 has never stood up to the 360 version for some reason. I did expect it to be a perfect port, and I am a little concerned based on other peoples experience of the demo. But I'm still hoping the gold build is identical to the 360 retail version.Synless said:
And just to add, in Europe at least, this isn't a full priced product. Of course the 360 version is cheap now anyway.
Just got around to playing the demo. I originally played the PC version cranked up graphically. This does not look as good but looks and plays as well as I remember the 360 demo. There's some frame drops in random areas but overall consistently 30 fps. I don't think its a lower native resolution than 720p, PS3 games always look a tad softer than 360 games due to the Nvidia hardware.
Is the Big Daddy texture something that could be fixed in a post-release patch? The people at the 2K thread won't outright say it, but they do say they're "working on [the problem]," and if the game has already gone gold the only way to fix things would be a patch, correct?
Could a better Big Daddy texture be patched in?
Could a better Big Daddy texture be patched in?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I'll admit that I didn't pay that much attention, but I think that dead Big Daddy is the only one that has this pixelatted texture problem. I don't think actual 'working' enemies have that problem at all. I think the rest of the textures are actually the same as the X360 version, and that guy from the dev team even said so.Neiteio said:
There's definitely some kind of blur filter going on though, as can be easily seen on screens from that Japanese website linked above. It reduces edge aliasing, but makes everything else look softer as well.
For sure. Looks like they not only used some low res texture there (or didn't apply the layer of detailed texture) but they didn't even enable the texture filtering on that object. They could at the very least set that flag so that it doesn't look so pixellated.Neiteio said:
Okay, impressions after a quick play through (note, I haven't played the game prior):
Gameplay:
Pretty enjoyable so far. Admittedly, I was kind of expecting it to be a bit more adventure-like, because so far, the game seems quite linear and basically 'just a shooter'. I wanted to talk to some of the people early on, but it became clear pretty quickly that you need to destroy everything. The amount of combat options that can be used later though leads me to believe the game will be pretty entertaining and quite tactical in nature; I assume that makes up for it being pretty linear.
Anyway, it is what it is. Control seems pretty good, even when using the stick
, and once you get used to the triggers, works well. I'm admittedly used to using R1/L1 as triggers, so I had a bit of a mental block to get past, but once you're used to it, it works fine. The 'crappy PS3 triggers' themselves are responsive in this case, if you're okay with the placement.
Graphics:
First off, the blurring. To me, it looks fine. Considering the setting and style, I don't mind it at all - if anything, its nicely atmospheric - and to be honest, there does not seem to be any lack of detail in my eyes. I'm using forced 720p, but my scaling is handled via an external scaler (not my TV), and it tends to produce a sharper image than most TV's will anyway.
What is apparent in terms of IQ though is the shimmering. Technically, its really no worse than most games without AA, but certain sections of the game (due to the art) make it pretty noticeable. For example, the section where you first do the fly/swim through. The high contrast from lights in the windows and neon signs yields some pretty crappy looking alias-shimmering. As I stated, I haven't played other versions, but I assume this is just as much of an issue in the 360 rev.
Speaking of the fly/swim through, holy crap, the framerate is pretty shit there. Someone mentioned how this takes a lot away from the opening, because that part is such an important cinemagraphic moment in the game. Really? While I'll be first to admit the framerate is abysmal in that section, I find it hard to believe that's a great cinemagraphic moment in the game. The graphics are pretty bad in general there imo; artistically and technically. The giant statues, etc. ... it really doesn't look pretty at all to me, regardless of framerate issues.
Once you start the game proper though, I find it quite good looking overall. Some nice shader effects, and in general, the texture quality looks more than serviceable to me. Obviously I can't compare to the 360 version, but I didn't really see much that stood out as horrible looking, and most of the things that needed it (signs, floors, cushions, etc.) where all pretty detailed.
On a side note, I'm not sure what big daddy issue everyone is talking about, I didn't really get close to one to notice? I ended up getting locked in a section, where the main dude said he was trying to hack me out ... a film strip played ... and then some baddies where trying to bust in ... fade to black.
Also in the game proper, the framerate is certainly playable; didn't see any areas like the main fly/swim through. It is however, hardly stable. The game is running under 30fps most of the time. Simply walk or rotate very slowly, and you'll see there are stutters under practically any load. That said, when normally running and gunning, its not particularly distracting, even if it is suboptimal. For the most part it is consistently 25-30fps, so even though its unstable, it doesn't standout.
Sound:
In general, quite good, and lots of speech. However, I did find some of the speech a bit hard to understand, which seems weird, as most of the time its way louder than seems natural in the mix. Does everyone have a megaphone? Moving some of the audio sliders didn't help all that much for clarity. Maybe I'm going deaf.
