misleading thread title
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Lots of non-games winning GOTY...
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
On logical level it is, but I still felt a little weird when site I write for named Walking Dead our GOTYOh, well...I will get over it.
The interesting question is - what about genre awards? For example...if we consider Walking Dead to be the best experience of the year, but it still is a pretty bad adventure game..should we name it best adventure, solely because it's best experience or name worse experience becaue it's better adventure game. This might be some solution, putting GOTY to overall experience, while judging genre awards mostly by gameplay, as gameplay is definining element of genre.
Well... when you say it like that, yeah I guess it can be a little odd. GOTY awards and all that aren't really handed out based on mechanics alone though are they?
phosphor112
Banned
Gameplay != game.
It's the inclusion of several different elements that create a game. Gameplay is just ONE of those elements.
No.
I think everybody would be better off if they just stopped using the word "gameplay." It is a bad word and you don't need it.
Chuck Norris
Banned
How so?
Wiktor
Member
Yeah, but when you consider genre awards gameplay should be king, while you can overalook it in favor of other elements when giving out overall GOTY award
To be 100 percent honest with you, I assumed people would know what I meant by "non-games" and not be so literal. I assumed people would know that by "non-game," I was describing a -game- that simply has far less player involvement than something that asks the player to be interacting in ways more constant than the occasional branching story choice, and more varied than pushing forward to cross a desert and fly up an air stream. No big deal, though.
Jonny Rizzo
Member
What is the point in narrowing down an award category which is an all encompassing award for games to begin with. Journey and The Walking Dead are games, they both require you to control a character, perform specific actions and drive them from beginning to end.
The difficulty for said games is very low. You don't need to grind for levels, you don't need to be a "skilled" gamer in the genre, and at no point will you feel that the game is so hard you just want to quit. These games were intended to be finished and give you a specific experience. The barrier to entry and completion of these games is set low for a reason. The developers wanted you to experience their game in a specific way.
Not recognizing these games would be dis-servicing new, unique, and noteworthy games. Limiting GOTY to specific types of games is a BAD idea. GOTY signifies a game that "YOU" enjoyed the most. Setting arbitrary rules on whether a game is deserving or not of the award is asinine.
The difficulty for said games is very low. You don't need to grind for levels, you don't need to be a "skilled" gamer in the genre, and at no point will you feel that the game is so hard you just want to quit. These games were intended to be finished and give you a specific experience. The barrier to entry and completion of these games is set low for a reason. The developers wanted you to experience their game in a specific way.
Not recognizing these games would be dis-servicing new, unique, and noteworthy games. Limiting GOTY to specific types of games is a BAD idea. GOTY signifies a game that "YOU" enjoyed the most. Setting arbitrary rules on whether a game is deserving or not of the award is asinine.
WrenchNinja
Member
Well that's amusing. You accuse TWD and Journey of being a non-game with its light gameplay while calling KIU GotY, a game that's barely playable for some people.
You should probably just stop going down this road and let people choose what they want.
Experience is everything. If a game has amazing game play but carries abundant glitches or terrible presentation... well, those things absolutely factor into one's perception of that game.
Very true.
Zombie James
Banned
I don't even know what this means. Journey doesn't play itself, not to mention that even comparing Journey to Portal is about as apples and oranges as you can get.
In Portal, you couldn't push forward to beat half of the game.
Well said.
Good thing that games, as a medium, are so varied that Journey & Portal are completely different experiences then.
It's just amazing how salty some people are over this years GOTY. Fortunatly we have the official International GOTY Committee that will no doubt inspect whether any of the set in stone rules of GOTY votes have been violated. Though I'm not sure whether the working paper titled "What is Game?" was already published as this will play a crucial part in the following ruling.
toastyToast
Member
It is a game. It's an adventure game that doesn't require you to think, which is the hallmark of the genre. Not one head scratching moment. Unless you consider the decision making the game part and it's greatest quality and I can see a case being made for that. I'm not saying it isn't a game, but propping up a game on its writing and a decision making mechanic which is incidental to that seems odd... I guess.
There are games with absolutely no writing to speak of, how do they even fall under the same umbrella?
Thank god. I was worried we'd need a recount or something.
There's certainly problem solving in TWD, and there's absolutely a great deal of problems given to the player to digest and make decisions based on. Clearly those things resonated with a great deal of people and nobody can tell them they're incorrect for enjoying them so.
They don't. Video games are incredibly varied and don't have much in terms of all-encompassing itinerary.
I'm sorry, but at what point did I hold a knife to someone's genitals and threaten to cut if they didn't agree with me? Please, relax.
And Kid Icarus Uprising has gameplay volume and variety and complexity and depth that is orders of magnitude beyond the games I'm identifying as content- and interaction-lite. It also has strong presentation, proving once again the qualities aren't mutually exclusive.
The ergonomics of the system required adjustment for some, but was no sweat for others, and the fact of the matter is the underlying interaction was there, in spades.
can you elaborate I have no idea what you are saying right now
I'm not "salty." I just find it remarkable that games with minimal or mundane gameplay are getting so far on the strength of their visuals, sound and/or writing.