Other than some suspect mixing and dialog intelligibility, its seems to be a really atmospheric use of sound. Definitely adds to the creepiness factor, which the game overall really has in spades (even if a bit ham-fisted)
Overall:
If this is representative of the overall game, I really don't see a reason for people canceling preorders if they don't have means to play it elsewhere. Sure, its not as stable as it should be (and there are some obvious bugs that I don't know are in the other versions - in the beginning when swimming, look down. Nice clipping. How do they miss that?), but the framerate is easily steady enough to be playable, and in most situations isn't particularly noticeable unless you are looking for it.
Now the above, that is my overall impression based on the actual demo gameplay ... I do have some concerns however. At the end of the demo, it went into a cinema showing later levels and more advanced weapons and powers. What concerns me, is the graphics took a huge nosedive at that point. First off, it looked blurry as hell. I don't understand, because it didn't look that way while playing from what I could tell (I can't imagine I was so immersed that I missed it). So originally I thought maybe it was video. However, there was A LOT of slowdown and massive tearing during most of the scenes (which where admittedly quite intensive). That leads me to believe it wasn't video ... or at least it was video of actual gameplay - which would explain the blurriness - but really gives me pause on how the engine is going to handle later areas.
Its very possible it was just something hacked together for the demo, but just in case, I think I'm going to wait for some reviews and impressions.
Gameplay:
Pretty enjoyable so far. Admittedly, I was kind of expecting it to be a bit more adventure-like, because so far, the game seems quite linear and basically 'just a shooter'. I wanted to talk to some of the people early on, but it became clear pretty quickly that you need to destroy everything. The amount of combat options that can be used later though leads me to believe the game will be pretty entertaining and quite tactical in nature; I assume that makes up for it being pretty linear.
Anyway, it is what it is. Control seems pretty good, even when using the stick
, and once you get used to the triggers, works well. I'm admittedly used to using R1/L1 as triggers, so I had a bit of a mental block to get past, but once you're used to it, it works fine. The 'crappy PS3 triggers' themselves are responsive in this case, if you're okay with the placement.Graphics:
First off, the blurring. To me, it looks fine. Considering the setting and style, I don't mind it at all - if anything, its nicely atmospheric - and to be honest, there does not seem to be any lack of detail in my eyes. I'm using forced 720p, but my scaling is handled via an external scaler (not my TV), and it tends to produce a sharper image than most TV's will anyway.
What is apparent in terms of IQ though is the shimmering. Technically, its really no worse than most games without AA, but certain sections of the game (due to the art) make it pretty noticeable. For example, the section where you first do the fly/swim through. The high contrast from lights in the windows and neon signs yields some pretty crappy looking alias-shimmering. As I stated, I haven't played other versions, but I assume this is just as much of an issue in the 360 rev.
Speaking of the fly/swim through, holy crap, the framerate is pretty shit there. Someone mentioned how this takes a lot away from the opening, because that part is such an important cinemagraphic moment in the game. Really? While I'll be first to admit the framerate is abysmal in that section, I find it hard to believe that's a great cinemagraphic moment in the game. The graphics are pretty bad in general there imo; artistically and technically. The giant statues, etc. ... it really doesn't look pretty at all to me, regardless of framerate issues.
Once you start the game proper though, I find it quite good looking overall. Some nice shader effects, and in general, the texture quality looks more than serviceable to me. Obviously I can't compare to the 360 version, but I didn't really see much that stood out as horrible looking, and most of the things that needed it (signs, floors, cushions, etc.) where all pretty detailed.
On a side note, I'm not sure what big daddy issue everyone is talking about, I didn't really get close to one to notice? I ended up getting locked in a section, where the main dude said he was trying to hack me out ... a film strip played ... and then some baddies where trying to bust in ... fade to black.
Also in the game proper, the framerate is certainly playable; didn't see any areas like the main fly/swim through. It is however, hardly stable. The game is running under 30fps most of the time. Simply walk or rotate very slowly, and you'll see there are stutters under practically any load. That said, when normally running and gunning, its not particularly distracting, even if it is suboptimal. For the most part it is consistently 25-30fps, so even though its unstable, it doesn't standout.
Sound:
In general, quite good, and lots of speech. However, I did find some of the speech a bit hard to understand, which seems weird, as most of the time its way louder than seems natural in the mix. Does everyone have a megaphone? Moving some of the audio sliders didn't help all that much for clarity. Maybe I'm going deaf.
Other than some suspect mixing and dialog intelligibility, its seems to be a really atmospheric use of sound. Definitely adds to the creepiness factor, which the game overall really has in spades (even if a bit ham-fisted)
Overall:
If this is representative of the overall game, I really don't see a reason for people canceling preorders if they don't have means to play it elsewhere. Sure, its not as stable as it should be (and there are some obvious bugs that I don't know are in the other versions - in the beginning when swimming, look down. Nice clipping. How do they miss that?), but the framerate is easily steady enough to be playable, and in most situations isn't particularly noticeable unless you are looking for it.
Now the above, that is my overall impression based on the actual demo gameplay ... I do have some concerns however. At the end of the demo, it went into a cinema showing later levels and more advanced weapons and powers. What concerns me, is the graphics took a huge nosedive at that point. First off, it looked blurry as hell. I don't understand, because it didn't look that way while playing from what I could tell (I can't imagine I was so immersed that I missed it). So originally I thought maybe it was video. However, there was A LOT of slowdown and massive tearing during most of the scenes (which where admittedly quite intensive). That leads me to believe it wasn't video ... or at least it was video of actual gameplay - which would explain the blurriness - but really gives me pause on how the engine is going to handle later areas.
Its very possible it was just something hacked together for the demo, but just in case, I think I'm going to wait for some reviews and impressions.
Nizz
Member
Thank god you brought up the issue with the triggers to 2k. I'm not expecting miracles, but it would be nice if they could patch an option to at least swap R2/L2 with R1/L1. Kind of crazy that bad textures on the Big Daddy got away from them. That sounds..... I don't know. Like I've said before, it's 2008 already. The days of bad ports should be behind us already. Yet again though, we're supposed to just "settle" for whatever we get...Neiteio said:
I liked the demo, and I definitely plan on picking this up sooner or later. I'll wait until post-retail to hear some in-depth comparisons, but I'll definitely pick it up. I really enjoyed the demo, the presentation was great, and felt very half-life-y. What I didn't like was the blur to hide the frame rate, like they do in orange box. I don't appreciate that at all.
Blur filter in action! (open up the pics, full-size, in separate tabs ... and switch back and forth).
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20081004#1223141168
PS3 definitely loses some fine detail, however, it looks more natural in at least some of the situations. For example, the highlights on the ground-cobbles (2nd set of pics) look overly pixelated in the 360 rev. In others, the detail seems too ... detailed, given some of the distances we're talking about here.
To me, the perfect version would look like the 360 in the foreground, and then transition to the PS3 version further away
I would suspect that the 360 version's shimmering is a bit more obvious at times? Though I can't imagine its much of an improvement in the PS3 rev.
BTW - what's with the bloom for the neon signs in the PS3 rev?
http://d.hatena.ne.jp/yoda-dip-jp/20081004#1223141168
PS3 definitely loses some fine detail, however, it looks more natural in at least some of the situations. For example, the highlights on the ground-cobbles (2nd set of pics) look overly pixelated in the 360 rev. In others, the detail seems too ... detailed, given some of the distances we're talking about here.
To me, the perfect version would look like the 360 in the foreground, and then transition to the PS3 version further away
I would suspect that the 360 version's shimmering is a bit more obvious at times? Though I can't imagine its much of an improvement in the PS3 rev.
BTW - what's with the bloom for the neon signs in the PS3 rev?
a Master Ninja
Member
That's a fucking impressive comparison.Onix said:
a Master Ninja said:
Yep.
Note, there are more linked towards the bottom of the page, they just aren't thumbnailed.
The first set of linked ones show off where the extra blur actually helps. The highlighs in the water on the 360 rev are pretty pixelated, and look more natural in the PS3 version.
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/BioShock/BioShockDemo_23_360.png
http://yoda.dip.jp/Game/BioShock/BioShockDemo_23_PS3.png
Of course, there are situations I'd rather have it go the other way.
For people comparing the pics, one thing to consider is that these are using straight output ... the 360 by default has higher contrast and color saturation. So don't consider that aspect when comparing, as that is something you can easily change with calibration if you prefer.
Yes, like others have said the game is still extremely good and you should pick it up if you haven't played the pc/x360 version. However, I'm wanted to pick up the ps3 version if it was on par or better than the 360 version, I'm sure others wanted to do the same. Anyway, this blur is a real offender, check out the 'The Pharaoh's Fortune' sign in this picture just to see how bad it is.
360
PS3
360
PS3
Actually, I think that proves that the majority of textures ARE the same. They only appear blurrier as a result of the blur filter/resolution drop. I'm fairly certain that the textures themselves (in most cases) are exactly the same.chris0701 said:
No, it stutters throughout the demo (for the most part). The framerate is very poor overall and generally sub-30 fps.dhelfric said:
burgerdog said:
Yeah, but how far away is that sign? In reality, it ends up looking far more realistic that there is blur (not to mention, a bit less aliased).
As I said though, the perfect version would be if there was a VERY subtle DOF, that had the 360's foreground smoothly transitioning into the PS3's background.
Loudninja said:
Its relatively consistent, in that you don't see hugely obvious framerate deltas ... but it is in fact noticeably under 30fps.
I'm really concerned about the montage shown at the end of the demo though. If that is indicative of what happens when the game is under more intensive loads ... its going to be pretty frigging messy. Major framerate drops along with massive tearing. Hopefully that isn't the case.
nelsonroyale
Member
yep, seems like the blur...textures look identical there
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
chris0701 said:
You gotta be shitting me:
That must be a mistake, like the PS3 outputting 480p by accident.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Or bilinearOnix said:
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