It's possible because "video game" is a term that includes a wide variety of different experiences. And I can't think of a single reason why that'd be a negative thing.
Its called PR dude
The gaming press cant support a game like Bulletstorm because they know nobody outside this industry is going to take them seriously if they give the oscar of games to a title where there's a monologue about the possibility of killing one's dick.
Not saying the game isnt good, just that journos get more recognition from their peer by defending deep artsy games.
Is like movies: 2/3 of all oscar winners are sometimes unwatchable crap
The gaming press cant support a game like Bulletstorm because they know nobody outside this industry is going to take them seriously if they give the oscar of games to a title where there's a monologue about the possibility of killing one's dick.
Not saying the game isnt good, just that journos get more recognition from their peer by defending deep artsy games.
Is like movies: 2/3 of all oscar winners are sometimes unwatchable crap
Oh you did no such thing, you merely started a thread where you literally ended the OP with
You called two very popular games "non-games" and seemingly wanted a discussion based around how incorrectly appreciated they are. Nobody is accusing you of near castration, so that hyperbole is, again, on you.
Lots of people in the press are also subject to playing a lot of FPS's every year, which certainly didn't help a game like Bulletstorm. Every podcast I listened to that year gave Bulletstorm loads of praise, however.
Plenty of people find the two games you're citing to have game play far from mundane. That should be the end to the remarkable curiosity.
You're probably confusing "volume" for "sound" when I really mean "the amount of player involvement," in this case constantly outmaneuvering enemies and obstacles in flight and on ground with controls that, once acclimated, offer an incredibly tacticle and precise way to play. KIU is part of my Holy Trinity of Action Games alongside Vanquish and Bulletstorm, and what really puts it over the top is the staggering amount of content and sublime presentation that goes along with the constantly engaging mechanics.
WrenchNinja
Member
I'm pretty relaxed, dude. It seems as if you're insulting people's choice of GotY in thread title and opening post by calling them non-games and trying pretty hard to delegitimize them while propping up your favourite games of the year.
This is all meaningless when you aren't able to play the game.
And the underlying interaction in TWD and Journey is there in spades as well.
I was responding to a statement that literally said I was "forcing" my opinion on others, which 1) is impossible, this is a message board, we exchange viewpoints here, that's the point, and 2) is supported by the bit you quoted, since by saying "commence with the flogging" I was acknowleding people like TWD and Journey, and thus -not- forcing my opinion on them -- merely offering up -my- reasons for why I think that they, being mundane or minimal in terms of actual gameplay, don't feel right as Game of the Year. And people, of course, are welcome to offer their viewpoints to the contrary.
I find this to be fairly true with Kid Icarus on 3DS. It was incredibly taxing to actually play the game. Sometimes being ambitious isn't enough when the baseline interactive vocabulary doesn't work for most people.
I was responding to a statement that literally said I was "forcing" my opinion on others, which 1) is impossible, this is a message board, we exchange viewpoints here, that's the point, and 2) is supported by the bit you quoted, since by saying "commence with the flogging" I was acknowleding people like TWD and Journey, and thus -not- forcing my opinion on them -- merely offering up -my- reasons for why I think that they, being mundane or minimal in terms of actual gameplay, don't feel right as Game of the Year. And people, of course, are welcome to offer their viewpoints to the contrary.
Well, I guess you can keep on smiling then because you clearly got your wish with your OP.
I think people are claiming you're "forcing" your opinion because you keep trying to quantify things that are absolutely subjective as if it were fact.
I'm offering my viewpoint. It's a message board.
I played the game just fine. So did many others. And you can watch videos of people with hands of all sizes playing the game just fine. The key is simply cradling part of the system against your palm and fingers -- it settles perfectly naturally when you don't clutch the system for dear life as though it's going to scamper away at any moment.
Can you outline what you do in TWD other than moving to points of interest and picking a choice? Journey could make a longer list, but I wouldn't exactly celebrate what constitutes platforming, stealth or exploration in the game...
Opinions can't be -forced- on people. And must everything be prefaced with "in my opinion?" Of course not. Let's please get back on topic -- the analysis of gameplay (or interaction) in these games and whether the other elements can pick up the slack and carry them so far as the industry's top honors, when there are other games that could be stripped to their mechanics alone and still be fun.
Warm Machine
Member
This year has trended toward story and emotional resonance as the key elements behind the top rated games. I think this is more to do with that concept becoming new, unique and interesting as opposed to games that do what many games before them have done.
It also seemed to be a trend for development to integrate more of these concepts into their games. Even Halo 4 pushes emotion throughout to drive its story.
Traditional GOTY for me comes down to a game that took on an incredible task in terms of scope, and then delivered on that by providing satisfying gameplay, narrative, and looks within it. On those terms Journey would still qualify but other games for consideration would remain Sleeping Dogs and Halo 4.
Journey is very high on my list due to its scope but also it's clever mechanics that take tutorial instructions and direction and present it transparently. It is a triumph of game design.
Purely sucessful gameplay based game of the year would be Trials Evolution. The push pull of the bike with the various modes and content creation made for a near perfect fun and addictive game. I haven't seen it on anyone's lists. I'm guessing because it didn't have a story and was purely a mechanical exercise.
In the past I would have argued that Geometry Wars 2: Retro Evolved should have been game of the year due to its perfect mechanics and technical genius. But no story and unconventional visuals took it out of the running for a lot of people. Just like a really amazing strategy game like Anno or Sim City which would never take game of the year no matter how good it's mechanics if it didn't have a narrative layer.
One thing that surprises me with TWD is that it looks so incredibly poor visually. For a game that is built around cinematics and story telling the animation and photography quality is sub par. Still, something about the choices being made by the player and their effect on the narrative is having a huge impact on people.
It also seemed to be a trend for development to integrate more of these concepts into their games. Even Halo 4 pushes emotion throughout to drive its story.
Traditional GOTY for me comes down to a game that took on an incredible task in terms of scope, and then delivered on that by providing satisfying gameplay, narrative, and looks within it. On those terms Journey would still qualify but other games for consideration would remain Sleeping Dogs and Halo 4.
Journey is very high on my list due to its scope but also it's clever mechanics that take tutorial instructions and direction and present it transparently. It is a triumph of game design.
Purely sucessful gameplay based game of the year would be Trials Evolution. The push pull of the bike with the various modes and content creation made for a near perfect fun and addictive game. I haven't seen it on anyone's lists. I'm guessing because it didn't have a story and was purely a mechanical exercise.
In the past I would have argued that Geometry Wars 2: Retro Evolved should have been game of the year due to its perfect mechanics and technical genius. But no story and unconventional visuals took it out of the running for a lot of people. Just like a really amazing strategy game like Anno or Sim City which would never take game of the year no matter how good it's mechanics if it didn't have a narrative layer.
One thing that surprises me with TWD is that it looks so incredibly poor visually. For a game that is built around cinematics and story telling the animation and photography quality is sub par. Still, something about the choices being made by the player and their effect on the narrative is having a huge impact on people.
Wow. Use intensity 1, you still get the fantastic music and the top tier writing and the game almost plays for itself. I wasn't able to play TWD yet, it crashes on my computer, so it's meaningless too?
You can make that reductive argument about any game. What do you do in Call of Duty other than shoot enemies in kill rooms? What do you do in Pac Man other than gather points and avoid ghosts?
"Picking a choice" means many things in a game like The Walking Dead. Choices, in general, are a broad, broad subject.
Zombie James
Banned
This is like Heavy Rain all over again. Do adventure games have to turn into shooters just to get acknowledged as games?
Hm, most of the critizising comments do feel like they have a very negative underlying tone and Journey and TWD are unacceptable as GOTY just out of principle. I can understand critic on gameplay elements but going through a checklist to decide whether these are eligable for GOTY or being called games at all is too narrow minded imo.
Well, never mind the fact the choices made in TWD have no actual impact -- the fact is that your input is minimal to the point you might as well be turning the page on a book. Again, a perfectly enjoyable experience, and a game in the sense that there's some interaction. But it's so minimal.
Incendiary
Banned
I haven't played Journey, but I feel like you're seriously oversimplifying Walking Dead's gameplay in this. Half of the game is making conversation and decisions as you're talking to people, which is what a lot of people love about the first Mass Effect. There are also puzzles and action sequences where you have to have reflexes and be paying attention, and several sequences where you have to aim your gun and fire just like any other shooter. I would strongly disagree with your characterization of the game in the first place.
Isn't it?
I'm not sure... non-games are tricky games to play.
Referring to Journey as a "time waster" was my first hint.
My choices in The Walking Dead irrefutably impacted me and my experience in playing the game.
What part of that isn't getting through to you?
Ironically, I really enjoy this aspect of TWD (and the first Mass Effect, for that matter). But I'm able to separate my appreciation/enjoyment of such elements from my evaluation of the actual gameplay. And I'm just saying, for me, gameplay is the deciding factor in Game of the Year.
What do you mean by gameplay?
Macho Madness
Member
Yeah, that's a pretty dumb word that everyone should stop using.
All games are time-wasters. It's a cute expression that applies to all games, and that I used since I didn't want to call Journey a great game when I feel it's not.
I never said you weren't affected by it. Only that your actions don't have meaningful effect on what happens in the game. In other words, you affect it as much as a choose-your-own-adventure storybook. The interaction is that limited in potential. I'm not questioning whether it still affected you emotionally. I have, and remain to focus, on the gameplay.
The part of the game you play...?
EDIT: To clarify further, the part that is not purely graphics, music, dialogue, etc.
Well maybe you should start handing out your own GOTY awards, just like all the game reviewers are doing based on what's the deciding factor for them. It's all subjective.